Good reason to be an atheist?(moved from Christian Appologetics)

[CoderHead]

God's presence is so obvious in the intricacies of the way the world operates. God putting leaves on the trees [...]

Except that those leaves go on to shade other, smaller plants that need sunlight to survive, killing them off. And then other plants like ivy and, perhaps even bigger trees, choke out those trees. And if God's hand was guiding the placement of the leaves on these trees, then He'd certainly see to it that they were all watered appropriately. But then you haven't accounted for droughts and desert conditions. Then you have to talk about parasitic insects and grubs that kill massive swaths of vegetation.

Nature is beautiful and awesome, I'll give you that. But it's also chaotic and ugly. I'm not trying to spur a debate, but you have to be able to see that your "putting leaves in the perfect place" argument is based solely in emotion and (possibly purposeful) blindness to the bigger picture - even from casual observation.

 

[Mobiosity]

Potato potahto

 

[PT Calvinist]

A simple question: What potential do you see in a seed?

 

[Isambard]

Because you said so. Thanks.

I was wondering where you stole your "arguments" from. The vid is epic fail btw for the reasons I've stated when addressing your usage of the same "arguments".

The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy" or "quote mining", is a logical fallacy and type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.[1]
Fallacy of quoting out of context - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moron is a controversial psychology term to define mental retardation. Ignorance on the other hand means the condition of being uneducated, lacking knowledge or information. The latter can be fixed.

mo·ron (môr

n

, m

r

-)
n. 1. A stupid person; a dolt.

Moron - definition of Moron by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

You called a person you didn't know names,

lol really? Name me one video where Cameron doesn't spew ignorance. I've actually sat threw hours of "arguments", have you?

the rules, now by trying to shift the topic, you are attempting to get away with it. Honestly, you killed all your credibility.

Rather ironic given that you originally claimed I was comitting an ad hom, and now have shifted to saying I lose credibility for being mean. Me thinks you be projecting.

 

[Eudaimonist]

A simple question: What potential do you see in a seed?

A simple question, but not a simple issue.

Potentials may be thought of as implications of powers. The power of a seed is to grow and mature, given beneficial conditions. Its potential is to thrive as whatever sort of plant it is.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[PT Calvinist]

A simple question, but not a simple issue.

Potentials may be thought of as implications of powers. The power of a seed is to grow and mature, given beneficial conditions. Its potential is to thrive as whatever sort of plant it is.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Could then....a seed....Being one....form many? Thus becoming a Forest?

 

[Danhalen]

I know, it's an old OP, but these questions always get my goat.

I was an atheist when I was young. As far as I can remember, I did not have a good reason to be an atheist. Now, this question is becoming more puzzling to me than ever. Why would people want to be an atheist?

Desire has nothing to do with being an atheist. I don't want to not believe deities exist. I simply cannot believe deities exist, so I'm an atheist.

One does not have to be a Christian. But to my experience, one "should" have a religious belief.

Wha...? There's a moral imperative to have a religious belief? That makes no sense to me.

So, if you are an atheist, I would like to hear (and seriously consider) your reasons. I am not trying to debate you, but trying to understand you by a few questions.

So, please give me your best reasons of being an atheist. You may start with the most convincing one.

I have one reason for being an atheist: I have no reason to believe deities exist.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Could then....a seed....Being one....form many? Thus becoming a Forest?

Only if it can reproduce.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

The practice of quoting out of context, sometimes referred to as "contextomy" or "quote mining", is a logical fallacy and type of false attribution in which a passage is removed from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.[1]
Fallacy of quoting out of context - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Only your opinions were reflected by your circular reasoning in that post and what I saw necessary was quoted. So quoting me the Wiki entry doesn't hold any water as I didn't purposely quoted you off-context. Nice try though.

mo·ron (môr

n

, m

r

-)
n. 1. A stupid person; a dolt.

Moron - definition of Moron by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

Wow what happened to Wiki now? I guess we all go selective when cornered. Mighty atheists included.

lol really? Name me one video where Cameron doesn't spew ignorance. I've actually sat threw hours of "arguments", have you?

I was smarter than that. Pity on you. You took him seriously, you thought he represented Christianity maybe. Shame! He is a good kid though.

Rather ironic given that you originally claimed I was comitting an ad hom, and now have shifted to saying I lose credibility for being mean. Me thinks you be projecting.

Still attempting to shift the topic from your issue ... it is quite dishonest at this point... Why did you call Cameron a moron? Call him "ignorant" why moron?

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

True, but it isn't obvious that this start has to be a God.


eudaimonia,

Mark

What if it is obvious and you refuse to see it? That is a possibility...

 

[Isambard]

Only your opinions were reflected by your circular reasoning in that post and what I saw necessary was quoted. So quoting me the Wiki entry doesn't hold any water as I didn't purposely quoted you off-context. Nice try though.

Now is the part I ask you quote which of my arguments was circular and you provide the evidence.

Wow what happened to Wiki now? I guess we all go selective when cornered. Mighty atheists included.

As you wish

"Moron (psychology), disused term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12, slang for a stupid person "
Moron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

was smarter than that. Pity on you. You took him seriously, you thought he represented Christianity maybe. Shame! He is a good kid though.

???
Where did I say, or even imply this? I believe your persecution complex is hanging out.

Still attempting to shift the topic from your issue ... it is quite dishonest at this point... Why did you call Cameron a moron? Call him "ignorant" why moron?

If you actually bothered to read the entire article on the wiki page about the word moron, you would've answered your own question by now. its your own selective reading that is holding you back.

Edit: I'm feeling kind right now so I'll hlp you out

Noun
Singular
moron
Plural
morons

moron (plural morons)

1. (obsolete) A person of borderline intelligence in the former classification of mental retardation, having of an intelligence quotient of 50-69.
2. (informal) A person who makes uncool, unfunny, uninteresting, or irrelevant (see lame) attempts to impress others and draw attention to himself, especially in a flawed attempt to act like someone else.

[edit] Usage notes

Though originally a psychological, clinical, and medical term, it is currently used as a pejorative term against someone of low intelligence, or even as just a general pejorative. Current term for having an IQ between 50 and 69 is mild mental retardation.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/moron

Remember, read the whole thing. That's key

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Now is the part I ask you quote which of my arguments was circular and you provide the evidence.

The vid is epic fail btw

Circular reasoning.

for the reasons I've stated when addressing your usage of the same "arguments".

Your opinions.

As you wish

"Moron (psychology), disused term for a person with a mental age between 8 and 12, slang for a stupid person "
Moron - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is classic. The link actually starts like; Moron is a controversial term once used in psychology to denote a category of mental retardation.

But the guy chooses to "quote" which fits the agenda. Then turns around and lectures me about "contextomy" What a character!

???
Where did I say, or even imply this? I believe your persecution complex is hanging out.

If I considered myself within the group of likes of Cameron, your assumption would have had some merit. You implied your great interest when you said you sat hours watching his ignorance. I must admit I forgot to add a "?" after I said "maybe" so... whatever.

If you actually bothered to read the entire article on the wiki page about the word moron, you would've answered your own question by now. its your own selective reading that is holding you back.

Edit: I'm feeling kind right now so I'll hlp you out

Noun
Singular
moron
Plural
morons

moron (plural morons)

1. (obsolete) A person of borderline intelligence in the former classification of mental retardation, having of an intelligence quotient of 50-69.
2. (informal) A person who makes uncool, unfunny, uninteresting, or irrelevant (see lame) attempts to impress others and draw attention to himself, especially in a flawed attempt to act like someone else.

[edit] Usage notes

Though originally a psychological, clinical, and medical term, it is currently used as a pejorative term against someone of low intelligence, or even as just a general pejorative. Current term for having an IQ between 50 and 69 is mild mental retardation.
moron - Wiktionary

Remember, read the whole thing. That's key

Still cheap BS. Let's ignore your desperate attempts to avoid the question by detailing this nonsense, what definition actually defines Cameron's ignorance? Do you have proof of his "low intelligence"? Somehow you cry out that people should understand your "moron" accusation with the number 2, "informal" definition, which you searched for, linked and placed in context yourself, God knows out of ten thousand dictionaries, so how does your opinion make Cameron a moron? Before worrying about being kind to me, be a man and admit what you did was uncalled for.

 

[Isambard]

Circular reasoning.
Your opinions.

Im going to take a wild stab here and say you havent actually bothered to read through my (many) replies to WingsOfEagle when he started quoting Slick verbatim.

This is classic. The link actually starts like; Moron is a controversial term once used in psychology to denote a category of mental retardation.

But the guy chooses to "quote" which fits the agenda. Then turns around and lectures me about "contextomy" What a character!

I guess the "once used" didn't tip you off eh? But your absolutely right, I'm just so evil using words by their modern usage.

If I considered myself within the group of likes of Cameron, your assumption would have had some merit. You implied your great interest when you said you sat hours watching his ignorance. I must admit I forgot to add a "?" after I said "maybe" so... whatever.

I was smarter than that. Pity on you. You took him seriously, you thought he represented Christianity maybe. Shame! He is a good kid though.

I take it the christian icon beside your name is decortive then?

Still cheap BS. Let's ignore your desperate attempts to avoid the question by detailing this nonsense,

I've answered your question (repeatedly). You are just choosing to ignore the reply to save face.

what definition actually defines Cameron's ignorance? Do you have proof of his "low intelligence"?

YouTube - Kirk Cameron And Bananas

Somehow you cry out that people should understand your "moron" accusation with the number 2, "informal" definition, which you searched for, linked and placed in context yourself, God knows out of ten thousand dictionaries,

Give me a number of dictionaries entries you'd like, and I'll demonstrate my usage was correct. That said, I would've figured the words "once used" in your own source, or "obselete" in front of my source wouldve tipped you off as to the proper modern usage of the word. Guess not.

so how does your opinion make Cameron a moron? Before worrying about being kind to me, be a man and admit what you did was uncalled for.

See Banana vid. Now its your turn to demonstrate how he is not a moron.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Im going to take a wild stab here and say you havent actually bothered to read through my (many) replies to WingsOfEagle when he started quoting Slick verbatim.

Meaning I should have wasted more of my time on your opinions and circular reasoning?

I guess the "once used" didn't tip you off eh? But your absolutely right, I'm just so evil using words by their modern usage.

No, you are not evil, just dishonest. Why did you call Cameron a moron? Because the phsychological term doesn't apply in some circles? We established that you don't have proof that he is mentally retarded, which is a psychological condition. You could have said lame, but you said moron. Pretty much you wanted to insult the guy and you can't admit to it. Now we are running in your semantics circles. How pathetic.

I take it the christian icon beside your name is decortive then?

Too bad you don't know the depths of our history and schisms.

I've answered your question (repeatedly). You are just choosing to ignore the reply to save face.

The replies are pretty much selective dictionary quotations, which you ignored the Wiki's main entry, but expect me to go with what you wish it means "(informal) A person who makes uncool, unfunny, uninteresting, or irrelevant (see lame) attempts to impress others and draw attention to himself, especially in a flawed attempt to act like someone else." Who is trying to save face?

YouTube - Kirk Cameron And Bananas

You mean Ray Comfort?

Give me a number of dictionaries entries you'd like, and I'll demonstrate my usage was correct.

Wiki main entry that goes "Moron is a controversial term once used in psychology" Demonstrate that Kirk Cameron fits this definition. Oh sorry it is obsolete.

That said, I would've figured the words "once used" in your own source, or "obselete" in front of my source wouldve tipped you off as to the proper modern usage of the word. Guess not.

The word could simply be not in use by the psychological community but this doesn't change its given meaning. That is your justification?

See Banana vid. Now its your turn to demonstrate how he is not a moron.

All Cameron says is an "aah" at the end of the video. Stop wasting my time with this childish nonsense. Again we departed from the main issue of your ad-hom.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

So you want to make a claim, but not provide the citations or evidence eh? How very academic of you

What is obvious doesn't need evidence. You share the same attitude regarding Cameron. Avoid double standards.

Because he is?

So it is OK to insult him because he is ignorant of your views. Nice.

It doesn't apply in any circles. Do you need me to explain to you what obsolete means as well?

I have asked a couple soldiers in my unit what moron meant to them. Results were always "derogatory"! From "stupid" to "retarded". So it still applies in daily life. The word has a history. What you do is tap-dancing around your insult. Quite dishonest.

No need to project your failure of language onto me. Simply ask your friendly neighbourhood etymologist or philologist about how word usage changes.

Again, it must be OK to insult him because he is ignorant of your views.

What a lovely red herring you have.

If you are not going to like the answers, don't ask the questions. My answer directly addressed your hasty generalization. Although, I am not going to sink and call someone names because he doesn't know why I categorize myself in a different group than evangelical Kirk Cameron.

Give me a single dictionary that doesn't have my definition. Yes I know, you'll have to actually back up what your saying with facts *hiss*, but trust me, it'll be a good excersize for you .

Spend some effort and spell right. It matters to me. Still, your circular arguments doesn't address the issue how you justify yourself in insulting someone with a derogatory term.

Which part? That its no longer in usage, or that it agrees with my colloquial use?

Let me backpedal it for you, why did you insult the guy?

It still seems like you what with trying to fit an obselete specialized definition of a word.

What? Come again?

Wanna take a stab at who is beside him?

And? What is his function? Forcing Ray to advertise silly arguments? Focus dude!

The word isn't used in the psychological community.

That must be why you insulted him, then?

...so they've been partners for years, and the "banana test" has been a part of their ministry for awhile now...you'd think Cameron would've objected no? But hey there are plenty of examples. Type in "Crockaduck" in youtube if you'd like some direct stupidity.

In my view, clearly, whether they know it or not, ignorance is their excuse. What is your excuse to insult Cameron with a derogatory remark?

And the projecting continues...

Wish it was, as the same rate your tap-dancing...

 

[Isambard]

What is obvious doesn't need evidence. You share the same attitude regarding Cameron. Avoid double standards.

Nice dodge. I actually provided links. Now stop quote-mining.

So it is OK to insult him because he is ignorant of your views. Nice.

Ignorant of reality. Despite this, he feels he's qualified to lecture others about subjects he knows nothing of. Being corrected multiple times does nothing to dissaude him.

I have asked a couple soldiers in my unit what moron meant to them. Results were always "derogatory"! From "stupid" to "retarded". So it still applies in daily life. The word has a history. What you do is tap-dancing around your insult. Quite dishonest.

Ad populum. Your list of fallacies grows with your post count. Here's a hint. Try actually talking/citing someone qualified in the area of discussion.

Again, it must be OK to insult him because he is ignorant of your views.

See above.

If you are not going to like the answers, don't ask the questions. My answer directly addressed your hasty generalization. Although, I am not going to sink and call someone names because he doesn't know why I categorize myself in a different group than evangelical Kirk Cameron.

your answer was completely irrelevant to what I asked you. You implied I was attacking christianity. I refuted this. You replied by claiming I'm ignorant of church history. Now want to stop dodging and bac up your assertion, or will eat your words?

Spend some effort and spell right. It matters to me. Still, your circular arguments doesn't address the issue how you justify yourself in insulting someone with a derogatory term.

Ironic hilarity aside (you've misspelled words in your previous postsm not to mention your second sentence is grammatically incorrect), I actually posted reasons as to why he's a moron (which you conveniently keep forgetting). You however, have yet to be able to back wha you're saying. I asked you to cite evidence, and you seem to have an almost phobic fear of providing any.

What? Come again?

"It still seems like you are the one trying to fit an obselete specialized definition of a word. But hey, keep going. What do dictionaries and encyclopedias know anyways right?"

Fixed

And? What is his function? Forcing Ray to advertise silly arguments? Focus dude!

He's made his own moronic statements, but I see you decided to ignore the whole "Crocaduck" argument as you haven't addressed it in the least.

That must be why you insulted him, then?

*Sigh*
This reply doesn't even make sense in relation to what you quoted.

In my view, clearly, whether they know it or not, ignorance is their excuse. What is your excuse to insult Cameron with a derogatory remark?

As stated above, ignorance is fine, will-full ignorance is not. This is especially true when you go out and then try to convert others to will-full ignorance.

Wish it was, as the same rate your tap-dancing...

 

[newbeliever02072005]

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