how can the universe be 6000 years old.....

[baptistchristian28]

and we be able to see andromeda?

 

[philadiddle]

and we be able to see andromeda?

That's the way God made it and you don't have the right to question that.

/sarcasm

 

[laptoppop]

Two easy explanations.
1) God created the universe "mature", just as He made Adam as a man, not a baby. Light captured in flight so that the heavens declare His glory.

2) The Scriptures about God stretching the heavens have meaning in terms of light, etc. I don't understand the math and haven't looked at this in detail, but there are folks that do and have looked at it, and it is a very real possibility.

 

[archaeologist]

very simple: the creative act was a supernatural one which human investigation cannot comprehend nor measure correctly.

going by human measurements and understanding, which are fallible, limited and so on one only receives a picture from the human perspective. God does not do things according to human perspective but according to who He is and the power He possesses

when God created light , the stars, the moon the sun and so on, He was not limited by the human measurement of light speed. creating something superaturally is not deceptive, for then all healings would be deceptive as well, it is creating supernaturally and putting all things into place to begin life on this planet.

i will stop there for now and wait for the critics to arrive

 

[Ave Maria]

It is not possible. To say that God created the universe as mature and that the light was already in motion at creation is to make God into a liar. God would not make things into looking as though they really are not.

 

[amadeus2]

Science is imperfect until God considered. Without Him in any equation, the equation only seems to show certain results.

 

[laptoppop]

It is not possible. To say that God created the universe as mature and that the light was already in motion at creation is to make God into a liar. God would not make things into looking as though they really are not.

In what way? He made Adam and Eve as fully mature people. He does not lie, but His creation was made His way. We do know that the heavens declare His glory. The universe is in a wonderfully stable condition. I gave 2 possibilities, but if He did create the universe as mature, perhaps another reason was to provide a stable universe for us. Scripture does not say that He made the universe immature and unstable.

 

[philadiddle]

Two easy explanations.
1) God created the universe "mature", just as He made Adam as a man, not a baby. Light captured in flight so that the heavens declare His glory.

Translation: "God did it!"

2) The Scriptures about God stretching the heavens have meaning in terms of light, etc. I don't understand the math and haven't looked at this in detail, but there are folks that do and have looked at it, and it is a very real possibility.

Translation: "God did it! And somebody can make a formula that makes it look possible even though it discounts everything from red shift to light from supernovas and the radiation from it's surroundings." (I can explain the supernova thing I'm refering to if you would like me to.)

Kinda funny how YECs claim that evolutionist manipulate information, while they come up with formulas to make light arrive in a fraction of the realistic time it would take.

very simple: the creative act was a supernatural one which human investigation cannot comprehend nor measure correctly.

going by human measurements and understanding, which are fallible, limited and so on one only receives a picture from the human perspective. God does not do things according to human perspective but according to who He is and the power He possesses

when God created light , the stars, the moon the sun and so on, He was not limited by the human measurement of light speed. creating something superaturally is not deceptive, for then all healings would be deceptive as well, it is creating supernaturally and putting all things into place to begin life on this planet.

i will stop there for now and wait for the critics to arrive

Translation: "God did it!"

Science is imperfect until God considered. Without Him in any equation, the equation only seems to show certain results.

By definition science can't include God because it's supposed to investigate nature, His creation. You've created a paradox by saying God must be considered in science.

 

[philadiddle]

In what way? He made Adam and Eve as fully mature people. He does not lie, but His creation was made His way. We do know that the heavens declare His glory. The universe is in a wonderfully stable condition. I gave 2 possibilities, but if He did create the universe as mature, perhaps another reason was to provide a stable universe for us. Scripture does not say that He made the universe immature and unstable.

Adam wouldn't have had scars and a memory of life on the farm with grandpa. There's a difference between maturity and history. The universe seems to have history.

 

[Galle]

In what way? He made Adam and Eve as fully mature people. He does not lie, but His creation was made His way....

Are you actually claiming that Last-Thursdayism is an honest possibility?!

 

[laptoppop]

Yes, I am claiming that God could have made the universe as mature and stable if He chose to.

 

[Epiphoskei]

It is not possible. To say that God created the universe as mature and that the light was already in motion at creation is to make God into a liar. God would not make things into looking as though they really are not.

Why on earth not?

To say that modern science is true does not mean that a modern worldview and modernistic definitions of stars are the right worldview and definitions. Stars exist for us to look at - as far as the ancients were concerned, they are both the lights and the light itself. It stands to reason that what he created on the fourth day was visible the moment created- that was kind of his point in creating them. They exist to be seen.

Accordingly, with the paralell objection that supernovas which must never have existed are similarly false, why on earth can't he have created an end to the light? If he didn't do it as part of creation, he certainly is free to have done it as part of the curse.

Stars are for us. They are as "real" as we see them, since they exist to be seen.

 

[archaeologist]

Translation: "God did it!"

this we know.

By definition science can't include God because it's supposed to investigate nature, His creation.

but then you cannot explore how God did it by examining God's creation because creation is a result of that method and not the method itself. the method may be different than one's interpretation of looking at the result.

 

[JGL53]

God made the universe to appear as if it were 14 billions years old?

God made the solar system and the earth to appear as if they were 4.5 billion years old?

God made the fossils to appear as if unicellular life evolved first, around 3.8 billion years ago, then multi-cellular life evolved around 800 million years ago?

God made it appear as if there was an asteroid strike near the Yucatan Peninsula about 65 million years ago that killed off 70 per cent of the species on earth at the time?

God made it appear that the Neolithic cave paintings found in modern France and Spain are 30,000 years old?

Hmmm.

God is Loki.

Cool.

 

[archaeologist]

God made the universe to appear as if it were 14 billions years old?

this is based upon secular man's interpretation and limited measuring capibilities, doesn't make it true.

God made the solar system and the earth to appear as if they were 4.5 billion years old?

same as above

God made the fossils to appear as if unicellular life evolved first, around 3.8 billion years ago, then multi-cellular life evolved around 800 million years ago?

same as above

God made it appear as if there was an asteroid strike near the Yucatan Peninsula about 65 million years ago that killed off 70 per cent of the species on earth at the time

same as above

God made it appear that the Neolithic cave paintings found in modern France and Spain are 30,000 years old?

same as above

 

[JGL53]

this is based upon secular man's interpretation and limited measuring capibilities, doesn't make it true.



same as above



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But as I indicated, if not true, then god is apparently Loki.

 

[KerrMetric]

You cannot argue againt the truly irrational. What we have exhibited on this thread are some responses that are nothing short of psychotic delusion.

 

[Galle]

this is based upon secular man's interpretation and limited measuring capibilities, doesn't make it true.

In the first place, many scientists are religious. In the second place, valid science is independent of a scientist's beliefs. Given the same experimental setup, a Hindu, an atheist, and a Christian will have the same results. A valid scientific explanation for a Hindu scientist will be equally valid for an atheist and for a Christian. Thirdly, scientific theories are provisional--everything is subject to revision should contradictory evidence come to light. That said, unless you actually have this contradictory evidence, it's impossible to say how a theory is inaccurate and what the better theory is.

Unless you have an actual specific objection, it's clear that your entire argument is little more than an ad hominem fallacy.

Isn't it odd that creationists claim to value reason and integrity, but never bother to correct or criticize archaeologist? You'd think that sooner or later, laptoppop or Floodnut or somebody would step in, but this never seems to happen. Gee, why is this?

 

[TheReasoner]

It is physically impossible. The universe is roughly 13.7 billion years. (+- 200 million years)

If it were only 6 000 years old... Well, let's ignore that we wouldn't have complex matter for one thing... But let's assume God created everything - as it is now - 6000 years ago. We would not be able to see halfway through our own galaxy.
It would be so unbelievably dull.

 

[TheReasoner]

this is based upon secular man's interpretation and limited measuring capibilities, doesn't make it true.



same as above



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Dude, C is constant. It can't speed up.
the speed of light is exactly 299,792,458 meters per second.
That means in 6000 years we could only see a short distance. 5,67E+019 meters to be exact.

I don't like maths, but I was able to do this calculation quickly. It's easy, and it goes to show you are wrong. Of course, one doesn't need to use clumsy numbers for that... Our galaxy alone is over 100 000 light years in diameter. Light years is a much easier way to explain such distances.
Why can't you just accept that? Does your entire faith hinge on your interpretation of Genesis?
If Genesis is to the letter precise, then so must Revelations be, right?
Well, that will sure make the end times interesting...

In my opinion, Archie, by sticking so firmly to your claim you are saying God has lied.
He has put in place absolute physical laws by which this universe is possible. They are beautifully precise, and the fact that they are absolute as they are makes life possible in this universe. God is saying the universe is 13.7 billion years old by his own un-breakable laws. And you are also saying that He has not only broken those rules. Most of them must have been broken completely to achieve what you claim. But that he has left hard evidence of the universe being 2,3 million times older than it actually is. Which in my book constitutes lies and deceit.
Does that sound like God to you? Does it sound like Him to fool us so dramatically?