Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[GregoryTurner]

I can see why this is such a debatable topic for Jesus said

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

 

[KCDAD]

I believe in God, not in chance

You believe in nothing. You just make up your little fantasies and try and twist Christian teachings into what your fantasy is.

 

[KCDAD]

The Bible is clear:

"as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." ( 2 Peter 3:16 )

"But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised." ( 1 Corinthians 2:14 )

YAQUBOS†

As good a self description as I have ever read anyone post.
Only a fool would post this and not realize that it applies to himself.

 

[GregoryTurner]

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

I encourage you to be very careful, sir

 

[KCDAD]

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

I encourage you to be very careful, sir

Do you even know what RACA means?

Don't threaten me... it is ugly since you have nothing to threaten me with.

I repeat: Anyone who would post either of those verse as if they applied to someone other than them self is a fool. If the shoe fits...

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Animals???

I thought this was about baptism's neccesity for salvation?!?!?!?!

You're surprised that a thread of 50 pages (and note the (2) in the thread's title) has ranged a little further than the original question? Assuming you haven't read the entire thread (and fair enough -- it's long and much of it pointlessly tedious), the recent discussion about animals came about something like this:

1) two sides are arguing about the question at hand (salvation etc), both quoting scripture that they claim supports their position
2) pretty soon this leads into meta discussion on scripture and its interpretation
3) differing views emerge, one of which is that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, dictated verbatim and unchanged throughout time
4) in support of that position, KCDAD made a statement about the "contradictions in the Bible"
5) Yaqubos, despite his overly dramatic protestations of innocence, and accusations of others derailing the thread, was actually the one who challenged KCDAD to provide an example of a contradiction (and then proceeded to argue the point)
6) The example produced was Gen 1 and 2: 1 clearly states that Man was created after the animals; 2... let's say "suggests" that God created Adam, then the animals to be a helper for him
7) Argument about interpretation thus ensued

Now you know... whether you care is another matter...

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Ah, Yaqubos... you're dadaist ramblings never fail to entertain. You are indeed an artist.

I am glad that some people are not being able not to read this thread ( not naming any names!! )

I'm sure you're being incredibly witty and clever here. You must be, since you even have a smiley to prove it. And, of course, everything you say is witty and clever (as we've seen). But, you see, your immense brilliance is lost on someone as slow and ignorant as I: to me, it just looks like a pointless and convoluted sentence about nothing. Are you suggesting that I'm incapable of not reading this thread? Because how exactly would you prove that? And, even if that was the case... so what? What would be the point in signing up for CF if I wasn't going to read posts? See? Clearly the subtleties of your rapier insight are lost on my pedestrian intellect.

The Bible is clear:

Aaaand you continue to keep up your prodigious output of the same chronologically advanced bovine excreta. How do you do it? You're a legend!

The Bible is clear... in stating that it's not clear.

Absolute genius! I truly stand in awe.

And, of course, as for actually addressing the points I made... well, I know you well enough by now to realize that that's just not going to happen. I mean, some people might think about your reply, especially the underlined words "hard to understand", and wonder just how that's supposed to negate my point about why a loving and omnipotent God would make His Word so ambiguous. They'd probably come to the conclusion that it doesn't. At all. But that's just because it doesn't. Stupid "logic"! What use is it? They just don't appreciate Art when they see it. But I do. Really, I do. That's why I hope that you're going to give me the reason God presented all the animals to Adam. I'm a little worried you're going to take an easy way out, but I have faith in you.

Carthago delenda est!

 

[YAQUBOS]

I can see why this is such a debatable topic for Jesus said

Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

N.B.: We are not discussing here the baptism of John, but the Christian baptism.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

You're surprised that a thread of 50 pages (and note the (2) in the thread's title) has ranged a little further than the original question? Assuming you haven't read the entire thread (and fair enough -- it's long and much of it pointlessly tedious), the recent discussion about animals came about something like this:

1) two sides are arguing about the question at hand (salvation etc), both quoting scripture that they claim supports their position
2) pretty soon this leads into meta discussion on scripture and its interpretation
3) differing views emerge, one of which is that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, dictated verbatim and unchanged throughout time
4) in support of that position, KCDAD made a statement about the "contradictions in the Bible"
5) Yaqubos, despite his overly dramatic protestations of innocence, and accusations of others derailing the thread, was actually the one who challenged KCDAD to provide an example of a contradiction (and then proceeded to argue the point)
6) The example produced was Gen 1 and 2: 1 clearly states that Man was created after the animals; 2... let's say "suggests" that God created Adam, then the animals to be a helper for him
7) Argument about interpretation thus ensued

Now you know... whether you care is another matter...

Christian baptism is taught in the Word of God. If you want to discuss anything else, you can go discuss it in another place, because this thread is about baptism.

You already said that you don't believe in the Bible, so according to you no need to be baptized. Well, thank you for your answer.

As for me challenging anyone here and replying to your questions, it's because I respect your thirst for answers. But all the time I am telling you to open another thread about each new topic you begin. Actually, in the beginning, KCDAD was asking about the same things that we are discussing here. I asked him to open a new thread, and he did. But he was not pleased to find the answers there, so he wished to continue the discussion of those topics here

Now, back to the topic

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

You're surprised that a thread of 50 pages (and note the (2) in the thread's title) has ranged a little further than the original question? Assuming you haven't read the entire thread (and fair enough -- it's long and much of it pointlessly tedious), the recent discussion about animals came about something like this:

1) two sides are arguing about the question at hand (salvation etc), both quoting scripture that they claim supports their position
2) pretty soon this leads into meta discussion on scripture and its interpretation
3) differing views emerge, one of which is that the Bible is not the inerrant Word of God, dictated verbatim and unchanged throughout time
4) in support of that position, KCDAD made a statement about the "contradictions in the Bible"
5) Yaqubos, despite his overly dramatic protestations of innocence, and accusations of others derailing the thread, was actually the one who challenged KCDAD to provide an example of a contradiction (and then proceeded to argue the point)
6) The example produced was Gen 1 and 2: 1 clearly states that Man was created after the animals; 2... let's say "suggests" that God created Adam, then the animals to be a helper for him
7) Argument about interpretation thus ensued

Now you know... whether you care is another matter...

WONderful summary... ever think of becoming an editor?

 

[GregoryTurner]

Do you even know what RACA means?

Don't threaten me... it is ugly since you have nothing to threaten me with.

I repeat: Anyone who would post either of those verse as if they applied to someone other than them self is a fool. If the shoe fits...

Hello? You did not say to anyone, Raca, you called someone a fool. Come on...

 

[GregoryTurner]

N.B.: We are not discussing here the baptism of John, but the Christian baptism.

YAQUBOS†

Hello? Do you even read scripture?...
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This verse that I posted was about the baptism of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and to whom Christianity is based.

 

[GregoryTurner]

Do you even know what RACA means?

Don't threaten me... it is ugly since you have nothing to threaten me with.

I repeat: Anyone who would post either of those verse as if they applied to someone other than them self is a fool. If the shoe fits...

Also, it was not a threat, brother. It was a help to keep a brother from stumbling in the way. Jesus said to call someone a fool is in danger of hellfire. Not meant to be anything other than the fact that you are a brother in Christ and I love you for that.

No, I have no idea what Raca means. That part of that verse was not what I was saying. It has offered me a challenge, however, to see what that meaning is. So far, I have found it to be a term of insult.

 

[Soul Searcher]

Also, it was not a threat, brother. It was a help to keep a brother from stumbling in the way. Jesus said to call someone a fool is in danger of hellfire. Not meant to be anything other than the fact that you are a brother in Christ and I love you for that.

No, I have no idea what Raca means. That part of that verse was not what I was saying. It has offered me a challenge, however, to see what that meaning is. So far, I have found it to be a term of insult.

I read somewhere that in those times to call someone a fool was to say they worshiped a false God and such a claim demanded proof. If the person who made the claim could prove it then the person accused was executed and thrown into the fires of gehenna and if the charge could not be proven then the accuser would suffer that fate instead. If this is true then it was likely quite literal and had nothing to do with what we mean when calling someone a fool nor anything related to what we call hell.

 

[PattyOfurniture]

I read somewhere that in those times to call someone a fool was to say they worshiped a false God and such a claim demanded proof. If the person who made the claim could prove it then the person accused was executed and thrown into the fires of gehenna and if the charge could not be proven then the accuser would suffer that fate instead. If this is true then it was likely quite literal and had nothing to do with what we mean when calling someone a fool nor anything related to what we call hell.

i think theres even more to that thing.if not Solomon is in the "hellfire"(God forbid)

 

[GregoryTurner]

Ive never read that. I've just always refrained from calling anyone any names near to that for 2 reasons, because it was in the Bible and that is not how I want myself nor my brothers treated. To me that is the same thing as thinking yourself better than other and we are to love each other as ourselves.

 

[GregoryTurner]

Interesting to know though, thank you .

 

[KCDAD]

Hello? You did not say to anyone, Raca, you called someone a fool. Come on...

So you don't know? Raca means to spit on someone. I didn't write he was a fool (in that particular post, although I think I have in the past) but allowed him to call himself one.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Hello? Do you even read scripture?...
Mat 3:14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?
Mat 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

This verse that I posted was about the baptism of Jesus Christ, the Son of God and to whom Christianity is based.

Yes, the verse you quoted is about the baptism of Jesus Christ with the baptism of John. But in this thread we are not discussing the baptism of John, but the Christian baptism.

YAQUBOS†

 

[YAQUBOS]

Ive never read that. I've just always refrained from calling anyone any names near to that for 2 reasons, because it was in the Bible and that is not how I want myself nor my brothers treated. To me that is the same thing as thinking yourself better than other and we are to love each other as ourselves.

Did you say that we must discuss baptism in this thread??

YAQUBOS†