wanderingone
I'm not lost I'm just wandering
- Jul 6, 2005
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Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
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CreedIsChrist
Well-Known Member
1. "The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified
as a lesbian to be fully feminist." (National NOW Times, Jan.1988).
2. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the
women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom
for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radial
feminist leader Sheila Cronan).
3. "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to
serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice
that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that."
(Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, "The Daily
Illini," April
25, 1981.
4. The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant
members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood,
in "Women and the New Rage," p.67.
5. "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from
families and communally raise them." (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and
assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate
director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).
6. "Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally
sanctioned method of control over women... We must work to destroy it.
The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the
liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women
to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men... All of
history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go
back to ancient female religions like witchcraft." (from "The Declaration
of Feminism," November 1971).
7. "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the
whole... patriarch!" (Gloria Steinhem, radical feminist leader, editor of
'MS' magazine).
8. In response to a question concerning China's policy of compulsory
abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, "I consider the
Chinese government's policy among the most intelligent in the world."
(Gary Bauer, "Abetting Coercion in China," The Washington Times", October
10, 1989).
9. "Let's forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement,
solace and inspiration from real women... Two thousand years of
patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn
women toward the feminist 'salvation' of this world." (Annie Laurie
Gaylor, "Feminist Salvation," "The Humanist", July/August 1988, p.37.
10. "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in
human potential, not God." (Gloria Steinhem, editor of 'MS' magazine.)
It is clear these people want to undermine marriage, society, family and children. You don't have to be a genius to see the feminists true agenda here. They are greatly harming the stability of the family and of marriage.
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CreedIsChrist
Well-Known Member
The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process." -- Linda Gordon
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]work that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." -- Robin Morgan
From her "The Demon Lover" (NY: Norton & Co., 1989 Morgan doesn't hide her bigotry):
p. 138-9: The phallic malady is epidemic and systemic... each individual male in the patriarchy is aware of his relative power in the scheme of things.... He knows that his actions are supported by the twin pillars of the State of man - the brotherhood ritual of political exigency and the brotherhood ritual of a sexual thrill in dominance. As a devotee of Thanatos, he is one with the practitioner of sado-masochistic "play" between "consenting adults," as he is one with the rapist*
p. 224: My white skin disgusts me. My passport disgusts me. They are the marks of an insufferable privilege bought at the price of others' agony.
p. 229: Sex to this point in my life has been trivial, at best a gesture of tenderness, at worst a chore. I couldn't understand the furor about it.
p. 316: Did she die of the disease called "family" or the disease called "rehabilitation", of poverty or drugs or pornography, of economics or sexual slavery or a broken body?
"And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism--the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group, specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group--skin, color, sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism--the oppressed have no alternative--for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women's Liberation will of course free men--but in the short run it's going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women--kill your fathers, not your mothers". -- Robin Morgan
"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]." -- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto
"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex." -- Valerie Solana, SCUM founder (Society for Cutting Up Men.)
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin
"In my own life, I don't have intercourse. That is my choice." -- Andrea Dworkin
Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin
"To be rapeable, a position that is social, not biological, defines what a woman is." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Q: People think you are very hostile to men. A: I am." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men use the night to erase us." -- Andrea Dworkin
"The annihilation of a woman's personality, individuality, will, character, is prerequisite to male sexuality." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men love death. In everything they make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it 'Her'. Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women
"On the Left, on the Right, in the Middle; Authors, statesmen, thieves; so-called humanists and self-declared fascists; the adventurous and the contemplative, in every realm of male expression and action, violence is experienced and articulated as love and freedom." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women.
"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson
"Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson
"Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller; Authoress of Against Our Will p.6
"When a woman reaches [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression." -- Sheila Jeffrys
"Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs." -- Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.)
"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." -- Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.
"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress
"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo." -- Jodie Foster; Actress - as quoted in The New York Times Magazine.
"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.
"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference." -- Susan Griffin, Rape: The All-American Crime.
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.
"If anyone is prosecuted for filing a false report, then victims of real attacks will be less likely to report them." - David Angier
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE." -- Marilyn French (her emphasis)
My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter." -- Marilyn French; The Woman's Room.
"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey." -- Marilyn French
"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)
"I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them." -- Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor.
"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power. But then, I have great difficulty examining what men in general could possibly do about all this. In addition to doing the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]work that women have been doing for generations, possibly not exist? No, I really don't mean that. Yes, I really do." -- Robin Morgan
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage." -- Robin Morgan
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire." -- Robin Morgan
From her "The Demon Lover" (NY: Norton & Co., 1989 Morgan doesn't hide her bigotry):
p. 138-9: The phallic malady is epidemic and systemic... each individual male in the patriarchy is aware of his relative power in the scheme of things.... He knows that his actions are supported by the twin pillars of the State of man - the brotherhood ritual of political exigency and the brotherhood ritual of a sexual thrill in dominance. As a devotee of Thanatos, he is one with the practitioner of sado-masochistic "play" between "consenting adults," as he is one with the rapist*
p. 224: My white skin disgusts me. My passport disgusts me. They are the marks of an insufferable privilege bought at the price of others' agony.
p. 229: Sex to this point in my life has been trivial, at best a gesture of tenderness, at worst a chore. I couldn't understand the furor about it.
p. 316: Did she die of the disease called "family" or the disease called "rehabilitation", of poverty or drugs or pornography, of economics or sexual slavery or a broken body?
"And let's put one lie to rest for all time: the lie that men are oppressed, too, by sexism--the lie that there can be such a thing as 'men's liberation groups.' Oppression is something that one group of people commits against another group, specifically because of a 'threatening' characteristic shared by the latter group--skin, color, sex or age, etc. The oppressors are indeed [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ED UP by being masters, but those masters are not OPPRESSED. Any master has the alternative of divesting himself of sexism or racism--the oppressed have no alternative--for they have no power but to fight. In the long run, Women's Liberation will of course free men--but in the short run it's going to cost men a lot of privilege, which no one gives up willingly or easily. Sexism is NOT the fault of women--kill your fathers, not your mothers". -- Robin Morgan
"To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]." -- Valerie Solanas, Authoress of the SCUM Manifesto
"Life in this society being, at best, an utter bore and no aspect of society being at all relevant to women, there remains to civic-minded, responsible, thrill-seeking females only to overthrow the government, eliminate the money system, institute complete automation, and destroy the male sex." -- Valerie Solana, SCUM founder (Society for Cutting Up Men.)
"The male is a domestic animal which, if treated with firmness...can be trained to do most things." -- Jilly Cooper, SCUM (Society For Cutting Up Men, started by Valerie Solanas)
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." -- Sheila Cronin, the leader of the feminist organization NOW
"I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies." -- Andrea Dworkin
"In my own life, I don't have intercourse. That is my choice." -- Andrea Dworkin
Under patriarchy, every woman's son is her potential betrayer and also the inevitable rapist or exploiter of another woman." -- Andrea Dworkin
"To be rapeable, a position that is social, not biological, defines what a woman is." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Q: People think you are very hostile to men. A: I am." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men use the night to erase us." -- Andrea Dworkin
"The annihilation of a woman's personality, individuality, will, character, is prerequisite to male sexuality." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men love death. In everything they make, they hollow out a central place for death, let its rancid smell contaminate every dimension of whatever still survives. Men especially love murder. In art they celebrate it, and in life they commit it. They embrace murder as if life without it would be devoid of passion, meaning, and action, as if murder were solace, stilling their sobs as they mourn the emptiness and alienation of their lives." -- Andrea Dworkin
"Men are rapists, batterers, plunderers, killers; these same men are religious prophets, poets, heroes, figures of romance, adventure, accomplishment, figures ennobled by tragedy and defeat. Men have claimed the earth, called it 'Her'. Men ruin Her. Men have airplanes, guns, bombs, poisonous gases, weapons so perverse and deadly that they defy any authentically human imagination." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women
"On the Left, on the Right, in the Middle; Authors, statesmen, thieves; so-called humanists and self-declared fascists; the adventurous and the contemplative, in every realm of male expression and action, violence is experienced and articulated as love and freedom." -- Andrea Dworkin, Pornography: Men Possessing Women.
"The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist" -- Ti-Grace Atkinson
"Feminism is the theory, lesbianism is the practice." -- Ti-Grace Atkinson
"Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear" -- Susan Brownmiller; Authoress of Against Our Will p.6
"When a woman reaches [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression." -- Sheila Jeffrys
"Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman." -- Catherine MacKinnon
"You grow up with your father holding you down and covering your mouth so another man can make a horrible searing pain between your legs." -- Catherine MacKinnon (Prominent legal feminist scholar; University of Michigan, & Yale.)
"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." -- Catharine MacKinnon, quoted in Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales from the Strange World of Women's Studies.
"The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men." -- Sharon Stone; Actress
"Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo." -- Jodie Foster; Actress - as quoted in The New York Times Magazine.
"The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race." -- Sally Miller Gearhart, in The Future - If There Is One - Is Female.
"And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference." -- Susan Griffin, Rape: The All-American Crime.
"If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males." --Mary Daly, former Professor at Boston College, 2001.
"If anyone is prosecuted for filing a false report, then victims of real attacks will be less likely to report them." - David Angier
"Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometimes gain from the experience." - Catherine Comins
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE." -- Marilyn French (her emphasis)
My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter." -- Marilyn French; The Woman's Room.
"All patriarchists exalt the home and family as sacred, demanding it remain inviolate from prying eyes. Men want privacy for their violations of women... All women learn in childhood that women as a sex are men's prey." -- Marilyn French
"All men are rapists and that's all they are" -- Marilyn French, Authoress; (later, advisoress to Al Gore's Presidential Campaign.)
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CreedIsChrist
Well-Known Member
"I believe that women have a capacity for understanding and compassion which man structurally does not have, does not have it because he cannot have it. He's just incapable of it." -- Barbara Jordan; Former Congresswoman.
"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release." -- Germaine Greer.
"Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence." -- Judith Levine; Authoress
"Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.' -- Judith Levine, (explicating comment profiling prevailing misandry.)
"I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, 'hate in love,' for the men women share their lives with--husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers." -- Judith Levine, Authoress of My Enemy, My love
"There are no boundaries between affectionate sex and slavery in (the male) world. Distinctions between pleasure and danger are academic; the dirty-laundrylist of 'sex acts'...includes rape, foot binding, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], intercourse, auto eroticism, incest, anal intercourse, use and production of pornography, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], sexual harassment, and murder." -- Judith Levine; summarizing comment on the WAS document, (A southern Women's Writing Collective: Women Against Sex.)
"All men are good for is [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing, and running over with a truck". Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. Richard had protested the quote; was dismissed thereafter on the grounds of harassment; and responded by bringing suit against the University. 1995 settlement.
((Delaney Nickerson, of the American Coalition for ABUSE AWARENESS, refers to the False Memory Syndrome Foundation as "The [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing Molesters Society". (Miami Herald, April 3, 1995) The ACAA is a lobbying group, which includes Ellen Bass (co-author of THE COURAGE TO HEAL), and Rene Frederickson, leading feminist psychotherapist and strong proponent of repressed memory theory.))
((At the STONE ANGELS satanic ritual abuse conference in Thunder Bay in February, 1995, the following was contained in the handouts at a conference supported financially by the Ontario Government: FMS stands for: FULL OF MOSTLY [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]; FOR MORE SADISM; FELONS, MURDERERS, SCUMBALLS; FREQUENT MOLESTERS SOCIETY.))
"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do." -- Popular Feminist Graffiti
"I was, in reality, bred by my parents as my father's concubine... What we take for granted as the stability of family life may well depend on the sexual slavery of our children. What's more, this is a cynical arrangement our institutions have colluded to conceal.". -- Sylvia Fraser; Journalist
"We are taught, encouraged, moulded by and lulled into accepting a range of false notions about the family. As a source of some of our most profound experiences, it continues to be such an integral part of our emotional lives that it appears beyond criticism. Yet hiding from the truth of family life leaves women and children vulnerable." -- Canadian Panel on Violence Against Women.
Catharine MacKinnon ( ) maintains that "the private is a sphere of battery, marital rape and women's exploited labor." In this way, privacy and family are reduced to nothing more than aspects of the master plan, which is male domination. Democratic freedoms and the need to keep the state's nose out of our personal affairs are rendered meaningless. The real reason our society cherishes privacy is because men have invented it as an excuse to conceal their criminality. If people still insist that the traditional family is about love and mutual aid--ideals which, admittedly, are sometimes betrayed--they're "hiding from the truth." The family isn't a place where battery and marital rape sometimes happen but where little else apparently does. Sick men don't simply molest their daughters, they operate in league with their wives to "breed" them for that purpose. -- Donna Laframboise; The Princess at the Window; (in a critical explication of the Catharine MacKinnon, Gloria Steinhem et al tenets of misandric belief.)
"If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal--a large beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students--I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment...of persuading students that women are oppressed" -- Professor Joyce Trebilcot of Washington University, as quoted in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women.
"Men, as a group, tend to be abusive, either verbally, sexually or emotionally. There are always the exceptions, but they are few and far between (I am married to one of them). There are different levels of violence and abuse and individual men buy into this system by varying degrees. But the male power structure always remains intact." Message on FEMISA, responding to a request for arguments that men are unnecessary for a child to grow into mature adulthood.
Another posting on FEMISA: "Considering the nature and pervasiveness of men's violence, I would say that without question, children are better off being raised without the presence of men. Assaults on women and children are mostly perpetrated by men whom they are supposed to love and trust: fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, step-fathers." Both quotes taken from Daphne Patai's excellent critical work, Heterophobia
"At Brandies I discovered Feminism. And I instantly became a convert... writing brilliant papers in my Myths of Patriarchy class, in which I likened my fate as a woman to other victims throughout the ages." -- Heather Hart 7
Here are 10 reasons why we are concerned about feminism and the National Organization for Women.
1. "The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist" (National NOW Times, January, 1988).
2. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage" (feminist leader Sheila Cronan).
3. In response to a question concerning China's policy of compulsory abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, "I consider the Chinese government's policy among the most intelligent in the world" (Gary Bauer, "Abetting Coercion in China," The Washington Times, Oct. 10, 1989).
4. "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole...patriarch!" (Gloria Steinem, radical feminist leader, editor of MS magazine).
5. "Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women.... We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men.... All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft" (from "The Declaration of Feminism," November, 1971).
6. "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God." (Gloria Steinem, editor of MS magazine).
7. "Let's forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement, solace, and inspiration from real women.... Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist 'salvation' of this world." (Annie Laurie Gaylor, "Feminist Salvation," The Humanist, p. 37, July/August 1988.
8. "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College, and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).
9. "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family- maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that." (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.
10. "The most merciful thing a large family can to do one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in "Women and the New Race," p. 67).
"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." -- Elizabeth Cady Stanton
From 'A feminist Dictionary; ed. Kramarae and Triechler, Pandora Press, 1985:
MALE:...represents a variant of or deviation from the category of female. The first males were mutants...the male sex represents a degeneration and deformity of the female.
MAN:...an obsolete life form... an ordinary creature who needs to be watched...a contradictory baby-man...
TESTOSTERONE POISONING: ... 'Until now it has been though that the level of testosterone in men is normal simply because they have it. But if you consider how abnormal their behavior is, then you are led to the hypothesis that almost all men are suffering from "testosterone poisoning."
Letter to editor: "Women's Turn to Dominate". "......Clearly you are not yet a free-thinking feminist but rather one of those women who bounce off the male-dominated, male-controlled social structures. Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is: if you don't like it, bad luck--and if you get in my way I'll run you down." Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia. 9 Feb., 1996.
“Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism.” - Catharine A. MacKinnon
"I do want to be able to explain to a 9-year-old boy in terms he will understand why I think it's OK for girls to wear shirts that revel in their superiority over boys." -- Treena Shapiro
"In general, I support a girl's right to offend any member of the opposite sex who happens to cross her path. In fact, I'd much rather see a little girl wearing a shirt that mocks boys than one that turns them on." -- Treena Shapiro
"We regard our personal experience, and our FEELINGS about that experience, as the basis for an analysis of our common situation. We cannot rely on existing ideologies as they are all the products of male supremicist culture." -- The Redstockings Manifesto
"Men are animals. Don't you think so?" -- Ireen von Wachenfeldt, radical feminist leader in Sweden
"Heterosexuality is a die-hard custom through which male-supremacist institutions insure their own perpetuity and control over us. Women are kept, maintained and contained through terror, violence, and the spray of sperm...[Lesbianism is] an ideological, political and philosophical means of liberation of all women from heterosexual tyranny... " -- Cheryl Clarke, "Lesbianism, An Act of Resistance," in This Bridge Called My Back: Writing by Radical Women of Color
"The care of children ..is infinitely better left to the best trained practitioners of both sexes who have chosen it as a vocation...[This] would further undermine family structure while contributing to the freedom of women." --Kate Millet, Sexual Politics 178-179
"Probably the only place where a man can feel really secure is in a maximum security prison, except for the imminent threat of release." -- Germaine Greer.
"Man-hating is everywhere, but everywhere it is twisted and transformed, disguised, tranquilized, and qualified. It coexists, never peacefully, with the love, desire, respect, and need women also feel for men. Always man-hating is shadowed by its milder, more diplomatic and doubtful twin, ambivalence." -- Judith Levine; Authoress
"Men's sexuality is mean and violent, and men so powerful that they can 'reach WITHIN women to [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]/construct us from the inside out.' Satan-like, men possess women, making their wicked fantasies and desires women's own. A woman who has sex with a man, therefore, does so against her will, 'even if she does not feel forced.' -- Judith Levine, (explicating comment profiling prevailing misandry.)
"I feel what they feel: man-hating, that volatile admixture of pity, contempt, disgust, envy, alienation, fear, and rage at men. It is hatred not only for the anonymous man who makes sucking noises on the street, not only for the rapist or the judge who acquits him, but for what the Greeks called philo-aphilos, 'hate in love,' for the men women share their lives with--husbands, lovers, friends, fathers, brothers, sons, coworkers." -- Judith Levine, Authoress of My Enemy, My love
"There are no boundaries between affectionate sex and slavery in (the male) world. Distinctions between pleasure and danger are academic; the dirty-laundrylist of 'sex acts'...includes rape, foot binding, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], intercourse, auto eroticism, incest, anal intercourse, use and production of pornography, [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], sexual harassment, and murder." -- Judith Levine; summarizing comment on the WAS document, (A southern Women's Writing Collective: Women Against Sex.)
"All men are good for is [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing, and running over with a truck". Statement made by A University of Maine Feminist Administrator, quoted by Richard Dinsmore, who brought a successful civil suit against the University in the amount of $600,000. Richard had protested the quote; was dismissed thereafter on the grounds of harassment; and responded by bringing suit against the University. 1995 settlement.
((Delaney Nickerson, of the American Coalition for ABUSE AWARENESS, refers to the False Memory Syndrome Foundation as "The [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]ing Molesters Society". (Miami Herald, April 3, 1995) The ACAA is a lobbying group, which includes Ellen Bass (co-author of THE COURAGE TO HEAL), and Rene Frederickson, leading feminist psychotherapist and strong proponent of repressed memory theory.))
((At the STONE ANGELS satanic ritual abuse conference in Thunder Bay in February, 1995, the following was contained in the handouts at a conference supported financially by the Ontario Government: FMS stands for: FULL OF MOSTLY [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]; FOR MORE SADISM; FELONS, MURDERERS, SCUMBALLS; FREQUENT MOLESTERS SOCIETY.))
"Women have their faults / men have only two: / everything they say / everything they do." -- Popular Feminist Graffiti
"I was, in reality, bred by my parents as my father's concubine... What we take for granted as the stability of family life may well depend on the sexual slavery of our children. What's more, this is a cynical arrangement our institutions have colluded to conceal.". -- Sylvia Fraser; Journalist
"We are taught, encouraged, moulded by and lulled into accepting a range of false notions about the family. As a source of some of our most profound experiences, it continues to be such an integral part of our emotional lives that it appears beyond criticism. Yet hiding from the truth of family life leaves women and children vulnerable." -- Canadian Panel on Violence Against Women.
Catharine MacKinnon ( ) maintains that "the private is a sphere of battery, marital rape and women's exploited labor." In this way, privacy and family are reduced to nothing more than aspects of the master plan, which is male domination. Democratic freedoms and the need to keep the state's nose out of our personal affairs are rendered meaningless. The real reason our society cherishes privacy is because men have invented it as an excuse to conceal their criminality. If people still insist that the traditional family is about love and mutual aid--ideals which, admittedly, are sometimes betrayed--they're "hiding from the truth." The family isn't a place where battery and marital rape sometimes happen but where little else apparently does. Sick men don't simply molest their daughters, they operate in league with their wives to "breed" them for that purpose. -- Donna Laframboise; The Princess at the Window; (in a critical explication of the Catharine MacKinnon, Gloria Steinhem et al tenets of misandric belief.)
"If the classroom situation is very heteropatriarchal--a large beginning class of 50 to 60 students, say, with few feminist students--I am likely to define my task as largely one of recruitment...of persuading students that women are oppressed" -- Professor Joyce Trebilcot of Washington University, as quoted in Who Stole Feminism: How Women Have Betrayed Women.
"Men, as a group, tend to be abusive, either verbally, sexually or emotionally. There are always the exceptions, but they are few and far between (I am married to one of them). There are different levels of violence and abuse and individual men buy into this system by varying degrees. But the male power structure always remains intact." Message on FEMISA, responding to a request for arguments that men are unnecessary for a child to grow into mature adulthood.
Another posting on FEMISA: "Considering the nature and pervasiveness of men's violence, I would say that without question, children are better off being raised without the presence of men. Assaults on women and children are mostly perpetrated by men whom they are supposed to love and trust: fathers, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, step-fathers." Both quotes taken from Daphne Patai's excellent critical work, Heterophobia
"At Brandies I discovered Feminism. And I instantly became a convert... writing brilliant papers in my Myths of Patriarchy class, in which I likened my fate as a woman to other victims throughout the ages." -- Heather Hart 7
Here are 10 reasons why we are concerned about feminism and the National Organization for Women.
1. "The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist" (National NOW Times, January, 1988).
2. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage" (feminist leader Sheila Cronan).
3. In response to a question concerning China's policy of compulsory abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, "I consider the Chinese government's policy among the most intelligent in the world" (Gary Bauer, "Abetting Coercion in China," The Washington Times, Oct. 10, 1989).
4. "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole...patriarch!" (Gloria Steinem, radical feminist leader, editor of MS magazine).
5. "Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women.... We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men.... All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft" (from "The Declaration of Feminism," November, 1971).
6. "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God." (Gloria Steinem, editor of MS magazine).
7. "Let's forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement, solace, and inspiration from real women.... Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist 'salvation' of this world." (Annie Laurie Gaylor, "Feminist Salvation," The Humanist, p. 37, July/August 1988.
8. "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them" (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College, and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).
9. "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family- maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that." (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, The Daily Illini, April 25, 1981.
10. "The most merciful thing a large family can to do one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in "Women and the New Race," p. 67).
"We are, as a sex, infinitely superior to men." -- Elizabeth Cady Stanton
From 'A feminist Dictionary; ed. Kramarae and Triechler, Pandora Press, 1985:
MALE:...represents a variant of or deviation from the category of female. The first males were mutants...the male sex represents a degeneration and deformity of the female.
MAN:...an obsolete life form... an ordinary creature who needs to be watched...a contradictory baby-man...
TESTOSTERONE POISONING: ... 'Until now it has been though that the level of testosterone in men is normal simply because they have it. But if you consider how abnormal their behavior is, then you are led to the hypothesis that almost all men are suffering from "testosterone poisoning."
Letter to editor: "Women's Turn to Dominate". "......Clearly you are not yet a free-thinking feminist but rather one of those women who bounce off the male-dominated, male-controlled social structures. Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is: if you don't like it, bad luck--and if you get in my way I'll run you down." Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia. 9 Feb., 1996.
“Feminism, Socialism, and Communism are one in the same, and Socialist/Communist government is the goal of feminism.” - Catharine A. MacKinnon
"I do want to be able to explain to a 9-year-old boy in terms he will understand why I think it's OK for girls to wear shirts that revel in their superiority over boys." -- Treena Shapiro
"In general, I support a girl's right to offend any member of the opposite sex who happens to cross her path. In fact, I'd much rather see a little girl wearing a shirt that mocks boys than one that turns them on." -- Treena Shapiro
"We regard our personal experience, and our FEELINGS about that experience, as the basis for an analysis of our common situation. We cannot rely on existing ideologies as they are all the products of male supremicist culture." -- The Redstockings Manifesto
"Men are animals. Don't you think so?" -- Ireen von Wachenfeldt, radical feminist leader in Sweden
"Heterosexuality is a die-hard custom through which male-supremacist institutions insure their own perpetuity and control over us. Women are kept, maintained and contained through terror, violence, and the spray of sperm...[Lesbianism is] an ideological, political and philosophical means of liberation of all women from heterosexual tyranny... " -- Cheryl Clarke, "Lesbianism, An Act of Resistance," in This Bridge Called My Back: Writing by Radical Women of Color
"The care of children ..is infinitely better left to the best trained practitioners of both sexes who have chosen it as a vocation...[This] would further undermine family structure while contributing to the freedom of women." --Kate Millet, Sexual Politics 178-179
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CreedIsChrist
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Im not defending rapists. Ive' posted that around 3 times already. However I don't ignore the exterior factors in society that bring up such people. Feminism is one of the factors that has contributed to rape, yes, because of its encouraged sexualization of women. Again a person just dosen't one day wake up and say "gee, I think ill be a rapist today". Rapists are brought up in society because of our awful moral system in the way we raise our children and the sexual media being pushed on everyone. It is desensitizing children. .. If anything your the one defending the rapists because your defending the things that urge rapists on and increase their desires to act out on their own perverted fantasys. Do you disagree that rapists should be put on libido lowering drugs or castration?
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jcook922
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I think the vocal feminists are full of crap, my fiance and I have a very equal relationship, cases of women hating men and men taking advantage of women are things that will always exist, neither side needs to have complete dominance over the other. If marriage is "slavery" and women all thought that, they wouldn't get married. If all men saw women purely as sex objects, I wouldn't love my fiance, and I would never have started dating her after I figured out she was a virgin saving herself for marriage after I had lost my virginity myself several years ago. We just accepted eachother for who we were.
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RealDealNeverstop
Is Prayer Your First or Last Action?
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What kind of engagement rings are worn?
As for the rest of the post...there are simply too many strawmen to address. The claims also reflect a fundamental misunderstanding for what feminism means.
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RealDealNeverstop
Is Prayer Your First or Last Action?
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Hmmm...well first off, some of those quotes are misunderstood. Secondly, marriage has been for the benefit of men. Look all the way back to Deut. for the evidence. If an unmarried virgin was forcibly taken by a man, that man had to pay her father some money and she had to marry the man. Ownership over women in marriage is still seen in our culture today. The father of the bride walks her down the ailse to "give her away" to her soon-to-be husband. The woman gets escorted by one man directly into the control of a different man.
Also, yes, extremism does exist in feminism just like any other group. There are Christians that use scripture to justify raping young girls but would it be fair to claim that select few represent Christianity?
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cantata
Queer non-theist, with added jam.
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The lady doth protest too much.
Feminism does not encourage the sexualisation of women. Where did you get that idea? It encourages women to enjoy their sexuality as much as men do. How horrible!
I remain unconvinced that rapists exist because of "sexual media". Rape is not a result of not being able to find anywhere to put your penis.
I think you are also yet to present evidence that the incidence of actual rape (as opposed to reported or convicted rape) has increased in the US or the UK in the last century.
Yes, actually, I do disagree with it. I don't think that anyone, rapist or no, should have their body interfered with by the state unless they are mentally unfit to consent.
If a rapist agrees to take drugs which will lower his libido, I don't see a problem, but I also don't see it as a comprehensive solution.
Could you can explain how you and your fiancée having an equal relationship demonstrates that vocal feminists are full of crap?
Almost all feminists - including vocal ones - do not demand dominance over men. Feminism, despite its unfortunate name, is about equality of the sexes and the awarding of rights, privileges, employment, and so on, on the basis of merit rather than sex. As an occasionally vocal feminist, I frequently stand up and argue for equal custody laws and maternity/paternity leave for the sexes, and acceptance and rights for male and female non-heterosexuals. I point out the prevalence, inaccuracy, and detrimental effects of both male and female stereotyping in advertising, pornography, and other media. As a feminist, I actually believe that, in some areas, men suffer just as much as women from unreasonable expectations based on their sex.
Some feminists regard marriage as slavery because they believe that women are socially conditioned from birth to desire marriage, to have babies, and to serve a husband. The argument goes that as adults they quite cheerfully enter marriages, and think that's what they want, because it's all they know, but that it's actually stifling and detrimental to a woman's independence and freedom. Personally, I think that this is the case for some women, but certainly not all.
In any case, your claim that women wouldn't get married if they thought it was slavery is rather simplistic. The point that some feminists - certainly not all - are trying to make is that sometimes people do things that are bad for them, but which they don't know are bad for them.
Again, I think you misunderstand feminists. Most feminists do not think that all men see women purely as sex objects. But they do argue that men often fail to understand (or even see the need to understand) women's sexual needs, and that because of the way that women are brought up to think about sex, there is a risk that women will, for example, "go along with it" (inside or outside marriage) when it isn't really what they want, because for various reasons they are unable to express dissent.
These are just a few of the issues troubling feminists. You might need to rethink your overly simplistic and reactionary portrait of feminists.
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RealDealNeverstop
Is Prayer Your First or Last Action?
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No. A tragedy is when you open a pint of Chunky Monkey to discover it is freezer burnt!
Seriously, the most explicit statement of defending rapists thus far was the claim that sexual "urges overpower" the rapist and he can't help himself. It also makes the rapist a victim and incriminates women for tempting him too much.
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RealDealNeverstop
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All feminists are vocal. There are some extreme feminists but some of the above quotes are not as diabolical as they are being portrayed. Many of them are part of an argument but instead of showing the whole argument certain sentences are plucked to push an anti-Fem agenda.
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keith99
sola dosis facit venenum
Gosh my dogs have better morality than that. They yeild to temptation, but when called on it by their God (me) they admit they could have resisted and take their punisment like dogs (don't want to insult them by saying like men).
NOTE: Their punishment is banishment to the garage for a while. Their temptation, food left within reach. And it does take them time to yeild to temptation. Except for one case of dissapearing butter it has never been a case of my back turned for a couple of minutes, more like a few hours.
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wanderingone
I'm not lost I'm just wandering
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I am a vocal feminist. I don't care if you feel I am full of crap. Just because an individual has been quoted as saying marriage is slavery does not mean all feminists believe contemporary marriages entered into because of choice are slavery. It's only been recently that unmarried women have had the freedom to pursue their lives without the approval of a supervising man (dad, uncle, brother etc..)
American society has changed rapidly over the last century because of vocal feminist who insisted women have the freedom to marry because they want to share their lives with someone and not because being single would mean a lifetime of living with some married relative because a single woman alone would only be subject to all kinds of speculation about her reputation and often be denied access to property, investments, credit because she had no man to validate her investment or ownership.
.
Feminists are responsible for demanding that people should not have to live with abuse, should not be held accountable for assaults on their bodies.
Education that went beyond finishing school, jobs in all fields, full rights to vote and hold political office.... all these things I thank my rabble rousing ancestors for... they made my life an easy one, all I had to do was keep stoking the fire built for me, and take advantage of the opportunities they helped insure I could have access to.
So put that crap in your pipe and smoke it buster.
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wanderingone
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"I don't view women as sex objects, but the first thing I'll say to prove it is something sexual about my future wife"
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cantata
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Okay, let's look at this list, CreedIsChrist.
Linda Gordon: "The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process."
Gordon wrote whatever that quote has been mined from before 1970. She's not well-known enough to be on Wikipedia, and the only references to her I can find are in documents opposing her position.
Robin Morgan: "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them."
Well, firstly, Morgan was editor of Ms. Magazine in 1990-1993 - so 15 years ago... She did most of her writing in the 70s. I am unable to find the source of this quotation. It's all over the internet, but always with nothing but "Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine editor", which suggests that it may be spurious.
"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power."
Here's Morgan's own response to that quotation, recorded at some point post-2000:
"That quote is from the early 1970s and fortunately both the movement and I have matured in terms of developing a much more sophisticated range of tactics and strategies, due to our enormous numbers, than we ever could have imagined back in the late 60s and early 70s. While it is still true that "pale males" are at the top of the "food chain" - more men are changing every day. They're more involved with their children and families and on every level, from slowly learning to use Ms. through to adopting and adapting to anti-sexual harrassment workplace rules, men have been changing. It's not enough by far, but it is a start. And it's the power of the women's movement that has brought them even this far."
Woo, fear the big scary feminist! o_0
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage."
This quotation is from a book published in 1970. Given the above response that Ms Morgan gave to another quotation from around this time, I would imagine that her views have changed - as indeed the world and the political climate have, since 1970.
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
Again, a quotation from 1974. Feminism has moved on since then, you know.
Well, enough with Robin Morgan, who is but one woman with views that not every feminist agrees with. Let's move on.
Valerie Solanas: "To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]."
Ah, Valerie Solanas. Well, firstly, she was pretty messed up. She was regularly sexually abused by her father as a child, and was homeless at 15. Surprised she didn't like men very much? She was clearly psychologically damaged; she shot Andy Warhol when he wouldn't produce her film. Secondly, the SCUM Manifesto was published in 1967, and she claimed it was never meant to be taken seriously. I would say that very few people - particularly not feminists - take it seriously today. So as an example of a "feminist leader" (whatever one of those is), she's hardly ideal.
Sheila Cronin: "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage."
Sheila Cronin also fails to warrent a Wikipedia entry, and isn't even mentioned in the NOW entry. In fact, on the NOW website, there's no mention of a Sheila Cronin at all. Nor can I find this quotation anywhere except on websites opposing the opinion it states. I smell a phony quotation, don't you?
Andrea Dworkin: "I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig."
This is a quotation from a work of fiction.
"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice."
Hyperbole, but not obviously false. Dworkin goes on to say, "Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership." Is she wrong, given that she's referring to a time when men could divorce their wives for refusing sex, runaway wives were forcibly returned, and there was no such thing as marital rape? Certainly, it is not an insane remark. It is a discussion worth having.
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies."
Can't find a reference for this, and it only appears on websites opposing it.
"In my own life, I don't have intercourse. That is my choice."
So? She's chaste! You should be pleased!
Anyway - I'm hardly Dworkins' biggest fan, but guess what? She's one radical feminist. Most feminists (there are a lot of us) don't share her views. In fact, she has alienated many women, and heterosexual women especially. But again, look at her background. She was beaten and abused by her husband. Is it so astonishing that she was angry? And do you think that today's feminists are incapable of thinking critically?
By the way, do you condemn Dworkins' activism around raising awareness of spousal battery and rape?
Ti-Grace Atkinson: "The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist."
Ti-Grace Atkinson's radical feminist group was active until 1973, and hasn't published since 1974. Again, she is a single radical feminist. Her views are not representative of those of most modern-day feminists.
Susan Brownmiller: "Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear."
Yet again, a radical feminist of the 70s. We've moved on.
Sheila Jeffrys: "When a woman reaches [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression."
Sheila Jeffrys doesn't get a Wikipedia entry. I can't seem to find out who she is. Clearly not a "feminist leader", then...
Catherine MacKinnon: "Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated."
Do you disagree?
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."
MacKinnon sees penetrative sex as violent. Most feminists do not agree with her.
"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent."
Hey, look! http://www.snopes.com/quotes/mackinnon.asp
Quoted from Snopes.com:
"MacKinnon was further tied to the quote she did not utter by a March 1999 article by conservative commentator Cal Thomas in which he incorrectly identified her as the author of Professing Feminism and quoted her as saying: "In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." Not only is the quote misattributed, but the putative source, Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales From The Strange World of Women's Studies, is a book criticizing the work of MacKinnon and other feminists, written by Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge."
Well that just totally undermined the credibility of your little list (well, Conservapedia's little list, actually), didn't it?
Sharon Stone: "The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men."
I can only find this quotation on anti-feminist websites.
Jodie Foster: "Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo."
I don't see how this quotation can make you annoyed about feminism. Weird.
Sally Miller Gearheart: "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race."
Guess what? Another one of those rather nuts 70s radical feminists. Does anyone take her seriously nowadays? I think not.
Susan Griffin: "And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference."
In context, you'll notice that Griffin is talking about a very real problem that women face: the almost casual rape and sexual assault perpetrated by some white heterosexual men. She writes, for example, "The scenario is even further complicated by the expectation that, not only does a woman mean 'yes' when she says 'no,' but that a really decent woman ought to begin by saying 'no,' and then be led down the primrose path to acquiescence." She has a point.
Mary Daly: "If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males."
Yep, I concede this one; Mary Daly is a class-A crazy person. I don't know any feminists who take her seriously, though. She is no "feminist leader".
Catherine Comins: "Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometime gain from the experience."
Taken in context, this is a slightly less peculiar remark than it might immediately seem.
"They have a lot of pain, but it is not necessarily pain that I would have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self[wash my mouth]-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the power to do what they say I did?' Those are good questions.'"
However, regardless, Comins has never published. She was one woman at one American college who had some pretty weird ideas about protecting women. She is not a "feminist leader" (whatever one of those is supposed to be).
Marilyn French: "As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE."
Wel, this is a flagrant misrepresentation of Ms French's position. The quote in context:
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. Beyond that, it is not necessary to beat up a woman to beat her down. A man can simply refuse to hire women in well-paid jobs, extract as much or more work from women than men but pay them less, or treat women disrespectfully at work or at home. He can fail to support a child he has engendered, demand the woman he lives with wait on him like a servant. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women, whether mate, acquaintance, or stranger; he can rape or sexually molest his daughters, nieces, stepchildren, or the children of a woman he claims to love. The vast majority of men in the world do one or more of the above."
Essentially what she's saying is: all men benefit from patriarchy. Not an insane position, especially when the role of patriarchy-as-a-whole (as opposed to the behaviour of men as individuals) in the oppression of women is often played down.
"My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."
"All men are rapists and that's all they are"
These are both quotations from a work of fiction, The Women's Room.
So, in conclusion, a pretty ropey list of quotations which were, if not apparently entirely apocryphal, mostly written or said in the 70s or earlier, and which are far from representative of the views of most feminists. Quoting these women to represent the views of modern mainstream feminists is like quoting Fred Phelps in order to give an indication of the views of modern mainstream Christians. I won't bother with the other half of the list - this was very time-consuming - but I hope I've demonstrated that the list is (probably deliberately) misleading and in any case a far cry from the views of feminists today.
Linda Gordon: "The nuclear family must be destroyed... Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families now is an objectively revolutionary process."
Gordon wrote whatever that quote has been mined from before 1970. She's not well-known enough to be on Wikipedia, and the only references to her I can find are in documents opposing her position.
Robin Morgan: "I feel that 'man-hating' is an honorable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them."
Well, firstly, Morgan was editor of Ms. Magazine in 1990-1993 - so 15 years ago... She did most of her writing in the 70s. I am unable to find the source of this quotation. It's all over the internet, but always with nothing but "Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine editor", which suggests that it may be spurious.
"I haven't the faintest notion what possible revolutionary role white hetero- sexual men could fulfill, since they are the very embodiment of reactionary- vested-interest-power."
Here's Morgan's own response to that quotation, recorded at some point post-2000:
"That quote is from the early 1970s and fortunately both the movement and I have matured in terms of developing a much more sophisticated range of tactics and strategies, due to our enormous numbers, than we ever could have imagined back in the late 60s and early 70s. While it is still true that "pale males" are at the top of the "food chain" - more men are changing every day. They're more involved with their children and families and on every level, from slowly learning to use Ms. through to adopting and adapting to anti-sexual harrassment workplace rules, men have been changing. It's not enough by far, but it is a start. And it's the power of the women's movement that has brought them even this far."
Woo, fear the big scary feminist! o_0
"We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage."
This quotation is from a book published in 1970. Given the above response that Ms Morgan gave to another quotation from around this time, I would imagine that her views have changed - as indeed the world and the political climate have, since 1970.
"I claim that rape exists any time sexual intercourse occurs when it has not been initiated by the woman, out of her own genuine affection and desire."
Again, a quotation from 1974. Feminism has moved on since then, you know.
Well, enough with Robin Morgan, who is but one woman with views that not every feminist agrees with. Let's move on.
Valerie Solanas: "To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he's a machine, a walking [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]."
Ah, Valerie Solanas. Well, firstly, she was pretty messed up. She was regularly sexually abused by her father as a child, and was homeless at 15. Surprised she didn't like men very much? She was clearly psychologically damaged; she shot Andy Warhol when he wouldn't produce her film. Secondly, the SCUM Manifesto was published in 1967, and she claimed it was never meant to be taken seriously. I would say that very few people - particularly not feminists - take it seriously today. So as an example of a "feminist leader" (whatever one of those is), she's hardly ideal.
Sheila Cronin: "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage."
Sheila Cronin also fails to warrent a Wikipedia entry, and isn't even mentioned in the NOW entry. In fact, on the NOW website, there's no mention of a Sheila Cronin at all. Nor can I find this quotation anywhere except on websites opposing the opinion it states. I smell a phony quotation, don't you?
Andrea Dworkin: "I want to see a man beaten to a bloody pulp with a high-heel shoved in his mouth, like an apple in the mouth of a pig."
This is a quotation from a work of fiction.
"Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice."
Hyperbole, but not obviously false. Dworkin goes on to say, "Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership." Is she wrong, given that she's referring to a time when men could divorce their wives for refusing sex, runaway wives were forcibly returned, and there was no such thing as marital rape? Certainly, it is not an insane remark. It is a discussion worth having.
"Heterosexual intercourse is the pure, formalized expression of contempt for women's bodies."
Can't find a reference for this, and it only appears on websites opposing it.
"In my own life, I don't have intercourse. That is my choice."
So? She's chaste! You should be pleased!
Anyway - I'm hardly Dworkins' biggest fan, but guess what? She's one radical feminist. Most feminists (there are a lot of us) don't share her views. In fact, she has alienated many women, and heterosexual women especially. But again, look at her background. She was beaten and abused by her husband. Is it so astonishing that she was angry? And do you think that today's feminists are incapable of thinking critically?
By the way, do you condemn Dworkins' activism around raising awareness of spousal battery and rape?
Ti-Grace Atkinson: "The institution of sexual intercourse is anti-feminist."
Ti-Grace Atkinson's radical feminist group was active until 1973, and hasn't published since 1974. Again, she is a single radical feminist. Her views are not representative of those of most modern-day feminists.
Susan Brownmiller: "Rape is nothing more or less than a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear."
Yet again, a radical feminist of the 70s. We've moved on.
Sheila Jeffrys: "When a woman reaches [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] with a man she is only collaborating with the patriarchal system, eroticizing her own oppression."
Sheila Jeffrys doesn't get a Wikipedia entry. I can't seem to find out who she is. Clearly not a "feminist leader", then...
Catherine MacKinnon: "Politically, I call it rape whenever a woman has sex and feels violated."
Do you disagree?
"All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman."
MacKinnon sees penetrative sex as violent. Most feminists do not agree with her.
"In a patriarchal society, all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent."
Hey, look! http://www.snopes.com/quotes/mackinnon.asp
Quoted from Snopes.com:
"MacKinnon was further tied to the quote she did not utter by a March 1999 article by conservative commentator Cal Thomas in which he incorrectly identified her as the author of Professing Feminism and quoted her as saying: "In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent." Not only is the quote misattributed, but the putative source, Professing Feminism: Cautionary Tales From The Strange World of Women's Studies, is a book criticizing the work of MacKinnon and other feminists, written by Daphne Patai and Noretta Koertge."
Well that just totally undermined the credibility of your little list (well, Conservapedia's little list, actually), didn't it?
Sharon Stone: "The more famous and powerful I get the more power I have to hurt men."
I can only find this quotation on anti-feminist websites.
Jodie Foster: "Ninety-five percent of women's experiences are about being a victim. Or about being an underdog, or having to survive... women didn't go to Vietnam and blow things up. They are not Rambo."
I don't see how this quotation can make you annoyed about feminism. Weird.
Sally Miller Gearheart: "The proportion of men must be reduced to and maintained at approximately 10% of the human race."
Guess what? Another one of those rather nuts 70s radical feminists. Does anyone take her seriously nowadays? I think not.
Susan Griffin: "And if the professional rapist is to be separated from the average dominant heterosexual (male), it may be mainly a quantitative difference."
In context, you'll notice that Griffin is talking about a very real problem that women face: the almost casual rape and sexual assault perpetrated by some white heterosexual men. She writes, for example, "The scenario is even further complicated by the expectation that, not only does a woman mean 'yes' when she says 'no,' but that a really decent woman ought to begin by saying 'no,' and then be led down the primrose path to acquiescence." She has a point.
Mary Daly: "If life is to survive on this planet, there must be a decontamination of the Earth. I think this will be accompanied by an evolutionary process that will result in a drastic reduction of the population of males."
Yep, I concede this one; Mary Daly is a class-A crazy person. I don't know any feminists who take her seriously, though. She is no "feminist leader".
Catherine Comins: "Men who are unjustly accused of rape can sometime gain from the experience."
Taken in context, this is a slightly less peculiar remark than it might immediately seem.
"They have a lot of pain, but it is not necessarily pain that I would have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self[wash my mouth]-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the power to do what they say I did?' Those are good questions.'"
However, regardless, Comins has never published. She was one woman at one American college who had some pretty weird ideas about protecting women. She is not a "feminist leader" (whatever one of those is supposed to be).
Marilyn French: "As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women...he can sexually molest his daughters... THE VAST MAJORITY OF MEN IN THE WORLD DO ONE OR MORE OF THE ABOVE."
Wel, this is a flagrant misrepresentation of Ms French's position. The quote in context:
"As long as some men use physical force to subjugate females, all men need not. The knowledge that some men do suffices to threaten all women. Beyond that, it is not necessary to beat up a woman to beat her down. A man can simply refuse to hire women in well-paid jobs, extract as much or more work from women than men but pay them less, or treat women disrespectfully at work or at home. He can fail to support a child he has engendered, demand the woman he lives with wait on him like a servant. He can beat or kill the woman he claims to love; he can rape women, whether mate, acquaintance, or stranger; he can rape or sexually molest his daughters, nieces, stepchildren, or the children of a woman he claims to love. The vast majority of men in the world do one or more of the above."
Essentially what she's saying is: all men benefit from patriarchy. Not an insane position, especially when the role of patriarchy-as-a-whole (as opposed to the behaviour of men as individuals) in the oppression of women is often played down.
"My feelings about men are the result of my experience. I have little sympathy for them. Like a Jew just released from Dachau, I watch the handsome young Nazi soldier fall writhing to the ground with a bullet in his stomach and I look briefly and walk on. I don't even need to shrug. I simply don't care. What he was, as a person, I mean, what his shames and yearnings were, simply don't matter."
"All men are rapists and that's all they are"
These are both quotations from a work of fiction, The Women's Room.
So, in conclusion, a pretty ropey list of quotations which were, if not apparently entirely apocryphal, mostly written or said in the 70s or earlier, and which are far from representative of the views of most feminists. Quoting these women to represent the views of modern mainstream feminists is like quoting Fred Phelps in order to give an indication of the views of modern mainstream Christians. I won't bother with the other half of the list - this was very time-consuming - but I hope I've demonstrated that the list is (probably deliberately) misleading and in any case a far cry from the views of feminists today.
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