• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Is Everybody going to heaven?

Will everyone go to heaven?

  • Yes: Hell does not exist

  • Yes: Hell does exist but it is not permenant (God will rehab every soul)

  • No:There is a literal hell and those who go there never come back

  • I don't have an opinion / undecided


Results are only viewable after voting.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Moriah_Conquering_Wind

Well-Known Member
Mar 6, 2006
23,327
2,234
✟34,174.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Thanks for your input and strong support of your position. Oddly, the questions still stand and in large part they have not been answered to my satisfaction. I put the prayer to the Lord in this manner "Lord, this is my complaint. Show me the truth and reveal to me how this can be so." I put that out and within minutes began to receive spiritual information and I know the answer is there. I do not know if this works the same for everyone else. But I always receive an "assurance" in the spirit first, and then over time as I inspect the scriptures the assurance is clothed with words and logic. I know I have the answer. I am so looking forward to that truth floating up within my spirit as the word begins to clothe that belief.
Dids
That's an interesting way for God to lead and teach you Dids.
It has found in Moriah's life it often gets assurances in the spirit as you say, when the answer will not be forthcoming anytime soon! :D
When God has something BIG to teach He doesn't rely on Q&A alone ... He manifests it in Moriah's life, sometimes spanning years to unfold the entire reality of the matter. He puts Moriah smack in the middle of it and it has to walk through and experience the thing itself fully and completely. Sometimes these can be short things -- a few days to turn around a simple Romans 2:1 matter for example ... a lifetime (quite literally) to embrace the Reconciliation. It did NOT come overnight, and Moriah resisted it for many years thinking it would surely be an error to embrace it. But the more it study to know Him the more evident it became. Though it still will admit it bes troubled over everything on account of its condition ... if it could get free and stay free it would feel so much better about making a definitive statement about anything but as it stands it feels its condition tends to automatically discredit anything it shares spiritually in the eyes of others.
 
Upvote 0

Floatingaxe

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2007
14,757
877
73
Ontario, Canada
✟22,726.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
What part of FREE GIFT do you not understand?

It's only a free gift when one opens one's heart to receive it. Those who refuse the free offer of redemption from sin will have to pay for their own sin with their own lives forever. We who receive the greatest gift of all receive life forever.

What about Jesus atonement for our sin don't you understand? It's for everyone, but He is only a personal Saviour to those who choose to make Him theirs.

John 3:16 21 says it all...
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him.
18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”



 
Upvote 0
E

enoch son

Guest
It's only a free gift when one opens one's heart to receive it. Those who refuse the free offer of redemption from sin will have to pay for their own sin with their own lives forever. We who receive the greatest gift of all receive life forever.

What about Jesus atonement for our sin don't you understand? It's for everyone, but He is only a personal Saviour to those who choose to make Him theirs.

John 3:16 21 says it all...
16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. 18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son.19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.”
You just put a price on it .:doh:
 
Upvote 0

Rajni

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2007
8,567
3,944
Visit site
✟1,377,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Single
The wicked aren't going to like bowing to the Lord and Saviour because He isn't their Lord and Saviour. ... It won't be in love and personal adoration, that the lost will bow--it will be in utter fear and acquiescence.

I understand that this is your speculation. I'm still waiting for the chapter and verse which definitively states that "every knee will bow in horror, under duress, knowing they've chosen poorly".

So far, in Scripture, the only people who can confess Jesus is Lord are those doing so by the power of the Holy Spirit -- i.e., believers.
copyChkboxOff.gif
Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

copyChkboxOff.gif
1Cr 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
And, as we know, believers don't end up being tossed into the flames.

.


.
 
Upvote 0

Rajni

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2007
8,567
3,944
Visit site
✟1,377,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Single
Let go back to Acts 10; 28 Peter speaking "but God hath shewed me that I should not call ANY man common or unclean". So for you who are calling men sinfull, wicked, doomed etc. are calling God a liar and His Son Jesus a failure.

Good point!
 
Upvote 0

Floatingaxe

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2007
14,757
877
73
Ontario, Canada
✟22,726.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
:holy:
I understand that this is your speculation. I'm still waiting for the chapter and verse which definitively states that "every knee will bow in horror, under duress, knowing they've chosen poorly".

So far, in Scripture, the only people who can confess Jesus is Lord are those doing so by the power of the Holy Spirit -- i.e., believers.
copyChkboxOff.gif
Rom 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

copyChkboxOff.gif
1Cr 12:3 Therefore I tell you that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, "Jesus be cursed," and no one can say, "Jesus is Lord," except by the Holy Spirit.
And, as we know, believers don't end up being tossed into the flames.

.

That's right...not believers. They rejoice in their King. Wicked people don't, but they will kneel all the same, and receive their penalty for not doing it sooner.
 
Upvote 0

Floatingaxe

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2007
14,757
877
73
Ontario, Canada
✟22,726.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
Let go back to Acts 10; 28 Peter speaking "but God hath shewed me that I should not call ANY man common or unclean". So for you who are calling men sinfull, wicked, doomed etc. are calling God a liar and His Son Jesus a failure.


Once again--out of context! LOL!!

As children of the King, we are to judge for righteousness, and for error. So far I'm doing pretty good..No righteousness in Universalism. It is a fabrication.
 
Upvote 0

Rajni

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2007
8,567
3,944
Visit site
✟1,377,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Single
:holy:

That's right...not believers. They rejoice in their King. Wicked people don't, but they will kneel all the same, and receive their penalty for not doing it sooner.

You might want to re-read my previous post. Since no one can confess Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit -- in essence, believers -- those who are doing the kneeling, bowing, and confessing are believers, not wicked people being forced to do it.

Now, do you have chapter and verse as I previously asked you?
.
 
Upvote 0

Floatingaxe

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2007
14,757
877
73
Ontario, Canada
✟22,726.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
There no glory if they have to. They will want to because of the love of God.

No--they won't have a choice. Their knees will buckle in the glorious and holy and mighty presence of THE MOST HIGH GOD, JEHOVAH.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,105
114,202
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
Originally Posted by brinny
It is what God, the Alpha and the Omega, the Holy One, the Father of Lights said Himself. He is holy. No one is righteous. Not one. That's why the chasm developed in the Garden of Eden. That's why He no longer walked with His creation in the cool of the day, in a garden, and why they were cast out and why they surely were accursed and were to die.

There is a Remedy for this deadly malady...this eternal separation from our Abba....let those who have ears hear...it is only through Jesus the Christ, the only begotten Son of the living God, the God of the living. It is only in realizing the enormity of our sin, and that we assuredly deserve damnation, and accept the price Jesus the Christ paid for our sins, thus cleansing us, that we will not be condemned to damnation, and only that. Otherwise we are left to our own devices. In essence, God says "As you wish."

There's nothing to fear in watching the video.....is there?


Not one ver. only the words of man and not God.

The video is chock full of verses from the Bible. The words I posted are from what God Himself declares in His Word. But of course you already know that, do you not, brother in Christ?...in Genesis, the fall of man, the putting out of man from the Garden of Eden, the entering into the scene of death, destruction, pain, toil, and no more walks in the garden in the cool of the day with Abba. Separation had commenced. Death was as sure as man turning back to the dust from whence he came upon dying.....and literally, man became akin to 'dead men walking' because it was only a matter of time before death would claim them....the curse was upon man. Mankind had trespassed and became accursed.

Yet the story was not over. A loving Creator wants His own and had a plan. It reminds me of Aslan in 'The Chronicles of Narnia. He was killed. The enemy thought surely they had won and mankind was doomed. However a little known provision was written in to the law...it was that, if a perfectly innocent one was taken in the stead of mankind, time itself would do a tailspin and all curses would wind backwards and be as if there were none. Anyone who loved the One sacrificed, and was ransomed, was innocent, as if the curse had not occurred...Aslan dying, represented a perfect sacrifice, just as Jesus the Christ does. He is the Defender of those who the enemy will attempt to accuse at the Great Judgement...but those Who have been grafted into the family of God have a Defender Extraordinaire, and He says to get to them, you gotta go through me...well now that's not possible....because the enemy must also follow the law...and the law says God's children, the ones Jesus is defending are innocent. And that is because when God sees us, He sees Jesus' righteousness.

Now those that are not in the family of God, are not God's children because they had no intention of becoming a new creature through the blood sacrifice of Jesus the Christ, and are entirely on their own in that court room, against the accuser. Jesus will say to them to go away from Him for He never knew them. We are compared to sheep and goats.

Of course you already know this, brother in Christ. For it is written. God's Word never returns to Him void. Those who have ears, listen. As it says in proverbs, wisdom crieth out from the house tops, from the market place, crying out to those headed for destruction.

And so it does. Doesn't it?

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live" -Deuteronomy 30:19
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Floatingaxe

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2007
14,757
877
73
Ontario, Canada
✟22,726.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
You might want to re-read my previous post. Since no one can confess Jesus is Lord without the Holy Spirit -- in essence, believers -- those who are doing the kneeling, bowing, and confessing are believers, not wicked people being forced to do it.

.

That doesn't refer to Judgment Day. That provision for faith in one's heart is no longer available at that time.

Believers do not stand before the Judgment Throne. Believers will have already undergone their accounting 1000 years earlier. ( I have no idea how many times I have said that and it is ignored!)

The GWT Judgment is for the wicked. No one will be confessing, and no one will be receiving mercy.
 
Upvote 0

Rajni

☯ Ego ad Eum pertinent ☯
Site Supporter
Dec 26, 2007
8,567
3,944
Visit site
✟1,377,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Unorthodox
Marital Status
Single
That doesn't refer to Judgment Day. That provision for faith in one's heart is no longer available at that time.
Where does it say that it is no longer available?

Believers do not stand before the Judgment Throne. Believers will have already undergone their accounting 1000 years earlier. ( I have no idea how many times I have said that and it is ignored!)
From a futurist perspective that sounds about right. Not everyone espouses a futurist eschatology though. But I see where you are coming from here.

The GWT Judgment is for the wicked. No one will be confessing, and no one will be receiving mercy.
I don't know for sure about that. Every knee will bow and every tongue everywhere will confess, so, again, I don't see any exceptions to that rule.


.
 
Upvote 0
H

HEisGoodalways

Guest
THE GOOD SHEPHERD
To tell me, that God had, by a predestined plan, so constructed man that he was born, and from all eternity designed to be wicked, and a vessel of wrath, that God Almighty might show His power by sending him to everlasting hell that is the most infernal lie that a man's tongue could utter, or type could print. That my God, the infinitely good and holy God, was the predestinator, and creator of multitudes of harlots, whoremongers, thieves, murderers, liars, to let them grow up, and to live and lust and die, and then glorify Himself by torturing them in eternal hell! Horrible! I tell you that all the divines that ever hatched a cocatrice egg could never make me swallow that.

Write it between your eyes and never forget it. The Good Shepherd who came from heaven, and gave His life, will seek, and seek, and seek, and save, and save, and save, until He has brought all men back to God. This is the work of the Redeemer and the redeemed. I desire to make this perfectly clear, because it is necessary to do so. When Jesus came He sought for sinners, wherever Satan had gone. He sent His disciples into the world to seek even farther for them. He seeks for sinners still. And He shall seek for them throughout ages yet unborn. The Good Shepherd will seek them until He finds them. If He didn't, He wouldn't he the Good Shepherd! He will seek them on earth and in hell. "Where shall I go from Your presence?" the Psalmist asks. That question is unanswered and unanswerable. It has stood upon the page of Scripture for three thousand years, and no one yet of all the myriads that have read it has been able to devise a reply. Heaven says, Not here. Hell says, Nor here. It is not among angels, or demons, or the lost, or in the vast silent spaces of eternity. There is no creature anywhere not manifest to His sight. He who made vultures, able from immense heights to discern the least morsel on the desert floor, has eyes better than they. Then David says, "If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there!" (Ps. 139:8). Thanks be to God that He will seek His lost ones through all the Universe - through all the Earths and all the Hells until He has found and saved them all. He must seek until He finds.

  • "Where are you going Shepherd?
    To find My sheep.
    How far will you go?
    As far as My sheep.
    How far may that be?
    To the world's end.
    How long will you seek it?
    Until I find it.
    When you find it,
    will it come to you?
    No, it will flee from Me.
    Where will it go then?
    To the rocks and the sand. When will it stop?
    When it can run no more.
    What will you do then?
    Carry it home.
Friends, you will never get away from Jesus. Jesus will follow you everywhere and demand your heart's surrender. I am so glad for a Gospel that is coextensive with, and greater than, the devil's work in spirit soul, and body. I am so glad for a Gospel that is not limited to this age, but reaches out to all ages! I am so glad for a Gospel which tells me that God has made a way by which even His banished may return. I am so glad for a Gospel that is not limited to earth, but reaches into the depths of death and hell. I am so glad for a Gospel of Everlasting Hope, of Everlasting expectation, and for the conviction and divine revelation that the miserable and the wicked shall at last be brought to repent of their sin, and to find their God and Father. I should not want to be an elder, or pastor, or leader, of a people that would wish me to preach eternal damnation
 
Upvote 0

Floatingaxe

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2007
14,757
877
73
Ontario, Canada
✟22,726.00
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Conservatives
THE GOOD SHEPHERD
To tell me, that God had, by a predestined plan, so constructed man that he was born, and from all eternity designed to be wicked, and a vessel of wrath, that God Almighty might show His power by sending him to everlasting hell that is the most infernal lie that a man's tongue could utter, or type could print. That my God, the infinitely good and holy God, was the predestinator, and creator of multitudes of harlots, whoremongers, thieves, murderers, liars, to let them grow up, and to live and lust and die, and then glorify Himself by torturing them in eternal hell! Horrible! I tell you that all the divines that ever hatched a cocatrice egg could never make me swallow that.

Write it between your eyes and never forget it. The Good Shepherd who came from heaven, and gave His life, will seek, and seek, and seek, and save, and save, and save, until He has brought all men back to God. This is the work of the Redeemer and the redeemed. I desire to make this perfectly clear, because it is necessary to do so. When Jesus came He sought for sinners, wherever Satan had gone. He sent His disciples into the world to seek even farther for them. He seeks for sinners still. And He shall seek for them throughout ages yet unborn. The Good Shepherd will seek them until He finds them. If He didn't, He wouldn't he the Good Shepherd! He will seek them on earth and in hell. "Where shall I go from Your presence?" the Psalmist asks. That question is unanswered and unanswerable. It has stood upon the page of Scripture for three thousand years, and no one yet of all the myriads that have read it has been able to devise a reply. Heaven says, Not here. Hell says, Nor here. It is not among angels, or demons, or the lost, or in the vast silent spaces of eternity. There is no creature anywhere not manifest to His sight. He who made vultures, able from immense heights to discern the least morsel on the desert floor, has eyes better than they. Then David says, "If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there!" (Ps. 139:8). Thanks be to God that He will seek His lost ones through all the Universe - through all the Earths and all the Hells until He has found and saved them all. He must seek until He finds.

  • "Where are you going Shepherd?
    To find My sheep.
    How far will you go?
    As far as My sheep.
    How far may that be?
    To the world's end.
    How long will you seek it?
    Until I find it.
    When you find it,
    will it come to you?
    No, it will flee from Me.
    Where will it go then?
    To the rocks and the sand. When will it stop?
    When it can run no more.
    What will you do then?
    Carry it home.
Friends, you will never get away from Jesus. Jesus will follow you everywhere and demand your heart's surrender. I am so glad for a Gospel that is coextensive with, and greater than, the devil's work in spirit soul, and body. I am so glad for a Gospel that is not limited to this age, but reaches out to all ages! I am so glad for a Gospel which tells me that God has made a way by which even His banished may return. I am so glad for a Gospel that is not limited to earth, but reaches into the depths of death and hell. I am so glad for a Gospel of Everlasting Hope, of Everlasting expectation, and for the conviction and divine revelation that the miserable and the wicked shall at last be brought to repent of their sin, and to find their God and Father. I should not want to be an elder, or pastor, or leader, of a people that would wish me to preach eternal damnation

Wrong. What you espouse is easy believism, and not truth. Blindfolded to the truth about who God is and what He tells us about Himself, as well has His plan for His Creation is just plain folly.

Pretty words of love, love, love and poetry cannot drown out the reality that God is a just judge and will punish severely all evildoers.
 
Upvote 0

brinny

everlovin' shiner of light in dark places
Site Supporter
Mar 23, 2004
249,105
114,202
✟1,378,064.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Constitution
THE GOOD SHEPHERD
To tell me, that God had, by a predestined plan, so constructed man that he was born, and from all eternity designed to be wicked, and a vessel of wrath, that God Almighty might show His power by sending him to everlasting hell that is the most infernal lie that a man's tongue could utter, or type could print. That my God, the infinitely good and holy God, was the predestinator, and creator of multitudes of harlots, whoremongers, thieves, murderers, liars, to let them grow up, and to live and lust and die, and then glorify Himself by torturing them in eternal hell! Horrible! I tell you that all the divines that ever hatched a cocatrice egg could never make me swallow that.

Write it between your eyes and never forget it. The Good Shepherd who came from heaven, and gave His life, will seek, and seek, and seek, and save, and save, and save, until He has brought all men back to God. This is the work of the Redeemer and the redeemed. I desire to make this perfectly clear, because it is necessary to do so. When Jesus came He sought for sinners, wherever Satan had gone. He sent His disciples into the world to seek even farther for them. He seeks for sinners still. And He shall seek for them throughout ages yet unborn. The Good Shepherd will seek them until He finds them. If He didn't, He wouldn't he the Good Shepherd! He will seek them on earth and in hell. "Where shall I go from Your presence?" the Psalmist asks. That question is unanswered and unanswerable. It has stood upon the page of Scripture for three thousand years, and no one yet of all the myriads that have read it has been able to devise a reply. Heaven says, Not here. Hell says, Nor here. It is not among angels, or demons, or the lost, or in the vast silent spaces of eternity. There is no creature anywhere not manifest to His sight. He who made vultures, able from immense heights to discern the least morsel on the desert floor, has eyes better than they. Then David says, "If I make my bed in hell, behold, You are there!" (Ps. 139:8). Thanks be to God that He will seek His lost ones through all the Universe - through all the Earths and all the Hells until He has found and saved them all. He must seek until He finds.

  • "Where are you going Shepherd?
    To find My sheep.
    How far will you go?
    As far as My sheep.
    How far may that be?
    To the world's end.
    How long will you seek it?
    Until I find it.
    When you find it,
    will it come to you?
    No, it will flee from Me.
    Where will it go then?
    To the rocks and the sand. When will it stop?
    When it can run no more.
    What will you do then?
    Carry it home.
Friends, you will never get away from Jesus. Jesus will follow you everywhere and demand your heart's surrender. I am so glad for a Gospel that is coextensive with, and greater than, the devil's work in spirit soul, and body. I am so glad for a Gospel that is not limited to this age, but reaches out to all ages! I am so glad for a Gospel which tells me that God has made a way by which even His banished may return. I am so glad for a Gospel that is not limited to earth, but reaches into the depths of death and hell. I am so glad for a Gospel of Everlasting Hope, of Everlasting expectation, and for the conviction and divine revelation that the miserable and the wicked shall at last be brought to repent of their sin, and to find their God and Father. I should not want to be an elder, or pastor, or leader, of a people that would wish me to preach eternal damnation

The Good shepherd says the sheep know His voice and will obey Him. Not everyone is His sheep. There are some who attempt to gain entry as a robber and a thief...and that is why He has a staff...to use it to protect His sheep.....

We all are given a choice. God will not force us to accept His grace. Bear in mind, there are consequences for each choice we make concerning believing or not believing.......

He reminds us to choose:

"I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live" -Deuteronomy 30:19

Life and death is before us. Blessing and curse. God provided the provision. It is up to us to choose it.
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.