Hell is a correctional jail

[james415]

You can't just find a few verses that say what happens after the Lake of Fire. Scripture goes deeper than that. You need to take into consideration God's nature, His attributes, and what He has shown you of Himself as revealed through the entire scriptures.

He reveals Himself as a God of love, mercy and compassion, sure, but He also shows Himself as a severe judge. He is balanced. His is a tough love, but He has also shown Himself to be a JUST judge.

In His balance of love and justice the scriptures show Him as redemptive and restorative. Whenever you look around the scriptures you will see that nature. When He tears down it is always to build up. It's shown time and time again in His dealings with Israel and with people individually. His nature is to RESTORE, and to make all things new.

He also says that judgment BEGINS in the house of God, and He's doing that now. How does He judge us? By putting us through the fire. What is the purpose of the fire? To purge of dross and anything unclean, to bring forth gold. His principles are the same, HE changes not. Rev 3:18 "I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see." His motive is always love, to bring out the best, to turn it into gold, to bring not only mankind but ALL of creation through the fire to renew and restore to perfection. He is a God of restoration. 2Pe 3:13 'But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.' If His desire is to restore all of creation, and we will readily agree with that, then why would He want to throw mankind away as some sort of trash?

We also need to remember that Jesus HAS ALREADY purchased/redeemed ALL of mankind, and the scriptures do not tell me anywhere that it is only in this lifetime we are given the gift of responding to Him.

There are many scriptures that show a severe judgment, and it's through the mindset taught us in the church which has been taught to the world, through Dante's Inferno, with preconceived ideas, and through the wickedness in our own hearts that we read these scriptures and show God to be a monster with a heart of hatred, who tells us to love our enemies but doesn't do it Himself.

Amen!
I don't think it could be said any better!

 

[LJSGM]

You left out tormented day and night, this right here indicates that it is perhaps on this earth, perhaps hades (the spirit realm, where the brimstone is?).The old testament spoke of abraham's bosum, as someone else said was most likely hades (the place of the dead) where they were protected by God. (why is it that when people drive out demons, that they smell sulfur?) Perhaps it is a waiting place for the judgement which will be at the end of this age.

Matthew 10

28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell

This here indicates to me that the soul does not die unless God destroys it. Death and hades will be destroyed in the gehenna (lake of fire).

I believe though that Jesus opened the gates of hades, when he went there during his death and before his resurrection, and that those in Christ no longer end up there. And all those in Abrahams bosum where let out. Where did they go? I don't know.

Also, in the verse that you mentioned, the word "forever and ever" is not the same word used for God's eternity, or the same word used for "eternal punishment" such as we see in matthew I believe it is. The word "forever and ever" could have been mistranslated and it may actually mean "an age" or this age.

perhaps this is why Satan and his angels still have dominion over this world, because they reside in the abode of the dead, or spiritual realm of the earth. This would explain demon posessions and such.

I know it sounds freaky, but I'm entertaining possibilities here.

 

[Ben12]

perhaps this is why Satan and his angels still have dominion over this world, because they reside in the abode of the dead, or spiritual realm of the earth. This would explain demon posessions and such.

I know it sounds freaky, but I'm entertaining possibilities here.

Lucifer; is he really the devil?




Now the religious system teaches that Ez 28:13 and Is 14:12 are speaking of Satan and the KJ Bible is the only version that uses the word Lucifer. It is not even a Hebrew word.


Moffat translation says "What a fall from heaven O Shining star of the dawns" Rotherham"How hast thou fallen from heaven, O shining One, son of the dawn!"Amplified "how are you fallen from heaven O light-bearer and day star, son of the morning!"

2 Pet 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts.


Rev 22:16 I JESUS have sent mine angel to testify unto you these thing sin the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

The word Lucifer in the Strong's Concordance says it is a title applied to the king of Babylon. The word itself means the morning star. In the natural it is speaking of a King and in the spiritual it is speaking of Adam. The word MAN means a mortal, an individual, a male person. I could rest my case on just that one verse alone, but why would Peter under the direction of the Holy Spirit compare Jesus as the Day star with Lucifer the Devil?
It is the erroneous translation of the KJ that infers such.
Lucifer was never an Arc Angel, he was a MAN. (Satan is a spirit.)

Is14:15 says he was brought down to hell, (sheol, place of the dead) the side of the pit. Satan is never thrown in the grave because he has no part in a natural death as he is a spiritual being. Only MAN dies and is placed in a grave. Evil spirits only go to a place called Tartarus and Satan the high ranking one is sent to the lake of fire.( which is not hell)

When Adam was placed in Eden he was perfect. When Adam fell he fell from a lofty realm. He was cast out of that realm. Adam because of the fall caused Kingdoms to shake and made the world as a wilderness. The fall brought us down into this realm of vanity. Adam was the1st Adam and Jesus is the last Adam.

Even the Jews knew the true name of Satan. They called him Beelzebub. Satan was created a tool

Isaiah 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his works; and I have created the waster to destroy. (See God created Satan)


Jesus in Jn 8:44 Said Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the BEGINNING and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar and the father of it. John writes in

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the BEGINNING. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil..


I cannot see that Satan had two beginnings. The word beginning in the Greek means beginning. Not first he was an angel, second he was a murder and liar. Which one was he? Do we take the RCC's translation or do we take the correct translation of the word Lucifer?

In the beginning Man was full of light and Satan was full of darkness. God is not working on a plan B. He has had a plan and a purpose from the beginning and Satan was a part of that plan. Simply a tool. Never an angel.

This is my stand and I feel that you have a choice to believe the word of God or to accept a false doctrine made up in the minds of religious men.

 

[LJSGM]

Revelation 12


7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

 

[Ben12]

Revelation 12


7And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

The word angel simple means messenger; the devil was a liar, murder from the beginning,

The word angel means messenger; the devil was a liar, murder from the beginning,

NT:32
aggelos (ang'-el-os); from aggello [probably derived from NT:71; compare NT:34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:
KJV - angel, messenger.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

 

[SoundCard]

In the Old Testament, how many things were people to be put to death for because of their sins? How many times were they to die for their transgressions of the law? I don't exactly know off hand, but I KNOW they're in there. Now, you're going to say that's contrary to God's character. Don't underestimate just how awesome our Lord is. Yes, he is loving, he is extremely just, moreso than anyone of us can comprehend. We see that under the Grace he gives us in the NT, but don't forget he's still the same God we have in OT as well! He is eternal, beyond all reckoning, infinitely great. Now, do you trully reject the idea of eternal condemnation, because you believe God is not capable of such a thing? Or do you reject it because you personally feel it isn't right? If it is the first, think carefully. God is a perfect being, loving, all power, yet he detests sin. There is a rift between those who sin, and God. Christ is the bridge, the final Lamb of God, the atonement for our sins.

Jon 14:5-7 NIV

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."



Christ is the *only* way to the Heavenly Father. He is the *only* way into Heaven. Hell is not a purging ground. Hell is an eternal sentence for transgressing the law of a perfect God.


Matthew 7:21-23 NIV




21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

If on the day of Judgment they cry out the Lord's name and he still turns them away, because they did not trully know him, they go away to a lake of fire. If they were not in Christ on that day, that rift is still there. That sin is still there. And because of this, they go away from the Lord because they simply *cannot* overcome their sins by any way other than atonement through Christ. A lake of fire will not purge them clean. They are condemned. They are done. Is it not sad? Yes, it is. Is it not tragic? Indeed. But they had their chance. They had the opportunity to know Christ. But once the day of their judgment comes, there is no further atonement. There is no cleansing by fire. There is only cleansing by Christ. There is only the way through Christ. If by then, if Christ's sacrifice is not enough to convince them of who he is, then what will? If a free opportunity through Grace to save them, isn't enough to turn their hearts, then what makes you think a lake of fire will do any better of a job? It says there will be gnashing of teeth, an act of hatred and anger. They gnash their teeth at a God they know exists at that point. If they hate God, they cannot at the same time love Christ. There is no other way.

 

[LJSGM]

The word angel simple means messenger; the devil was a liar, murder from the beginning,

The word angel means messenger; the devil was a liar, murder from the beginning,

NT:32
aggelos (ang'-el-os); from aggello [probably derived from NT:71; compare NT:34] (to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an "angel"; by implication, a pastor:
KJV - angel, messenger.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

I'm not sure what you're point is here?

 

[LJSGM]

For instance,

when the mailman comes to our house, we call him "the mailman", especially if we don't know him by name. The only reason God's angels appeared before men was to give them a message, so men gave them the name "messenger." That doesn't prove that they are not individuals with heavenly bodies. Micheal had a name. There were others with names. If I knew my mailman's name and talked to him, I'd probably call him by his first name as well. But since I don't, he's "the mailman"

 

[Tavita]

In the Old Testament, how many things were people to be put to death for because of their sins? How many times were they to die for their transgressions of the law? I don't exactly know off hand, but I KNOW they're in there. Now, you're going to say that's contrary to God's character. Don't underestimate just how awesome our Lord is. Yes, he is loving, he is extremely just, moreso than anyone of us can comprehend. We see that under the Grace he gives us in the NT, but don't forget he's still the same God we have in OT as well! He is eternal, beyond all reckoning, infinitely great. Now, do you trully reject the idea of eternal condemnation, because you believe God is not capable of such a thing? Or do you reject it because you personally feel it isn't right? If it is the first, think carefully. God is a perfect being, loving, all power, yet he detests sin. There is a rift between those who sin, and God. Christ is the bridge, the final Lamb of God, the atonement for our sins.

Jon 14:5-7 NIV

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."



Christ is the *only* way to the Heavenly Father. He is the *only* way into Heaven. Hell is not a purging ground. Hell is an eternal sentence for transgressing the law of a perfect God.


Matthew 7:21-23 NIV




21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

If on the day of Judgment they cry out the Lord's name and he still turns them away, because they did not trully know him, they go away to a lake of fire. If they were not in Christ on that day, that rift is still there. That sin is still there. And because of this, they go away from the Lord because they simply *cannot* overcome their sins by any way other than atonement through Christ. A lake of fire will not purge them clean. They are condemned. They are done. Is it not sad? Yes, it is. Is it not tragic? Indeed. But they had their chance. They had the opportunity to know Christ. But once the day of their judgment comes, there is no further atonement. There is no cleansing by fire. There is only cleansing by Christ. There is only the way through Christ. If by then, if Christ's sacrifice is not enough to convince them of who he is, then what will? If a free opportunity through Grace to save them, isn't enough to turn their hearts, then what makes you think a lake of fire will do any better of a job? It says there will be gnashing of teeth, an act of hatred and anger. They gnash their teeth at a God they know exists at that point. If they hate God, they cannot at the same time love Christ. There is no other way.

Yes, He put the body to death, but He doesn't kill the spirit, all spirits go back to Him. And yes, there is a verse that says not to be afraid of him who kills the body but be in awe of Him who is able to kill both body and soul... He is able, but does He?

Let me also point out, that under the New Testament Covenant He put people to death too. Remember Ananias and Sapphira? (there are probably MORE out there too)

Act 5:5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it.
Act 5:10 And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband.
Act 5:11 And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard of these things.

They were saved, washed in the blood of Jesus, redeemed, and yet because of their sin they died. But that doesn't mean they are lost eternally.

We just don't fear and live in Awe of how mighty He is, I agree.

Where does the word show that gnashing of teeth means to be totally annihilated or suffer with no end? It just means to be in torment. We suffer torment in this life, does it mean we will suffer without end?

Don't you believe God is powerful enough, sovereign enough to be able to change a man's mind, whether in this life or the age to come?

There is no cleansing by fire. There is only cleansing by Christ.

So now that you have been washed in the blood you have no need to go through fire to die to the flesh?

(Mar 9:49 NASB) "For everyone will be salted with fire.

(1Co 3:13 NASB) each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

(1Co 3:14 NASB) If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

(1Co 3:15 NASB) If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

(1Co 3:16 NASB) Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

(Mat 3:11 NASB) "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

(Heb 12:29 NASB) for our God is a consuming fire.

(1Pe 1:7 NASB) so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;


You need to do a study on fire in the scriptures, and it is ONLY by the fact that Christ has redeemed us that we can be salted and have every last bit of sin purged from our lives... it is the working of fire to show us and bring forth the sin in our lives so we can take them to Christ for cleansing in His blood. Same concept as the Lake of Fire... which is God Himself. It is ONLY because of Christ's sacrifice, that all have been redeemed.

 

[Ben12]

For instance,

when the mailman comes to our house, we call him "the mailman", especially if we don't know him by name. The only reason God's angels appeared before men was to give them a message, so men gave them the name "messenger." That doesn't prove that they are not individuals with heavenly bodies. Micheal had a name. There were others with names. If I knew my mailman's name and talked to him, I'd probably call him by his first name as well. But since I don't, he's "the mailman"

Amen, but just because they are messengers does not mean they are ALWAYS heavenly bodies.

 

[LJSGM]

And yes, there is a verse that says not to be afraid of him who kills the body but be in awe of Him who is able to kill both body and soul... He is able, but does He?

The bible makes it clear that he does, you're leaving out lots of scriptures if you don't see this.

Where does the word show that gnashing of teeth means to be totally annihilated or suffer with no end? It just means to be in torment. We suffer torment in this life, does it mean we will suffer without end?

47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where
" 'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.'[a]

What does the worm point to but the grave and death? and then to say that their worm never dies, perhaps means this death will be forever. There are LOTS of other verses, but you chose to ignore them.

Don't you believe God is powerful enough, sovereign enough to be able to change a man's mind, whether in this life or the age to come?

He will draw us, plant the seed, but he will not force us, because he knows that it will not result in righteousness, we have to make up our own minds. Have you read the parable of the sower? Look over that one again.

So now that you have been washed in the blood you have no need to go through fire to die to the flesh?

Qoute:
The root to salt (m-l-h) is used in the Hebrew Scriptures not only in contexts where it means “purification, reservation,” but also in contexts were it is a symbol of barrenness and destruction.
Alcalay’s The Complete Hebrew-English Dictionary translates the expression zara makom melah (literally, “to sow a place with salt”) as “to destroy completely.” Such an action is described in Judges 9:45, where Abimelech destroys Shechem. Part of the destruction was sowing salt in the city.
The case of Lot’s wife, who was destroyed when she disobeyed God’s command and was turned into a “pillar of salt,” is well known. It is probably as an allusion to this familiar incident that Isaiah 51:6 uses the root m-l-h in the sense of “destroy.”

(Mar 9:49 NASB) "For everyone will be salted with fire.

(1Co 3:13 NASB) each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.

(1Co 3:14 NASB) If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.

(1Co 3:15 NASB) If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

(1Co 3:16 NASB) Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

1 Corinthians 3
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

He is speaking to christians, those whose "foundation of Christ" has been laid.

(Mat 3:11 NASB) "As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Yes, the Holy Spirit was decribed as fire, perhaps because of it's power properties.

(Heb 12:29 NASB) for our God is a consuming fire.

Yes, this speaks of God's wrath.

(1Pe 1:7 NASB) so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

same as before

 

[7angel]

Psalms
Chapter 1171 1 Praise the LORD, all you nations! Give glory, all you peoples! 2 The LORD'S love for us is strong; the LORD is faithful forever. Hallelujah!

 

[Tavita]

The bible makes it clear that he does, you're leaving out lots of scriptures if you don't see this.

That He does what?.. kill the spirit? Show me where it says that.

47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where
" 'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.'[a]

What does the worm point to but the grave and death? and then to say that their worm never dies, perhaps means this death will be forever. There are LOTS of other verses, but you chose to ignore them.

That's a reference to the judgment against the Jews for sacrificing their sons and daughters to the god Moloch in the Valley of Hinnom.

If you read the whole context of Matthew 10, Jesus was speaking to His disciples and in effect said..
"When Jesus said, "fear not him who can kill the body, but him who kills both body and soul in Gehenna". He was saying, do not fear the fact you can die on this journey but beware of the apostate Jews who are going to betray you and murder you just like they did in the ancient days where brother betrayed brother to death and fathers sacrificed their children to false gods."

He will draw us, plant the seed, but he will not force us, because he knows that it will not result in righteousness, we have to make up our own minds. Have you read the parable of the sower? Look over that one again.

No, of course He won't force us, but He's pretty good at persuasion. Ever heard of the Hound of Heaven?

Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

The root to salt (m-l-h) is used in the Hebrew Scriptures not only in contexts where it means “purification, reservation,” but also in contexts were it is a symbol of barrenness and destruction.
Alcalay’s The Complete Hebrew-English Dictionary translates the expression zara makom melah (literally, “to sow a place with salt&#8221 as “to destroy completely.” Such an action is described in Judges 9:45, where Abimelech destroys Shechem. Part of the destruction was sowing salt in the city.
The case of Lot’s wife, who was destroyed when she disobeyed God’s command and was turned into a “pillar of salt,” is well known. It is probably as an allusion to this familiar incident that Isaiah 51:6 uses the root m-l-h in the sense of “destroy.”

How do you tie that in with this...

(Mar 9:49 NASB) "For everyone will be salted with fire.

Are we ALL to be destroyed?

Salt is also a preservative...

49 For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt.
50 Ideal is the salt, yet if the salt should be becoming savorless, with what will you be seasoning it? Have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another."

1 Corinthians 3
10By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds. 11For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work. 14If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward. 15If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.

He is speaking to christians, those whose "foundation of Christ" has been laid.

Hmmm.... so christians do go through the fire. Interesting.

Yes, the Holy Spirit was decribed as fire, perhaps because of it's power properties.

Yes, power and purging.

Yes, this speaks of God's wrath.

God's wrath is against His enemies. The world, the flesh and the devil. The Anti-Christ.. of which ALL of us have in one degree or another.

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

 

[LJSGM]

That He does what?.. kill the spirit? Show me where it says that.

No, in the verse pretaining to killing the body and SOUL in HELL. No one's speaking of the spirit.

Matthew 23


33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

Mark 16

16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.



John 5


28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

John 12


47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

Galatians 1

8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

being condemned physically almost always mean condemned to die.

Matthew 7
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.


Luke 6

49But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."




Galatians 6

8The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature[a]will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.


Philippians 3

19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.

5All this is evidence that God's judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering. 6God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you 7and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. 8He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power 10on the day he comes to be glorified in his holy people and to be marveled at among all those who have believed. This includes you, because you believed our testimony to you.


2 Peter 2

False Teachers and Their Destruction

1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves.

2 Peter 2

3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Sorry, there are more, but I think I'll stop here. I don't take pleasure in thinking about hell all the time. And yes, I think that ministry should be about telling people about the free gift of LIFE.

That's a reference to the judgment against the Jews for sacrificing their sons and daughters to the god Moloch in the Valley of Hinnom

Lets see...

47And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, 48where
" 'their worm does not die,
and the fire is not quenched.'[e] 49Everyone will be salted with fire.

he describes what this gehenna (hell) is, by saying this time, the fire is not quenched and the worm does not die and everyone going there will be destroyed completely.

WiKi:
The word is derived from the Greek, ultimately from Hebrew: גי(&#1488-הינום‎ Gêhinnôm (also Gai ben-Hinnom (Hebrew: גיא בן הינום&#8206 meaning the Valley of Hinnom's son.[1] The valley forms the southern border of ancient Jerusalem and stretches from the foot of Mt. Zion, eastward, to the Kidron Valley. It is first mentioned in Joshua 15:8.[1] as a deep, narrow ravine at the foot of the walls of Jerusalem where refuse was burned. It is here that the bodies of executed criminals or others deemed unworthy of a proper burial were dumped.

If you read the whole context of Matthew 10, Jesus was speaking to His disciples and in effect said..
"When Jesus said, "fear not him who can kill the body, but him who kills both body and soul in Gehenna". He was saying, do not fear the fact you can die on this journey but beware of the apostate Jews who are going to betray you and murder you just like they did in the ancient days where brother betrayed brother to death and fathers sacrificed their children to false gods."

No, he's saying that even though people can kill your body, they can not kill your soul. Only God can condemn you and kill your soul to be destroyed in hell. Here's the warning: 43If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. meaning, stop sinning or you face the fire of gehenna.

No, of course He won't force us, but He's pretty good at persuasion. Ever heard of the Hound of Heaven?

Rom 9:15 For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
Rom 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH."
Rom 9:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?"

No, of course it's not our will that saves us, if it wasn't for Christ's sacrafise and God's mercy, no matter how much we believe in God's son, or how much faith and will we had, we would not be saved and could not saved ourselves. That's it. It doesn't mean that God saves everyone. Mercy and forgiveness is given only if it's ask for.

If you went before a judge for commiting a crime, and you asked him for mercy and repented before him, and he granted mercy to you, does that make him a good judge still?

What if your rapist goes to trial before the same judge, he spits in his face, does not ask for mercy, and still the judge lets him go, is he still a good judge? Did he bring about justice?

Mercy is given only if asked for.

(Mar 9:49 NASB) "For everyone will be salted with fire.

Are we ALL to be destroyed?

As I said before, he is speaking of the people entering hell, everyone entering hell will be destroyed completely.

Salt is also a preservative...

and?

49 For everyone will be salted with fire, and every sacrifice will be salted with salt.
50 Ideal is the salt, yet if the salt should be becoming savorless, with what will you be seasoning it? Have salt in yourselves and be at peace with one another."

Can you give the chapter and verse here?

Hmmm.... so christians do go through the fire. Interesting.

no, it says their WORKS will be tested and judged

Yes, power and purging.

God uses different elements to describe things of the spirit, that doesn't mean they are stuck in that ONE description.

God's wrath is against His enemies. The world, the flesh and the devil.

and those that carry the mark of the beast you forgot.

The Anti-Christ.. of which ALL of us have in one degree or another.

unless you are born again.

Eph 6:11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
Eph 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
Eph 6:13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.

in regards to not waging war as the world does, using weapons that the world uses. How does this prove your point?

 

[Spiritofprophecy]

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

I commend all those who seek and wrestle with the spirit and words of God; Who seek Gods hidden and secret things.

Many truths of Gods words have a Dualism truth; a truth of flesh and also of spirit.

Purification of fire has an earthly relation ship which men relate, to purify Metals such as gold and silver; But also has a spiritual truth to purify mans spirit by trials and tribulations of earthly things: And God also purifies mankind with " Day of the Lord" a destruction from the almighty; making man rare as the Golden wedge of Ophir. With few men left; When God purifies the earth also with fire Hail and rain. Each man must discern for himself, what Gods words mean, with Help of the spirit.

It is written that when the flesh is weak, the spirit is strong. Lean not unto thine own understanding; But unto every word which comes from God.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless Christians in Forum and all who use it.
</IMG></IMG>

 

[Ben12]

Greetings in the name of Jesus:

I commend all those who seek and wrestle with the spirit and words of God; Who seek Gods hidden and secret things.

Many truths of Gods words have a Dualism truth; a truth of flesh and also of spirit.

Purification of fire has an earthly relation ship which men relate, to purify Metals such as gold and silver; But also has a spiritual truth to purify mans spirit by trials and tribulations of earthly things: And God also purifies mankind with " Day of the Lord" a destruction from the almighty; making man rare as the Golden wedge of Ophir. With few men left; When God purifies the earth also with fire Hail and rain. Each man must discern for himself, what Gods words mean, with Help of the spirit.

It is written that when the flesh is weak, the spirit is strong. Lean not unto thine own understanding; But unto every word which comes from God.

I pray my words do not offend, God bless Christians in Forum and all who use it.
</IMG></IMG>

I totally agree

We will trust men; be it a scholar from Harvard or Yale with their bias and interpretations; but what about spiritual principles. In other words God&#8217;s Word hidden; but the veil is tore from top to bottom; hidden manna, revelation or the unveiling. It was just last week there was a discussion on a national talk show of one of their professor&#8217;s from Harvard publishing an article in a Swedish Journal; BUT he would not publish the same article in the US. The reason was the article when against his liberal bias; the facts were there; BUT what mattered to him was the bias.

I see the spiritual principles in scripture, I see how God has hidden His deep and awesome word from carnal religious people and especially the world; the wide gate of destruction. I see the letter that killeth, and the spirit how it brings the reality of what God is saying with those with ears that hear. There comes a place where what matters is what God&#8217;s Spirit is saying within; and all this religious worldly wisdom of man and His systems.

 

[LJSGM]

I totally agree

We will trust men; be it a scholar from Harvard or Yale with their bias and interpretations; but what about spiritual principles. In other words God&#8217;s Word hidden; but the veil is tore from top to bottom; hidden manna, revelation or the unveiling. It was just last week there was a discussion on a national talk show of one of their professor&#8217;s from Harvard publishing an article in a Swedish Journal; BUT he would not publish the same article in the US. The reason was the article when against his liberal bias; the facts were there; BUT what mattered to him was the bias.

I see the spiritual principles in scripture, I see how God has hidden His deep and awesome word from carnal religious people and especially the world; the wide gate of destruction. I see the letter that killeth, and the spirit how it brings the reality of what God is saying with those with ears that hear. There comes a place where what matters is what God&#8217;s Spirit is saying within; and all this religious worldly wisdom of man and His systems.

I don't read the works of men. I read the bible and allow the Holy Spirit to guide me. You are not the only one with "eyes to see."

Romans 12


3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

 

[Ben12]

I don't read the works of men. I read the bible and allow the Holy Spirit to guide me. You are not the only one with "eyes to see."

Romans 12


3For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the measure of faith God has given you.

Amen

Accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. Amen.

 

[james415]

Amen

Accordance with the measure of faith God has given you. Amen.

Thanks you two. I knew it said faith was from God some where in the bible. I just couldn't remember where it was (Needed it for another thread.).

Amen!

 

[Ben12]

Thanks you two. I knew it said faith was from God some where in the bible. I just couldn't remember where it was (Needed it for another thread.).

Amen!

Not just faith fom God. BUT: "Accordance with the measure of faith God has given you". Some 30, 60 and 100 fold.