Why do people strongly dislike Christians?

[hamashiachagape]

Ephesians 3
14For this reason I kneel before the Father, 15from whom his whole family[a] in heaven and on earth derives its name. 16I pray that out of his glorious riches he may strengthen you with power through his Spirit in your inner being, 17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, 18may have power, together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, 19and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God.

20Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to his power that is at work within us, 21to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen.

Disagreement on the word ekklesia. Everyting else, good.

 

[hamashiachagape]

Language is culture. If a culture speaks a language with spiritual images, that culture become spiritual in nature. The ancient middle-eastern desert lovers of God were very spiritual in their understanding of the world. The spiritual was their vision of life itself, including Love and Compassion. The Greek, not so.


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Whoops.

No language are the words spoken that contain meaning. Culture has sociological impact.

 

[dlamberth]

Based off of a modernistic definition of love this makes sense.

Look past "definitions" and open your heart to Love. What do you feel? Better yet, open your heart in Love to Humanity in the way that Jesus does...what do you feel in that expanded love?

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[hamashiachagape]

Look past "definitions" and open your heart to Love. What do you feel? Better yet, open your heart in Love to Humanity in the way that Jesus does...what do you feel in that expanded love?

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And head right on down that slippery slope of accepting a special pleading fallacy.

 

[dlamberth]

And head right on down that slippery slope of accepting a special pleading fallacy.

not at all. Love is an opened heart experience. All I'm doing is asking that you look at your heart as it loves and see what you see.

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[hamashiachagape]

not at all. Love is an opened heart experience. All I'm doing is asking that you look at your heart as it loves and see what you see.

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How about we understand love according to how the writers of the text would have understood it to be, and how God communicated it. Now thats a better idea.

 

[dlamberth]

Not so. You've jumped from language to culture here. ANE culture to Hellenistic to be exact. The understanding is what is of importance. You're thinking of the understanding of the nation of Greece vs. the understanding of a Jew. Don't forget who Paul was.....Romans 3:1.

I did a study of the Aramic Lord Payer, it's been a while but I want to use it as an example of how a spiritual language looks.

The first word in the Aramaic Lords Prayer is "Abwum". The Greek translation of that word into English is "Our Father". In Aramic, one of the transliterations is "Oh Thou, From whom the breath of life comes".

The second word in the Aramaic Lords Prayer is "d'bwaschmaja". The Greek translation of that word into English is, "who art though in Heaven". In Aramic, one of the transliterations is "who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.

Hopefully this example will help see the difference between a spiritual language and a non-spiritual language. And how a spiritual culture looks at life and how a non-spiritual culture looks at life. But take it a step further and actually feel the breath of God in life. Than your really getting into the mind of the ancient Middle-Eastern lovers of God.


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[dlamberth]

How about we understand love according to how the writers of the text would have understood it to be, and how God communicated it. Now thats a better idea.

Maybe for you, but I'm thinking that we just "BE" Love. And if Christians did just that that they would be liked a lot more...and more people would want to be like Christians as a result.

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[hamashiachagape]

I did a study of the Aramic Lord Payer, it's been a while but I want to use it as an example of how a spiritual language looks.

The first work in the Aramaic Lords Prayer is "Abwum". The Greek translation of that word into English is "Our Father". In Aramic, one of the transliterations is "Oh Thou, From whom the breath of life comes".

The second word in the Aramaic Lords Prayer is "d'bwaschmaja". The Greek translation of that word into English is, "who art though in Heaven". In Aramic, one of the transliterations is "who fills all realms of sound, light and vibration.

Hopefully this example will help see the difference between a spiritual language and a non-spiritual language. And how a spiritual culture looks at life and how a non-spiritual culture looks at life. But take it a step further and actually feel the breath of God in life. Than your really getting into the mind of the ancient Middle-Eastern lovers of God.


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How is the Hebrew language any different from this? The translational issues are not too heavy a concern for us. Besides, likely, much of the Greek can be translated back into Aramaic primacy of the Bible, and its likely that the originally texts of the Bible were Aramaic, not Greek. James Patrick Holding wrote I believe it was a peer reviewed article on this at www.equip.org.

Secondly, by nitpicking at words, you're missing the context of the entire sentence structures that are layed out.

 

[dlamberth]

How is the Hebrew language any different from this? The translational issues are not too heavy a concern for us. Besides, likely, much of the Greek can be translated back into Aramaic primacy of the Bible, and its likely that the originally texts of the Bible were Aramaic, not Greek. James Patrick Holding wrote I believe it was a peer reviewed article on this at www.equip.org.

Secondly, by nitpicking at words, you're missing the context of the entire sentence structures that are layed out.

What started this side bar is the expression of Love and the spiritual understanding of Love from the people in the Ancient middle-ease. A lot get's lost when translating a spiritual language from a spiritual culture into a non-spiritual language of a non-spiritual culture. You just can't get around that fact.

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[hamashiachagape]

What started this side bar is the expression of Love and the spiritual understanding of Love from the people in the Ancient middle-ease. A lot get's lost when translating a spiritual language from a spiritual culture into a non-spiritual language of a non-spiritual culture. You just can't get around that fact.

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Actually, especially after evaluating your presented material, it appears that you are nitpicking at certain words, and not taking the whole Greek language as a whole. When taken as a whole, theres no more reason to believe (especially written from a Pharisee), that,given his cultural background the language written and the context presented by Paul is any less spiritual than his writings would be in Hebrew.

 

[dlamberth]

Actually, especially after evaluating your presented material, it appears that you are nitpicking at certain words, and not taking the whole Greek language as a whole. When taken as a whole, theres no more reason to believe (especially written from a Pharisee), that,given his cultural background the language written and the context presented by Paul is any less spiritual than his writings would be in Hebrew.

As I already demonstrated in the Aramaic Lords Prayer example, the language barrier gives plenty of reason.

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[hamashiachagape]

As I already demonstrated in the Aramaic Lords Prayer example, the language barrier gives plenty of reason.

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You haven't demonstrated a true language barrier though. It doesn't mean that the context of an Aramaic sentence can not be presented into Greek, any more or less so than it demonstrates that the Arabic language can not be translated in its context and intent into English. This is a postmodernistic argument, which as its principles, is self refuting.

 

[merryheart]

You haven't demonstrated a true language barrier though. It doesn't mean that the context of an Aramaic sentence can not be presented into Greek, any more or less so than it demonstrates that the Arabic language can not be translated in its context and intent into English. This is a postmodernistic argument, which as its principles, does not do well to support the Muslim faith.

am i missing something? I did not think that this was a thread about Muslim faith, or that dlamberth is a Muslim

 

[hamashiachagape]

am i missing something? I did not think that this was a thread about Muslim faith, or that dlamberth is a Muslim

You're right, I got the symbols mixed up. It nonetheless does nothing, because by use of his reasoning, I can not absolutely determine, given the reasoning he's utililzing, the language he's presenting to me understand the context of his claims, even though he intends on this being done since he's typing to me.

Basically his use of one word to make a point....doesn't make a point, because the context of the word means the exact same thing in the one language as it does another.

 

[hamashiachagape]

What started this side bar is the expression of Love and the spiritual understanding of Love from the people in the Ancient middle-ease. A lot get's lost when translating a spiritual language from a spiritual culture into a non-spiritual language of a non-spiritual culture. You just can't get around that fact.

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Ah..the results of hellenization.

Yes I'm aware of this problem. It still exists in our churches today. I used to be a part of the problem as a NeoPlatonic Christian.

 

[dlamberth]

We should be. What is love though? One must define that first, in Ancient Near East terms. Ahava, and Agape primarily is a good description of what we mean. Its more of a tough love. Not a love that says we can do whatever we want to do. There is respect involved too, both for God and our fellow man. So if we love the Lord our God with all our hearts, and follow his commands, then love can be exemplified through us.

Basically, Love is what we are; we don't get it from somebody, we can't give it to anybody, we can't fall in it or fall out of it. Love is our True Being.


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[hamashiachagape]

Basically, Love is what we are; we don't get it from somebody, we can't give it to anybody, we can't fall in it or fall out of it. Love is our True Being.


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But thats a modernistic understanding. Not an ANE. After studying the culture in a more defined way, I think you would see what I mean.

On your Greek example also, you have heard about the Septuagint I hope. The language of Hebrew did not seem to have much problem being translated into Greek by the 72 rabbis. Why would this change all of a sudden?

 

[dlamberth]

But thats a modernistic understanding. Not an ANE. After studying the culture in a more defined way, I think you would see what I mean.

On your Greek example also, you have heard about the Septuagint I hope. The language of Hebrew did not seem to have much problem being translated into Greek by the 72 rabbis. Why would this change all of a sudden?

Just go love God...and than go love other other people in the same way you love Him.

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[rueldavao]

Jesus Christ was not welcome in this world He was condemned by being a christian ..the world hate the Christian people because the world is evil. words of our Lord from John 7:7 (The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that what it does is evil.) read whole chapter John 7 ..good day brother pls share some of your thoughts and wisdom to me too o.k. ..God bless