Why are atheists considered to be so dishonest?

[JGG]

I only know what information you have offered. You claim to be an atheist, which means you do not believe any gods exist. This is the information I based my post on.

Not believing gods exist is not a worldview. A worldview involves ethics, values, as well as social, political, and existential philosophical views. For some of us, belief or non-belief is just a small part of our worldview. When you claim to know my worldview you claim to know all of the things listed above about me, simply based on knowing I'm an atheist.

Here's the joke of it: If you're speaking simply on belief in God, your criticism is that we have no evidence to support our lack of belief. But that's entirely the point: Lack of belief does not require evidence.

 

[razeontherock]

Not believing gods exist is not a worldview.

I disagree with that. I find atheism forces other things into one's worldview.

 

[godisreal36]

Something i know about. Before i begin let me say that all people are dishonest. No one is blameless. I myself considered atheists dishonest and have said so and i was wrong. I can't say how many are dishonest so for me to say all or many are dishonest wouldn't necessarily be true. Now the reason i think some are dishonest is because i have talked to quite a few of them and think they would try anything to win the argument including lying. in other areas i cant say if they are dishonest. No offense intended because I'm guilty also. However to not believe in god when most of the world does is to think yourself smarter than most people, ever. It takes more "faith" to not believe in god than to believe in him. I too am guilty, i do not judge, I only bring a light into a dark room. Look around you friends. Doesn't creation look like it was designed? Man made Global warming was a cruel lie. Darwin was a sexist Neanderthal, if he was alive today i think he wouldn't believe his own theory. Something created all this. If it wasn't god who was it? And how about this, what in all creation came first? Something was the beginning and yet something had to also not have a beginning. What could not have a beginning except God? It takes more faith to believe in atheism than God. Seriously God is real. He will prove it to you if you ask him to.

 

[JGG]

I disagree with that. I find atheism forces other things into one's worldview.

Everything forces something into one's worldview, however it is not in itself a worldview. For instance, my job, my geographical location, my associates, my birthdate, my political affiliation, my parents, my hometown, my height, these all force something into my worldview, but none of them are a worldview on their own. What I'm saying is that one cannot assume to know an atheist's worldview, anymore than one can assume to know a taxidermist's worldview. Lots of things, probably all things, inform our worldview, not just our position on God. To judge me based on my lack of belief in God is simple prejudice.

Here's my challenge: If you assume to know my worldview, what is the psychological school of thought of an atheist (am I a Freudian, behaviourist, cognitivist, existentialist, Gestaltist, structuralist, etc, etc, etc)? I am a psychologist by trade, an my psychological school of thought necessarily informs much of my worldview. Show your work.

 

[JGG]

Something i know about. Before i begin let me say that all people are dishonest. No one is blameless. I myself considered atheists dishonest and have said so and i was wrong. I can't say how many are dishonest so for me to say all or many are dishonest wouldn't necessarily be true. Now the reason i think some are dishonest is because i have talked to quite a few of them and think they would try anything to win the argument including lying. in other areas i cant say if they are dishonest. No offense intended because I'm guilty also.

However to not believe in god when most of the world does is to think yourself smarter than most people, ever.

At one point in time most of the world thought that the entirety of existence was on the Earth. Most people were wrong. At one point in time most people thought the sun rotated around the Earth. Most people were wrong. At one point in time most people thought the Earth was the centre of the universe. Most people were wrong. My point is that just because most people believe something, does not necessarily make it true. Popular belief is merely popular, it isn't necessarily right. If we assume we already know everything then we won't learn anything.

It's not that I believe myself to be smarter than most people. Frankly, it should be obvious that intelligence and belief are somewhat unrelated (one need not be a genius to believe, nor are geniuses necessarily unbelievers). I just assume that I must be, for some reason, more skeptical of what people tell me than most people. Everyone is skeptical of things, I just think I'm more consistent.

However, knowing what I know about the various types of intelligence, how we exercise intelligence, and the law of averages, I can humbly say, that I am almost assuredly smarter than at least 50% of the population. That is to say that I am probably smarter than most people. I fail to see why that should be considered some sort of character flaw, why that would somehow make me dishonest, or why my being intelligent necessarily makes your position the right one. Realistically speaking, almost half of the people who post on Christianforums are necessarily smarter than most of the people who post on Christianforums.

And lastly, while most people may believe in "God," there is no agreement on what God is. There is no common definition. In fact, there is no universally approach to the limits of what "God" is. Some concepts are so far removed from each other, that it is pointless to even agree to call all of them "God." Frankly, there are more people who don't believe Jesus to be the son of God, than people who do.

It takes more "faith" to not believe in god than to believe in him.

It takes faith not to believe something? That contradicts the very concept of faith. How would that actually work?

I too am guilty, i do not judge, I only bring a light into a dark room. Look around you friends. Doesn't creation look like it was designed?

Not really. We have an appendix that we don't actually use for anything, but commonly becomes infected and can quickly kill us. We share our food passage with our air passage which, relatively speaking, frequently leads to death by choking. Our bodies are questionably fragile, and prone to bacteria, viruses, and things like cancer (all of which were uselessly introduced to our environment), as well as heart, kidney, and liver disease, all of which can cause premature death. Our eyes are frequently misconstructed (nearsightedness/farsightedness/colour-blindness). Our sound perception is absurdly limited. And although the human brain is the most incredible piece of "machinery" we have ever seen, it could still be far more effecient than it is. And that's just the human body! If creation was designed, the creator could have done a much better job. Even in our limited experience, all of us can see ways in which, given the unlimited power and knowledge of a perfect creator, we could probably have improved upon creation. I guess ultimately I just don't see what you see.

Man made Global warming was a cruel lie.

That might very well be true. How is that pertinent? Oh, did you assume that because I'm an atheist I must also be an environmental nut?

Darwin was a sexist Neanderthal, if he was alive today i think he wouldn't believe his own theory.

Darwin was not only sexist, he was also racist. Most upper-class British people at the time were. He was not a neanderthal though, that's pretty evident. Whether he would believe his theory today is certainly not clear, but I don't see any reason why anyone would assume that he wouldn't. However, I don't really see how that's pertinent either. Oh wait, did you assume that because I'm an atheist I must also revere Charles Darwin as the pinnacle of humanity?

Something created all this. If it wasn't god who was it?

Firstly, why assume it was a "who?" Maybe it was a "what."

And how about this, what in all creation came first? Something was the beginning and yet something had to also not have a beginning. What could not have a beginning except God?

An infinite number of possibilities we cannot imagine, or comprehend? In the years before Robert Koch introduced germ theory, it was pretty difficult for people to imagine that organisms far smaller than we could see were the cause of illness and disease. Before that, people defaulted on the idea that illness was the result of divine punishment, or curses because they lacked the knowledge or imagination to consider other possibilities. Had Koch, and everyone who followed him all simply accepted that illnesses were caused by magic, we wouldn't have modern medicine.

What's important is that I am not actually required to answer any of these questions to not believe in God. I can simply say "I don't know."

It takes more faith to believe in atheism than God. Seriously God is real. He will prove it to you if you ask him to.

Firstly, one does not "believe in" atheism. It is a philosophical position, not a system of belief. It actually doesn't require any faith. You might even say it requires no faith.

Secondly, I did ask God to prove His existence to me. Several times. Obviously, He did not. Hence, I no longer have faith, and it would seem justifiably so by your proposition.

Lastly, I will point out that I'm sure most Christians will tell me that God will not prove His existence, nor even provide evidence of it, as that would undermine "faith." I'm curious as to whether you think I should believe you or them.

 

[godisreal36]

An atheist is someone that doesn't believe in a God. At least that's what i think it means. You are right, depending on individual circumstances who can really say why someone thinks a certain way. I don't know everything. But i do know that there are no atheists in foxholes. When we are about to die, we all believe in him then. That's what i believe.

 

[JGG]

An atheist is someone that doesn't believe in a God. At least that's what i think it means. You are right, depending on individual circumstances who can really say why someone thinks a certain way. I don't know everything. But i do know that there are no atheists in foxholes. When we are about to die, we all believe in him then. That's what i believe.

Firstly, what does this have to do with anything?

Secondly, I know at least one atheist who was certain she was going to die, and is still an atheist. She was simply prepared for non-existence. I also know an Iraq vet, who served in Iraq, and was literally an atheist in a foxhole. He's still an atheist by the way.

Lastly, we're not talking about why atheists think what they do, but the vast array of different ideas atheists have, both regarding deities, and beyond. I promise that you cannot even begin to guess what's going on in my head. So don't even pretend that you can.

 

[godisreal36]

OK maybe there are some atheist in foxholes, all i know is if i was in one, i would be praying. God through his son Jesus has shown me the way to love. The world cannot love only hate. I hated atheists and others who didn't agree with me just like most people. But God has caused me to love my enemies. He must be real because i had allot of hate. I still hate sometimes when i get weak, but I love my enemies, how is this possible if God was Not real?. What power has done this if it wasn't God? Jesus is the way, the truth, everything else fails to teach us to love. I fail to love so God Helps me. Believe what you will, once i only hated but now i also can love, God is real.

 

[oi_antz]

Hi JGG, not wanting to get dragged back into the debate, but just to let you know what I think about the comment you made that creation doesn't appear to have a designer essentially because you wish there was something different about it. I have no idea why God chose to make man as weak as he is, especially given the idea that man is His most prized "achievement". But the reason could very well be that man isn't His only prized achievement and quite possibly He has equal love for the wellbeing of our parasites. Who knows. All I really mean to say is that if God has a reason to make something the way it is, does that something have a right to say you shouldn't have made me like this? For example (and the best example I can think of since humans aren't yet the creators of life) a candle might like being a candle. It might not like the fact that every day it diminishes further into nothing. Does the candle have the right to think "maybe I just happened by accident because surely if someone made me he wouldn't allow this to happen to me? I mean, I see light bulbs and they live a long, healthy life". I think a lot of those problems you see are due to being dissatisfied to some extent, perhaps by seeing how other species are seemingly more advantaged by having heightened senses of sight, smell and hearing. The point I am getting at here is that your conclusion is based on a presumption that God doesn't have some sort of a reason for something, simply because we happen not to like it. There's quite a difference between those arguments though, on one hand you have humans wishing to be better than everything else, on the other hand you have God saying "this should be sufficient for the humans". There's still a lot of speculation around this topic, it wouldn't pay to jump too fast on that band wagon before you've actually had definitive proof that God doesn't exist. Cart before horse so to speak.

 

[JGG]

Hi JGG, not wanting to get dragged back into the debate, but just to let you know what I think about the comment you made that creation doesn't appear to have a designer essentially because you wish there was something different about it.

Don't misunderstand me, it's tough to say that I wish things were different. It's more of a matter of curiosity, and being skeptical. Why would God create us with a potentially fatal appendix that serves no other purpose. It's a matter of the argument for creationism is that "creation" is too perfect to have not been designed by a perfect designer. I'm just pointing out that it's not exactly perfect.

I have no idea why God chose to make man as weak as he is, especially given the idea that man is His most prized "achievement". But the reason could very well be that man isn't His only prized achievement and quite possibly He has equal love for the wellbeing of our parasites.

Are you suggesting that God loves cancer, and heart disease?

Who knows. All I really mean to say is that if God has a reason to make something the way it is, does that something have a right to say you shouldn't have made me like this?

That could be true, however, by making this claim, you undermine the argument that "creation" is obviously designed. That argument requires that we can look at the universe and see the intent of designer. Now that you say we can't see the designer's intent, that argument is gone.

For example (and the best example I can think of since humans aren't yet the creators of life) a candle might like being a candle. It might not like the fact that every day it diminishes further into nothing. Does the candle have the right to think "maybe I just happened by accident because surely if someone made me he wouldn't allow this to happen to me? I mean, I see light bulbs and they live a long, healthy life". I think a lot of those problems you see are due to being dissatisfied to some extent, perhaps by seeing how other species are seemingly more advantaged by having heightened senses of sight, smell and hearing.

I admit, I don't quite get your candle analogy.

The point I am getting at here is that your conclusion is based on a presumption that God doesn't have some sort of a reason for something, simply because we happen not to like it. There's quite a difference between those arguments though, on one hand you have humans wishing to be better than everything else, on the other hand you have God saying "this should be sufficient for the humans".

Not better than everything else, I didn't even get into how other creatures have systems which are better than ours, because that's not even the point. I looked at all of the obvious ways our bodies need to be better. What's the purpose of having 50% of people possessing eyes that don't work properly? Why make humans so weak to cancer, and heart disease? Why an appendix? This gives us skeptics plenty of reason to be skeptical, and destroys the "perfect design" argument.

There's still a lot of speculation around this topic, it wouldn't pay to jump too fast on that band wagon before you've actually had definitive proof that God doesn't exist. Cart before horse so to speak.

I do not require proof, or even evidence that God doesn't exist. It's not something I need to, or even strive prove. The burden of proof falls on those making the claim. Skeptics require no evidence, those trying to convince the skeptic do.

 

[JGG]

OK maybe there are some atheist in foxholes, all i know is if i was in one, i would be praying.

I'm willing to bet you pray even when you're not in a foxhole.

God through his son Jesus has shown me the way to love. The world cannot love only hate. I hated atheists and others who didn't agree with me just like most people. But God has caused me to love my enemies. He must be real because i had allot of hate. I still hate sometimes when i get weak, but I love my enemies, how is this possible if God was Not real? What power has done this if it wasn't God?

I would suggest: Conscience, empathy, maturity, or social pressure.

Jesus is the way, the truth, everything else fails to teach us to love.

Are you saying that non-Christians don't love? I'll get ahead of you here, just in case, and suggest that that is categorically untrue.

I fail to love so God Helps me. Believe what you will, once i only hated but now i also can love, God is real.

Well, I guess good luck with that.

 

[oi_antz]

Hi JGG, silly me to presume I could say something without a rebuttal!

Don't misunderstand me, it's tough to say that I wish things were different. It's more of a matter of curiosity, and being skeptical. Why would God create us with a potentially fatal appendix that serves no other purpose. It's a matter of the argument for creationism is that "creation" is too perfect to have not been designed by a perfect designer. I'm just pointing out that it's not exactly perfect.

Most Christians will avoid the word "perfect" when describing God's creation, the Bible states "very good" in every translation I've read, it doesn't state "perfect" although that word exists in other places of the Bible. I'm not sure where you get the idea that God made a perfect world, most people seem to acknowledge that because something went wrong and sin crept into human society, sin had always existed, just the human was not aware of it and therefore didn't desire it. Look carefully, it doesn't say that humans invented sin, only that they became perceptive to it. Also Paul mentions that death entered the world through Adam (Romans 5:12), and Genesis tells us that the consequence of disobedience was death, so I do believe there was no death in the world God had originally made.

Are you suggesting that God loves cancer, and heart disease?

I suppose it is possible, but it isn't specifically stated by God that He loves or hates these things. So we can only speculate.

That could be true, however, by making this claim, you undermine the argument that "creation" is obviously designed. That argument requires that we can look at the universe and see the intent of designer. Now that you say we can't see the designer's intent, that argument is gone.

Only by your process of logic. In fact, God does not tell us the reason for everything, it is the human that is so intent on finding the reason for everything. Humans are knowledge seekers, knowledge is a form of idolatry for some people. Although you can live your life long and prosperous and end up in the same place whether you know what powers the sun or not, knowledge is ultimately as valuable as gold at "the end of the day". The actual point I was making here though is based upon a false presumption of mine. I had presumed Romans 9:20-21 - Passage Lookup - New Living Translation - BibleGateway.com was relevant, but that wasn't what you were thinking and this becomes apparent in the following remarks:

I admit, I don't quite get your candle analogy.

Well then, you probably don't need to It was said while I was under the impression that you thought God could have done a better job of making the human.

Not better than everything else, I didn't even get into how other creatures have systems which are better than ours, because that's not even the point.

And this is what I didn't realize, it's a mistake on my part for misunderstanding you.

I looked at all of the obvious ways our bodies need to be better. What's the purpose of having 50% of people possessing eyes that don't work properly? Why make humans so weak to cancer, and heart disease? Why an appendix? This gives us skeptics plenty of reason to be skeptical, and destroys the "perfect design" argument.

I think it's hard to really picture how much the world changed with just one act which opened the human's mind to the perception of evil, it's like getting a mirror, smashing it and still calling it a mirror.

I do not require proof, or even evidence that God doesn't exist. It's not something I need to, or even strive prove. The burden of proof falls on those making the claim. Skeptics require no evidence, those trying to convince the skeptic do.

I suspect when you have nothing else in life but to face God and He says "I gave you a whole world full of proof, and x number of people to tell you and you still wouldn't acknowledge me", you might feel a bit foolish that your "skepticism" had been so important to you. I'm interested to know why you value skepticism so much, do you perceive a risk with acknowledging God?

 

[JGG]

I suspect when you have nothing else in life but to face God and He says "I gave you a whole world full of proof, and x number of people to tell you and you still wouldn't acknowledge me", you might feel a bit foolish that your "skepticism" had been so important to you. I'm interested to know why you value skepticism so much, do you perceive a risk with acknowledging God?

Well to start with the second thing first, we've already agreed that believing second-hand accounts of what God is, is basically useless. That being said, any evidence (there is no proof, that much is clear) that God has provided is ambiguous enough that nobody can agree on it. That being said, if you can provide evidence for god that is unambiguous I will officially be impressed.

Why am I skeptical? If I were to ask you to define God as comepletely as you could, you would give me whatever definition you feel appropriate. If I were to go to another board, and ask a believer there to define God for me, I would more than likely receive a completely different definition.

It seems that in almost every God concept, God consistently has human emotions, human motivations, human concerns, even human gender. It is difficult for most people to view God as anything other than a really "big" human. It doesn't help that everybody customizes their concept of God to what they want or expect God to be. White supremacists believe in a God who values white people more than everyone else, Americans tend to believe in a God who wants them to be rich and prosperous, and protects them, and people in third-world countries believe in a God that punishes their land because they are sinners, or rewards those who do harm to non-believers. Pretty much all theists believe in a God who will reward them, and punish everyone else, especially those who believe in that different, false God.

If there are 10,000 different concepts of God out there (there are far more), you and I share skepticism of 9,999 of them. We are both skeptical of Thor, and Zeus, and Ra. We are both skeptical of Allah, and the stories of Muhammad, or Xenu, or the teachings of Buddha. We both find reincarnation tough to believe, and the Raelians aren't even worth getting into. Really your question isn't "why I don't believe in God," but "why don't I believe in your God?" If I believed in Hubbard and Scientology, that probably wouldn't sit too well with you either.

So, to answer your question, why do I value skepticism?

(1) It doesn't seem as though anybody can really agree on what God is. Nearly all theists claim to have some special knowledge of God, but person A disagrees rather vehemently with what person B claims to know. So my first reason for being skeptical is that I will be honest enough to admit that "I don't know." If there is a God, I don't know the first thing about it, so I'm not going to pretend to. On the other hand, as long as everyone is disagreeing as to what God is, I cannot trust their testimonies and accounts either.

(2) I don't really desire a God. That is to say, I don't feel that I want or deserve some sort of reward or punishment after I die, I don't want answers for the sake of having answers, and I don't feel a need to be saved, or protected from the world outside.

(3) What I do have is curiosity, and a desire to understand things. That means asking lots questions, especially when things don't seem to make sense. It has been my experience that faith doesn't hold up very well to questions, so faith tends not to stick to me. We are all skeptical nearly all of the time. If I told you that I was capable of unassisted flight, or that I could read minds, you probably wouldn't believe me. You would probably ask for evidence, or proof. You would want to know how I do these fantastic things. That is understandable. Skepticism isn't a bad word. It's okay to want to understand how things work, why things are the way they are, and to not automatically believe someone when they say they can talk to animals. It's okay to be skeptical when someone tells you that there are 72 virgins waiting for you once you fly a plane into a building full of people.

(4) In early 19th century Joanna Southcott had faith that she was the woman spoken of in Revelation. Joanna had faith that she would give birth to the Messiah and that would bring about the end of the world. She was wrong, she didn't give birth to anyone, clearly the world didn't end, and she died not long after her failed due-date. Her followers had faith that she would raise herself from the dead. They're still waiting. Charles Welsey had faith that the world would end at the end of the 18th century. He was wrong. His brother John had faith that it would end at the beginning of the 19th century. He too was wrong. Edgar Whisenant had faith that the rapture would occur in 1988. He was also wrong.

These people all had faith without reason, and they were all wrong. These are just a few examples of obviously misplaced faith. To me, it serves as inpiration for me to be skeptical.

 

[godisreal36]

Gods word told me i didn't love and i already knew it because hate i know very well, so i agreed that i didn't know love. God himself says no one is good, not one person. Only he can Give us love to share with others. Love has a bigger meaning in the bible than the world has. Go to the bible and find what I'm talking about. Everyone hates. But who can truly love in the full meaning of it?

This world is not perfect because it's not our true home, it's temporary. This world has much pain, god doesn't like pain but he loves us all so he allows us to feel pain because he gave us free will. God didn't want a robot that loved him because he programed it to. He created us with free will, this made us act wrong in his site, so his word tells us we are no good and we need to love him because he loves us. He wants us to love him and each other and even our enemies, what other God says things like this? What other idea or religion Can answer the mystery of why there are so many religions? What Religion has all the answers? There is so much pain and suffering in this world, and nothing makes sense it all ends up in folly. Only God with Jesus makes sense, nothing else comes close. The bible has an answer for everything if you search for it you will find it. What other book has an explanation for this crazy world except Gods word the holy bible? All religions end in confusion, are we to become reincarnated as some religion believe, this makes no sense to me. Are we to believe in Allah and his many virgins that leave women without purpose, except only as mans servant, Islam seems to serve man not God. What makes sense? Only Jesus makes sense, the bible says we are all bad and only Jesus can make us right with God. This is easily done, all you need to do is accept his forgiveness and his son Jesus who is the one who died so you might live. Only Jesus makes sense to me. Jesus came for us sinners that we can live. Hell is real, this world is just a taste of this hell, it gets much worse. Please ask Jesus to show you he is real, ask him to save you, he will not let you down friend.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Why are atheists considered to be so dishonest?

Subscribing

 

[godisreal36]

Are you coming to bed? What? This is important, somebody is wrong on the Internet. Lol hysterically brother.

Your pic will make me die from laughter if you don't take it down. It makes me laugh at myself. Please don't take it down though, i love it. To die from laughter is better than sorrow. Praise Jesus

I am guilty of hate. Praise Jesus for loving me when i hated him. Gods grace sustains this sinner. I have turned from politics which is full of hate and lies, i found Jesus, in him there is no hate. I now love my enemy, thank you Jesus. who is like him? None

 

[godisreal36]

I'm willing to bet you pray even when you're not in a foxhole.



I would suggest: Conscience, empathy, maturity, or social pressure.



Are you saying that non-Christians don't love? I'll get ahead of you here, just in case, and suggest that that is categorically untrue.



Well, I guess good luck with that.

Conscience, empathy, maturity, and social pressure.

Thank you god in Jesus name for these things by which your mighty hand has caused me to love and not hate.

Have you considered that my hate was very strong, i still hate liberal ideas but i love liberals. Trust me, love was impossible for me until God showed me by his power and his word that i am just as guilty as my enemy. And that i am a nobody. It is God who told me if i don't forgive, he will not forgive me. God's pressure, not society. I hate societies "love". It's not the same love friend. God has real love for you if you want it. Just ask him.

 

[oi_antz]

Well to start with the second thing first, we've already agreed that believing second-hand accounts of what God is, is basically useless. That being said, any evidence (there is no proof, that much is clear) that God has provided is ambiguous enough that nobody can agree on it. That being said, if you can provide evidence for god that is unambiguous I will officially be impressed.

To some extent you are correct in stating what I believe. I do agree that second hand accounts of what God is is useless. What I think when I say this is probably much different from what you think though, such are the wonders of communication. One thing I learned when I came to hear God speak is that hearing the truth about God has <=-1 to do with hearing truth come from God Himself.

I don't believe the Bible is ambiguous evidence of God, rather it is a black and white account of God's involvement with certain people through history, and obviously the book itself isn't proof of God otherwise everyone would believe upon reading it. Rather, it serves the purpose well for those who choose to use it well and there are many people who can explain how the book actually makes God less ambiguous and better defined.

I think you could be getting confused by speaking to Christians since they aren't the one and only Word of God made flesh (John 1:1-14), therefore all our words are imperfect. Look to Jesus' words though and see if they aren't perfect. Look to the Holy Bible and see if the words aren't perfect. This is the problem you have with trying to ascertain truth from your fellow man, we are all just little God-like things running around trying to be God demonstrating our inherent imperfection to each other.

Why am I skeptical? If I were to ask you to define God as comepletely as you could, you would give me whatever definition you feel appropriate. If I were to go to another board, and ask a believer there to define God for me, I would more than likely receive a completely different definition.

This is why it's a tactic I try to avoid, you can't actually describe God with words. The Bible records God's interaction with people, it doesn't actually describe His nature because an infinite someone cannot be sufficiently described with words. Even you or I can't be sufficiently described with words. All the religious belief that has attempted to describe God suddenly makes sense when you come to hear God's voice and realize who He is, until that point you are just stuck with your imagination trying to picture this flying spaghetti monster. No, the Bible teaches us who God is by showing us His nature, His response to certain situations and the types of decisions He makes. This is one way we can come to be familiar with God's nature that when we become spiritually perceptive we can pick God's voice from among the chorus of lies trying to sway our beliefs away from the truth.

It seems that in almost every God concept, God consistently has human emotions, human motivations, human concerns, even human gender. It is difficult for most people to view God as anything other than a really "big" human. It doesn't help that everybody customizes their concept of God to what they want or expect God to be. White supremacists believe in a God who values white people more than everyone else, Americans tend to believe in a God who wants them to be rich and prosperous, and protects them, and people in third-world countries believe in a God that punishes their land because they are sinners, or rewards those who do harm to non-believers.

We draw associations to make sense of the world, this is the human plight to understand the world we live in. I think what you're saying about those who make up their own image of God could quite well be indulging in idolatry.

Deuteronomy 4
A Warning against Idolatry

15 “But be very careful! You did not see the Lord’s form on the day he spoke to you from the heart of the fire at Mount Sinai. 16 So do not corrupt yourselves by making an idol in any form—whether of a man or a woman, 17 an animal on the ground, a bird in the sky, 18 a small animal that scurries along the ground, or a fish in the deepest sea. 19 And when you look up into the sky and see the sun, moon, and stars—all the forces of heaven—don’t be seduced into worshiping them. The Lord your God gave them to all the peoples of the earth.

See if they have scripture to back up their claims about God being male/female/non-gendered and white supremest or the provider of riches, and whether the scripture is being twisted out of it's original context. The people whose seed falls amongst thorns really do have a tendency to twist scripture out of context because the way they read the Bible is to find proof of their beliefs. There is no humility there, they are actually telling God what He should be saying and these are also the ones in John 15.

Pretty much all theists believe in a God who will reward them, and punish everyone else, especially those who believe in that different, false God.

That demonstrates a fear of God exists even in those who don't know the God of Israel. There's plenty of times God has been put up against a false god and He came out on top. Same can't be said for god against god I don't think, their house is a shambles. As for God being in charge of every facet of existence, from rain to drought, I do tend to believe He is. The reason why there is flooding and drought in various parts of the word? No idea. Possibly due to geography especially the destruction of rain forest for pasture I suspect would have an impact on global weather stability. I'm not an expert in weather, I do believe Elijah in 1 Kings 17 had been speaking God's will when God said He would cease the rain.

If there are 10,000 different concepts of God out there (there are far more), you and I share skepticism of 9,999 of them. We are both skeptical of Thor, and Zeus, and Ra. We are both skeptical of Allah, and the stories of Muhammad, or Xenu, or the teachings of Buddha. We both find reincarnation tough to believe, and the Raelians aren't even worth getting into. Really your question isn't "why I don't believe in God," but "why don't I believe in your God?" If I believed in Hubbard and Scientology, that probably wouldn't sit too well with you either.

Don't presume this is so. I don't disbelieve these gods exist, I just don't trust them. And really, it isn't me who you think is driving this division, it is Jesus the Christ who claims to be the son of God. You either believe He is the Lord, a liar or a lunatic. I don't see any other opinion you could have about Him.

So, to answer your question, why do I value skepticism?

(1) It doesn't seem as though anybody can really agree on what God is. Nearly all theists claim to have some special knowledge of God, but person A disagrees rather vehemently with what person B claims to know. So my first reason for being skeptical is that I will be honest enough to admit that "I don't know." If there is a God, I don't know the first thing about it, so I'm not going to pretend to. On the other hand, as long as everyone is disagreeing as to what God is, I cannot trust their testimonies and accounts either.

That doesn't answer the question, why is skepticism valuable. Just because everyone has disagreements does not substantiate skepticism. You happen to have disagreements because you are skeptical.

(2) I don't really desire a God. That is to say, I don't feel that I want or deserve some sort of reward or punishment after I die, I don't want answers for the sake of having answers, and I don't feel a need to be saved, or protected from the world outside.

Interesting, does the world revolve around you and only you? Maybe one day you will actually see that it revolves around God, as it ought to. Some people just can't manage to accept this so they deny it. I'm interested to discover the motive behind this, hence why I asked you.

(3) What I do have is curiosity, and a desire to understand things. That means asking lots questions, especially when things don't seem to make sense. It has been my experience that faith doesn't hold up very well to questions, so faith tends not to stick to me.

Right there: do you expect that when you believe you will have the same faith as someone else? Why would you think so?

We are all skeptical nearly all of the time. If I told you that I was capable of unassisted flight, or that I could read minds, you probably wouldn't believe me. You would probably ask for evidence, or proof. You would want to know how I do these fantastic things.

Yes I would. If however I lived after you had existed and people had given their accounts of witnessing your unassisted flight or mind reading, I would believe so unless there was proof that it was a hoax. I understand such proof doesn't exist in the case of Jesus, do you happen to have some proof against Jesus?

That is understandable. Skepticism isn't a bad word. It's okay to want to understand how things work, why things are the way they are, and to not automatically believe someone when they say they can talk to animals.

Don't you believe animals can communicate? I talk with dogs and they listen and talk back. Not with words mind you, but you can tell what they think about this and that.

It's okay to be skeptical when someone tells you that there are 72 virgins waiting for you once you fly a plane into a building full of people.

This is good, actually a bone with meat on it. I'm pretty sure even those with faith in their religion, even those of the Islamic religion would have some skepticism when someone says that. It could very well be to do with the twisting of scripture to support a belief. What I'm getting at though, which you seem to be evading, is why do you think being skeptical about God is a good thing? Is there some sort of perceived risk if you were to acknowledge God?

(4) In early 19th century Joanna Southcott had faith that she was the woman spoken of in Revelation. Joanna had faith that she would give birth to the Messiah and that would bring about the end of the world. She was wrong, she didn't give birth to anyone, clearly the world didn't end, and she died not long after her failed due-date. Her followers had faith that she would raise herself from the dead. They're still waiting. Charles Welsey had faith that the world would end at the end of the 18th century. He was wrong. His brother John had faith that it would end at the beginning of the 19th century. He too was wrong. Edgar Whisenant had faith that the rapture would occur in 1988. He was also wrong.

These people all had faith without reason, and they were all wrong. These are just a few examples of obviously misplaced faith. To me, it serves as inpiration for me to be skeptical.

Ah, we are getting somewhere. You like to be correct do you? I am thinking that might be what motivates you to deny God until you've had sufficient proof that makes Him undeniable. Is this an accurate assertion?

 

[godisreal36]

Gods word is our guide. Without it we are blind. Jesus and God and the spirit are one, God is the word. If you reject Gods word you reject God and don't know his spirit. If you say Jesus is lord you have done so by the spirit of god, but you are blind and will be lead astray without gods word.

 

[godisreal36]

I believe in deep connections also. Only god can provide this. The world suffers and wonders why, and no one has answers. we don't know love and we hurt each other and god is here, sharing each and every pain that we do. he is not blind to the crimes of this world and will repay each and every one of them. When we hurt each other we hurt God. He allows this because he loves us and is patient, not hateful. He wishes that we will all choose him even those that do the hurting, because he loves even them. He died for us all. God loves us, he has more for us than we can see. Life is an ilusion. Jesus is the meaning of life. True love can only be found in Jesus. The hard core truth. No opinion, reality.