How the Democratic Party opposes Christian Principles

[PassionFruit]

"Atheistic Liberal" "Atheistic lifestyle!?" Please stop making up these phrases. It's not funny anymore.

 

[dlamberth]

Could it be that the propaganda of the Atheistic Liberal News Media is very effective?

I wouldn't call it a very effective Liberal propaganda. The Atheistic Liberal News Media sure failed us Liberals when it was needed the most...which was in the lead up to the invasion of Iraq. It also failed us as a liberal propaganda during the tax cut time of Bush's first term. It's failed to support a universal health care system as well as calls for investigation and impeachment of this president and vice-president. The list of the in-effectiveness of the Atheistic Liberal News Media is so glairing that I can’t help but wonder if perhaps the News Media leans way more to the right than you believe and is not as Atheistic as you propose.

.

 

[elanor]

I consider how a person votes as a very serious matter. To me advocating and voting for Christian Principles is a testimony of being a Christian. Your vote may not be known to other people, but it is known by God.

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree! So, I gather you'll be considering the following when you vote:

• How our government treats those among us who live in poverty
• How our government helps ensure that the sick are cared for
• How our government treats those who are imprisoned
• How our government makes children a priority (universal health care for kids, subsidized daycare for parents who need help, education for all children regardless of a family's socioeconomic status, restrictions on pollutants that are proven to be hazardous to pregnant women and infants)
• How our government helps ensure that the elderly among use are respected and cared for (ensuring that social security and medicare are strong, and that prescription medications are available at a manageable price)

To make it a priority to care for the weakest among us, the poor, the sick, the prisoners, the children--these seem to me to be right in line with Jesus' teachings. And I always keep these in the forefront of my mind when I vote. I'm delighted that you will be doing the same!

 

[clirus]

Nathan Poe quote

I have been presented with such a view -- thanks to you. I now reject your "Christian Lifestyle" more than I ever did.

You've failed, clirus.

Response

Maybe I failed, but I tried.

If I am wrong is what I present, God will hold be accountable.

I judge myself by the ability to get a good nights sleep. So far I have had no trouble sleeping.

 

[clirus]

Flynmonkie quote

That being said, your not worried about my vote known by God, your worried about my vote in opposition to your own. I can substantiate my reasons. Where are yours? Where is your Christian excuse that my son has not seen a doctor in three years because we cannot afford the thearpy and he is uninsurable. Where is your Christian spirit when my grandmother cannot get the meds she needs working on three different SS accounts that have been paid in for her welfare? Where is your Christian attitude when your Republican votes to swindle all the new college students by selling their MOHELA loans off to private entities that will not honor the privisions of a government subsidized note that had been agreed on (fluxuating interest rates). Luckily, someone smart enough raised the idea it was illegal. Ya Think? Pretty darn scary to have someone in that position that would go to such extents with something before even checking the legalities, that pretty much should be common sense. How's about your Christian vote when that same Republican thinks the way to teach our children is to have "gun-toting"' teachers??... If ya don't mind, we'll shoot ya!

Response

Over and over again, you prove my point that prevention is better than cure, because you present a set of problems that cannot be cured, except that God would preform a miracle. The democrats are not going to cure the problems you stated. The Republicans are not going to cure the problems you stated. The difference is that Republicans favor prevention and democrats keep promising a cure.

As for the problems that you are facing, I am reminded of two passages from the Bible.

John 9:3 states, "Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

Philippians 4:11 states, "Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content".

I believe that necessity of "gun-toting" teachers is not going to get better until America returns to the Christian Family concept.

 

[clirus]

elanor quote

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree! So, I gather you'll be considering the following when you vote:

* How our government treats those among us who live in poverty
* How our government helps ensure that the sick are cared for
* How our government treats those who are imprisoned
* How our government makes children a priority (universal health care for kids, subsidized daycare for parents who need help, education for all children regardless of a family's socioeconomic status, restrictions on pollutants that are proven to be hazardous to pregnant women and infants)
* How our government helps ensure that the elderly among use are respected and cared for (ensuring that social security and medicare are strong, and that prescription medications are available at a manageable price)

To make it a priority to care for the weakest among us, the poor, the sick, the prisoners, the children--these seem to me to be right in line with Jesus' teachings. And I always keep these in the forefront of my mind when I vote. I'm delighted that you will be doing the same!

Response

The above items could be converted into a pray to the government.

My question is: Can any of the items really be changed if there is no change to the heart of the person that is involved?

You can make people feel good or you can change their lives. Jesus Christ can change peoples lives, the government can only make them feel good.

God commands Christians to have charity to the needy. God does not command the government take care of the needy.

I Timothy 5:8 states, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Exodus 20:12 states, " Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."

The solution to the problem of the needy is prevention and personal responsibility to those around us.

Republicans favor prevention and personal responsibility and democrats keep promising to make people feel good.

 

[IzzyPop]

elanor quote

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree! So, I gather you'll be considering the following when you vote:

* How our government treats those among us who live in poverty
* How our government helps ensure that the sick are cared for
* How our government treats those who are imprisoned
* How our government makes children a priority (universal health care for kids, subsidized daycare for parents who need help, education for all children regardless of a family's socioeconomic status, restrictions on pollutants that are proven to be hazardous to pregnant women and infants)
* How our government helps ensure that the elderly among use are respected and cared for (ensuring that social security and medicare are strong, and that prescription medications are available at a manageable price)

To make it a priority to care for the weakest among us, the poor, the sick, the prisoners, the children--these seem to me to be right in line with Jesus' teachings. And I always keep these in the forefront of my mind when I vote. I'm delighted that you will be doing the same!

Response

The above items could be converted into a pray to the government.

My question is: Can any of the items really be changed if there is no change to the heart of the person that is involved?

You can make people feel good or you can change their lives. Jesus Christ can change peoples lives, the government can only make them feel good.

God commands Christians to have charity to the needy. God does not command the government take care of the needy.

I Timothy 5:8 states, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Exodus 20:12 states, " Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee."

The solution to the problem of the needy is prevention and personal responsibility to those around us.

Republicans favor prevention and personal responsibility and democrats keep promising to make people feel good.

While all of this sounds good (it actually does not, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt), can you demonstrate specific examples of Republican policies and or bills passed or proposed in the last 8 years that promote prevention is the areas of the five examples given? Otherwise it is nothing other than fluff.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Maybe I failed, but I tried.

If I am wrong is what I present, God will hold be accountable.

I judge myself by the ability to get a good nights sleep. So far I have had no trouble sleeping.

But that's not how you judge others. Why do you keep such a double standard?

I sleep very well at night. So do many other Atheists. You're the one who gets all bent out of shape over us.

And you still haven't answered my question: If the government ever does adopt the "Christian Lifestyle," what will it do to me?

 

[dlamberth]

My question is: Can any of the items really be changed if there is no change to the heart of the person that is involved?

Exactly where in the Bible did Jesus tell us that our helping those in need should be conditional?

.

 

[Flynmonkie]

Flynmonkie quote

That being said, your not worried about my vote known by God, your worried about my vote in opposition to your own. I can substantiate my reasons. Where are yours? Where is your Christian excuse that my son has not seen a doctor in three years because we cannot afford the thearpy and he is uninsurable. Where is your Christian spirit when my grandmother cannot get the meds she needs working on three different SS accounts that have been paid in for her welfare? Where is your Christian attitude when your Republican votes to swindle all the new college students by selling their MOHELA loans off to private entities that will not honor the privisions of a government subsidized note that had been agreed on (fluxuating interest rates). Luckily, someone smart enough raised the idea it was illegal. Ya Think? Pretty darn scary to have someone in that position that would go to such extents with something before even checking the legalities, that pretty much should be common sense. How's about your Christian vote when that same Republican thinks the way to teach our children is to have "gun-toting"' teachers??... If ya don't mind, we'll shoot ya!

Response

Over and over again, you prove my point that prevention is better than cure, because you present a set of problems that cannot be cured, except that God would preform a miracle. The democrats are not going to cure the problems you stated. The Republicans are not going to cure the problems you stated. The difference is that Republicans favor prevention and democrats keep promising a cure.

As for the problems that you are facing, I am reminded of two passages from the Bible.

John 9:3 states, "Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him."

Philippians 4:11 states, "Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content".

I believe that necessity of "gun-toting" teachers is not going to get better until America returns to the Christian Family concept.

Philippians 4:11 states, "Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content".
Thank GOD for that verse, let me tell ya! I never KNEW how much I would need it. Of course, I never knew other Christians would use this as an elitist ploy to encourage others to feel secure in poverty while they live the "high" life. (Although I always am assured I am safe and secure - He hasn't let me down yet!)

I never said prevention was not important. However virtues may be taught without oppression via a constitution that is designed to prevent such things, shelter from Religious control. Why did our founders arrive here? They were seeking refuge from oppressive Religious State.

You still have not answered my question, care to explain the Republican stance in my State alone?

Gun toting teachers, yeah, there’s a modeling in leadership I want to see. Good grief!

I believe that concept, in and of itself, is contradictory to our constitution. We know everyone will resort to shooting each other to get "their way," so implementing it would regress us back to an even more savage state of nature. This has NOTHING to do with prevention, but everything to do with dictatorship and oppression. HUGE set of chompers waiting for you on that one.

 

[clirus]

IzzyPop quote

While all of this sounds good (it actually does not, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt), can you demonstrate specific examples of Republican policies and or bills passed or proposed in the last 8 years that promote prevention is the areas of the five examples given? Otherwise it is nothing other than fluff.

Response

I keep trying to convince people that government social programs do not work, whether they are Republican programs or democratic programs. In general, Republicans do not propose social programs.

Of course, the democrats have all kinds of social programs. But let me ask a question. Can you demonstrate specific examples of democratic policies and or bills passed or proposed that have solved any of the social issues that were mentioned?

A government cannot create an ethical society by imposing ethics, however an ethical society can be created when God imposes ethics on people and the people vote for ethical government leaders. A government can create an unethical/Atheistic society by opposing Christian ethics.

My concern about government began when the courts (government) began to impose Atheism by legalizing pornography, abortion and homosexuality, all of which the Bible condemns. The trend of the government promoting/supporting Atheism will lead to disease, death and destruction for America.

Separation of Church and State means the Church should not execute, control, restrict, destroy, force, etc. and the State should not legalize sin by legalizing those things that the Bible clearly calls evil. The State should not participate in social programs that facilitate sin or reward sinful behavior.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I keep trying to convince people that government social programs do not work, whether they are Republican programs or democratic programs. In general, Republicans do not propose social programs.

Of course, the democrats have all kinds of social programs. But let me ask a question. Can you demonstrate specific examples of democratic policies and or bills passed or proposed that have solved any of the social issues that were mentioned?

So the difference is, Democrats try but fail, Republicans don't bother trying.

A government cannot create an ethical society by imposing ethics, however an ethical society can be created when God imposes ethics on people and the people vote for ethical government leaders. A government can create an unethical/Atheistic society by opposing Christian ethics.

So, it would thus be impossible for the government to create an ethical society by imposing Christian ethics, nevertheless, you want them to do just that.

My concern about government began when the courts (government) began to impose Atheism by legalizing pornography, abortion and homosexuality, all of which the Bible condemns. The trend of the government promoting/supporting Atheism will lead to disease, death and destruction for America.

When was homosexuality ever outlawed in America? When did outlawing pornography make it magically go away?

"A government cannot create an ethical society by imposing ethics," remember?

Separation of Church and State means the Church should not execute, control, restrict, destroy, force, etc. and the State should not legalize sin by legalizing those things that the Bible clearly calls evil. The State should not participate in social programs that facilitate sin or reward sinful behavior.

Aren't you forgetting something, clirus?

"Sin" is a Christian concept. For true separation of Church and State, the government should not attempt to define sin, nor legislate based on it.

And my original question still stands, clirus -- I'll keep asking it until you answer:

If the government legislates the "Christian Lifestyle," as you want it to, what should it do to me?

 

[dlamberth]

I keep trying to convince people that government social programs do not work, whether they are Republican programs or democratic programs.

Am I miss-reading something here?!? All of this time what I've been hearing you saying is that social programs are evil and are that they are un-Christian. I believe that this is the first time I've heard you say that social programs do not work. To that point what I have to say is that I have to thank Medicare for my son's new kidney. Medicare worked very well for him. Like my son, Medicare has worked for millions of other American as well. So I just think your fill of a lot of bunk when you say that social programs do not work.

.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Am I miss-reading something here?!? All of this time what I've been hearing you saying is that social programs are evil and are that they are un-Christian. I believe that this is the first time I've heard you say that social programs do not work. To that point what I have to say is that I have to thank Medicare for my son's new kidney. Medicare worked very well for him. Like my son, Medicare has worked for millions of other American as well. So I just think your fill of a lot of bunk when you say that social programs do not work.

.

I think what clirus means (and I do hope I'm wrong) is that because Sin is the cause of death, disease, and destruction, your son was obviously engaged in some sort of sinful activity which caused him to need a new kidney, (or perhaps you were doing something sinful, and God was punishing you through your son -- as He tended to do throughout the OT) and that by providing one, the government was endorsing sin. Prevention is more important than cure, remember?

Personally, I think that's a load of hogwash -- I'm glad your son got the kidney he needed.

 

[Allahuakbar]

I keep trying to convince people that government social programs do not work, whether they are Republican programs or democratic programs. In general, Republicans do not propose social programs.

All social programs do not work? Which social programs specifically do not work? Which social programs do work?

Of course, the democrats have all kinds of social programs. But let me ask a question. Can you demonstrate specific examples of democratic policies and or bills passed or proposed that have solved any of the social issues that were mentioned?

What programs are you talking about?

My concern about government began when the courts (government) began to impose Atheism by legalizing pornography

What does atheism have to do with pornography?

abortion and homosexuality

What does atheism have to do with abortion and homosexuality?

 

[Flynmonkie]

I think what clirus means (and I do hope I'm wrong) is that because Sin is the cause of death, disease, and destruction, your son was obviously engaged in some sort of sinful activity which caused him to need a new kidney, (or perhaps you were doing something sinful, and God was punishing you through your son -- as He tended to do throughout the OT) and that by providing one, the government was endorsing sin. Prevention is more important than cure, remember?

Personally, I think that's a load of hogwash -- I'm glad your son got the kidney he needed.

I believe God is not the CAUSE of illness and sickness, it is a product of dealing with this world. If it is not good, it is not of God.

 

[Nathan Poe]

I believe God is not the CAUSE of illness and sickness, it is a product of dealing with this world. If it is not good, it is not of God.

If you read Exodus, I think the Egyptians would disagree.

 

[Flynmonkie]

If you read Exodus, I think the Egyptians would disagree.

That would be a whole 'nother thread in and of itself. Although it would be interesting! I am too tired and this thread is too all over the place to explain. It is all about interpretation. You have to remember, I am an existential Christian. I am not any fun to argue with

Short answer, yes people suffer consequence of their action. If you are disobedient consequence will follow. Will that work or are your going to make me go into a long drawn out answer that I KNOW is going to set this guy off even more.

 

[Ringo84]

Separation of Church and State means the Church should not execute, control, restrict, destroy, force, etc. and the State should not legalize sin by legalizing those things that the Bible clearly calls evil. The State should not participate in social programs that facilitate sin or reward sinful behavior.

No it doesn't. Separation of church and state means that the church institution does not interfere with the government, and the government does not interfere with the church. The government hasn't the religious freedom to decide what is "sin" and what isn't. That's up to the individual conscience.
Ringo

 

[christalee4]

That this thread is still open is amazing.

Based on an earlier post, Clirus, if at least half of Americans suddenly became Biblically pure, how would you go about (presuming you were the President of this country) of eliminating those who did not agree with Biblical Law?

Biblical Law is harsh, and requires execution and punishment of those who not only disobey, but who also disagree with the religion in charge.

How would you execute up to at least 100 million people for disobeying Biblical Law?