Why Not Catholic?

[Giantsbran1227]

Preety straightforward. What are some reasons that you guys are not Catholic and do not believe in the Catholic church. I am debating what church I want to belong too and would love to hear some input from you lutherans. God Bless.

 

[Zoness]

Well I am not formally a member of any Lutheran church but my theology lines up with them pretty well, in fact I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and here is why I left:

* I could never reconcile the clearly unbiblical ideas of venerating Mary and the Saints
* The idea that the Pope is somehow Peter
* The general mentality that the RCC is the only way to salvation, even though the church rejects that it is still widely believed.
* My family was lukewarm anyways, just going through the motions.

That is simply my reasoning, I wouldn't make decisions on what I have to say or anyone else does. Pray on the matter and try both out and see where you can honestly see yourself serving God the best.

 

[DaRev]

We are indeed catholic. And we do indeed confess in the creeds "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church."

 

[Tofferer]

I suppose one could easily ask the same of other denominations. Why or why not? Much of it has to be based upon what one already believes about scripture. More you believe that it should be taken literally, the more conservative a church you are likely to attend.

I was baptized at Trinity Lutheran LCA in May 1981. That church is now the synod office for the SouthWest Washington Synod of the ELCA. The formation of the ELCA repulsed my grandparents, so we left. In 1996 I began going to church again, this time it was a Baptist church. However, I held certain beliefs that were more inline with Catholicism. I tried hard to be a good Baptist, believing in the pretrib rapture, a literal millenial kingdom and all of that. However, certain issues kept surfacing. Here is a partial list:

Why did Peter and Paul baptize whole families, possibly including infants, and yet we only baptize believers?

Where in scripture can I find this "age of accountability" thing?

How can every eye see him at the last trumpet if that is only for believers?

I never had a radical conversion experience, why?

Why did Jesus say "this is my body, this is my blood" unless he literally meant it?

What if the millenium isn't a literal event?

It was questions like this that began to get me in trouble when I started to attend Scott Memorial in San Diego. Those same questions continued to plague me when I returned to Washington and started attending Parkland Christian. It was a Lutheran pastor that finally was able to help me to answer my questions. He gave me several references to the Book of Corcord and that pointed directly to scripture. Not only could I see why I would not do well in the RC church, I found why I was struggling in the other churches too. My wife and I joined an ELCA church, but found issues in the ELCA that we felt violated scripture. We then joined LCMC, but issues at the particular LCMC church we attended (coupled with outrageous gas prices) forced us to leave there. Now we are members of a local LCMS church and are quite happy there.

 

[RadMan]

I'm too lazy to do all those good works to get me into heaven and I'm too much of a male chauvinist to venerate a woman. I'm also a rebel against a higher authority than myself unless it is God. The pope doesn't count. I look at what other people write and say through the eyes of the Bible and not the other way around.

 

[filosofer]

We are indeed catholic. And we do indeed confess in the creeds "We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church."

Note that "one holy catholic and apostolic Church" does NOT equal the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[Giantsbran1227]

My main fear is what if we are wrong...

The catholic church has been around since the beginning of Christianity. Dosent that mean its the right one even if we might not agree with it. I fear that if I dont join the catholic church I will not be saved, but there are many disagreements I have with the church.

 

[Edial]

My main fear is what if we are wrong...

The catholic church has been around since the beginning of Christianity. Dosent that mean its the right one even if we might not agree with it. I fear that if I dont join the catholic church I will not be saved, but there are many disagreements I have with the church.

If I were you I would not worry that much.

The best the Catholics are taught to look forwards to when they die ... is to the flames of Purgatory.
They also teach that the extremely few holy Catholics should bypass it (you and I will definitely not qualify), but 99 point whatever percent of the rest (including the popes) - Purgatorium.

Doesn't sound like Good News of Jesus Christ.
Instead of looking FORWARDS to dying and being with our Savior - one is in fear of flames.

And Purgatory is not even in the Bible.

Thanks,
Ed

 

[RedneckLutheran]

I can't kneel...

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I can't kneel...

We kneel. And a few of us make the sign of the cross too.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

My main fear is what if we are wrong...

The catholic church has been around since the beginning of Christianity. Dosent that mean its the right one even if we might not agree with it. I fear that if I dont join the catholic church I will not be saved, but there are many disagreements I have with the church.

The true Church is Christ's alone. It is comprised of all who have faith in Christ regardless of denomination; those living, and those who have died and are with our Lord in Heaven. It will be added to by all who come to faith in Christ, those now living, and those yet to be born.

This is the "one Holy catholic and Apostolic Church", and the "Cummunion of the Saints."

It is faith alone in Christ alone, through God's grace alone which saves us, not a Pope, College of Cardinals, Magesterium, or a "physical" Apostolic succession.

You, by your faith may already be a member of this "universal" Church. You just don't have the letter "L" (for Lutheran not looser that is) stamped on your forehead yet!

Mark

 

[filosofer]

My main fear is what if we are wrong...

Do you study the Scriptures? If not, why not?

What is the central teaching of Scripture? Justification by grace (alone) through faith (alone) in Christ (alone). Since that is what Scripture clearly teaches, that is what we believe.

No need to fear.

The catholic church has been around since the beginning of Christianity. Dosent that mean its the right one even if we might not agree with it. I fear that if I dont join the catholic church I will not be saved, but there are many disagreements I have with the church.

While the "catholic church" has been around since the beginning, it is the Christian Church, and it is the right one. But the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) has not been around since the beginning, and it is not right. At the Council of Trent, the RCC declared that if anyone believed that a person is justified by grace through faith alone, then that person is eternally condemned. No council or pope has ever rescinded that statement. So who is right? Scripture or the RCC? They both can't be right.

I would encourage you to read the Book of Concord. It clearly lays out that what we believe, teach, confess is the same as what the "catholic church" (not the RCC) has always taught.

 

[Tofferer]

It is true, there is really only one church. The members of that church come from all walks of life. Some are mechanics. Some are lawyers. Some are chefs. Some are soldiers. Some are baptists. Some are lutherans. Some are eastern orthodox. However, they all have this one thing in common, faith in Christ alone. It is not what type of church or what your job is that saves you. It is only your faith in Christ Jesus and that faith is a gift from God. You can't choose it, but you could reject it. Yet, if you accept God's gift, you will become part of the one true church which belongs solely to Christ Jesus.

 

[Giantsbran1227]

Thanks guys. All your responses helped clear my head. I will be looking at some form of protestant church to join.

 

[filosofer]

Thanks guys. All your responses helped clear my head. I will be looking at some form of protestant church to join.

I would encourage you to be as discerning with regard to Protestant churches as to RCC. While they use some of the same words, they do not always reflect what Scripture teaches. There is as much difference between RCC and Lutheran as there is between Protestant and Lutheran.

God's blessings on your search.

 

[Giantsbran1227]

Isnt lutheran a division of the protestant faith?

 

[DaRev]

Isnt lutheran a division of the protestant faith?

Lutherans do not consider themselves "protestant" since the Lutheran Church holds, teaches and confesses what the universal (catholic) Church has always held, taught and confessed. We believe that "protestants" have incorporated innovative teachings into the Church catholic, as has the RCC, that goes against both Scripture and the catholic faith (which is derived and normed solely from Scripture). Lutherans maintain the catholic faith because it is truly Scriptural.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

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I "entered" Lutheranism through Catholicism....


I think of it as, in some ways, "simple Catholicism."


My "issues" with Catholicism was MOSTLY:

1). Ecclesiology: That the RCC is essentially the church. I find this HUGE emphasis on self, individualism and institutionalism not only unbiblical and unwise - but it's largely just an evasion of accountability and basis for power-oriented institutionalism.

2) Epistemology: Placing the teachings of self as the final Rule for the teachings of self is circular, worthless and dangerous.

3) Docility: CCC #87 kept ringing in my hear. I realized that while I agreed with Catholicism FAR MORE than nearly all the Catholics I knew, I was what my Deacon called, "A Protestant Hiding in the Church" and thus not Catholic. I had the integrity to thus leave.


Now, certainly a FACTOR here is that during most of the years I was in the RCC, I was ALSO being taught theology by my father. Our "textbook" for this was a pretty intense 3 vol. set of theology books written by Francis Pieper called "Christian Dogmatics." It's Lutheran and I think still used in conservative Lutheran seminaries to train pastors. Dad and I spent 3 solid years making our way through those 3 books. My dad is not Lutheran, but he has a huge respect for Lutheran theology and since I had been taught this perspective since I was in kindergarten (I was homeschooled; my mother did all my instruction until I was about 12, then Dad took over my religion and social studies stuff), and mom used Concordia (Lutheran) stuff designed for Lutheran schools for religion; not wanting to "mix" things, dad continued by using Lutheran theology stuff. So, while I was learning Catholic theology in my Catholic parish, I was learning Lutheran theology from my Dad. I saw the HUGE similarities, but also the ways they differ - it's often more in attitude than details, often more in the RCC making dogmas that Lutherans don't. I remember that Pieper often seemed to have more "problems" with Calvinism than "the papists" (lol).



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah





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[MarkRohfrietsch]

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I remember that Pieper often seemed to have more "problems" with Calvinism than "the papists" (lol).



Thank you.


Pax


- Josiah





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Josiah,

I may be wrong, but I believe that Luther also wrote somewhere that he would sooner drink Christ's blood with the Pope, than wine with Zwingli.

 

[synger]

My husband (from Baptist roots) sometimes chuckles at me, because so many of my practices seem so Roman Catholic to him. I cross myself. I chant. I pray using beads. I like "smells and bells". I am attentive to the changing calendar of the Church. Etc.

But though I have studied some Roman Catholic doctrine, I could not bring myself to accept their interpretations on a number of crucial issues. Maybe it's my Reformed background, but I believe that justification by faith alone is a CORNERSTONE of Scripture. Not faith and works. Not faith and Church membership. Not faith and tradition. Not faith and reason. Not faith and emotion.

Faith alone.

That, and there are a couple other doctrinal issues I could not accept as Scriptural, like veneration of the saints, seven sacraments rather than the two Christ gave us, and the Roman Catholic ecclesiology.