I don't care if you think abortion is wrong.

[LonesomeTexan]

If you want to reduce abortions, I think you're on the right track with the idea of fighting with compassion rather than condemnation.

And I agree it's no job for the government. Nothing you want done right is.

But it's not just after fertilization that a girl needs the support of her faith community and her family -- it's long, long before. She needs access to reliable information about sex and birth control -- because not everyone believes consensual sex is a sin, and even believing that it is won't always stop them. She needs someone to turn to and a place to run if she's being molested, or pressured into sex, or abused by her partner. Girls need a sense of self-worth to have the strength to say "no" when they're not ready for sex, but they also need a healthy enough attitude toward sex that when it does happen, they have the confidence to insist on protection rather than going about it guilty and frightened.

The best way to stop abortions is to prevent unwanted pregnancies to begin with. There's no arguing with that. But it will take a sea-change in our behavior to do it.

(And sometimes, like me, you can do everything right and still end up pregnant. That's when a compassionate and nonjudgmental place to turn would have helped. It might not have changed my mind, but my decision would not have been based on fear and desperation.)

Not trying to be divisive or anything, but the Bible clearly states that it is in fact a sin to have sexual relations outside of marriage. To me, it's pretty black and white. I also believe there are enough secularists spreading their message on how to have safe sex that you'd have to be living under a rock to not know how condoms and other forms of BC work.

However, there will always be people that won't be able to resist the temptation to have sex out of wedlock. We need to show the compassion that Christ showed for us on the cross. These people for the most part, know that they screwed up and we don't need to condemn them anymore than their conscience already has. We need to offer our love and support and recognize the fact that we are all sinners and we all fall short of God's law. Compassion/grace/mercy/love is what saves us from our sin. Jesus came to show us just how much we needed him and set the example of how we should treat others.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Why is it that a fetus can be "murdered" by a husband, boyfriend or stranger, but can be legally aborted by the mother?

Lisa

Because giving prosecutors that tool gave the antiabortion extremists a Pandora's Box just like they wanted.

 

[Texas Lynn]

explain to me why you consider it wrong to kill something that doesn't care?

The point is, the antiabortion extremists do care and they want to harm women. The "fetus is a person" argument is merely a smokescreen for their dupes.

 

[Texas Lynn]

wow, how compassionate you pro-choicers are..

We are a heck of a lot more "compassionate" than the other side because we wouldn't be doing what we do if it were not for the benefit of women against those who seek to reduce them to real estate and have the government claim emminent domain over part of their body.

 

[Avatar]

The point is, the antiabortion extremists do care and they want to harm women. The "fetus is a person" argument is merely a smokescreen for their dupes.

Are you saying I want to harm women because I'm pro-life? Really?

 

[Texas Lynn]

mark my words. someday I will start a private charity group strictly for women who wouldn't be able to financially support themselves through their pregnancy. I'd take donations from all sorts of people and try to coordinate pro life doctors to deliver children free or at a reduced cost to the mother. this isn't a job for uncle sam. this is something that falls on the shoulders of true followers of Christ. If Christians and churches around the country truly united, we'd never have to see a woman go through an abortion again because she couldn't support herself through the pregnancy.

I applaud part of your vision though it does appear hopelessly naive. I have in the past tried to get help for girls with pregnancies which were not going to result in them raising a child and who did not believe in abortion, and I found pro-life groups to be of little help.

If you would advocate correcting that rather than trying to impose your view on others by coercive legislation I would not oppose you.

 

[suzybeezy]

Any time you have sex there's the potential it could result in a pregnancy. Unless you are willing to accept that risk, you shouldn't be sexually active. This is not for those situations of rape or when it endangers the mothers life, but those who engage in casual sex then turn around and have an abortion. I think more often then not, abortion is being used by some as a method of birth control, particularly by young women. In my opinion, if you're not adult enough to deal with the consequences of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it.

 

[LonesomeTexan]

Any time you have sex there's the potential it could result in a pregnancy. Unless you are willing to accept that risk, you shouldn't be sexually active. This is not for those situations of rape or when it endangers the mothers life, but those who engage in casual sex then turn around and have an abortion. I think more often then not, abortion is being used by some as a method of birth control, particularly by young women. In my opinion, if you're not adult enough to deal with the consequences of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it.

hit the nail right on the head. the natural result of sex is conception. people that don't want to be responsible for what naturally happens as a result of sexual intercourse shouldn't be having sex. please take some responsibility for yourselves folks. not only is it morally wrong to kill the unborn, it probably doesn't make God too happy when he sees his people not being responsible for their actions.

 

[Avatar]

Any time you have sex there's the potential it could result in a pregnancy. Unless you are willing to accept that risk, you shouldn't be sexually active. This is not for those situations of rape or when it endangers the mothers life, but those who engage in casual sex then turn around and have an abortion. I think more often then not, abortion is being used by some as a method of birth control, particularly by young women. In my opinion, if you're not adult enough to deal with the consequences of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it.

hit the nail right on the head. the natural result of sex is conception. people that don't want to be responsible for what naturally happens as a result of sexual intercourse shouldn't be having sex. please take some responsibility for yourselves folks. not only is it morally wrong to kill the unborn, it probably doesn't make God too happy when he sees his people not being responsible for their actions.

Yes.

This doesn't get said nearly enough.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Any time you have sex there's the potential it could result in a pregnancy. Unless you are willing to accept that risk, you shouldn't be sexually active.

But accepting the risk of pregnancy doesn't mean that you have to keep that pregnancy. Plenty of women accept that every act of heterosexual sex has a chance to result in pregnancy (even with contraceptives), but many of them have planned ahead and know that they would abort in that case, or know that they would carry the pregnancy to term and keep the resulting child or give it up for adoption.

This is not for those situations of rape or when it endangers the mothers life, but those who engage in casual sex then turn around and have an abortion.

I don't think anyone "turns around" after having sex (casual, romantic, or otherwise) and just has an abortion. Abortion is a very difficult choice for most women to make, and takes a lot of thought and objectively looking at one's situation. Which is why people like myself feel that this decision should be left up to the woman and her partner, and not made by a government who doesn't understand all of each given situation.

I think more often then not, abortion is being used by some as a method of birth control, particularly by young women.

Well, technically abortion is birth control, since it ends pregnancy and so controls birth by preventing birth.

However, I do agree that it shouldn't be the only form of birth control used. I feel that better sex education would help people having sex to know how and why to use contraceptives.

In my opinion, if you're not adult enough to deal with the consequences of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it.

How is abortion not "dealing with the consequences"? It solves of the problem of an unintentional pregnancy. Just because it isn't dealing with the problem in the way that you believe women should, doesn't make it not dealing with the problem at all.

There are women who don't deal with the problem of an unintentional pregnancy, who hide the pregnancy from their family and friends. But ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away.

Only two actions can deal with an unintentional pregnancy, choosing to keep the pregnancy (and hopefully getting the care needed to make it a healthy one) or terminating the pregnancy. Both result in one no longer being pregnant, and take a lot of careful consideration to make. Both can be seen as mistakes by the people who make them years later, and neither can be taken back.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Any time you have sex there's the potential it could result in a pregnancy. Unless you are willing to accept that risk, you shouldn't be sexually active. This is not for those situations of rape or when it endangers the mothers life, but those who engage in casual sex then turn around and have an abortion. I think more often then not, abortion is being used by some as a method of birth control, particularly by young women.

In some cases there's a grain of truth to that but by and large it's urban legand ala Dutch Reagan's ficticious "welfare queen".

The criticism would have a lot more validity if antiabortion groups would offer birth control services or even just refer people for them, but they don't. By and large all clinics offering pregnancy terminations not only precribe birth control they have a jar of free condoms in the foyer. Try finding something like that in one of those fake anti-abortion "clinics".

In my opinion, if you're not adult enough to deal with the consequences of what you're doing, you shouldn't be doing it.

True but it's invalid to assume having abortion is not "dealing with the consequences".

 

[Parmenio]

<staff edit>

Further, this cracks me up.

it probably doesn't make God too happy when he sees his people not being responsible for their actions.

How is making a decision not being responsible for their actions? Is the only way by having a child that you don't want? My wife happens to teach a class that is almost exclusively dedicated to children that were not wanted by their parents. It's called PPCD-PBI. It is for 4-6 year olds with violent behavior issues. If you would like to put her out of a job by adopting these poor children, I would ask that you do so. In fact, I'm quite certain that she would be happy to be out of a job.

To wrap this up: If you would really like to end abortion, I recommend that you set something up that actually gives unhappy expectant moms a "for reals" option other than raising the child themselves.

 

[Avatar]

My wife happens to teach a class that is almost exclusively dedicated to children that were not wanted by their parents. It's called PPCD-PBI. It is for 4-6 year olds with violent behavior issues.

And are those children better off dead?

To wrap this up: If you would really like to end abortion, I recommend that you set something up that actually gives unhappy expectant moms a "for reals" option other than raising the child themselves.

Yeah, raising your own child is just so 'out there'. And the 'for real' option is called adoption. I believe its existed for a while.

 

[levi501]

I'm very much pro-choice but I never found the personhood approach to be very convincing or even material to the argument.

Only the mother may authorize the killing of this human organism because it's her right to bodily integrity that is being infringed upon. It's all about competing rights and in my opinion the mother's rights supercedes that of the fetus. For all you anti-choicers, if you're prepared to force a person to share their biological resources at the detriment to their own body where do you draw the line and why? If you want to remain consistent it better not stop at mothers and fetuses. All humans should be forced to donate blood, tissue and organs(when they can be spared), because it saves lives, right?

 

[Parmenio]

And the 'for real' option is called adoption. I believe its existed for a while.

The reason I don't believe it is an actual option right now is that the children are often just shunted into foster homes. No real adoption, just a temporary fix for a permanent problem. If you want it to become a real option, I suggest people start adopting a bit more.

 

[Avatar]

The reason I don't believe it is an actual option right now is that the children are often just shunted into foster homes. No real adoption, just a temporary fix for a permanent problem. If you want it to become a real option, I suggest people start adopting a bit more.

There is a waiting list to adopt infants. Foster homes almost universally take in older children separated fron their families by social services.

 

[Calliso]

There is a waiting list to adopt infants. Foster homes almost universally take in older children separated fron their families by social services.

I am pretty sure there is a waiting list to adopt healthy white babies..but if they are nonwhite or Godforbid disabled it doesn;t seem that people are exactly leaping to adopt those babies.

 

[suzybeezy]

The reason I don't believe it is an actual option right now is that the children are often just shunted into foster homes. No real adoption, just a temporary fix for a permanent problem. If you want it to become a real option, I suggest people start adopting a bit more.

I am pretty sure there is a waiting list to adopt healthy white babies..but if they are nonwhite or Godforbid disabled it doesn;t seem that people are exactly leaping to adopt those babies.

As the mother of two children adopted through the foster care system, who yes btw were both special needs, I'd have to disagree. See avatar picture to see just how "perfect" they are.

I don't think anyone "turns around" after having sex (casual, romantic, or otherwise) and just has an abortion.

Well we run in different circles then, cause I've known woman who have done just that.

The criticism would have a lot more validity if antiabortion groups would offer birth control services or even just refer people for them, but they don't. By and large all clinics offering pregnancy terminations not only precribe birth control they have a jar of free condoms in the foyer. Try finding something like that in one of those fake anti-abortion "clinics".

However, I do agree that it shouldn't be the only form of birth control used. I feel that better sex education would help people having sex to know how and why to use contraceptives.

I agree, offering free birthcontrol (whether its the pill, patch or condom) along with education, would go along way to reducing the need for abortions.

 

[joyinhislife]

As a former fetus, I do have an opinion about abortion *smile*. I also agree with the statements made about adoption. I am also adopted, and I thank God every day that my birth mother chose to carry me to term. There are so many millions of blessings the Lord gives us, every day. Frankly, I do not understand the opinions of the pro-choicers. I am not anti-choice.........my choice remains with the lives of the mothers and their babies. What kind of country do we have if we kill our children????? That kind of horrifies me.
God created us to be life-giving, not dealing death. I am sorry, but for me, that is the bottom line. Jesus Christ Himself would not condone abortion.

 

[WatersMoon110]

As a former fetus, I do have an opinion about abortion *smile*.

Since we're all "former unborn humans" I would think that it really isn't needed to bring this up. *grin*

I also agree with the statements made about adoption. I am also adopted, and I thank God every day that my birth mother chose to carry me to term.

I am glad that you found a loving home to adopt you. I know many wonderful people who have been adopted, and hope to adopt myself someday. It's always wonderful to hear good stories about people who have been adopted, since the news basically only shows people the horror stories!

There are so many millions of blessings the Lord gives us, every day.

But we all have our trials, too.

Frankly, I do not understand the opinions of the pro-choicers.

And many Pro-Choicers don't really understand the opinions of Pro-Lifers. Personally, I think it's because we each look at a different human in the equation first - Pro-Choicers think about what the pregnant woman must be going through, then consider the unborn human - Pro-Lifers think about the unborn human, then think about the pregnant woman.

There's really a lot involved in the issue of abortion. But, I feel, it comes down to the Right to Bodily Integrity and the Right to Life. Each side feels that one of these rights trumps the other, and we can't come to an agreement on which should "win". And either right "winning" could have major consequences in all aspects of society.

I am not anti-choice.........

Sort of an aside (like anything I've said hasn't been *wink*), but I really find the term "anti-choice" offensive. I feel that you might also, though I know that some people who are Pro-Life don't find it that way. I think that it's important for both sides to try to treat the other with respect, which is why I use the "positive" of "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-Life". I think that calling either side by a term that isn't the preferred one is just a put down, personally.

my choice remains with the lives of the mothers and their babies. What kind of country do we have if we kill our children????? That kind of horrifies me.

Personally, I feel you're oversimplifying the matter. Far more women in this country choose to keep their pregnancies than to abort, so plenty of children are still being born.

It sort of horrifies me to think that some people would take away the right of pregnant women to control their own bodies, by having the government force them to remain pregnant. I know how horrible it is to have someone force me to give up control of my own body (so, of course, I'm pretty biased on the matter), and it isn't something that I would wish on anyone. To me, that is the bottom line - I feel it is unethical for the government (or anyone else) to take away the right to control one's own body from anyone, even with the best of intentions.

God created us to be life-giving, not dealing death. I am sorry, but for me, that is the bottom line. Jesus Christ Himself would not condone abortion.

And yet the Bible does not once condemn abortion (it even says that God used it - against unborn "first-born" sons of Egypt). So we don't really know exactly how Jesus would have felt about abortion (since it seems that different Christians do feel different ways about the matter - and we can assume that most of them have discussed the matter with God).