At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[Debi1967]

Sorry. I get confused with all the name changes. It took me a moment to remember that we'd spoken before on IIDB.

My bad.

Straight_Shooter here so that you know who I am I was originally debiwebi here

 

[GenemZ]

No matter how you wish to word this the message is the same. You think Christians are superior to everyone else and should be treated as superior.

First, its our area of specialty within the realm of Christianity. An atheist can make no claim to having an equal understanding to what Christianity is to mean. Yet? You blatantly don't blink an eye when you think its your right to have your negating way of thinking accepted as equal.

Second? You come to a Christian Forum and think you are qualified to evaluate what is going on. You give us grades according to the standards of an atheist. Not good.

I find it quite amusing,,, That you come here to evaluate us and to grade us? And the tag name you choose is antagonistic to Christianity to begin with.

For when you give us a failing grade as Christians? As you often times do?

We see it as being the "mark of the Beastt."

(we Christians do have a sense of humor you know).

If you want to be treated as an equal? At least begin to comprehend what's going on here first.

You think everyone else is beneath you and you try to cover that by the empty assertion that a Christian community should always see Christians as superior.

You see Christianity as being only imaginative fantasy. We realized this long ago. Maybe what you perceive as our superiority complex is our reaction to your attitude which you distort, because you can not face the reality that Christ is real.

We see ourselves as being in a superior position of what we can know. But? Being superior on the level of mere humanity itself? No. You may be superior to me in many ways.

If that's what Christianity is all about to you, then you have no right to preach love, tolerance, justice or any of the other things you obviously hold no personal belief in.

You are receiving tolerance. In another era you would have been burned on the stake. Tolerance is not the same thing as open acceptance. If it were? It would not be tolerance.

Justice does not mean we have to agree with your ignorance when we see it. Nor, does it mean we have to apologize for telling you like it is. Love informs you of reality, even when you do not agree. For love is willing to be misunderstood, knowing that your possible acceptance of the reality you reject, is to be for your own good.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[Angel4Truth]

How can one ask for equal treatment?

When he does not have the understanding needed to be seen as an equal when it comes to what is being discussed? Yet, insists that his opinion be weighed as having equal validity?

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International Version)​

"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned." ​

​

You have only a very superficial view of Christianity. And, by insisting that you be treated as an equal in what you have to say concerning Christian concerns? Is in effect stating that you do not see Christianity having any legitimate claim to being something genuine, only imagined. ​

You are like an earthling who finds his way into a crashed spaceship. Where he finds spacemen attempting to repair their ship as to return to their planet. And, then openly insist that they are wasting their time, for there is no other life on other planets. Then? Insist that you be treated as an equal after you do. ​

Sir? We are not of this world. You don't get it. You can not. ​

Yet, you insist that we agree with your ideas as being equally valid. And that we are to consider your opinion on matters specifically directed towards Christianity as having equal validity to ours. ​

We Christians may argue over how the ship is to be repaired. And, some may (and do) have some stupid ideas on how it should be done. But, you have no right to come here and to think your opinion is equal when it comes to matters surrounding Christianity which you can not know truly exists. ​

Nor, should I walk into a physics lab and demand that what I think about their realm should be weighed as being equal. Even if I see some of the physicist being jerks and rude to me. ​

Sir, you can not be considered an equal when you are not a peer to Christianity, yet demand that your ideas about Christianity be seen as valid. Now? On the other hand... In the secular realm? In your area of expertise? And, you associate with a Christian who is involved in that sphere of knowledge? Then to be seen as an equal is a reasonable request. ​

In Christ, GeneZ​

​

Wow! What an exceptional post that speaks DIRECTLY to the real issue here.

 

[Spherical Time]

Straight_Shooter here so that you know who I am I was originally debiwebi here

Yeah, I'd just got that.

 

[seekingmyLord]

Wow! What an exceptional post that speaks DIRECTLY to the real issue here.

Ditto! and

 

[Rochir]

Afterall, witnessing to unbelievers should be our central focus.

No, it shouldn't!

 

[MartinM]

First, its our area of specialty within the realm of Christianity. An atheist can make no claim to having an equal understanding to what Christianity is to mean. Yet? You blatantly don't blink an eye when you think its your right to have your negating way of thinking accepted as equal.

By your logic, creationists should not be considered equals in C&E. And yet somehow I don't think that would be a very popular proposal - nor would I support it.

 

[intricatic]

First, its our area of specialty within the realm of Christianity. An atheist can make no claim to having an equal understanding to what Christianity is to mean. Yet? You blatantly don't blink an eye when you think its your right to have your negating way of thinking accepted as equal.

Second? You come to a Christian Forum and think you are qualified to evaluate what is going on. You give us grades according to the standards of an atheist. Not good.

I find it quite amusing,,, That you come here to evaluate us and to grade us? And the tag name you choose is antagonistic to Christianity to begin with.

For when you give us a failing grade as Christians? As you often times do?

We see it as being the "mark of the Beastt."

(we Christians do have a sense of humor you know).

If you want to be treated as an equal? At least begin to comprehend what's going on here first.




You see Christianity as being only imaginative fantasy. We realized this long ago. Maybe what you perceive as our superiority complex is our reaction to your attitude which you distort, because you can not face the reality that Christ is real.

We see ourselves as being in a superior position of what we can know. But? Being superior on the level of mere humanity itself? No. You may be superior to me in many ways.




You are receiving tolerance. In another era you would have been burned on the stake. Tolerance is not the same thing as open acceptance. If it were? It would not be tolerance.

Justice does not mean we have to agree with your ignorance when we see it. Nor, does it mean we have to apologize for telling you like it is. Love informs you of reality, even when you do not agree. For love is willing to be misunderstood, knowing that your possible acceptance of the reality you reject, is to be for your own good.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

You know, I may disagree with you on some points, but let me extend to you a hearty amen.

 

[JGG]

First, its our area of specialty within the realm of Christianity. An atheist can make no claim to having an equal understanding to what Christianity is to mean. Yet? You blatantly don't blink an eye when you think its your right to have your negating way of thinking accepted as equal.

Firstly, I dare you to find two Christians on this site who have an equal understanding, or even agreement of what Christianity is to mean.

Secondly, as I mentioned before, what how Christians view themselves, and each other does have a huge impact on how they view everyone else. As you yourself pointed out, Christians (in general) in our culture have a massive distrust of non-Christians, and even other sects of Christianity. Talking to Christians about their faith, and non-Christian faith (or non-faith) is ultimately important to us as well.

Second? You come to a Christian Forum and think you are qualified to evaluate what is going on. You give us grades according to the standards of an atheist. Not good.

Yes, yes, as an atheist I'm an immoral git, thank you, can we move on now?

If you want to be treated as an equal? At least begin to comprehend what's going on here first.

I don't want to be petty, but did you not compare the situation to an "earthling talking to aliens?"

You see Christianity as being only imaginative fantasy. We realized this long ago. Maybe what you perceive as our superiority complex is our reaction to your attitude which you distort, because you can not face the reality that Christ is real.

Yes. Obviously, that must be it.

We see ourselves as being in a superior position of what we can know. But? Being superior on the level of mere humanity itself? No. You may be superior to me in many ways.

You just claimed that atheists have a lower standard than Christians. You practically called us morally inferior.

You are receiving tolerance. In another era you would have been burned on the stake. Tolerance is not the same thing as open acceptance. If it were? It would not be tolerance.

So, the only thing keeping you from burning us at the stake is that you're tolerant, huh? That's very What Jesus Would Do.

Justice does not mean we have to agree with your ignorance when we see it. Nor, does it mean we have to apologize for telling you like it is. Love informs you of reality, even when you do not agree. For love is willing to be misunderstood, knowing that your possible acceptance of the reality you reject, is to be for your own good.

Did you mean Justice and Love there, because neither word fits in those contexts. But it seems to me that you're kind of saying that you don't burn us at the stake because we might still convert. Again, very kind of you sir, but I don't see it happening, so you might as well start pouring the lighter fluid.

 

[joebudda]

Intolerance is evil.

And some Christians with editing power telling other Christians what is Christian and then taking their cross away which they identify with is intolerance and dehumanizing.

Every Christian picks and chooses what the bible says to support their own position. So enforcing the popular groups picking and choosing as more valid then the other I find hypocritical, intolerant, and just the "in group" pushing further away the "out group".

All of this intolerance seems to go against what Christians say to be Christian means.

But from my godless perspective it is just us humans grouping others as "less then" in some way so we can look down or feel sorry for those in the "out group". This is one method we humans use to "feel" better about ourselves.

 

[GenemZ]

By your logic, creationists should not be considered equals in C&E. And yet somehow I don't think that would be a very popular proposal - nor would I support it.

When you say "creationists?" Of whom do you speak?

TOE's see Creationists usually only in one light. They do not realize that there are Creationists who have Scriptural evidence to explain that the earth is very old, and that there have been multiple creations before this one. That ancient fossils can be easily explained with Scripture. And, no. The fossils were not formed at the time of Noah.

The only Creationists the TOE's like to concentrate on are the Young Earth Creationists. For, their facts can be easily dislodged and thrown out. Ironically, both are functioning on the opposite poles of the same stick. One of not having the needed data be knowing what truly happened.

But, let's save this one for another thread where it belongs.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[CaDan]

Well I am stunned (not surprised but stunned)

I thought it might take a few more months before people started to cry for a name change of the Site. It was inevitable as soon as we start to offer some room for accommodation of those not part of our faith (in the broadest possible interpretation) then those outside of our faith want to have more access and more influence and finally want to take control and remove all vestiges of anything remotely Christian at all.

Erwin why don't you either make a stand for Christ or throw in the towel and let someone that is prepared to stand in your place do it instead.

Either we are the Christian website I thought I joined and support with all my strength or we are some limp inclusive forum of opinions debating and arguing ourselves into oblivion.

It is time to make a decision. The current one IS NOT WORKING!

Pete56

Oh, come on!

I am really, really tired of the hyperbole from both sides of the aisle here.

There is no atheist takeover.

There are no concentration camps.

Haul your heads back to reality-land, people. You all sound like lunatics.

 

[intricatic]

Intolerance is evil.

And some Christians with editing power telling other Christians what is Christian and then taking their cross away which they identify with is intolerance and dehumanizing.

Every Christian picks and chooses what the bible says to support their own position. So enforcing the popular groups picking and choosing as more valid then the other I find hypocritical, intolerant, and just the "in group" pushing further away the "out group".

All of this intolerance seems to go against what Christians say to be Christian means.

But from my godless perspective it is just us humans grouping others as "less then" in some way so we can look down or feel sorry for those in the "out group". This is one method we humans use to "feel" better about ourselves.

Well that's a very closed-minded perspective. Are you saying all Christians ignore some scripture when formulating doctrine in order to prop up their own agenda? Isn't that kind of antagonistic of what Christianity claims to be, and wouldn't that very claim cut to the root of this idea that intolerance is evil?

Is it evil not to tolerate murders, rapists, or cults that seek the destruction of their members? Or do they have exception to the rule?

 

[Lisa0315]

Firstly, I dare you to find two Christians on this site who have an equal understanding, or even agreement of what Christianity is to mean.

I don't know. I think the Conservative Christians have alot of agreement between us. It is one of the few places of harmony I have seen here.

Lisa

 

[intricatic]

Oh, come on!

I am really, really tired of the hyperbole from both sides of the aisle here.

There is no atheist takeover.

There are no concentration camps.

Haul your heads back to reality-land, people. You all sound like lunatics.

Thank you CaDan! I'm a loonatic actually.

 

[joebudda]

Well that's a very closed-minded perspective. Are you saying all Christians ignore some scripture when formulating doctrine in order to prop up their own agenda? Isn't that kind of antagonistic of what Christianity claims to be, and wouldn't that very claim cut to the root of this idea that intolerance is evil?

Is it evil not to tolerate murders, rapists, or cults that seek the destruction of their members? Or do they have exception to the rule?

Is it evil to stone someone to death who collects sticks on the sabbath or a disobedient child?

 

[JGG]

I don't know. I think the Conservative Christians have alot of agreement between us. It is one of the few places of harmony I have seen here.

Lisa

Have you met Gipper yet?

 

[Letalis]

Oh, come on!

I am really, really tired of the hyperbole from both sides of the aisle here.

There is no atheist takeover.

There are no concentration camps.

Haul your heads back to reality-land, people. You all sound like lunatics.

Get back to your ghetto.

 

[intricatic]

Is it evil to stone someone to death who collects sticks on the sabbath?

Yes, because it goes against what the sabbath was instituted for. Why? Are you saying it's okay to be intollerant of people who stone other people for breaking the Sabbath?

 

[MartinM]

Did you mean Justice and Love there, because neither word fits in those contexts.

Rather depends on how one views such concepts.