VeriChip

[get it right]

And I guess a third of the stars will actually be wiped out by a dragon's tail, too.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

stars here = fallen angels
so yes the dragons tail (satan) will draw a third of the angels of Heaven and cast them to earth.

 

[get it right]

I am sure that you read the bible. Do you understand Revelation in the same way that first century Christians did. Or do you have the bible in one hand and the newspaper in the other, trying to make sense of it?

I take most of the bible literally, and that which is figuritive or symbolic, I look for it's literal meaning, as someone else here also say's.

 

[Hammster]

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

stars here = fallen angels
so yes the dragons tail (satan) will draw a third of the angels of Heaven and cast them to earth.

So 'stars' are symbolic, and yet the mark is literal? Hmm.

 

[squint]

it changes how we look at the mark... many people think of it as being in the body, as in a way of thinking, or our actions, but that's not what epi implies

Part of the problems of observations...people insist on a literal arriving at that conclusion by an 'implied' meaning, which of course takes one instantly off a literal only understanding. Using the term implied may in fact 'imply' MANY THINGS.

The priest class of the Old Testament were advised to to bind The Word to their forehead and their right hand...so they walked around with various little gadgets with writings them...a little HAT/DIADEM with the Word on it and a little scroll that they wore on their wrists...they are sometimes termed 'prophylacteries.'

The practice comes from Deut. 6 and also in Deut. 11 regarding the Words of the Law:
8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.

Supposedly to remind the wearers not to 'sin in mind' (the head binding of Word) or 'in deed' (the hand binding of Word.) The 'term' prophylactery is oddly still associated with 'protection.' I'm sure quite a lot of prayers have went up around that matter...

There are many interesting correlations of sin in MIND (lack of Word applications) and sin in DEED (lack of Word applications) where these types of EXTERNAL MARKS were to be an 'aid.' Or for example when David hurled the little stone into the FOREHEAD of Goliath...yes, there IS implied meanings there that will not yield just looking at the forehead of Goliath or the stone or the child throwing it, etc etc etc. These are all somewhat deep subject matters.

The term 'forehead' was used also to depict A FRAME OF MIND...inside the head. One of my favorties was to term a person without SHAME as having A harlot'S FOREHEAD:

Jeremiah 3:3
Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a harlot's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

IF they Jews had a more SPIRITUAL view of these matters they probably wouldn't have tied the Words on the outside of their bodies:

Deuteronomy 6:6
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart

If they got TOO LITERAL with that meaning they'd have been cutting themselves open and trying to STICK A SCROLL OF WORD into their literal heart...wouldn't surprise me if some of them might have even tried it. Good thing it wasn't recorded.

Obviously a MAN did not have this condition (cutting themselves apart and sticking the Word inTO their HEART) if one wanted to take that term ONLY literally...yawn....

Of couse such literal only nonsense in relation to THE WORD ON A LITERAL EXTERNAL TIED TO THE HEAD OR HAND basis is probably pretty far from the implied meanings of Jesus regarding the Word.

THE INITIATION OF THE MARK OF THE BEAST in the MIND comes right here:

Matthew 13:19
When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

ALL people (great and small,) PARTICULARLY Christians already are carrying the MARK OF THE BEAST in their MINDS and in their HANDS...as they SIN IN MIND and they SIN IN DEED...showing the EXISTENCE of the BEAST who has entered therein.

Surprise!

and of course...

enjoy!

squint

 

[contrabar]

simple question: does "epi" mean in or "on"?

 

[get it right]

So 'stars' are symbolic, and yet the mark is literal? Hmm.

It's clear that some of revelation is symbolic and some is literal.

 

[pdudgeon]

It's clear that some of revelation is symbolic and some is literal.

agreed. In Revelation the glorified Jesus looked nothing like He did the last time John saw Him on earth, but there was no doubt in John's mind who Jesus was.

But getting back to the Verichip technology, this is just one more example of how things can be used in a good way or in a bad way, according to the intent of the person using them.

 

[Ave Maria]

There is no "mark of the Beast"

The more people read into the Bible, putting in odd interpretations and ideas that were never intended or are there, the more non-Christians are turned away from the Gospel.

Yes there is. The Bible clearly speaks of a mark of the Beast.

(Revelation 16:2 NIV) The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.

 

[trialbyfire]

And I guess a third of the stars will actually be wiped out by a dragon's tail, too.

Revelation 12, to which you are referring, tells us twice what is happening. Once, symbolically which is a reference to Daniel, and once actually - it tells us that Michael and his angels kicks the devil and his angels out of their current abode and down to the earth. The same chapter even tells us twice about the church being removed - once, symbolically, as the man-child and secondly, actually, as the people in heaven praising God and dwelling there warning those on the earth about the devil being cast down.

You'll find that the symbolic things in Revelation have an OT reference.

The mark of the beast is similar to the mark that God told the scribe to put on those who believe in Him in Ezekiel 9.

It will have to be an actual mark because the devil and his angels will be bound to the earth. They can only copy what God does using the technology here. The fact that the devil marks those who belong to him and kills everyone else is exactly what God did in Ezekiel 9.

Another example is when God destroys gog with hail, fire, and blood from the sky (Ezek 38/Rev 8). Revelation 13 shows that in order to convince people he God, the false prophet has to perform a false miracle, specifically fire falling from the sky.

The plagues that came against Egypt/Pharaoh are also partially found in Revelation. The 90 foot statue of Nebuchadnezzar is alluded to with the image set up that everyone has to worship in Rev 13. The four horsemen of Revelation 6 are found in Zech 6, Zech 1, Ezekiel 14:28. The two witnesses of Revelation 11 are found in Zechariah as well. Even the scroll (with the 7 seals in Rev 5 and throughout) is found in Zechariah.

Revelation is lining up for fulfillment. Everyone had better pay attention and stop scoffing at it.

 

[get it right]

agreed. In Revelation the glorified Jesus looked nothing like He did the last time John saw Him on earth, but there was no doubt in John's mind who Jesus was.

But getting back to the Verichip technology, this is just one more example of how things can be used in a good way or in a bad way, according to the intent of the person using them.

Yeah and dosn't He look good.

Revelation 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

 

[zeke37]

Yes there is. The Bible clearly speaks of a mark of the Beast.

(Revelation 16:2 NIV) The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.

Ex13, Deut6, Deut11 can teach us what the mark is...

God's mark is a blessing, the beast's is a curse



Ex13:1And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.
3And Moses said unto the people, Remember this day, in which ye came out from Egypt, out of the house of bondage; for by strength of hand the LORD brought you out from this place: there shall no leavened bread be eaten.
4This day came ye out in the month Abib.
5And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, which he sware unto thy fathers to give thee, a land flowing with milk and honey, that thou shalt keep this service in this month.
6Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, and in the seventh day shall be a feast to the LORD.
7Unleavened bread shall be eaten seven days; and there shall no leavened bread be seen with thee, neither shall there be leaven seen with thee in all thy quarters.
8And thou shalt shew thy son in that day, saying, This is done because of that which the LORD did unto me when I came forth out of Egypt.
9And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the LORD's law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the LORD brought thee out of Egypt.
10Thou shalt therefore keep this ordinance in his season from year to year.
11And it shall be when the LORD shall bring thee into the land of the Canaanites, as he sware unto thee and to thy fathers, and shall give it thee,
12That thou shalt set apart unto the LORD all that openeth the matrix, and every firstling that cometh of a beast which thou hast; the males shall be the LORD's.
13And every firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break his neck: and all the firstborn of man among thy children shalt thou redeem.
14And it shall be when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What is this? that thou shalt say unto him, By strength of hand the LORD brought us out from Egypt, from the house of bondage:
15And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.
16And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
17And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:
18But God led the people about, through the way of the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.
19And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you.
20And they took their journey from Succoth, and encamped in Etham, in the edge of the wilderness.
21And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
22He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.



Deut6:1Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
2That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
3Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
6And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
7And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
8And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.
10And it shall be, when the LORD thy God shall have brought thee into the land which he sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give thee great and goodly cities, which thou buildedst not,
11And houses full of all good things, which thou filledst not, and wells digged, which thou diggedst not, vineyards and olive trees, which thou plantedst not; when thou shalt have eaten and be full;
12Then beware lest thou forget the LORD, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
13Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God, and serve him, and shalt swear by his name.
14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you;
15(For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you) lest the anger of the LORD thy God be kindled against thee, and destroy thee from off the face of the earth.
16Ye shall not tempt the LORD your God, as ye tempted him in Massah.
17Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.
18And thou shalt do that which is right and good in the sight of the LORD: that it may be well with thee, and that thou mayest go in and possess the good land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers.
19To cast out all thine enemies from before thee, as the LORD hath spoken.
20And when thy son asketh thee in time to come, saying, What mean the testimonies, and the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD our God hath commanded you?
21Then thou shalt say unto thy son, We were Pharaoh's bondmen in Egypt; and the LORD brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand:
22And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, upon Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes:
23And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers.
24And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
25And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.



Deut11:1Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
2And know ye this day: for I speak not with your children which have not known, and which have not seen the chastisement of the LORD your God, his greatness, his mighty hand, and his stretched out arm,
3And his miracles, and his acts, which he did in the midst of Egypt unto Pharaoh the king of Egypt, and unto all his land;
4And what he did unto the army of Egypt, unto their horses, and to their chariots; how he made the water of the Red sea to overflow them as they pursued after you, and how the LORD hath destroyed them unto this day;
5And what he did unto you in the wilderness, until ye came into this place;
6And what he did unto Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, the son of Reuben: how the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their households, and their tents, and all the substance that was in their possession, in the midst of all Israel:
7But your eyes have seen all the great acts of the LORD which he did.
8Therefore shall ye keep all the commandments which I command you this day, that ye may be strong, and go in and possess the land, whither ye go to possess it;
9And that ye may prolong your days in the land, which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give unto them and to their seed, a land that floweth with milk and honey.
10For the land, whither thou goest in to possess it, is not as the land of Egypt, from whence ye came out, where thou sowedst thy seed, and wateredst it with thy foot, as a garden of herbs:
11But the land, whither ye go to possess it, is a land of hills and valleys, and drinketh water of the rain of heaven:
12A land which the LORD thy God careth for: the eyes of the LORD thy God are always upon it, from the beginning of the year even unto the end of the year.
13And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
14That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil.
15And I will send grass in thy fields for thy cattle, that thou mayest eat and be full.
16Take heed to yourselves, that your heart be not deceived, and ye turn aside, and serve other gods, and worship them;
17And then the LORD's wrath be kindled against you, and he shut up the heaven, that there be no rain, and that the land yield not her fruit; and lest ye perish quickly from off the good land which the LORD giveth you.
18Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
20And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates:
21That your days may be multiplied, and the days of your children, in the land which the LORD sware unto your fathers to give them, as the days of heaven upon the earth.
22For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
23Then will the LORD drive out all these nations from before you, and ye shall possess greater nations and mightier than yourselves.
24Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be.
25There shall no man be able to stand before you: for the LORD your God shall lay the fear of you and the dread of you upon all the land that ye shall tread upon, as he hath said unto you.
26Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
27A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
28And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
29And it shall come to pass, when the LORD thy God hath brought thee in unto the land whither thou goest to possess it, that thou shalt put the blessing upon mount Gerizim, and the curse upon mount Ebal.
30Are they not on the other side Jordan, by the way where the sun goeth down, in the land of the Canaanites, which dwell in the champaign over against Gilgal, beside the plains of Moreh?
31For ye shall pass over Jordan to go in to possess the land which the LORD your God giveth you, and ye shall possess it, and dwell therein.
32And ye shall observe to do all the statutes and judgments which I set before you this day.

 

[gracechick]

So if it is "upon" instead of "in" in those Revelation verses, what is the significance of that?

Not nitpicking here, but upon makes me think tattoo while in would be related more to an implant.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Why would God condemn people for having a chip implanted? Yes, I know "THE BIBLE SEZ!", but it seems sort of an odd thing to get that worked up about.

I don't like the idea for invasion of privacy reasons, but I can't quite bring myself to believe that there is anything satanic about it.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Not nitpicking here, but upon makes me think tattoo while in would be related more to an implant.

That is what I was thinking after looking up the greek in those verses

http://www.christianforums.com/t7404880-4/#post53047643

 

[gracechick]

Interesting. All this technology since the concentration camps of WWll and the tattoo could still be a possibility.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
The Greekmeister has arrived
Sounds more like a tatoo or brand........

Interesting. All this technology since the concentration camps of WWll and the tattoo could still be a possibility.

Makes me think of this old Chuck Connors series......

YouTube - Branded

 

[trialbyfire]

Why would God condemn people for having a chip implanted? Yes, I know "THE BIBLE SEZ!", but it seems sort of an odd thing to get that worked up about.

I don't like the idea for invasion of privacy reasons, but I can't quite bring myself to believe that there is anything satanic about it.

Ezekiel 9 describes God marking those who belong to him. The fact that satan will do the same thing means that those who choose satan make themselves enemies of God.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Well then doesn't that rather require the person being marked for satan as actually knowing thats what's happening? Most of the hysteria surrounding chips and such seem to be incensed that people will be FORCED to take them and that they'll be marked for Satan by stealth.

If you chose Satan, I don't think it matters if you are marked or not. If you choose God, then it shouldn;t matter how many chips you have implanted, right?

 

[trialbyfire]

Well then doesn't that rather require the person being marked for satan as actually knowing thats what's happening? Most of the hysteria surrounding chips and such seem to be incensed that people will be FORCED to take them and that they'll be marked for Satan by stealth.

If you chose Satan, I don't think it matters if you are marked or not. If you choose God, then it shouldn;t matter how many chips you have implanted, right?

It won't be by stealth.

The Bible tells us that those who take/accept the mark of the beast will be allowed to buy and sell. It says that those who take/accept the mark of the beast will be symbolically worshipping it/him. It says that those who refuse the mark will be killed.

Someone said earlier something about political, educational, religious, and financial. Notice how the mark takes in all four of those aspects of control over the population.

Buying/selling is the financial aspect.
Worshipping is the political and religious and even educational aspect.

When the Bible says a person can't buy or sell unless they have the mark, carry that to it's end. Buying and selling also means food, clothing, shelter, jobs. Think of the amount of control the beast will have over the lives of humanity that people cannot buy or sell unless they take a mark.

When the Bible says that a person is worshipping the beast when they accept the mark, what does that mean? It means a conscious choice against God and in favor of the beast, so that people actually worship it/him as God. In this county, when we look around, it's not difficult to see how that could be implemented - worship of a leader. ("pledging to be a servant" to the leader) That is worship. Schoolchildren singing songs of praise and adoration to a leader is worship. Believing that the leader can save the world and solve the world's problems is worship.

Those who refuse the mark of the beast will be killed. That means that people have to know and understand what acceptance/rejection of the mark means and the consequences of it.

Imagine a global government has taken over the world and instituted a global financial system. A leader has been appointed who actually claims to be God. Worship of him and the global system is mandatory. If you want to be a part of it (buy/sell/trade), you have to accept a mark. Those who refuse are imprisoned and killed.

The provision in the Senate health care bill seeks to imprison people who do not get health care. If they are so bold as to put imprisonment in a health care bill (do what we say or else go to prison), it's not a big leap to "do what we say or else die or go to prison".

Those who refuse to "obey" the government are considered enemies of the state, lawbreakers, criminals, extremists, terrorists, and will be treated as such.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I think you're jumping at shadows.