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Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (2)

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11822

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It doesn't sound like Paul said to throw out the law in Romans 13:9


Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
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So why can you not see the same with the 10? Lies murder stealing etc. that you claim is unholy for a christian is of the ten. So why is the law that makes them unholy abolished and the remain unholy? That like say the law of gravity is no more but things still fall to the ground.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth,
The 10 are only a portion of the law. Can't pick and choose which part of the law you keep and which part you don't. Are you going to ever answer about where the law tells us what we are to do instead of not do to act in love?
 
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Romans 13:9 If there be any other commandment, it be breifly comprehended in this saying:Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


Here Paul is teaching us how to comprehend the law. If the law is breifly comprehended in love, and we throw the law out, don't we also throw out love?
 
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sheina

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O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth,
Why not quote that verse in context along with verse 2 and 3?

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What was this "truth"? The answer is in verse 3..."having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect in the flesh?" This is what those who attempt to return to the Mosaic law are doing in order to perfect their salvation
 
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sheina

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Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments?


It is MUST for Christ believers.
Why is a MUST for Christians? Does keeping the commandments perfect our salvation?

BTW, the commandments aren't just limited to the 10 commandments...and the 10 commandments are not just limited to the 4th commandment. There are 613 commandments....are you saying that all Christians MUST keep them all? Do you keep them all?
 
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Arthur57

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Why is a MUST for Christians? Does keeping the commandments perfect our salvation?

BTW, the commandments aren't just limited to the 10 commandments...and the 10 commandments are not just limited to the 4th commandment. There are 613 commandments....are you saying that all Christians MUST keep them all? Do you keep them all?

I agree that there are 613 commandments, which consist of: Civil law, ceremonial law and moral law.

What is classified as law as the shadow of things to come, the ceremonial laws, has been nailed to the cross, because the shadow has met its body in Christ. But the moral law, which to discern sin (Romans 7:7), is an everlasting law.

Remember when Jesus answered to a man asking what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus brought his attention to the Ten Cs (Mark 10:17-19), he said: Keep the commandments. Jesus said the same thing to his disciples: “If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

Clearly Jesus didn't say keep my ceremonial law, for he knew it will comes to an end on his cross. But he said keep the Ten cs.

James said the same thing. That Christians should kept the law of liberty, which is the law of love (James 1:22-2:12), a summary of the 10 Cs (Matthew 22:36-40). Breaking one of it, you break the whole law, and sinned.

Paul said the same thing. Romans 2:13 - for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. And of course what he meant is the law that discern sin, the Ten Cs. a law that is holy, just and good.

Solomon said the same thing. Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Fear God and keep His commandments,

Keeping the law is a proof of your faith in Christ, it is fruit of the Spirit, because only the Spirit could fulfill the righteous demands of the law in us (Romans 8:4). But it is not automatic, it works only when you accept the existence and jurisdiction of this law over you.

And since all men would be judge by this great law of God at the Day of Judgment, using the 10 Cs as the standard of righteousness, your righteousness in keeping the law surely must pass it's judgment, otherwise you are not worthy and come under the law's condemnation, with wage of sin is death.

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But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:3.
 
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sheina

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I agree that there are 613 commandments, which consist of: Civil law, ceremonial law and moral law.
The law in its entirety (ceremonial, civil, and moral) is the Torah and this is THE law which James said if you offend in just one point (of the 613 commandments), you are guilty of ALL. So there is NO division of the law, and if you don't obey ALL, you broke ALL!
What is classified as law as the shadow of things to come, the ceremonial laws, has been nailed to the cross, because the shadow has met its body in Christ. But the moral law, which to discern sin (Romans 7:7), is an everlasting law.
The entirety of the law was nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14), not just the parts that you believe are not applicable to you.
Remember when Jesus answered to a man asking what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus brought his attention to the Ten Cs (Mark 10:17-19), he said: Keep the commandments. Jesus said the same thing to his disciples: “If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.
The passage in Mark 10 states in verse 20: "And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth." That was NOT what the young man needed to inherit eternal because he went away sad "And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions."

The "commandments" in John 14:15 were NOT the Torah/Mosaic Law (the 613 commandments).
Clearly Jesus didn't say keep my ceremonial law, for he knew it will comes to an end on his cross. But he said keep the Ten cs.
Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, we will not enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The law in its entirety came to an end at the cross.
James said the same thing. That Christians should kept the law of liberty, which is the law of love (James 1:22-2:12), a summary of the 10 Cs (Matthew 22:36-40). Breaking one of it, you break the whole law, and sinned.
The law of liberty is not the Torah/Mosaic Law. The law of liberty are the teachings of the New Testament regarding the Christian life. It is called "the law of liberty" because while the instruction of the New Testament is a requirement God places before His people, it is a law of liberty because we obey God out of gratitude for His grace.
Paul said the same thing. Romans 2:13 - for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. And of course what he meant is the law that discern sin, the Ten Cs. a law that is holy, just and good.

Solomon said the same thing. Ecclesiastes 12:13 - Fear God and keep His commandments,

You have totally pulled those verses out of context. You need to rightly divide the Word and learn what the "commandments" are in context of the verses that come before and the verses which come after what you quote. Scripture interprets scripture.
Keeping the law is a proof of your faith in Christ, it is fruit of the Spirit, because only the Spirit could fulfill the righteous demands of the law in us (Romans 8:4). But it is not automatic, it works only when you accept the existence and jurisdiction of this law over you.
Keeping the law is NOT proof of your faith in Christ...and it is NOT the fruit of the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit produces the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-24).
And since all men would be judge by this great law of God at the Day of Judgment, using the 10 Cs as the standard of righteousness, your righteousness in keeping the law surely must pass it's judgment, otherwise you are not worthy and come under the law's condemnation, with wage of sin is death.
The 10 commandments is NOT the rule for the Christian. Christ is the rule. We are to put on the Lord Jesus Christ, not the 10 commandments.

Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
------------------
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:3.
Nice verse....but are you implying that "seeking God's kingdom means to "keep the Torah/Mosaic Law"?

I repeat...if you are NOT keeping the law (Torah/Mosaic Law--613 commandments) in its entirety, you are guilty of breaking the entire law (ceremonial, civil and moral). Also if you are striving to "perfect" your salvation by keeping the law, you are still in bondage to it and you put yourself under its curse (Galatians 3:10-12)

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
 
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Elder 111

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The flesh has never put us under the law. The Apostles taught that the law was given by God for one main reason: to lead men to Christ. It does this by showing the need for salvation through revealing sin, and by pointing the way of salvation through types and prophecies. Once the law has done its work of bringing a man to the Savior, it has no more work to do for that man. The justified man has his all in Christ. The believer is forever freed from any condemnation of the law, since he has been made perfect in Christ, identified positionally with Jesus in His death, burial, and resurrection. The believer has been forever removed from the realm of sin and death because God has put away his sin and declared him righteous. The law is not the believer's rule of life. The believer has a much higher calling-to put on Christ Jesus and to follow the Spirit of God. The New Testament does not point back to the law as the believer's path of obedience-although the basic underlying moral principles of the law are eternal. The law, including the Ten Commandments "written and graven in stone," was a "ministration of death" which has been abolished in Christ.
So why is it on the heart?
 
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Elder 111

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The 10 are only a portion of the law. Can't pick and choose which part of the law you keep and which part you don't. Are you going to ever answer about where the law tells us what we are to do instead of not do to act in love?
I showed you that the same love you keep bring existed with the same 10 commandments in the OC. You pick out and leave the ten and tell me that you can not pick and choose. We are standing before God.
 
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Elder 111

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Why not quote that verse in context along with verse 2 and 3?

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Galatians 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What was this "truth"? The answer is in verse 3..."having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect in the flesh?" This is what those who attempt to return to the Mosaic law are doing in order to perfect their salvation
When is the ten commandments the flesh and salvation by works?To not tell lies salvation by works? not stealing is salvation by works? You would just refuse to accept the flaw in the argument. It has to do with the circumcision and the like and not the ten commandments.
 
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Elder 111

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Why is a MUST for Christians? Does keeping the commandments perfect our salvation?

BTW, the commandments aren't just limited to the 10 commandments...and the 10 commandments are not just limited to the 4th commandment. There are 613 commandments....are you saying that all Christians MUST keep them all? Do you keep them all?
That is the problem you go back to 613. God did not give those on tables of stone and repeated that they will be written on our heart. The bible does not teach keeping them. There are not 613 either for there are several repetitions in there. There is no seperate list nor any commandments from Genesis to Revelation about keeping 613 laws. Where does it say the we need to keep them all? The promotion of such is a great sin against God.
 
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Arthur57

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The law in its entirety (ceremonial, civil, and moral) is the Torah and this is THE law which James said if you offend in just one point (of the 613 commandments), you are guilty of ALL. So there is NO division of the law, and if you don't obey ALL, you broke ALL!

This is not what the Scripture said. Sorry. Compare mine with the bible.

The entirety of the law was nailed to the cross (Colossians 2:14), not just the parts that you believe are not applicable to you.

Again is not what the Scripture said. Col. 2:14 said about our record of sin, our debt to the law, for we were transgressor of the law. And Christ had paid for that debt, dying for us.

The passage in Mark 10 states in verse 20: "And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth." That was NOT what the young man needed to inherit eternal because he went away sad "And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions."

Yes, the love for self is to great for the man, he wont follow Jesus advice, for although he did keep the 10 Cs that Jesus said, but he didn't fulfill the demand of the law by the spirit, just the letter. This is only a proof that what Jesus wants from his believer is to keep the 10 Cs and not the ceremonial law.

The "commandments" in John 14:15 were NOT the Torah/Mosaic Law (the 613 commandments).

Yes, you are right. it was not. It is the Ten Commandments.

Jesus said that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, we will not enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The law in its entirety came to an end at the cross.

Your view will stand against dozens of verses in the NT alone.

It is a completely wrong thinking that because the Pharisees could only keep the letter of the law but failed to fulfill the righteous demands of the law that Christ must nail his holy law to his cross in order his believers would be released from the law's keeping obligation that would brought them only to condemnation.

Did you know that He gave us the power to keep the law perfectly and fulfill it demands? Read Romans 8:3, 4.

The law of liberty is not the Torah/Mosaic Law. The law of liberty are the teachings of the New Testament regarding the Christian life. It is called "the law of liberty" because while the instruction of the New Testament is a requirement God places before His people, it is a law of liberty because we obey God out of gratitude for His grace.

Sorry, I disagree. It doesn't fit to the teaching of James.

You have totally pulled those verses out of context. You need to rightly divide the Word and learn what the "commandments" are in context of the verses that come before and the verses which come after what you quote. Scripture interprets scripture.

Not at all!. It is nicely in context and fit properly to the Scripture.

Keeping the law is NOT proof of your faith in Christ...and it is NOT the fruit of the Spirit. Walking in the Spirit produces the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-24).

Keeping the law perfectly and fulfill its holy righteous demands is certainly fruit of the Spirit, because it fits to Romans 8:4. and some other text. There are only two way of life. Walking in the Spirit and living for the flesh, so, I knew that fulfilling the law demands is not of the flesh.

The 10 commandments is NOT the rule for the Christian. Christ is the rule. We are to put on the Lord Jesus Christ, not the 10 commandments.
Romans 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Sorry, I disagree. Christ is our Savior and Lord, not the rule or the law. He is the law maker and giver, and the law is the description of his character, but it is not him self. When he died at the cross the law of Ten Cs didn't die with him except the ceremonial law. That's why, this 10 cs was taught to us by Paul, James after his ascension to heaven.

Putting Jesus on in our hearts and minds doesn't mean overruling the demands of the law, or annulling it. Far of it. Putting Jesus Christ is an act of faith, and what did Paul said? Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31.

Clear? If it is not annulling the law, it means the jurisdiction of the law over Christ believers remains, and the obligation to keep it remains and the damnation remains for whoever transgressed the law.And Paul clarify, not the 613 law we will keep, but only the Ten, for the ceremonial law was nailed to the cross. otherwise Christ believers must do the ritual again.

Nice verse....but are you implying that "seeking God's kingdom means to "keep the Torah/Mosaic Law"?

No! It is for those who seek with their heart the righteous teaching of the Scripture, to be open minded and willing to accept whatever righteousness is being presented here, even it stands against their believe and faith for many years. So be with you!

I repeat...if you are NOT keeping the law (Torah/Mosaic Law--613 commandments) in its entirety, you are guilty of breaking the entire law (ceremonial, civil and moral). Also if you are striving to "perfect" your salvation by keeping the law, you are still in bondage to it and you put yourself under its curse (Galatians 3:10-12)

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Paul didn't say that. Compare with mine and the Scripture.

Paul said to the Galatians believers, how foolish they were for leaving the teaching of righteousness by faith as according Paul's teaching to them years ago, and come back again to the beggary elements of the world, to attain righteousness by works of the law, just because some false brothers of the Jews came and taught them so. he said, even an angel from heaven taught them, it must be cursed.

His reasoning is clear, the man who does them shall live by them; a repetition of Romans 2:13 - for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified. Which clearly said, that unless the righteousness of a man passed the law's judgment by keeping it perfectly and fulfill it demands, no one will be justified for living eternally. But further on he said that this righteousness could not be obtained by our own works, only through Christ, by His Spirit (Romans 8:4). without Me you can do nothing. John 15:5.

Neglecting Jesus and held our own strength to keep the law for righteousness only brought us under condemnation of the law. because the law is holy, just and good, and we are sinful flesh, never could the flesh fulfill the law demands, how good and hard you try (Romans 8:5-8). Only by the Spirit through faith in the grace of God you might be success (Titus 2: 11-14; Romans 8:4; Galatians 5:18)

That is what Paul said to the Galatians. Never about annulling the 10 Cs.

==============================
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:3.
 
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IreneAdler

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The Text used the word flesh. Should we understand that flesh can be interchange with the ten commandments (or even the law). That is what we a re discussing.
that's what I was disagreeing with. ^_^ (I knew what you meant - blonde... not totally ditzy)
 
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I showed you that the same love you keep bring existed with the same 10 commandments in the OC. You pick out and leave the ten and tell me that you can not pick and choose. We are standing before God.
And what does God see? I think He see Jesus. That isn't a declaration that I'm Jesus. What counts? I think it is if one's name appears in the Book of Life. John 5:24 states that a Christian has already passed from death (condemnation) to life.
 
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If Not For Grace

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Why worry about doing what no one can?
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When is the ten commandments the flesh and salvation by works?To not tell lies salvation by works? not stealing is salvation by works? You would just refuse to accept the flaw in the argument. It has to do with the circumcision and the like and not the ten commandments.
Paul calls the law the flesh in Romans as well as Galatians. Gal 5 is very explicit in naming the works of the flesh which also go by the name of sin (violation).

All actions of men are caled works. Now are they works of the law or works of faith known as and called fruit opposed to works. Fruit is involuntary and works are to achieve a desired goal. Salvation bears fruit not works.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no boasting about bearing fruit. Those that do are boasting about their works and not their fruit.

I'm talking about concepts here, so don't get lost on the words.
 
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That is the problem you go back to 613. God did not give those on tables of stone and repeated that they will be written on our heart. The bible does not teach keeping them. There are not 613 either for there are several repetitions in there. There is no seperate list nor any commandments from Genesis to Revelation about keeping 613 laws. Where does it say the we need to keep them all? The promotion of such is a great sin against God.
Excellent entertainment.
 
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