Do you agree that christians should keep the 10 Commandments? (2)

[IreneAdler]

um, I don't agree. Someone totally devoid of God can spread the gospel (it's a story... after all). Walking in the spirit is more. It's about existing in that place where you allow God to work in/through you (even when not spreading the actual gospel story itself)

 

[Isolation]

um, I don't agree. Someone totally devoid of God can spread the gospel (it's a story... after all). Walking in the spirit is more. It's about existing in that place where you allow God to work in/through you (even when not spreading the actual gospel story itself)

I disagree as well, I do not think it is possible to spread the gospel without being saved

 

[11822]

All walking in the Spirit means is to be spreading the gospel...

Walking in the Spirit means loving God and neighbor, we cannot walk in the spirit by breaking the law because that would be works of the flesh.
If the law is summed up by loving our neighbor, we establish the law so we will love our neighbor. If we break 9 of the 10 Cs we are walking according to the flesh.

 

[11822]

If we murder, steal, commit adultery, use gods name in vein, covet, or bear false witness we're not walking in the Spirit but the flesh. Love does no ill will toward its neighbor, love does not break the law, we do.

 

[Isolation]

well, do you practice these things?

 

[11822]

well, do you practice these things?

Me? Do i practice the 10 Cs? 9 of them i do. Like i said, if i ignored them and didn't practice them i would be doing works of the flesh. Do i also need Grace? you bet.

 

[11822]

Its the man who justifies himself by the law that is misusing the law. The man who obeys the law with honesty sees a need for mercy and therefore shows mercy himself, thereby fullfilling the law.

 

[Arthur57]

Why would I need the 10 if I am walking by the Spirit? Please explain

I want to comment on this statement:
Why would I need the 10 Cs if I am walking by the Spirit? Please explain

This is a question that I have seen in so many brothers of Christ in this forum and others.
We can think of everything to suit our judgment, but what the bible said is the truth.

Romans 8:3,4.
3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh. 4.That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

What the Law could not do is JUSTIFYING US FOR OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS. What the Law can only do is CONDEMNING US FOR OUR SINS.

Why? Because,

Romans 7:14 - For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Romans 8:7 - Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.

And since all men has sinned and fall short of the glory of God, the whole world came under the law’s condemnation (Romans 3:9-12, 19, 23).

Only if we live by the Spirit, walk by the Spirit, the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us. And only “if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law (condemnation) – Galatians 5:18.

So, when now by faith we walk after the Spirit, do we still need the Ten Cs or not?

This question has been answered above, that only by walking after the Spirit the righteousness of the law of the might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the lust of the flesh. Otherwise, the law could only condemn us for our sins.

What is the righteousness of the law? LOVE.

Described in two moral obligation – love God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind, and love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:37-39).

A summary of engraved commandments on stone tablets by God’s own finger, and by doing what is written there, a man has fulfilled the legal aspect of the law and when it was done under the leading of the Spirit by faith, the spiritual aspect has been fulfilled too. These are the righteous demands of the law: Doing the legal aspect and fulfilling the spiritual demand. When you did it, you have the righteousness of the law fulfilled in you. And only those who walk after the Spirit can have this perfect righteousness.

This where the young man in Matthew 19:16-22 failed. He had done the legal aspect but failed to fulfill the spiritual demand, because he loved his possessions more.

How can a believer claim that he loves God, that he walks after the Spirit, if he bows and worships a golden calf, like the Israeli before? How can a believer claim that he walks after the Spirit, if he commits adultery? And the list goes on – how can a believer claim that he has faith in Christ, that he walks after the Spirit, if only the works of the flesh is manifested? How can a believer claim that he loves God that he walks after the Spirit, when he trampled on God’s holy Sabbath, rejecting and denying the 4th commandment?

So, again, when now by faith we walk after the Spirit, do we still need the Ten Cs or not?

The answer is obvious! Yes! Because the law’s jurisdiction is still above Christ’ believers head and to fulfill its righteousness is an obligation. Therefore we understood what Christ said: If you love me, keep my commandments. John 14:15.

Walking after the Spirit is an act of faith, and what Paul said: Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law. Romans 3:31.

We establish the law! Is it by nailing it to the cross? Is it by keeping another law, the law of man? The tradition of man? No! It is by doing what the law demands, as to the letter and fulfills the spiritual demand.

========================
But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. Matthew 6:33.

 

[Elder 111]

that's what I was disagreeing with. (I knew what you meant - blonde... not totally ditzy)

So why con you not agree?

 

[Elder 111]

Paul calls the law the flesh in Romans as well as Galatians. Gal 5 is very explicit in naming the works of the flesh which also go by the name of sin (violation).

All actions of men are caled works. Now are they works of the law or works of faith known as and called fruit opposed to works. Fruit is involuntary and works are to achieve a desired goal. Salvation bears fruit not works.

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

There is no boasting about bearing fruit. Those that do are boasting about their works and not their fruit.

I'm talking about concepts here, so don't get lost on the words.

You know I will get lost. Try again. Because while sin is the works of the flesh, it certainly is not the law. A violation of the law is just that. A violation of the law can not be the law! Sin can not be the law!! Not stealing is the same as stealing? Every single attempt is being made to be rid of the 10 commandments. Why? Even when they sound completely silly and even blasphemous.

 

[Elder 111]

Why would I need the 10 if I am walking by the Spirit? Please explain

If you are walking by the Spirit you should be observing the 10. You can not be filled by the Holy Spirit and steal, of the 10, lie, of the 10, you will serve God only, of the ten. What ever characteristics there are of the Spirit the 10 concurs with. Why then leave it out? It has nothing to do with working for salvation. When you go through the ten commandments what is it in there that is unholy? What is in there that the Spirit will not have?

 

[Elder 111]

um, I don't agree. Someone totally devoid of God can spread the gospel (it's a story... after all). Walking in the spirit is more. It's about existing in that place where you allow God to work in/through you (even when not spreading the actual gospel story itself)

I can agree with you. Tell me then when you compare the fruit of the Spirit directly with the ten commandments, do you see conflict?

 

[Elder 111]

Me? Do i practice the 10 Cs? 9 of them i do. Like i said, if i ignored them and didn't practice them i would be doing works of the flesh. Do i also need Grace? you bet.

Grace may not be enough for you. Why not keep all ten? It is hard to see grace covering willful refusal to keep all. It will cover failed attempts.

 

[MamaZ]

If you are walking by the Spirit you should be observing the 10. You can not be filled by the Holy Spirit and steal, of the 10, lie, of the 10, you will serve God only, of the ten. What ever characteristics there are of the Spirit the 10 concurs with. Why then leave it out? It has nothing to do with working for salvation. When you go through the ten commandments what is it in there that is unholy? What is in there that the Spirit will not have?

If I am walking in the Spirit I don't even have consideration of not loving my neighbor nor God. So where does the 10 come in for me? For we read in scripture the fruit of the Spirit and against such is no law.

 

[IreneAdler]

So why con you not agree?

I have never in my life seen that correlation made, nor even found any reason to suppose it, nor reading found a scriptural reason to think it

 

[IreneAdler]

I can agree with you. Tell me then when you compare the fruit of the Spirit directly with the ten commandments, do you see conflict?

nope, but I never said I did
I'm one of those strange people who thinks we are still under the law, but because it is in us and not just on paper (so I agree with everyone)

 

[from scratch]

You know I will get lost. Try again. Because while sin is the works of the flesh, it certainly is not the law. A violation of the law is just that. A violation of the law can not be the law! Sin can not be the law!! Not stealing is the same as stealing? Every single attempt is being made to be rid of the 10 commandments. Why? Even when they sound completely silly and even blasphemous.

What is Paul talking about when he says the law of sin and death - Rom 8:2? In v 1 Paul is making the same comparison as in Gal 5:18. In v 3 he is specifically talking about the law as in the Torah and 10 Cs. He just said in 7:6 we're delivered from the law. Didn't Paul also say that the law brings death? Please read chapter 7 starting at about v 8.

Yes I agree that sin isn't the law. Sin is more than violation of the law. Please read what hamartia translated sin is from a lexicon. Sin was before the law.

 

[from scratch]

You know I will get lost. Try again. Because while sin is the works of the flesh, it certainly is not the law. A violation of the law is just that. A violation of the law can not be the law! Sin can not be the law!! Not stealing is the same as stealing? Every single attempt is being made to be rid of the 10 commandments. Why? Even when they sound completely silly and even blasphemous.

I made this comment on another thread: It isn't that the sabbath has been done away as Saturday is still with us and thare are still 7 days in our week. The real issue is obilgation to the sabbath. And under the NC the Christian isn't obligated. This goes for both Jew and Gentile. There is no requirement to not keep/observe it either. Paul says to let no one condemn for either way.

 

[from scratch]

If you are walking by the Spirit you should be observing the 10. You can not be filled by the Holy Spirit and steal, of the 10, lie, of the 10, you will serve God only, of the ten. What ever characteristics there are of the Spirit the 10 concurs with. Why then leave it out? It has nothing to do with working for salvation. When you go through the ten commandments what is it in there that is unholy? What is in there that the Spirit will not have?

Incidence isn't obedience ever!!

 

[from scratch]

I can agree with you. Tell me then when you compare the fruit of the Spirit directly with the ten commandments, do you see conflict?

I don't see a comparison or an agreement with the 10 Cs either.