Hell is a correctional jail

[SoundCard]

How is it not God calling all people? Everyone has the chance for salvation. Everyone can hear the call. But not everyone will hearken onto it! Some will go in their ways and defy the call to Salvation by their own choice.

 

[Ben12]

How is it not God calling all people? Everyone has the chance for salvation. Everyone can hear the call. But not everyone will hearken onto it! Some will go in their ways and defy the call to Salvation by their own choice.

How can a dead man hear God; they are dead in trustpasses and sin. No one comes to the Faher unless the Father draw/drags Him. It is grace we are saved, not freewill.

 

[Nadiine]

We know this God is not calling all people now.

YOU don't know that... BUT I DO KNOW HE IS!.

 

[Nadiine]

I purposely addressed OTHER side issues regarding judgment & faith/unto salvation -
and you STILL refuse scripture teaching on it.

With that, I'm unsubsubcribing to this thread and shake the dust from my strappy sandals.
Those with ears will hear the truth.

Universalism is a FALSE doctrine.

ps ben: what do YOU care if I agree w/ you or not or know "your god" or not? - I make it into heaven anyways. right? So who cares!

 

[Ben12]

I purposely addressed OTHER side issues regarding judgment & faith/unto salvation -
and you STILL refuse scripture teaching on it.

With that, I'm unsubsubcribing to this thread and shake the dust from my strappy sandals.
Those with ears will hear the truth.

Universalism is a FALSE doctrine.

ps ben: what do YOU care if I agree w/ you or not or know "your god" or not? - I make it into heaven anyways. right? So who cares!

Enjoyed your debate; God Bless

 

[SoundCard]

John 5:19-30 NIV

19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

 

[Ben12]

YOU don't know that... BUT I DO KNOW HE IS!.

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in His own order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at His coming." (I Cor. 15:22-23). There is no doubt concerning the totality of salvation for every man-- whatever was affected by death through Adam, shall be MADE ALIVE THROUGH CHRIST. The triumph of Christ is far greater than the sin of Adam. But the point that is before us is that of TIMING-- with "every man in his own order." There is DIVINE ORDER in this NEW CREATION that is being brought forth, as God gathers one by one a people unto Himself. From Calvary until this present time, God has been working in what is rightly termed "HIS FIRSTFRUITS." We who are living at the ending of this age (web ed. note: which still could be a long ways away) are still being drawn into this "firstfruits order." But never forget, the firstfruits of a harvest are the PROMISE that all the rest of the harvest will follow in its time.

 

[Ben12]

John 5:19-30 NIV

19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. 20For the Father loves the Son and shows him all he does. Yes, to your amazement he will show him even greater things than these. 21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son, 23that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.

Amen

 

[Nadiine]

John 5:19-30 NIV

27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice
29and come out—those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.

Absolutely - once again, IT REFUTES UNIVERSALISM - we've provided dozens of scriptures that directly and indirectly teach this by support.

On that note of TRUTH, I'm officially unsubsubscribing -

God bless all you guys that gave input and reject this dangerous teaching of eternal life granted to the unrepentant who reject the Son of God.

 

[7angel]

For that they do not have mercy


19 Jesus answered, "I say to you, not seven times but seventy-seven times.

23 That is why the kingdom of heaven may be likened to a king who decided to settle accounts with his servants.
24 20 When he began the accounting, a debtor was brought before him who owed him a huge amount.
25 Since he had no way of paying it back, his master ordered him to be sold, along with his wife, his children, and all his property, in payment of the debt.
26 21 At that, the servant fell down, did him homage, and said, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back in full.'
27 Moved with compassion the master of that servant let him go and forgave him the loan.
28 When that servant had left, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a much smaller amount. 22 He seized him and started to choke him, demanding, 'Pay back what you owe.'
29 Falling to his knees, his fellow servant begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.'
30 But he refused. Instead, he had him put in prison until he paid back the debt.
31 Now when his fellow servants saw what had happened, they were deeply disturbed, and went to their master and reported the whole affair.
32 His master summoned him and said to him, 'You wicked servant! I forgave you your entire debt because you begged me to.
33 Should you not have had pity on your fellow servant, as I had pity on you?'
34 Then in anger his master handed him over to the torturers until he should pay back the whole debt. 23
35 24 So will my heavenly Father do to you, unless each of you forgives his brother from his heart."

 

[james415]

I purposely addressed OTHER side issues regarding judgment & faith/unto salvation -
and you STILL refuse scripture teaching on it.

With that, I'm unsubsubcribing to this thread and shake the dust from my strappy sandals.
Those with ears will hear the truth.

Universalism is a FALSE doctrine.

ps ben: what do YOU care if I agree w/ you or not or know "your god" or not? - I make it into heaven anyways. right? So who cares!

You are still ignoring the underlined part of the verse you quoted that says faith is not from us but a gift from God.
It is His refining fire that produces our faith. Some sooner than later, but eventually all.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Sorry to see you giving up.

 

[SoundCard]

And for one who is without a beginning or an end, who decrees people who transgress the law set down in sin, is an appointed time to pay for sins in Hell? If the days of counting down to His return are done, then what time is left but eternity to pay for sins weighted on people's hearts that have not come to Christ? God's grace is open to all, but much as Adam chose to sin in the garden, people must choose to sin or accept Christ and find atonement in his sacrifice, or remain cut off from Him. It is said Christ's blood will be what washes away sin, not the lake of fire. I haven't seen it written, those who go to the grave in sin are taken up at the last day and washed with the blood of the Lamb. I do not read them as being cleansed by his blood in the lake of fire. You will not find Christ in hell, for he has not sinned or transgressed the law. I can't say anything more than I have already. I can only say what I've been lead to believe. I haven't seen people say they don't believe condemnation isn't there, but rather, it isn't everlasting. Yet, in Revelations 21, does He not say It is Done? If redemption of sin continues beyond that time, would it not say it clearly?

God bless.

 

[SoulFly51]

There you go with your credible seminaries; they are human build with a religious bias. I trust nothing of man and his religion.

What do you mean you don't trust man? You can't read your Bible without trusting another man. You can't even take the manuscripts we have, arrange them in the order they're suppossed to go in, and then translate them, so don't sit there and say you don't trust others when you're quoting from a modern translation of the Bible.

Also - it is very dangerous and unwise to say "the Greek says this or that" when you don't read or speak the language.

Truth always stands up to the hardest questions. Truth isn't always what one would like it to be.

Searching for sources and quotes to support an argument devoid of truth doesn't make it any more true - it simply makes the person doing that more of a fool.

 

[icedtea]

In Revelation, it says those who worshipped the beast will be tormented and the smoke will go up forever and ever.
Wrong? A mistake? interpret it however you want?

 

[PeacaHeaven]

What do you mean you don't trust man? You can't read your Bible without trusting another man. You can't even take the manuscripts we have, arrange them in the order they're suppossed to go in, and then translate them, so don't sit there and say you don't trust others when you're quoting from a modern translation of the Bible.

Also - it is very dangerous and unwise to say "the Greek says this or that" when you don't read or speak the language.

Truth always stands up to the hardest questions. Truth isn't always what one would like it to be.

Searching for sources and quotes to support an argument devoid of truth doesn't make it any more true - it simply makes the person doing that more of a fool.

Every post of yours was informative.

I would like to add that his denial of the Greek doesn't work either because it isn't only those few passages that teach that these people won't enter God's kingdom at any time.
The entire new testament repeats that it's permanent in different ways.

When you read all the verses provided here, the truth is obvious that people are not getting out of this place and entering heaven.

What else I notice is that they don't have any scriptures that explain this so called process of people getting back out. They just use verses that pertain to life right now while we have the opportunity to accept Christ for our eternal life.
Or they just read it into passages anywhere they want.

God has spelled it all out. Its my opinion that denying this much information is proving that they just don't want to believe what God has said by His word.

 

[Ben12]

What do you mean you don't trust man? You can't read your Bible without trusting another man. You can't even take the manuscripts we have, arrange them in the order they're suppossed to go in, and then translate them, so don't sit there and say you don't trust others when you're quoting from a modern translation of the Bible.

Also - it is very dangerous and unwise to say "the Greek says this or that" when you don't read or speak the language.

Truth always stands up to the hardest questions. Truth isn't always what one would like it to be.

Searching for sources and quotes to support an argument devoid of truth doesn't make it any more true - it simply makes the person doing that more of a fool.

I agree totally with what I said; BUT I do trust the anointing in people. For years I have rejected man and His teaching and have followed the leading of the Holy Spirit which is in all of us. Sure I read my Bible but I let my spirit not my brain leads me. It is more then language; or religion; it is by God Spirit. You can call me a fool all you want; but I have seen things so deep and awesome. The religious realms goes round in round with anything spiritual; but they rejected God’s anointing or are totally anti anointing; in other words anti Christ (same thing)

 

[Nadiine]

I agree totally with what I said; BUT I do trust the anointing in people. For years I have rejected man and His teaching and have followed the leading of the Holy Spirit which is in all of us. Sure I read my Bible but I let my spirit not my brain leads me. It is more then language; or religion; it is by God Spirit. You can call me a fool all you want; but I have seen things so deep and awesome. The religious realms goes round in round with anything spiritual; but they rejected God’s anointing or are totally anti anointing; in other words anti Christ (same thing)

(not related to hell issue - I AM unsubsubscribed - I came here thru the forum link and I'm not debating)

*YOU DO REALIZE THAT YOU TOO ARE JUST A "MAN"?? FALLIBLE LIKE ALL OTHERS?? AND LIKE ALL OTHERS WHO ALSO CLAIM CHRIST??

You are not incapable of error yourself as a human and as a self proclaiming Christian. Unless you believe we should seek YOU for our truth about God & all things spiritual?

* *

 

[Ben12]

(not related to hell issue - I AM unsubsubscribed - I came here thru the forum link and I'm not debating)

*YOU DO REALIZE THAT YOU TOO ARE JUST A "MAN"?? FALLIBLE LIKE ALL OTHERS?? AND LIKE ALL OTHERS WHO ALSO CLAIM CHRIST??

You are not incapable of error yourself as a human and as a self proclaiming Christian. Unless you believe we should seek YOU for our truth about God & all things spiritual?

* *

Please do not seek me for you are absolutely right. I see the Christ in you; I also see the religion. I know God’s Word has three elements to make it present truth, the corn the wine and the oil. (Corn (God’s Word) wine (revelation of the Spirit) oil (God’s anointing)

2 Peter 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth. Or along side the truth; as truth is revealed I move with it. Just like the manna in the wilderness; everyday God’s people had to gather new manna; because the old stunk.


John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (KJV)

 

[Tavita]

Every post of yours was informative.

I would like to add that his denial of the Greek doesn't work either because it isn't only those few passages that teach that these people won't enter God's kingdom at any time.
The entire new testament repeats that it's permanent in different ways.

When you read all the verses provided here, the truth is obvious that people are not getting out of this place and entering heaven.

What else I notice is that they don't have any scriptures that explain this so called process of people getting back out. They just use verses that pertain to life right now while we have the opportunity to accept Christ for our eternal life.
Or they just read it into passages anywhere they want.

God has spelled it all out. Its my opinion that denying this much information is proving that they just don't want to believe what God has said by His word.

You can't just find a few verses that say what happens after the Lake of Fire. Scripture goes deeper than that. You need to take into consideration God's nature, His attributes, and what He has shown you of Himself as revealed through the entire scriptures.

He reveals Himself as a God of love, mercy and compassion, sure, but He also shows Himself as a severe judge. He is balanced. His is a tough love, but He has also shown Himself to be a JUST judge.

In His balance of love and justice the scriptures show Him as redemptive and restorative. Whenever you look around the scriptures you will see that nature. When He tears down it is always to build up. It's shown time and time again in His dealings with Israel and with people individually. His nature is to RESTORE, and to make all things new.

He also says that judgment BEGINS in the house of God, and He's doing that now. How does He judge us? By putting us through the fire. What is the purpose of the fire? To purge of dross and anything unclean, to bring forth gold. His principles are the same, HE changes not. Rev 3:18 "I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see." His motive is always love, to bring out the best, to turn it into gold, to bring not only mankind but ALL of creation through the fire to renew and restore to perfection. He is a God of restoration. 2Pe 3:13 'But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.' If His desire is to restore all of creation, and we will readily agree with that, then why would He want to throw mankind away as some sort of trash?

We also need to remember that Jesus HAS ALREADY purchased/redeemed ALL of mankind, and the scriptures do not tell me anywhere that it is only in this lifetime we are given the gift of responding to Him.

There are many scriptures that show a severe judgment, and it's through the mindset taught us in the church which has been taught to the world, through Dante's Inferno, with preconceived ideas, and through the wickedness in our own hearts that we read these scriptures and show God to be a monster with a heart of hatred, who tells us to love our enemies but doesn't do it Himself.

 

[LJSGM]

In Revelation, it says those who worshipped the beast will be tormented and the smoke will go up forever and ever.
Wrong? A mistake? interpret it however you want?

You left out tormented day and night, this right here indicates that it is perhaps on this earth, perhaps hades (the spirit realm, where the brimstone is?).The old testament spoke of abraham's bosum, as someone else said was most likely hades (the place of the dead) where they were protected by God. (why is it that when people drive out demons, that they smell sulfur?) Perhaps it is a waiting place for the judgement which will be at the end of this age.

Matthew 10

28Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell

This here indicates to me that the soul does not die unless God destroys it. Death and hades will be destroyed in the gehenna (lake of fire).

I believe though that Jesus opened the gates of hades, when he went there during his death and before his resurrection, and that those in Christ no longer end up there. And all those in Abrahams bosum where let out. Where did they go? I don't know.

Also, in the verse that you mentioned, the word "forever and ever" is not the same word used for God's eternity, or the same word used for "eternal punishment" such as we see in matthew I believe it is. The word "forever and ever" could have been mistranslated and it may actually mean "an age" or this age.