Anti-rape device

[RealDealNeverstop]

I shouldn't think they believe they're alive.

But besides, do people involved with animistic folk religions have something wrong with them mentally?

But they inherently state they are alive by claiming a "relationship." One cannot have a relationship with an object of derivative purpose incapable of consent.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Well, the post blamed everything but the rapists. Those listed things are merely scapegoats...the fact they are traditional is irrelevent. No different than when it was traditional to believe the earth was flat. Did people balking at the assertion of a round earth change the fact it wasn't round?

Hey, I was feeling generous and just giving him the benefit of the doubt

 

[stan1980]

Here is my take on the whole "is rape about sex or power" argument...

You get people in life who are extremely submissive and extremely dominant, plus everything in between, that is, they get sexually turned on being submissive or dominant. I'd imagine a serial rapist would lie somewhere near the extreme end of dominant (note, not all dominant people are rapists!). So yes, it is about power but it is also about sex. To say it isn't about sex is incredibly naive I think. The proof is, if you took away someone's sex drive I'm pretty certain they wouldn't rape anyone or even want to rape anyone (and not just because they can't get an erection!). Modern medicine may yet prove me right.

 

[praying]

Rape is about dominance and that dominance just happens to be expressed sexually. It is not all about sex for pleasure.

 

[stan1980]

Rape is about dominance and that dominance just happens to be expressed sexually. It is not all about sex for pleasure.

I would say pleasure plays a major part. If the rapist didn't think he was going to get pleasure from it, he wouldn't do it!

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Here is my take on the whole "is rape about sex or power" argument...

You get people in life who are extremely submissive and extremely dominant, plus everything in between, that is, they get sexually turned on being submissive or dominant. I'd imagine a serial rapist would lie somewhere near the extreme end of dominant (note, not all dominant people are rapists!). So yes, it is about power but it is also about sex. To say it isn't about sex is incredibly naive I think. The proof is, if you took away someone's sex drive I'm pretty certain they wouldn't rape anyone or even want to rape anyone (and not just because they can't get an erection!). Modern medicine may yet prove me right.

Sex drive is not what causes rape. It's because someone is too horny. There is no comparison between S/M relationships and rapists because those relationships are based on CONSENT prior to activity and sometimes includes a "Safe word" so if one person gets scared they say that safe word and the other person knows to immediately stop. Rape victims have no Safe word because they did not consent in anyway.

Here's a decent link and there are tons out there about the many myths of rape.
http://www.coolnurse.com/rape.htm

 

[praying]

I would say pleasure plays a major part. If the rapist didn't think he was going to get pleasure from it, he wouldn't do it!

The pleasure comes from the dominance.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

I would say pleasure plays a major part. If the rapist didn't think he was going to get pleasure from it, he wouldn't do it!

Rapists don't derive pleasure from the sexual act. The pleasure is from torturing another person using sex as the means.

If I robbed a store with an un-loaded gun but took the money would you say the robbery was based more on me taking the chance of using an empty gun than it was about the money? Of course not! For the rapist, his money torturing another human being. How he does it is irrelevent in terms of understanding the dynamics of rape.

 

[stan1980]

The dominance is part of the sexual act, and you've both said that the rapist derives pleasure from it, so I don't see where the argument is here, so I stand by what I said, pleasure plays a major role.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Here is my take on the whole "is rape about sex or power" argument...

You get people in life who are extremely submissive and extremely dominant, plus everything in between, that is, they get sexually turned on being submissive or dominant. I'd imagine a serial rapist would lie somewhere near the extreme end of dominant (note, not all dominant people are rapists!). So yes, it is about power but it is also about sex. To say it isn't about sex is incredibly naive I think. The proof is, if you took away someone's sex drive I'm pretty certain they wouldn't rape anyone or even want to rape anyone (and not just because they can't get an erection!). Modern medicine may yet prove me right.

Interestingly it is found most serial rapists have no power or dominance in life, and therefore need to find it in sex, hence raping. Usually they have low end jobs or cannot keep jobs, have little respect and bad relationships. Not always, but as a stereotype. They then try to get control through rape and feeling the power surge that way.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Sex drive is not what causes rape. It's because someone is too horny. There is no comparison between S/M relationships and rapists because those relationships are based on CONSENT prior to activity and sometimes includes a "Safe word" so if one person gets scared they say that safe word and the other person knows to immediately stop. Rape victims have no Safe word because they did not consent in anyway.

Here's a decent link and there are tons out there about the many myths of rape.
http://www.coolnurse.com/rape.htm

I don't think he meant S/M or D/s or BDSM (although I could be mistaken?) with the whole dominance and submissive roles. I think he was saying some people are overly dominant and need to use this through sex as a form of rape. I don't agree necessarily but see where he's coming from, I just look at it a bit differently. Typically I think rapists have little power and feel small in life, and desire to have this dominance in sex, getting pleasure that way because it makes them feel in control and all powerful when they really are not.

 

[stan1980]

Interestingly it is found most serial rapists have no power or dominance in life, and therefore need to find it in sex, hence raping. Usually they have low end jobs or cannot keep jobs, have little respect and bad relationships. Not always, but as a stereotype. They then try to get control through rape and feeling the power surge that way.

Yes, all probably true, when I talk about submissiveness and dominance, I mean specifically in a sexual way. I realise a lot of people who are submissive in everyday life can enjoy being dominant in the bedroom, and vice versa.

I don't think he meant S/M or D/s or BDSM (although I could be mistaken?) with the whole dominance and submissive roles. I think he was saying some people are overly dominant and need to use this through sex as a form of rape. I don't agree necessarily but see where he's coming from, I just look at it a bit differently. Typically I think rapists have little power and feel small in life, and desire to have this dominance in sex, getting pleasure that way because it makes them feel in control and all powerful when they really are not.

Again, I'm not really referring to someone's dominance or submissiveness in everyday life, only during sex or sexual acts. RealDeal jumped the gun a bit though by assuming I think that rape is an act people in the BDSM scene carry out commonly. I don't think that.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

The dominance is part of the sexual act, and you've both said that the rapist derives pleasure from it, so I don't see where the argument is here, so I stand by what I said, pleasure plays a major role.

That's backwards...the sex is an accidental part of the dominance. It is derivative and coincidental, not the cause nor the goal.

I have said the rapist derives pleasure from the dominance. I have never said the pleasure is from the sex so let's try to keep it straight to avoid confusion please.

 

[stan1980]

That's backwards...the sex is an accidental part of the dominance. It is derivative and coincidental, not the cause nor the goal.

I have said the rapist derives pleasure from the dominance. I have never said the pleasure is from the sex so let's try to keep it straight to avoid confusion please.

Well I'm saying the dominance is all part of the sexual act. I'm not even sure if you read my posts properly as this is all getting pretty tiresome.

 

[stan1980]

Incidentally, I watched a TV documentary where convicted paedophiles (who were in prison) volunteered to take a new drug that takes away your sex drive. The prisoners reported that all urges to rape or molest children had now gone, and they were pretty confident that upon release they would no longer be a danger to society. This would suggest that your sex drive does play a major role in rape.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Well I'm saying the dominance is all part of the sexual act. I'm not even sure if you read my posts properly as this is all getting pretty tiresome.

Where have I mis-read your posts? Here you are saying the dominance is all PART of the sex act. Correct? Firstly, it is not a "sex act" because in a sex act there needs to be consent. Secondly, that is why iam saying it is backwards...you are putting the "sex act" at the center saying that the dominance is all PART of that. The dominance is the reason for the rape and it is an accident of life that the most vile form of degradation is sexual criminal behavior.

 

[stan1980]

Where have I mis-read your posts? Here you are saying the dominance is all PART of the sex act. Correct? Firstly, it is not a "sex act" because in a sex act there needs to be consent. Secondly, that is why iam saying it is backwards...you are putting the "sex act" at the center saying that the dominance is all PART of that. The dominance is the reason for the rape and it is an accident of life that the most vile form of degradation is sexual criminal behavior.

Ah, this brings back memories, are you the one that started that massive thread saying being a paedophile isn't an orientation because there is no consent? We're not going to agree, and this will go on for pages, so I'm going to stop in my tracks now and agree to disagree.

 

[RealDealNeverstop]

Yes, all probably true, when I talk about submissiveness and dominance, I mean specifically in a sexual way. I realise a lot of people who are submissive in everyday life can enjoy being dominant in the bedroom, and vice versa.



Again, I'm not really referring to someone's dominance or submissiveness in everyday life, only during sex or sexual acts. RealDeal jumped the gun a bit though by assuming I think that rape is an act people in the BDSM scene carry out commonly. I don't think that.

I didn't assume you think rape is an act in bdsm...my point was to say rape and bdsm are two completely different worlds because the former is absent of consent while the latter centers around consent.

You said rapists are like on the extreme end of those who play the dominant role. From post 85:

"...they [people] get sexually turned on being submissive or dominant. I'd imagine a serial rapist would lie somewhere near the extreme end of dominant (note, not all dominant people are rapists!)"

Iam arguing against the assertion rapists can be extrapolated from S/M relationships. Often, people in positions of power at work/other areas of their lives seek the submissive role in S/M relationships so that is another reason why S/M relationships cannot be used as a barometer for rapists.

The underlying tone there is to try and keep "sex" at the center of rape. Try to formulate an understanding of rape in terms of power and leave "sex" out of the equation. Once that is done it will be seen S/M relationships cannot in any way be placed in the same room with rapists. S/M fans are all consenting adults. Rape victims do not participate in a "sex act" because they get raped, they don't have sex because they didn't consent.

 

[wanderingone]

Incidentally, I watched a TV documentary where convicted paedophiles (who were in prison) volunteered to take a new drug that takes away your sex drive. The prisoners reported that all urges to rape or molest children had now gone, and they were pretty confident that upon release they would no longer be a danger to society. This would suggest that your sex drive does play a major role in rape.

Pedophiles are an entirely different matter. They ARE sexually attracted to children. There are rapists who prey on children who aren't really pedophiles, they just want to torture the easiest target. If one is acting on sexual attraction then yes drugs will help reduce the liklihood that the individual will seek out sexual activity. If one is acting out of rage and a desire for power not found elsewhere then chances are the offender on meds will still find a method to abuse and humiliate... to make victims out of someone.

 

[wanderingone]

Here is my take on the whole "is rape about sex or power" argument...

You get people in life who are extremely submissive and extremely dominant, plus everything in between, that is, they get sexually turned on being submissive or dominant. I'd imagine a serial rapist would lie somewhere near the extreme end of dominant (note, not all dominant people are rapists!). So yes, it is about power but it is also about sex. To say it isn't about sex is incredibly naive I think. The proof is, if you took away someone's sex drive I'm pretty certain they wouldn't rape anyone or even want to rape anyone (and not just because they can't get an erection!). Modern medicine may yet prove me right.

Once again I point to the fact that many rapists are not able to become fully erect or [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]... fairly often the DNA found during rape exams indicate limited [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]... or no sperm at all. You may imagine a serial rapists to be somewhere toward the dominant but you'd be wrong. Serial rapists are usually not about S & M (which is an entirely different matter) They are not seeking a way to exert their dominant sexual nature- in fact fairly often they have pretty benign sex lives- they are seeking a way to humiliate for sure, but they would choose whatever act allows them to humiliate as pointed out earlier in the thread.