Anti-rape device

[RealDealNeverstop]

Im sorry but that is not reality. A high sex drive will always contibute to rape and the rapist acting on his desires. Many rapists are known to be addicted to pornography and things like S&M. Problem is the urges took over them and they acted them out in real life. Again if it was just power then there would be no intercourse(because arousal is required for intercourse to happen). Why do you think rape was alot less common centurys ago than it is today? Rape has risen because people are being bombared with sexual images and the sexualization of human beings in the media every day. A person can't turn on the TV anyone without seeing some type of sexual theme, soap opera, or some girls gone wild infomercial with women dancing shaking their skin all over the place. Im sorry but with the increase of rapes in the country I can only point my finger at the liberal media, the feminists and the secular world and say "you contibuted to this"..WHen you raise children in a godless world, with Godless parenting, and a Godless school curriculum you create Godless uncaring people

Oh boy...in the interest of being energy efficient, please provide some type of support for the claims here because these are the ramblings of the uninformed.

But, at least my guess wasn't far off course. I predicted rape was being exploited to further some type of ideology and here we have it...the "librul media" and "feminists" are to blame. Also, the rapist is being made the victim...again. By claiming the "urges" overpowered the rapist you are removing the majority of blame from the rapist. Frankly, I simply don't have the patience this morning to handle this kind of mis-information so please, provide some supporting evidence.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Btw CIC, do you know who is recognized by some as the first Christian Feminist?

 

[praying]

Im sorry but that is not reality. A high sex drive will always contibute to rape and the rapist acting on his desires. Many rapists are known to be addicted to pornography and things like S&M. Problem is the urges took over them and they acted them out in real life. Again if it was just power then there would be no intercourse(because arousal is required for intercourse to happen). Why do you think rape was alot less common centurys ago than it is today? Rape has risen because people are being bombared with sexual images and the sexualization of human beings in the media every day. A person can't turn on the TV anyone without seeing some type of sexual theme, soap opera, or some girls gone wild infomercial with women dancing shaking their skin all over the place. Im sorry but with the increase of rapes in the country I can only point my finger at the liberal media, the feminists and the secular world and say "you contibuted to this"..WHen you raise children in a godless world, with Godless parenting, and a Godless school curriculum you create Godless uncaring people

Can you produce one shred of peer reviewed evidence that supports your assertions? You saying it does not make it so. I will be waiting, but not holding my breath.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Can you produce one shred of peer reviewed evidence that supports your assertions? You saying it does not make it so. I will be waiting, but not holding my breath.

I have heard/read similar rapist apologetics from camps like Dobson, Pat Robertson, etc. They even claim Feminists don't respect women...know why? (This is scary logic) Because Feminists don't know God nor respect "The role God has planned for women." (Paraphrasing) The gist of the claim is Feminists are trying to overrule God on what functions women serve in our society. I wonder how many times guys like that go to bed wishing they were born in the 12th Century.

 

[Mling]

A) There are lots of ways to deal with high sex drive other than rape.
B) Many people who rape are trying to prove their own power or masculinity, often because something is threatening it. Extremely low sex drive, impotence or trouble maintaining an erection are common triggers.

In fact, the study I read a few years ago showed that most rapists didn't consider the act of rape to be all that sexually satisfying, and many weren't able to...reach completion.

 

[Mling]

Also, I have a *lot* of trouble imagining somebody who is actually a part of the SM community committing rape. I mean, I know every culture has its fringe elements, and of course there are going to be people who like the porn but don't participate in the community as a whole. But somebody who's really into it, who has had Safe Sane Consensual drilled into their skull and been taught to carefully negotiate scenes to determine their partner's limits and level of consent, having this as an outlet for whatever cravings for power they might have....and then going out and violating all of it? I cannot imagine that happens often.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Can you produce one shred of peer reviewed evidence that supports your assertions? You saying it does not make it so. I will be waiting, but not holding my breath.

Here you go for evidence.

I seem to notice the people asking for evidence don't provide any on their behalf. Hmmm. Hypocritical? not surprised..

"A subset of rapists is driven by abnormal sexual cravings, and lowering their testosterone diminishes those cravings," said Dr. Fred Berlin, an associate professor of psychiatry at the Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.


“a 1989 German study by Wille and Beier, for instance, compared 99 surgically castrated sex offenders and 35 non-castrated sex offenders about a decade after their release from prison, and found that the recidivism rate of castrated offenders was 3%, while the rate for non-castrated offenders was 46%. . . . studies by James Dabbs et al. (See Crime Times, Vol. 1, No. 3, Page 2 ) . . . strongly suggest a link between elevated testosterone levels and violence, delinquency, substance abuse, and prison rule violations.”

• Pornography's Relationship to Rape and Sexual Violence
  According to one study, early exposure (under fourteen years of age) to pornography is related to greater involvement in deviant sexual practice, particularly rape. Slightly more than one-third of the child molesters and rapists in this study claimed to have at least occasionally been incited to commit an offense by exposure to pornography. Among the child molesters incited, the study reported that 53 percent of them deliberately used the stimuli of pornography as they prepared to offend. [SIZE=-2]i[/SIZE]

Oh gee and the media has no effect on a raptist and what he does, when 53% of them are thinking about images from the media while they rape and commit sexual crimes? Oh well, maybe its just a coincidence.











The habitual consumption of pornography can result in a diminished satisfaction with mild forms of pornography and a correspondingly strong desire for more deviant and violent material.[SIZE=-2]ii[/SIZE]

• Pornography's Relationship to Child Molestation
  In a study of convicted child molesters, 77 percent of those who molested boys and 87 percent of those who molested girls admitted to the habitual use of pornography in the commission of their crimes.[SIZE=-2]iii[/SIZE] Besides stimulating the perpetrator, pornography facilitates child molestation in several ways. For example, pedophiles use pornographic photos to demonstrate to their victims what they want them to do. They also use them to arouse a child or to lower a child's inhibitions and communicate to the unsuspecting child that a particular sexual activity is okay: "This person is enjoying it; so will you."

http://www.protectkids.com/effects/harms.htm

Exposure to Pornography May Incite Children to Act Out
Sexually against Other Children

Children often imitate what they've seen, read, or heard. Studies suggest that exposure to pornography can prompt kids to act out sexually against younger, smaller, and more vulnerable children. Experts in the field of childhood sexual abuse report that any premature sexual activity in children always suggests two possible stimulants: experience and exposure. This means that the sexually deviant child may have been molested or simply exposed to sexuality through pornography.[SIZE=-2]viii[/SIZE]
In a study of six hundred American males and females of junior high school age and above, researcher Dr. Jennings Bryant found that 91 percent of the males and 82 percent of the females admitted having been exposed to X-rated, hard-core pornography. Over 66 percent of the males and 40 percent of the females reported wanting to try out some of the sexual behaviors they had witnessed. And among high schoolers, 31 percent of the males and 18 percent of the females admitted actually doing some of the things they had seen in the pornography within a few days after exposure.[SIZE=-2]ix[/SIZE]

And what comes next I wonder?


















Wide-spread economic fluctuations are not the only causes of rape in this context. Within any given community, poor men are far more likely to rape than middle- class and successful men:

• Surveys of the socioeconomic status of rapists in the United States indicate that the vast majority of offenders come from lower socioeconomic classes and are unemployed or unskilled laborers with only an elementary-school education or less. Cross-cultural studies from Denmark and Australia also confirm that unskilled, unemployed, and poorly educated males -- those who lose out in sexual competition -- are more often rapists than other men. The data suggest that rich men rarely rape, and that rapist and victim most often live in the same neighborhood (82 percent). According to one study, a female living in the inner city stands a one-in-seventy-seven chance of being raped in her life-time. In more affluent areas the risk becomes one in two thousand, and in a rich neighborhood she stands a one-in-ten-thousand chance of being raped. -- Sexual Strategies: How Females Choose Their Mates, by Mary Batten, pp 125 - 126
  
  http://www.bipolar-lives.com/manic-depression-and-sexual-crimes.html
  
  
  I noticed one person said that alcohol was a depressant. Well it all depends on the person. Alcohol dosen't always act as a depressant otherwise we wouldn't be seeing people get in fights and get obnoxious on alcohol. Alcohol in many people causes an increase in libido the same way cocaine and methamphetime does. If you don't know that, then you aren't living in reality.
  
  The mystery is that a man is more sexually active than a female. It is because a man has the sexual desire 33 times a week as compared to woman who has the sexual desire of only 9 times a week on an average.
  This means that on an average a man want to have sex around 5 times a day while a woman want to have sex just once in a day so a very high ratio of 5:1 prevails in the desire for sex.

Gee, I wonder why men rape more than women? hmmmmmmmm. Women(these days at least unfortunately) are just as power hungry as men are now. Shouldn't female rape be skyrocking these days?

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=2b633e7bba59a96c4f2f2effb978f9ed

Prior studies have found higher levels of testosterone among persons who commit violent crimes than among those who commit nonviolent crimes. The present study examined data from 230 male prison inmates to determine how testosterone levels might relate specifically to the way in which inmates committed their crimes. Characteristics of inmate behavior associated with murder, manslaughter, robbery, assault, rape, and child molestation were scored from parole board investigative reports, and inmate testosterone levels were assayed from saliva samples. Among inmates who committed homicide, those high in testosterone more often knew their victims and planned their crimes ahead of time. Testosterone was not related to these characteristics for other violent crimes.
http://www.corpus-delicti.com/comeaux_31999.html

About 40 percent of rapists report drinking before an intended rape. Groth said many do this as a way of blocking out their constant sexual thoughts, yet the alcohol only lessens their inhibitions.

Groth said drugs designed to diminish a person’s sexual urges and the need to rape have been in use since the 1970s. Depo Provera and Depo Lupron, when given to men in small doses, inhibits the production of testosterone and can stunt aggression.

Again if sex drive had nothing to do with rape why would they be using drugs like this that reduce sex drive on criminal rapists? ever think of that?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1997/09/970927110900.htm

Higher testosterone levels are related to criminal violence and aggressive dominance among women in prison, says a Georgia State University study released Sept. 23.

http://apublicdefender.com/2007/05/29/thoughts-on-chemical-castration/

The state is close to approving a Corrections Department budget that includes money to expand the state’s chemical castration program. If passed, the state would pay for high-risk sex offenders to receive twice-monthly shots of Depo-Provera, a testosterone-reducing drug.
Depo-Provera, originally developed as a contraceptive for women, creates sexual apathy in men by reducing the level of testosterone. European countries have used the drug since the 1960s to treat sex offenders. It’s less popular in the U.S., and Oregon is one of fewer than 10 states reported to have chemical castration laws
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Story?id=3985832&page=1


Some 65 percent of castrated sex offenders reported a drop in sex drive, according to a German study conducted in the 1960s, but 18 percent reported being able to function regularly 20 years after the procedure.
A 2005 study printed in the Journal of the American Academy of Psychology and the Law, found that between zero and 10 percent of sexual offenders who are surgically castrated repeat their crime.

That rate of recidivism in surgically castrated offenders is about the same as it for all sex offenders. According to the Department of Justice, 5.3 percent of all sex offenders were rearrested for another sex crime within three years of their release.



Now again, if sex drive has nothing to do with rape and sexual violence why is there a huge reduction in the percentage of future rape in offenders after they are castrated? Please answer me that one. If it was just power then these percentages should have remained the same and should not be lowered in such a dramatic fashion as they are after they are castrated. And why is the law using libido reducing drugs on rapists and sexual offenders if abnormaly high libido has nothing to do with rape? So please, stop talking out your 'you know what' and study some more. I'll wait for your evidence

*tick* * tock* *tick* tock*

Anyone who says rape is just about control or power obviously dosen't know anything about rape, the law or the psychology of a human being.

 

[sidhe]

From your own post, re: reducing sex drive via castration.

That rate of recidivism in surgically castrated offenders is about the same as it for all sex offenders. According to the Department of Justice, 5.3 percent of all sex offenders were rearrested for another sex crime within three years of their release.

In other words: even castrated, the sex offenders still committed their crimes.

As far as everything else...do you know the words "peer review"? Books are not peer-reviewed, and I didn't see anything else you posted having that credential, either.

Or, here's another phrase to look up - "correlation does not imply causation."

 

[CreedIsChrist]

From your own post, re: reducing sex drive via castration.


In other words: even castrated, the sex offenders still committed their crimes.

As far as everything else...do you know the words "peer review"? Books are not peer-reviewed, and I didn't see anything else you posted having that credential, either.


Or, here's another phrase to look up - "correlation does not imply causation."

they have much more credential than your hollow opinion. However this is expected, because once the evidence is given after you have asked you start attacking the evidence itself, which is typical in people with denial. This is one of the reasons why providing evidence dosen't work in debates.


you really didn't pay attention to anything that was posted did you. 3% compared to 46% in non castrated offenders. Do the math..


correlation does not equal causation = I can't bring up any evidence that supports my position and must cop out of the debate.

I have heard/read similar rapist apologetics from camps like Dobson, Pat Robertson, etc. They even claim Feminists don't respect women...know why? (This is scary logic) Because Feminists don't know God nor respect "The role God has planned for women." (Paraphrasing) The gist of the claim is Feminists are trying to overrule God on what functions women serve in our society. I wonder how many times guys like that go to bed wishing they were born in the 12th Century.

Feminists don't respect anything. They encourage everything that the bible is against and thus are Ungodly and worldly. They have such little respect for humans that they even support the killing of their own unborn. If feminists have such respect for womens rights howcome they are killing half of their future generation that are women. A righteous women is submissive and obedient to her husband and understands the role that God has placed over men and women. If a woman has a problem with that then she has a problem with God and will likely, like most of the secular world, end up in hell. The obnoxious feminist dosen't accept this and unfortunately women who have ideals like her cause alot of havoc on family, children and the divorce rates in the country.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

they have much more credential than your hollow opinion. However this is expected, because once the evidence is given after you have asked you start attacking the evidence itself, which is typical in people with denial. This is one of the reasons why providing evidence dosen't work in debates.


you really didn't pay attention to anything that was posted did you. 3% compared to 46% in non castrated offenders. Do the math..

You posted contradictory info:

the recidivism rate of castrated offenders was 3%, while the rate for non-castrated offenders was 46%. . . . studies by James Dabbs et al. (See Crime Times, Vol. 1, No. 3, Page 2 ) .

Compared to:

"That rate of recidivism in surgically castrated offenders is about the same as it for all sex offenders. According to the Department of Justice, 5.3 percent of all sex offenders were rearrested for another sex crime within three years of their release."

correlation does not equal causation = I can't bring up any evidence that supports my position and must cop out of the debate.




Feminists don't respect anything. They encourage everything that the bible is against and thus are Ungodly and worldly. They have such little respect for humans that they even support the killing of. their own unborn. If feminists have such respect for womens rights howcome they are killing half of their future generation that are women. A righteous women is submissive and obedient to her husband and understands the role that God has placed over men and women. The obnoxious feminist dosen't and unfortunatly women who have ideals like her cause alot of havoc on family and the divorce rates in the country.

Jesus was a Feminist. Would it be possible to make arguments without the defamation?

On a related note, I don't think it's an accident that we are seeing contempt for women from the same position that partially blames women for being raped while giving rapists endless scapegoats.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

CIC, would you be willing to have a one on one debate about Feminism? Iam sure if we asked others they would respect it is a debate between two people and not post until the debate is over.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

You posted contradictory info:

the recidivism rate of castrated offenders was 3%, while the rate for non-castrated offenders was 46%. . . . studies by James Dabbs et al. (See Crime Times, Vol. 1, No. 3, Page 2 ) .

Compared to:

"That rate of recidivism in surgically castrated offenders is about the same as it for all sex offenders. According to the Department of Justice, 5.3 percent of all sex offenders were rearrested for another sex crime within three years of their release."




Jesus was a Feminist. Would it be possible to make arguments without the defamation?

On a related note, I don't think it's an accident that we are seeing contempt for women from the same position that partially blames women for being raped while giving rapists endless scapegoats.

your grasping at straws now. your comparing 5% to 3%? a 2% difference in one study? Both studys show the rate extremely low in castrated offenders.

Feminism degrades women, it encourages murder and divorce, and I feel sad for the women who become entrenched in its ideals. A humble women who is obedient to her husband and cares for her children is a million times more respectable and real than a feminist. Feminists do not exude any type of respect or honor from themselves and society in general does not like them and consider they're ideals hurtful to familys, women and children. Their sickening support for abortion is enough in itself the show the true heart of they're own ideals.

Im not blaming women for being raped or reducing the culpability of rapists. I just posted I wasn't in my other post. The part you don't like is that im contributing the secular society to the increase and feeding of potential rapists, again someone dosen't just wake up one day and says "Gee, I think I'll rape someone",,and that things that are used to increase sex drive(pornography, sex education, encouraging birth control and abortion) can increase the chance of rape. I just gave you about 5articles showing that libido does have a factor in rape, if libido didn't, women would be raping at the same rate as men do.

 

[Bombila]

Exerpt:

Feminists don't respect anything. They encourage everything that the bible is against and thus are Ungodly and worldly. They have such little respect for humans that they even support the killing of their own unborn. If feminists have such respect for womens rights howcome they are killing half of their future generation that are women. A righteous women is submissive and obedient to her husband and understands the role that God has placed over men and women. If a woman has a problem with that then she has a problem with God and will likely, like most of the secular world, end up in hell. The obnoxious feminist dosen't accept this and unfortunately women who have ideals like her cause alot of havoc on family, children and the divorce rates in the country.

Astoundingly, on Christian Forums, there is likely not a word of this post which goes against the 'Guidelines' or is reportable. CiC broadbrushes and slanders a major segment of the world population of women, reduces the role of all women to that of slaves and baby factories, blames feminism for causing havoc in the world, and thinks he's being righteous. But that's okay because CiC is a Bible Believing Christian Man.

Ignoring women's reproductive and familial rights for the moment, and even ignoring CiC's 'go to hell if you don't want to be some man's slave' diatribe, he obviously has no idea of the enormous good feminism has meant for women in many parts of the world besides our own, has no idea of the kind of direct enculturated oppression women even in the Western world lived with before the feminist movement's widespread and hard-won successes, and wouldn't care if he did.

Shame on CF for enabling men who do not respect women or apparently even consider them equal to themselves, who make excuses for male rapists by blaming their victims, who while showing clearly their ignorance of even twentieth century history as it relates to women, denigrate that faction of women who have tried to raise their sisters from the dust.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Exerpt:

Astoundingly, on Christian Forums, there is likely not a word of this post which goes against the 'Guidelines' or is reportable. CiC broadbrushes and slanders a major segment of the world population of women, reduces the role of all women to that of slaves and baby factories, blames feminism for causing havoc in the world, and thinks he's being righteous. But that's okay because CiC is a Bible Believing Christian Man.

Ignoring women's reproductive and familial rights for the moment, and even ignoring CiC's 'go to hell if you don't want to be some man's slave' diatribe, he obviously has no idea of the enormous good feminism has meant for women in many parts of the world besides our own, has no idea of the kind of direct enculturated oppression women even in the Western world lived with before the feminist movement's widespread and hard-won successes, and wouldn't care if he did.

Shame on CF for enabling men who do not respect women or apparently even consider them equal to themselves, who make excuses for male rapists by blaming their victims, who while showing clearly their ignorance of even twentieth century history as it relates to women, denigrate that faction of women who have tried to raise their sisters from the dust.

WHy don't you goto the atheist forum then, or a feminist forum. Instead of going on a christian forum complaining about christian ideals. Don't act like you own this part of the forum and whine and cry when someone stands up to you. I never blamed the victims, i just posted I didn't. But I partly blamed the secular society and the way we raise our children for helping bring up such people. So don't put words in my mouth. If you would read my posts more carefully maybe you would understand more

And that is just your opinion anyway. In fact it shows that you have already been brainwashed by its ideals since you already view marriage as "slavery", which is horribly sad. Your views are degrading to marriage and to familys and to women who prefer to be home with they're children. A good number of people think feminism denigrates women, hurts children and familys and corrodes society. Don't think you can post your pro-abortion and other unchristian ideals and think someone is not gonna stand up to that. Your lucky you can even post pro-abortion ideals on a christian site without eventually getting banned. Don't push your luck, you don't see christians trying to take over atheist forums and whine to the mods when their feelings get hurt, the way the christian mods consider the opinions of non-christians here is exceptional compared to the way atheist forum mods will even CONSIDER a complaint from a christian registered on an atheist forum. People who come to christian forums solely to push obvious anti-christian ideals like abortion and feminism are sorely abusing their guest status on this site and need to stop pushing the line.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

your grasping at straws now. your comparing 5% to 3%? a 2% difference in one study? Both studys show the rate extremely low in castrated offenders.

Please read this line again:

"That rate of recidivism in surgically castrated offenders is about the same as it for all sex offenders."

That is saying castrated offenders re-offend with the same rates as non-castrated. Iam not comparing 5% to 3%, iam showing one source you posted contradicts another source. I will address the other info when I have more time...I need to research those studies cause they are really biased.

Feminism degrades women, it encourages murder and divorce, and I feel sad for the women who become entrenched in its ideals. A humble women who is obedient to her husband and cares for her children is a million times more respectable and real than a feminist. Feminists do not exude any type of respect or honor from themselves and society in general does not like them and consider they're ideals hurtful to familys, women and children. Their sickening support for abortion is enough in itself the show the true heart of they're own ideals.

Iam offering you a chance to support those claims in a clear one on one debate.

Im not blaming women for being raped or reducing the culpability of rapists. I just posted I wasn't in my other post. The part you don't like is that im contributing the secular society to the increase and feeding of potential rapists, again someone dosen't just wake up one day and says "Gee, I think I'll rape someone",,and that things that are used to increase sex drive(pornography, sex education, encouraging birth control and abortion) can increase the chance of rape. I just gave you about 5articles showing that libido does have a factor in rape, if libido didn't, women would be raping at the same rate as men do.

No, that is demonstrably false as you've blamed women for how they dress and blamed alcohol or sex drives as scapegoats for the rapists. I also agreed with you that the sexual objectification of women in our culture contributes to the violence but the difference is you are blaming the media for the crimes. Ironically, your position is objectifying of women that is no different that what is in the media. You reduce them to objects of a specific function, being submissive to men and that removes their autonomy. The media reduces them to sexual objects which also removes their autonomy. You use your version of God and the media uses sex. How one arrives at objectification is irrelevent.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

WHy don't you goto the atheist forum then, or a feminist forum. Instead of going on a christian forum complaining about christian ideals. Don't act like you own this part of the forum and whine and cry when someone stands up to you. I never blamed the victims, i just posted I didn't. But I partly blamed the secular society and the way we raise our children for helping bring up such people. So don't put words in my mouth. If you would read my posts more carefully maybe you would understand more

And that is just your opinion anyway. In fact it shows that you have already been brainwashed by its ideals since you already view marriage as "slavery", which is horribly sad. Your views are degrading to marriage and to familys and to women who prefer to be home with they're children. A good number of people think feminism denigrates women, hurts children and familys and corrodes society. Don't think you can post your pro-abortion and other unchristian ideals and think someone is not gonna stand up to that. Your lucky you can even post pro-abortion ideals on a christian site without eventually getting banned. Don't push your luck, you don't see christians trying to take over atheist forums and whine to the mods when their feelings get hurt, the way the christian mods consider the opinions of non-christians here is exceptional compared to the way atheist forum mods will even CONSIDER a complaint from a christian registered on an atheist forum.

Slandering women is a Christian ideal? Please do not portray your position as "Christian ideals" because this brother in Christ finds your accusations repulsive and completely void of love.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Slandering women is a Christian ideal? Please do not portray your position as "Christian ideals" because this brother in Christ finds your accusations repulsive and completely void of love.

I guess you do not follow the bible then. Because according to you then Paul and Timothy are even more 'repulsive" than me according to you.

1 Tim 2:8-11 — I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.​

1 Tim 3:14,15; 2:11-15 — These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. ... Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I [Paul, as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, with full authority of one inspired by God] suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.​

1 Pet 3:1-6 — Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives​

Eph 5:18, 22-24 — And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; ... Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.​

So when the apostle Paul talks in 11-12 corinthians about women being submissive to their husbands that is not christian ideals?

1: Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. 2: But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3: The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4: For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does - 1 Corinthians 7

1 Corinthians 11

3: But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5: but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head -- it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6: For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. 7: For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8: (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9: Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) 10: That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. 11: (Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12: for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.)

13: Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14: Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15: but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16: If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God. 17: But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse.

1 Corinthians 14*

33: ...As in all the churches of the saints, 34: the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. 35: If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36: What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 37: If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.

"Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, (Now science understands that women and men think differently and their bodies react differently and this is what is meant by this passage.) giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered." (1Peter 3:7)



The difference bwteen you and me, is that I will follow what God has to say. And if he says women have to be submissive to their husbands and meek then that is he word and so be it. So if you find that repulsive then you find God's word repulsive and are a hypocrite for claiming to be a brother in Christ when you don't even agree with what the apostles say. I agree that women need to be meek, humble, quiet, and supportive of their husbands. A loud abrasive women is totally at odds with God's word and is likely reprobate

If you truely saw the truth you would see that I am not slandering women, but feminism that slanders and hurts women.

​

 

[cantata]

CreedIsChrist, you seem to be quietly ignoring the fact that there are many men who are feminists.

My father, my male teachers at school, many of my male tutors at college, my boss at the jewellery shop in which I worked for two years, are all examples of men I know who share my feminist ideals. They do not feel trampled upon by feminism. They feel liberated by it. Feminism releases not just women, but also men, from the pressure to conform to traditional gender roles.

 

[cantata]

Double post.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I guess you do not follow the bible then. Because according to you then Paul and Timothy are even more 'repulsive" than me according to you.

1 Tim 2:8-11 — I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.​

1 Tim 3:14,15; 2:11-15 — These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. ... Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I [Paul, as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, with full authority of one inspired by God] suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.​

1 Pet 3:1-6 — Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives​

Eph 5:18, 22-24 — And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; ... Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.​

So when the apostle Paul talks in 11-12 corinthians about women being submissive to their husbands that is not christian ideals?

1: Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. It is well for a man not to touch a woman. 2: But because of the temptation to immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. 3: The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4: For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does; likewise the husband does not rule over his own body, but the wife does - 1 Corinthians 7

1 Corinthians 11

3: But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God. 4 Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5: but any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head -- it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6: For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair; but if it is disgraceful for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her wear a veil. 7: For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. 8: (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9: Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.) 10: That is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head, because of the angels. 11: (Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12: for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God.)

13: Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14: Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15: but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16: If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God. 17: But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse.

1 Corinthians 14*

33: ...As in all the churches of the saints, 34: the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. 35: If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. 36: What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 37: If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord.

"Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, (Now science understands that women and men think differently and their bodies react differently and this is what is meant by this passage.) giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered." (1Peter 3:7)



The difference bwteen you and me, is that I will follow what God has to say. And if he says women have to be submissive to their husbands and meek then that is he word and so be it. So if you find that repulsive then you find God's word repulsive and are a hypocrite for claiming to be a brother in Christ when you don't even agree with what the apostles say. I agree that women need to be meek, humble, quiet, and supportive of their husbands. A loud abrasive women is totally at odds with God's word and is likely reprobate

If you truely saw the truth you would see that I am not slandering women, but feminism that slanders and hurts women.

​

Was my post read? Here it is again:

Slandering women is a Christian ideal? Please do not portray your position as "Christian ideals" because this brother in Christ finds your accusations repulsive and completely void of love.,

(Although I disagree)I never said the theological position is repulsive. It's clear I was speaking about slander since my post began with "SLANDERING." So please refrain from call me a hypocrite because a post was mis-read.

As for the cited verses, none of them carry a universal rule. You are not addressing a couple of fundamental aspects. Paul was trying to settle quarrels in certain areas and he was not subjecting women in the way that view is being thrust upon the text. Paul also worked with MANY FEMALE CHURCH LEADERS. If he truly was claiming women were to be submissive he would not have worked with and recognized women as an authority in the church.

Jesus was the first male Feminist of Christianity and if you read Mark as a whole you will see Jesus never had to correct women. In fact, he praised women for understanding his teachings while at the same time castigating the male disciples for not understanding his message. At the Resurrection, it was not men who first met Christ, it was a woman. It was not women who ran and hid while Christ was being Crucified, it was the men. The women remained Faithful. It was women who took the Good News of the Resurrection to the men who hid in fear. It was women who helped spread the Good News throughout the world. It was a woman who took the Good News to lands as far away as where France is today. It was women who freely gave their money to support the mission of sharing the Good News so before anyone comes along and tries to preach a theology of female submission before men they need to come with something stronger than bubble gum exegesis. Our Sisters in Christ are our equals, not objects of domination!

Eta: Was it a woman or a man who, standing face to face with the Risen Christ, still did not believe?