Poll - Once Saved Always Saved

[MamaZ]

If Christ saves you how can you be unsaved? For it is not by works of righteousness that any man can say he is saved.. Christs rightouesness is imputed to us. It is when one falls from grace that they think they have to work to stay saved.
Rom 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Rom 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
Rom 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
Rom 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;
Rom 8:34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
Rom 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
Rom 8:37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Ormly]

If Christ saves you how can you be unsaved? For it is not by works of righteousness that any man can say he is saved.. Christs rightouesness is imputed to us. It is when one falls from grace that they think they have to work to stay saved.
Rom 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
Rom 8:16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
Rom 8:17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.
Rom 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.
Rom 8:19 For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
Rom 8:21 that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For in hope we have been saved, but hope that is seen is not hope; for who hopes for what he already sees?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for what we do not see, with perseverance we wait eagerly for it.
Rom 8:26 In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;
Rom 8:27 and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Rom 8:28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
Rom 8:30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Rom 8:31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
Rom 8:32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?
Rom 8:33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;
Rom 8:34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
Rom 8:35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 Just as it is written, "FOR YOUR SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
Rom 8:37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Are works of righteous NECESSARILLY to be thought of as strictly being performed for salvation? Paul isn't implying that when speaking of it. He is making a distinction between works of righteous that can't save anyone however, they are expected from those who are saved. Do you want to now accuse those, in Christ, who perform works of righteous as being, "self-righteous"; fallen from grace?

 

[MamaZ]

Are works of righteous NECESSARILLY to be thought of as strictly being performed for salvation? Paul isn't implying that when speaking of it. He is making a distinction between works of righteous that can't save anyone however, they are expected from those who are saved. Do you want to now accuse those, in Christ, who perform works of righteous as being, "self-righteous"; fallen from grace?

When it comes from a form of if you do not do this that you can be lost then is it works of righteousness or is it works for justification? It depends on the motive of the heart. If one goes and does a work being spurred by the Love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit then that is the fruit of our salvation. But if these works are to done to prove that you are more holy than the others then as Jesus said.. The one that bowed His head and prayed God forgive me a sinner. He went away more justified than the one who because of his works of righteousness thought he had it in the bag.

 

[Ormly]

When it comes from a form of if you do not do this that you can be lost then is it works of righteousness or is it works for justification? It depends on the motive of the heart. If one goes and does a work being spurred by the Love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit then that is the fruit of our salvation. But if these works are to done to prove that you are more holy than the others then as Jesus said.. The one that bowed His head and prayed God forgive me a sinner. He went away more justified than the one who because of his works of righteousness thought he had it in the bag.

This is very elementary stuff that a person in Christ will have no problem disciphering. The question should be how do we get the mind of God so there can no mistake about what motivates us to works of righteousness. A result of not having His Mind can lead to interfering with what God is attempting to work out in a person we wish to "bless" because we see the need.

 

[MamaZ]

Does the scriptue say we need to get the mind of Christ?

 

[Ormly]

Does the scriptue say we need to get the mind of Christ?

Yes

 

[A Brother In Christ]

Quoted by PaladinGirl:
I'd like to change my vote. I do believe in once saved always saved.
​

Which one?

1. Antinomianism --- salvation is a RELATIONSHIP, and need not be FELLOWSHIP with God; though the body is dead and walking in fornication, and/or drunkenness, and/or robbery/reviling/carousing, the SPIRIT is saved and will go to Heaven.

2. Calvinism --- God chooses a few, regenerates them and THEN they turn to Him and believe. Those whom God does not choose, never seek Him; their wills are bound to their natures.

3. Eternal security --- atonement is unlimited, ALL men are sincerely called to salvation. But once "in", either their hearts are too changed TO disbelieve, or God dynamically interferes in PREVENTING apostasy (sometimes even causing physical death that their souls be saved).

Which do you hold, "PaladinGirl"? And where in Scripture do you find it?

eph 2:3-9 .... look at the grace of God

one person believes the Good News....

20 other reject the Good News... like matt 7:21-23

 

[A Brother In Christ]

John1:13 says the BEGOTTENNESS is all of God and nothing of men.

What does verse TWELVE say?

"As many as RECEIVED Christ, to THEM He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who BELIEVED on His name".

"Begotten", is of God.
"BECOMING begotten", is by believing and receiving Jesus.

Can you reject this?

No man searches for God romans 3:10 or 11

God Calls His sheep ...they hear ... and believe john 10:26 or 27

the Good News is cast forth the unelect here it reject it freely act 13:46-48 ... Satan blinds them to the value. 2 cor 4:3-6 .. thus more judgement is upon them that reject more revealing of God's word Matt ..??..

 

[Ormly]

No man searches for God romans 3:10 or 11

God Calls His sheep ...they hear ... and believe john 10:26 or 27

the Good News is cast forth the unelect here it reject it freely act 13:46-48 ... Satan blinds them to the value. 2 cor 4:3-6 .. thus more judgement is upon them that reject more revealing of God's word Matt ..??..

Who is the "no man" who doesn't search for God?

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Jhn 6:37 "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
Jhn 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Jhn 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
Jhn 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

So if one can "lose their salvation", then Jesus has lost one who was given to Him. Those who reject eternal security ultimately end up rejecting Christ's ability to fulfill the Father's will, which is that He lose none who were given to Him. Anyone who becomes saved has been given to Him, so if one is lost, then Christ has failed.

 

[A Brother In Christ]

No man searches for God romans 3:10 or 11

God Calls His sheep ...they hear ... and believe john 10:26 or 27

the Good News is cast forth the unelect here it reject it freely act 13:46-48 ... Satan blinds them to the value. 2 cor 4:3-6 .. thus more judgement is upon them that reject more revealing of God's word Matt ..??..

Who is the "no man" who doesn't search for God?

unsaved man..... ....

enoch had a personel relationship when a person could talk to God face to face...

even then John 3:19 aplys

 

[MamaZ]

Yes

Where?

 

[Ormly]

unsaved man..... ....

You mean all the men of the OT? All righteous men blameless in God's sight? You ought to think that one through alittle more carefully.

enoch had a personel relationship when a person could talk to God face to face...

Enoch waked with God. It doesn't say he talked face to face with Him. You assume much from little written and can support little from the reading of it, but why twist the scriptures? What's the point of doing that?

even then John 3:19 aplys

It can only apply if that were a unversal statement made about ALL men. It isn't therefore, you are mis-understanding the passage. Why not try getting it right before putting stock in it?

 

[Ormly]

Where?

27 Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;
Philippians 1:27 (KJV)
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
1 Corinthians 2:15-16 (KJV)
10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
1 Corinthians 1:10 (KJV)
5 Now the God of patience and consolation grant you to be likeminded one toward another according to Christ Jesus:
6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 15:5-6 (KJV)
How's that?

 

[MamaZ]

Well from what I understand is that we have the mind of Christ. Not that we seek the mind of Christ. I also see that we are to renew our minds to rid it of the worlds way and bring our minds into subjection to the written scriptures..

 

[Ormly]

Well from what I understand is that we have the mind of Christ. Not that we seek the mind of Christ. I also see that we are to renew our minds to rid it of the worlds way and bring our minds into subjection to the written scriptures..

Whose we? How does one know who "We" is? Do "We" have the Mind of Christ by Osmosus or is there not something more for "us" to do to receive it? What is the price to be payed by "us" for receiving His Mind?

 

[MamaZ]

Those of us who are born again children of God have the minds of Christ. Why do we? Because we are new creations in Christ.. The old has passed away and all things have become new..

 

[chestertonrules]

Those of us who are born again children of God have the minds of Christ. Why do we? Because we are new creations in Christ.. The old has passed away and all things have become new..

You and I both know from personal experience that his is not true.

I know many people who have been born again only to reject God and his will for the rest of their lives.

Perseverence is our task, and we can do it with God's grace.

 

[Ormly]

Those of us who are born again children of God have the minds of Christ. Why do we? Because we are new creations in Christ.. The old has passed away and all things have become new..

O, so it is by osmosus. How do "we" know "we" have it since I also know a bunch who are born again and who don't have the time of day in the scheme of things. Singing in the choir is their understanding of serving God.

 

[MamaZ]

You and I both know from personal experience that his is not true.

I know many people who have been born again only to reject God and his will for the rest of their lives.

Perseverence is our task, and we can do it with God's grace.

Actually I know from personal experience that this is to be true. For once I was born again my whole life changed. I too had the mind of Christ.. I too dug into the scriptures and for the first time ever I was able to understand what God was saying to me through His word.. My desire for God Grew..