Creationists - Why did god make the universe to big?

[AV1611VET]

It is a shame the bible could not tell us something only a god could know about the universe. Since maybe then, we might have some evidence that the bible was written by a god.

Would that really make a difference, Lee?

I don't think it would, and I can give an excellent example.

Two questions for you:

1. How would the Bible be revered if Genesis 1:1 read:

• In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the nine planets in our solar system.

2. How would the Bible be revered if Genesis 1:1 read:

• In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the eight planets in our solar system.

Either way, "scientists" would do what they do best --- make God out to be a liar.

Even your first sentence shows a bias that has been taught you, as God has indeed mentioned an expanding universe; but since "science" worships nature; Hubble gets the credit.

 

[LeeC]

Would that really make a difference, Lee?

I don't think it would, and I can give an excellent example.

Two questions for you:

1. How would the Bible be revered if Genesis 1:1 read:

• In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the nine planets in our solar system.

2. How would the Bible be revered if Genesis 1:1 read:

• In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the eight planets in our solar system.

Either way, "scientists" would do what they do best --- make God out to be a liar.

Even your first sentence shows a bias that has been taught you, as God has indeed mentioned an expanding universe; but since "science" worships nature; Hubble gets the credit.

And you were not taught about God and the Bible?

How about this:
How would the Bible be revered if Genesis 1:1 read:

In the beginning, God created the Heaven and the planets in our solar system, the Earth being the 3rd from the sun, followed by another planet with two small moons (Mars), followed by many small mini-planets, followed by a HUGE planet (Jupiter), then another one with rings around it (Saturn).

Science could not debate much with that?

So I think you have missed my point. God could have written something "unknown" to man, which could not be debated.


Lee

 

[AV1611VET]

So I think you have missed my point. God could have written something "unknown" to man, which could not be debated.

Like the universe expanding?

Like submarine currents?

Like electronic communication?

Like atoms?

Since science changes with the weather, no matter what the Bible would say scientifically, it would be denied by some generation, as I have demonstrated to you in my last post.

Would Amos 5:8 satisfy your demand?

• [bible]Amos 5:8[/bible]

Of course not --- everyone knows you can only see six stars in the Pleaides with the unaided eye, and a telescope shows hundreds.

There is nothing the Bible could say scientifically that wouldn't be denied today; as even scientists deny today what scientists wrote yesterday.

If the Bible would mention string theory --- you'd say it's never been proven.

If the Bible would say Alexander Graham Bell will be given credit for inventing the telephone, you'd say it was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

No --- I contend that "scientists" deny the Bible --- on principle.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Since science changes with the weather, no matter what the Bible would say scientifically, it would be denied by some generation, as I have demonstrated to you in my last post.

I know you won't follow this, but I thought I'd put it out there. Imagine if I write 875 pages of highly intricate prose wholly fraught with symbolism and aphorisms about spirituality and couched in ancient, nearly unknown societal milleiu and then convinced 1 million people it was the most holy thing ever written such that over the next 2500 years a group obsessively pored over every single line and analyzed and over-analyzed the phrases I used.

Of course not one of them ever used that information gleaned from their readings to make a breakthrough advance in science, but they are amazingly gifted at finding the hidden information in their various readings after the fact.

Now, tell me exactly how useful that book is for science.

If you are so sure that the Bible tells us all we need to know for science and you are the most fully conversant person on this board in matters of the bible:

PROVE IT. Make a scientific breakthrough based on your extensive readings of the bible.

Sure that's all you need, right? You keep hammering this point home. Impress us!

Don't just bluster and blow. Do something impresive!

 

[thaumaturgy]

Just look at the amazing advances in oil discoveries predicated on the Bible:

http://www.zionoil.com/

They were busy offering an I.P.O. which ended in May. Maybe someday they'll find oil!

But if the Bible is such a good geology text, I have to wonder why they even bother with geophysics and exploration? Why not just drill where God tells 'em?

Hmmm.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

If humans are Gods principal creation, why did he create a universe that is bigger than we can even imagine? Why create stars and planets we can't ever hope to see?

God did not make the universe big, he made us small.

So the question should be?

God why did you make humans so small and insignificant.

 

[AV1611VET]

Now, tell me exactly how useful that book is for science.

Thaumaturgy, you still don't get it, do you?

The Bible has science in it --- but It is not a science Book, per se.

I'm sure you've been told that before.

It contains non-age-specific science --- written in the simplest of terms.

It does not contain blueprints for making scientific breakthroughs.

[bible]Psalm 104:1-2[/bible]

1st generation: Yup --- the Heavens are stretched like a curtain.

Generations later: Yup --- the universe is stretched out like a curtain.

Generations later: Yup --- the universe is stretched like a rubber band.

Generations later: Yup --- the universe is expanded like a rubber band.

Generations later: Hubble Telescope confirms scientists' theory that the universe is actually expanding!

Later: The Bible contains no science.

Give me a break. As science advances, the science in the Bible becomes clearer and clearer.

"Scientists" contend just the opposite.

Paul says it best:

[bible]1 Corinthians 13:12[/bible]

 

[AV1611VET]

But if the Bible is such a good geology text, I have to wonder why they even bother with geophysics and exploration? Why not just drill where God tells 'em?

Let's see you write a non-fiction novel containing no science.

 

[thaumaturgy]

Let's see you write a non-fiction novel containing no science.

OK, so now we know. You think the Bible contains science but you are unable to use that science to do anything moving forward.

Got it.

So why should I care what the bible says in regards to science? I can obviously learn nothing from it unless I am looking at it after the fact.

You had a simple task: use the science in the bible to make a breakthrough advance in science and you don't even bother trying or saying you'll "think about how that might be done". Your actions (or rather lack thereof) speak more loudly than any exegesis you ever posted.

 

[AV1611VET]

OK, so now we know. You think the Bible contains science but you are unable to use that science to do anything moving forward.

BINGO! Now you got it!

(To be honest though, I thought you knew that already. Your post surprised me.)

Got it.

It's about time.

So why should I care what the bible says in regards to science?

I don't know --- why should you? If you're more interested in the age of rocks than you are the Rock of Ages, I suppose it wouldn't matter.

I can obviously learn nothing from it unless I am looking at it after the fact.

Well, ain't that a shame?

You had a simple task: use the science in the bible to make a breakthrough advance in science and you don't even bother trying or saying you'll "think about how that might be done".

At first I thought it was a joke, but then I realized you weren't kidding.

Your actions (or rather lack thereof) speak more loudly than any exegesis you ever posted.

I'd say my actions fit my exegeses, or, as was pointed out to me, my apologetics.

 

[thaumaturgy]

BINGO! Now you got it!

(To be honest though, I thought you knew that already. Your post surprised me.)

Wow. I thought maybe you were paying attention.

If you can't prove the Bible's science is actually there until AFTER THE FACT and even then it requires various exegetical and symbolic readings, then I don't think you are up to the discussion.

What that really makes it look like is you are just spouting your wishes for the Bible to be a scientifically robust and valid text without being able to prove it.

That's fine. It's your faith. Not a scientifically or logically verifiable stance.

I don't know --- why should you? If you're more interested in the age of rocks than you are the Rock of Ages, I suppose it wouldn't matter.

Excellent. Very original too!

Too clever by far!

(Just as an aside totally unrelated, when I hear stuff like that I am always reminded of my favorite "Thumper" song:

"Oh it won't be ol' Buddha, sittin' on that throne
And it won't be hare Krishna,
Callin' us home!
And it won't be ol' Mohammed,
Playin' that Trumpet Tune,
Cuz were goin' to see the SON,
Not rev'rend Moon!"
(Oh Buddha by The Imperials)

At first I thought it was a joke, but then I realized you weren't kidding.

Yes, when you make a claim and someone asks you to back it up substantially, they are usually joking, AV.

You just keep that attitude and you'll never be taken seriously.

Ask you minister if you are having trouble following the debate. Maybe he'll be able to explain it to you.

I'd say my actions fit my exegeses, or, as was pointed out to me, my apologetics.

I'm sure God is proud of that. You represent your beliefs quite well.

And I don't necessarily think you should take that as a compliment.

 

[AV1611VET]

Excellent. Very original too!

Thank you, but I can't take the credit for that.

Kirk Douglas said it to (I believe) Jason Robards in Inherit the Wind.

 

[Loudmouth]

Just look at the amazing advances in oil discoveries predicated on the Bible:

http://www.zionoil.com/

They were busy offering an I.P.O. which ended in May. Maybe someday they'll find oil!

But if the Bible is such a good geology text, I have to wonder why they even bother with geophysics and exploration? Why not just drill where God tells 'em?

Hmmm.

Zion Oil is still using standard geologic methods for finding oil. Scripture inspired the owner to search for oil in Israel.

If you truly want to read about bible-thumping YEC's looking for oil google for "Hayseed Stevens".

 

[AV1611VET]

If you truly want to read about bible-thumping YEC's looking for oil google for "Hayseed Stevens".

God put oil in the earth for a reason; but we won't go there, will we?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Thank you, but I can't take the credit for that.

Kirk Douglas said it to (I believe) Jason Robards in Inherit the Wind.

That was a good trick since neither of them was in the Cast of Inherit the Wind.

 

[Loudmouth]

God put oil in the earth for a reason; but we won't go there, will we?

God put oil on the earth so that everyone could have a plastic Jesus, right?

 

[TheBear]

(Sorry. Couldn't resist. )

 

[AV1611VET]

That was a good trick since neither of them was in the Cast of Inherit the Wind.

q.v. the User Comments section. (I saw the show myself.)

 

[AV1611VET]

God put oil on the earth so that everyone could have a plastic Jesus, right?

Whatever that meant.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

q.v. the User Comments section. (I saw the show myself.)

OK, you are referring to the boob-tube version and not the original movie or play. I had forgotten that even existed. I saw the original movie with Spencer Tracy and Fredric March