Is baptism necessary to be saved? (2)

[YAQUBOS]

GEHENNA IS THE VALLEY OF BEN HINNOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, and Jerusalem is a city in Palestine. But I am not talking about that city nor about that valley. I am talking about the eternal Gehenna, the unquenchable fire, the lake of fire.

I thought you were pretending to understand GREEK.

There is no Jerusalem "above". It is a METAPHOR for the Kingdom of God..

"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband." ( Revelation 21:2 )

So the Kingdom of God is not a metaphor

EXACTLY like Gehenna is a METAPHOR for spiritual separation from God.

NEITHER metaphor refers to any place... it is a physical metaphor for a spiritual reality.

So eternal hell is indeed a spiritual REALITY. The eternal unquenchable fire is in fact a spiritual REALITY. And, as you know, there is a resurrection for the righteous and the unrighteous:

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment." ( John 5:28-29 )

So, if you don't repent and believe the Gospel, you will rise in the resurrection of eternal judgment. That resurrection means you will have a risen body in which you will be tormented forever and ever in the unquenchable fire, the lake of fire, eternal hell.

So thank you for finally admitting that hell is a spiritual REALITY. Please, don't go there.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Yes, and Jerusalem is a city in Palestine. But I am not talking about that city nor about that valley. I am talking about the eternal Gehenna, the unquenchable fire, the lake of fire.







"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband." ( Revelation 21:2 )

So the Kingdom of God is not a metaphor



So eternal hell is indeed a spiritual REALITY. The eternal unquenchable fire is in fact a spiritual REALITY. And, as you know, there is a resurrection for the righteous and the unrighteous:

"Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice,
and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment." ( John 5:28-29 )

So, if you don't repent and believe the Gospel, you will rise in the resurrection of eternal judgment. That resurrection means you will have a risen body in which you will be tormented forever and ever in the unquenchable fire, the lake of fire, eternal hell.

So thank you for finally admitting that hell is a spiritual REALITY. Please, don't go there.

YAQUBOS†

You think a city is going to come down from the sky?

 

[YAQUBOS]

You think a city is going to come down from the sky?

No, not from the sky, but from Heaven.

A spiritual city will come down from Heaven. And all who are risen in the resurrection of life will live in it forever.

And those who are risen in the resurrection of judgment will be outside that city forever, in the eternal Gehenna, the lake of fire:

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying." ( Revelation 22:14-15 )

"For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come." ( Hebrews 13:14 )

May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

No, not from the sky, but from Heaven.

A spiritual city will come down from Heaven. And all who are risen in the resurrection of life will live in it forever.

And those who are risen in the resurrection of judgment will be outside that city forever, in the eternal Gehenna, the lake of fire:

"Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.
Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying." ( Revelation 22:14-15 )

"For here we do not have a lasting city, but we are seeking the city which is to come." ( Hebrews 13:14 )

May the Lord bless you richly!

YAQUBOS†

Do you have any idea what the word heaven or heavens means? It is the word you know as SKY. In Spanish... Cielo, in French...Ciel, in Latin...aura, German...Himmel. I can go on if you like.
Heaven is Sky... Sky is Heaven. Stars... are they in the sky or in the heavens?

Where exactly is this city of New Jerusalem supposed to come from?

Your literalness is becoming inanity.

 

[YAQUBOS]

Do you have any idea what the word heaven or heavens means? It is the word you know as SKY. In Spanish... Cielo, in French...Ciel, in Latin...aura, German...Himmel. I can go on if you like.
Heaven is Sky... Sky is Heaven. Stars... are they in the sky or in the heavens?

Stars are in space.

The sky is where planes fly. The sky is where you have also clouds. And in many cases, sky is used for space.

And we thank God that in English we have two distinct words, unlike many other languages.

Now, without any human philosophy, I am not saying that a city will come down from the sky or from space.

I am talking about the third Heaven:

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven." ( 2 Corinthians 12:2 )

Where exactly is this city of New Jerusalem supposed to come from?

From Heaven, from God:

"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband." ( Revelation 21:2 )

Your literalness is becoming inanity.

You need to understand that God knows what He is saying.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Stars are in space.

The sky is where planes fly. The sky is where you have also clouds. And in many cases, sky is used for space.

And we thank God that in English we have two distinct words, unlike many other languages.

Now, without any human philosophy, I am not saying that a city will come down from the sky or from space.

I am talking about the third Heaven:

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago--whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows--such a man was caught up to the third heaven." ( 2 Corinthians 12:2 )



From Heaven, from God:

You need to understand that God knows what He is saying.

YAQUBOS†

Sky, space and heaven...

Paul isn't talking about going anywhere... it is a spiritual metaphor!!!!
Whether in the body or not... I have no idea how he can mean anything other than something spiritual happening internally.

I need to understand??????????

 

[YAQUBOS]

Sky, space and heaven...

Paul isn't talking about going anywhere... it is a spiritual metaphor!!!!
Whether in the body or not... I have no idea how he can mean anything other than something spiritual happening internally.

I need to understand??????????

Yes, that was something spiritual. And as spiritual things are real, so where is your problem?

And, by the way, even if he was in a spiritual body, that would not change anything in what happened to him. Paul had a vision of the third Heaven. And let him continue to tell us the rest:

"And I know how such a man--whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, God knows--
was caught up into Paradise and heard inexpressible words, which a man is not permitted to speak." ( 2 Corinthians 12:3-4 )

There, "just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM."" ( 1 Corinthians 2:9 )

God didn't prepare those things for His children in the inner experience of Paul. They are in Paradise, the third Heaven.

In the same way, for the unrepentant sinners, "the black darkness has been reserved forever." ( Jude 13 ) "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." ( Matthew 25:46 ) "for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." ( Revelation 21:8 )

Please, don't go there with stubbornness.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

And what in Paul's writing makes you think that when you are dead... dust... just a memory... that anything of torment, agony or dread will be comprehendable or of any awareness to anyone?

When you are dead, you are dead. Dead, dead, dead. No brain, no feelings, no thoughts, no nothing. Dead.

Or do you think that awareness exists somewhere outside the brain?

 

[YAQUBOS]

And what in Paul's writing makes you think that when you are dead... dust... just a memory... that anything of torment, agony or dread will be comprehendable or of any awareness to anyone?

"then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." ( Ecclesiastes 12:7 )

And the Apostle Paul said it clearly:

"we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." ( 2 Corinthians 5:8 )

When you are dead, you are dead.

"Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"" ( John 11:25-26 )

Dead, dead, dead.

"will live even if he dies" ...

No brain, no feelings, no thoughts, no nothing. Dead.

Yes, no physical brain, no physical feelings, no physical thoughts, no physical nothing. Physically dead.

But who is talking about that???

By the way, did you forget also the resurrection of the body?

Or do you think that awareness exists somewhere outside the brain?

Yes, the angels have awareness, although they don't have a brain like you do. They are even more aware than you:

"For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time." ( Revelation 12:12 )

"You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder." ( James 2:19 )

So they are aware, without having a physical brain.

Have a nice time!

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;44068023

"we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." ( 2 Corinthians 5:8 )



"Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"" ( John 11:25-26 )




"will live even if he dies" ...



Yes, no physical brain, no physical feelings, no physical thoughts, no physical nothing. Physically dead.

But who is talking about that???

By the way, did you forget also the resurrection of the body?

I suppose you don't notice the irreconcilable contradictions in these responses, do you?

1) Out of the body and with the Lord
2) living dead, dying alive
3) no physical brain, nothing physical...physically dead
4) and resurrection of the body

Neither Paul nor Jesus is consistent in their discussions of the Kingdom of God, heaven, afterlife or anything else that you have neatly bundled together and interpreted to mean YOU will have eternal life in another body (or not) and awareness, that is our sense of self exists somewhere outside of our brain neurology.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

I suppose you don't notice the irreconcilable contradictions in these responses, do you?

Hah! That's about as likely as a rain of fish in Santa Fe tomorrow at 3:27pm.

Anyway, KCDAD and SS, if you're still around, questions for you in a new thread in the "unorthodox theology" forum. I'm sure you can find it...

 

[YAQUBOS]

I suppose you don't notice the irreconcilable contradictions in these responses, do you?

1) Out of the body and with the Lord

Where is the problem? It's a problem for you, as long as you don't believe in the existence of spirit.

2) living dead, dying alive

Where did you read this?

3) no physical brain, nothing physical...physically dead

Yes. So?

4) and resurrection of the body

Do you have anything against this?

Neither Paul nor Jesus is consistent in their discussions of the Kingdom of God, heaven, afterlife or anything else

Oh, really? So you are more consistent that the Lord Himself?? ...

And you still say you are a CHRISTian...

that you have neatly bundled together and interpreted to mean YOU will have eternal life in another body (or not) and awareness, that is our sense of self exists somewhere outside of our brain neurology.

I believe that I have a spirit, because God says that.

I believe in the resurrection of the body, because God says that.

And you are in a dilemma, because you do not believe.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Where is the problem? It's a problem for you, as long as you don't believe in the existence of spirit.



Where did you read this?



Yes. So?



Do you have anything against this?



Oh, really? So you are more consistent that the Lord Himself?? ...

And you still say you are a CHRISTian...



I believe that I have a spirit, because God says that.

I believe in the resurrection of the body, because God says that.

And you are in a dilemma, because you do not believe.

YAQUBOS†

I am more consistent than the Bible or you.

You are exactly as inconsistent as anyone could be trying to rationalize or justify the contradictions in the Bible.

Please stop write "God says" or "God said"... no one believes you. God is not talking to you. He definitely is not talking to you through the Bible. Write instead: the Bible says HERE or HERE ....

 

[YAQUBOS]

I am more consistent than the Bible or you.

Very humble...

You are exactly as inconsistent as anyone could be trying to rationalize or justify the contradictions in the Bible.

It's one thing to say it, but it's another thing to prove it. Well, just show us ONE contradiction in the Bible.

Please stop write "God says" or "God said"... no one believes you.

I know someone who visits this thread and who believes me. Do you have anything against him/her?

God is not talking to you.

He is not only talking to me, but he is also talking to you. Open the Bible and read what He has to tell you.

He definitely is not talking to you through the Bible.

What is written in the Bible is exactly His Word.

Write instead: the Bible says HERE or HERE ....

Yes, and what the Bible says God says.

We have seen this in detail.

You are not being able to answer the strong biblical evidence, so you prefer to cancel the Bible.

But no one can stop God from speaking! Humans will give an account before Him for not listening to what He says.

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Very humble...

It's one thing to say it, but it's another thing to prove it. Well, just show us ONE contradiction in the Bible.

In Genesis 1 it says animals were created first and then man... in Genesis 2 it says man was created and then the animals were created afterwards to keep man company.

There is your one contradiction.

 

[YAQUBOS]

In Genesis 1 it says animals were created first and then man... in Genesis 2 it says man was created and then the animals were created afterwards to keep man company.

There is your one contradiction.

Genesis 2 doesn't say that.

So I still wait to see any contradiction.

You see how it's one thing to say it and a wholly other thing to prove it?

YAQUBOS†

 

[KCDAD]

Genesis 2 doesn't say that.

So I still wait to see any contradiction.

You see how it's one thing to say it and a wholly other thing to prove it?

YAQUBOS†

15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.




Notice the order of the verses... man and then animals... man and then animals MAN AND THEN ANIMALS!!!!!!!



Now, do you want to deny what Genesis 1 says also?

 

[YAQUBOS]

15And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
16And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
18And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
20And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.




Notice the order of the verses... man and then animals... man and then animals MAN AND THEN ANIMALS!!!!!!!

I don't see man and then the animals. Can you show me please?

By the way: Do you know what the word "context" means?

Now, do you want to deny what Genesis 1 says also?

I accept both what Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 say, because I believe what the Word of God says.

But you think you are more consistent than the Word of God...

YAQUBOS†

 

[Soul Searcher]

I don't see man and then the animals. Can you show me please?

Amazing how you do not see what is right in front of you but do see what is not there. Read the passage carefully verse 15 says God placed man in the garden. Verse 18 says man should not be alone. Then verse 19 says that God created the animals. Now just in case you can not understand this 15 comes before 19 and 19 comes after 15. It is crystal clear.

By the way: Do you know what the word "context" means?

I think you should ask yourself that question? The context is clear and it does say that man was created and placed in the garden then animals were created.

I accept both what Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 say,

So you accept that both man and woman were created after all the animals and that man was created before the animals and woman afterwards? I suppose you do not see a problem with this but to most of us it is pretty clear.

and because I believe what the Word of God says.

Do you really? It seems from your posts that you actually believe many things that the bible does not say while not believing many things that it does say. You seem to superimpose your own thoughs of perfect on the book and reinterpret the passages based on your own context which is unsupported by the text.

But you think you are more consistent than the Word of God...

So you are a mind reader as well now? It has nothing to do with anyone being more or less consistant that a book. What I see is that KC is more honest about it than you have been. He doesn't bury his head in the sand when faced with a contradiction and does not invent verses that do not exist.

 

[KCDAD]

YAQUBOS;44306820I don't see man and then the animals. Can you show me please?

19And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam
God created the animals AFTER noting that man needed a help meet. He then brings the animals to man who is already created. And man names them.

By the way: Do you know what the word "context" means?

Yes, would you like me to explain it to you since apparently you don't?

I accept both what Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 say, because I believe what the Word of God says.

They are two different stories by two different authors trying to
convey two different messages.

But you think you are more consistent than the Word of God...

That is at least the third time you have posted this comment. At least you are consistent about that.
For the the third time, I am more consistent than you or the Bible.