Why so much division within Christianity on book of Revelation?

LittleLambofJesus

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Why is there such a wide diversity of views concerning the Book of Revelation in the NT/NC of the Bible?
This has always confounded me. Thanks for any input and thoughts on this. God bless

edit to add: ACCCKKKK! The word "do" in the title should be "so" LOL.....Could a mod or admin change it for me? Thanks
 

jpcedotal

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For the same reason, there is so much diversity over the rest of the Bible. Everyone thinks his/her interpretation is the right one and based on how they interpret the 65 books before Revelation, the last book has to be bent in order to tie up the loose ends.

That is why I interpret the Bible literally. Never take the Bible out of context and keep Jesus as the main theme no matter which book of the Bible one is in.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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The Word apocalypsis means to make naked so since God's mind is being made naked perhaps it has a similar effect on those made in His image and likeness?
Interesting. I have never heard it put exactly like that, but that could also be a good rendering :)

Luke 2:32 A light into a from-covering/apo-kaluyin <602> of Nations and glory of people of Thee Israel

Revelation 1:1 A-from-covering/apo-kaluyiV <602> of Jesus Christ, which gives to him, the God, to show to His bond-servants, which-things is binding to be becoming in swiftness.
And He signifies commissioning thru the messenger of Him, to the bondservants of Him, John.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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The Word apocalypsis means to make naked so since God's mind is being made naked perhaps it has a similar effect on those made in His image and likeness?
Heb 4:12

12For the word of God [is] living and operative, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and penetrating to [the] division of soul and spirit, both of joints and marrow, and a discerner of the thoughts and intents of [the] heart. 13And there is not a creature unapparent before him; but all things [are] naked and laid bare to his eyes, with whom we have to do.

http://www.christianforums.com/versions/Darby-Translation-Bible/
 
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Gregory Thompson

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Revelation is multilayered . like much of the scripture . a linear interpretation quite often does not always get the point .

A good example is Isaiah chapter 9 . with a linear interpretation the Pharisees missed it .
 
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Seeking Him

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I was taught that Revelation was all in the future. Then I started reading books that taught otherwise. It made me think. People might be so set in their ideas or maybe afraid of being open to anothe interpretation. When you read how many times the Lord said these things are coming to pass soon, how can we think they are still to be fulfilled? It seems that much of Revelation was about the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple.
 
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Emmy

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Dear LittleLambofJesus. The Revelation of St. John the Divine. I am not saying anything untoward it, but I am more interested in our Lord Himself, what He says and does. And to be truthful, I find it all a bit confusing. Perhaps St. John is seeing things which are too Heavenly for the ordinary follower of Christ. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.
 
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ChildOfGod97

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Why is there such a wide diversity of views concerning the Book of Revelation in the NT/NC of the Bible?
This has always confounded me. Thanks for any input and thoughts on this. God bless

edit to add: ACCCKKKK! The word "do" in the title should be "so" LOL.....Could a mod or admin change it for me? Thanks


You know, when there is a matter people people are very objective about but have a diversity of opinion, the conversations are very different then when there is a matter with a diversity of opinion and a lack of objectivity. For instance, with arguments on Macs versus PCs. :)

Or politics.

Versus, say, on matters such as how to fix a car, good places to live, good travel destinations, and so on.

On the diversity itself, which is the subject of your post: when I look for the meaning, say, of some of Daniel's prophecies such as the statue, I am not going to find much diversity there. The evidence is strong. The prophecy has so come true, that skeptical scholars have to date the book much later just so they don't have a crisis of unbelief. ;)


(Not that there are not prophecies within Daniel or aspects of prophecies that are not so clear.)

What we have with Revelation, however, apart from the end parts and the exhortations to faith is a really, really complex and obscure puzzle. Most prophecies and much content in Scripture is really enigmatic. We know from the prophets and Moses God did this intentionally.


So, unlike figuring out "if the head is Babylon, what is next in the statue of Daniel" where we can simply go to consensus opinion and the history books... it is really very unclear.

And God said it would be unclear through Jesus.


There are still, groups people get into over the ages. One problem is that people start to take their own interpretations as divine inspiration. That is fine, as all right biblical interpretation ultimately comes by inspiration, but what I mean though is that it might be of evidence which is not able to be argued reasonably as say, a court case, or how to fix a broken toilet.

That is people end up with flat statements and believe them or expect others to just because they said so. Or because their church said so. Or because some authorities said so.


Problem with that is there are now and have been many great Christians, clearly saved, who have had very divergent viewpoints. And further, from Scripture, I do not believe we see this as the model for prophetic interpretation. Jesus had concrete, though intangible proofs for his ministry. The statue of Daniel and other plainly observable prophecies in Scripture make sense when one finally gets to the right answer.


With modern thought, I think this ties in with the concept of the seven seals being the book of revelation, which I do not think is necessarily true at all. It may be. It may not be. I have no solid proof either way. That further leads to the idea that if one simply believes a flat statement without strong evidence that this flat statement might imply some manner of greater divine approval on them then others have on them. (I might add that the reformists and many believed that event happened long ago. Many Protestants today do not see it that way. Or they think there is only "futurism" or "preterism", though there is not. I am "none of the above", and tend to far more rule out preterism then futurism, but do lean towards historicism, which is what I largely learned from reading the reformers and the old saints.)


But, is viewpoints on such matters saving faith? What about loving one's enemies and neighbors, turning the other cheek, watching how we judge and condemn in our hearts, believing in the death and resurrection and ascension to Heaven of Jesus and living in that to find our own salvation, even resurrection from death and sin?


Finally, there are issues such as "the big issue" on why God hides matters ('it is God's glory to hide a matter'), and on intentional disinformation from the wicked powers of the air.
 
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lionroar0

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Why is there such a wide diversity of views concerning the Book of Revelation in the NT/NC of the Bible?
This has always confounded me. Thanks for any input and thoughts on this. God bless

edit to add: ACCCKKKK! The word "do" in the title should be "so" LOL.....Could a mod or admin change it for me? Thanks

IMO. It's because it's written in apocalyptic language that's very symbolic. It allows for ppl to assign meaning to Revelations to fit their theology.
 
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Dorothea

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It's the most difficult book out of the holy books given to us to read. It's very hard to interpret, and to try on our own has caused all the divisions. Best to let the experts from the Church interpret it for us. :D
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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The first promise in the book of Revelations

Revelations 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

The conditions placed on the blessing is reading and hearing. Those who keep those things written in it would definately imply to me that there are codes of conduct within based on the character of Jesus and therefore our character in Christ. So understanding would also be part of the hearing. And the understanding is what works to bring His character within. All according to the bringing it to mind of the Holy Spirit. In hearing, they believed, and turned to God, which is repentence, which is a rebirth or renewing , refreshing of the Spirit.


Revelation 22:7
Jesus Is Coming
"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

For the time is near.


Romans 13:11
And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.

Revelation 22:10
Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near.

Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.

 
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ebia

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IMO. It's because it's written in apocalyptic language that's very symbolic. It allows for ppl to assign meaning to Revelations to fit their theology.
Especially in a world that has forgotton what most of the symbols meant, and forgotten how to read apocalypic texts, and forgotten that there was something to forget in the first place.
 
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Anglian

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Dear LLOJ,

finally a thread on your favourite book:)

One problem is that it was one the books over which doubt persisted for longest - that is there were many who doubted whether it was part of the genuine Apostolic deposit.

Given that it is supposed to have originated with St. John on Patmos, it is odd that it was the Eastern Church which had least knowledge of it; it does not appear to have been circulated widely in the East.

There were several examples of Apocalyptic literature to which its advocates pointed: 1 Enoch, Daniel 7-12, 4 Ezra, 2 Baruch, as well as the Apocalypse of Abraham. But St. John's Apocalypse goes way beyond these exemplars and is a genuinely intertextual text, as you know; it contains so many references to other texts, and its imagery is so rich that any notion of a 'literal' reading goes out of the window.

Which was part of the reason many early Christians fought shy of it. It was the one book which lent itself to whatever interpretation anyone wanted to offer of it, and was thus often used by heretics.

Another difficulty with authentication was authorship. If it was St. John then it is strange that Churches in his own part of the world knew it so little. St. Cyril of Jerusalem and St. Gregory of Nazianzus did not number it among the genuinely Apostolic books, and St. John Chysostom never refers to it in his voluminous writings.

On the other hand St. Irenaeus, who knew it and accepted it, tells us it was written in the reign of Domitian (81-96). Amongst the clearest evidence (sorry for this) is the use of the name Babylon for Rome - in Jewish literature this association is common after AD 70.

The Preterist view is one of four commonly held ones, the others being: the -- Idealist (that is that it is concerned with timeless ideas and principles
- Church/World-Historical (that is that it is a detailed prophecy of the whole of human history.
- End historical (that is that it is exclusively concerned with what will happen in the end times).

My knowledgeable Greek friends tell me the Greek is idiosyncratic - and there is a tradition which says that that is because this was not St. John's first language. But the links between the author of this book and that of the Johannine Gospel and letters is now doubted by many, if not most, modern Bible scholars.

Hope that helps:wave:

peace,

Anglian
 
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Gregory Thompson

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My knowledgeable Greek friends tell me the Greek is idiosyncratic - and there is a tradition which says that that is because this was not St. John's first language. But the links between the author of this book and that of the Johannine Gospel and letters is now doubted by many, if not most, modern Bible scholars.

well .. the writing styles are totally different .. i mean even if Johnny were to hand in the paper of revelation and then the Gospel of John even a regular teacher would have accused plagiarism .
 
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brinny

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The first promise in the book of Revelations

Revelations 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

The conditions placed on the blessing is reading and hearing. Those who keep those things written in it would definately imply to me that there are codes of conduct within based on the character of Jesus and therefore our character in Christ. So understanding would also be part of the hearing. And the understanding is what works to bring His character within. All according to the bringing it to mind of the Holy Spirit. In hearing, they believed, and turned to God, which is repentence, which is a rebirth or renewing , refreshing of the Spirit.


Revelation 22:7
Jesus Is Coming
"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

For the time is near.


Romans 13:11
And do this, understanding the present time. The hour has come for you to wake up from your slumber, because our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed.

Revelation 22:10
Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near.

Revelation 3:11
I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.


this is what i get from Revelation.
 
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Anglian

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well .. the writing styles are totally different .. i mean even if Johnny were to hand in the paper of revelation and then the Gospel of John even a regular teacher would have accused plagiarism .
I'm not quite following this? You start by saying the styles are different (and I agree) but end by suggesting that the styles are so similar that a charge of plagiarism might be in order?

peace,

Anglian
 
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Gregory Thompson

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I'm not quite following this? You start by saying the styles are different (and I agree) but end by suggesting that the styles are so similar that a charge of plagiarism might be in order?

peace,

Anglian

Uh yeah . look at the frequency of greek words per sentence in revelation . (very simple) and the frequency of greek words per sentence in John .(many, complex) . and then after that look at all the literary devices used in the Gospel of John .. the writer of Revelation does not illustrate this "literary" knowledge so any teacher would have alarm bells go off . it is not all that unreasonable to think that John's name was put on it for continuity purposes .

the personalities of the people writing these texts is totally different . writing style is like a fingerprint . so i would need some real good reason why the author of revelation wrote like a tradesman and the author of John wrote like a tax collector (like Matthew or John-Mark) or other educated profession (such as a literary scholar) .

the gap is a bit too obvious to not notice .
 
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