At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[Mrs.Sidhe]

tropical winds all option 2 does in my eyes is bring the focus back on God and then outreach as a secondary option to those that wish to engage in outreach...

Option 1 however open this site up for a name change because it would then be more secular

You live in a secular world. You are posting for the most part on a secular internet. By posting on this site you are doing something secular. Get over it. Again..CF is a website. NOT CHURCH.

 

[intricatic]

You live in a secular world. You are posting for the post part on a secular internet. By posting on this site you are doing something secular. Get over it. Again..CF is a website. NOT CHURCH.

CF is a ministry. I'd take that up with it's webmaster.

 

[Ringo84]

My view:

I like having the site as it is now, and I *LOVE* being in some of the forums that were previously restricted to non-Christians. I also live the ability to mix and mingle with people who were previously only in the Christians Only section. I would be devestated if this site fell back into the unspoken "us" vs "them" of Christian-only and "everybody else" section.

The things I think need to be changed:

The member-editing Wiki has to go. Members are no longer accountable to the mod staff, they're accountable to other members. On too many forums are there members who ask others to leave threads or tell them they don't belong, who have gone and changed the Wiki to give them the authority to chuck people. As a result, some wiki's change almost daily, and it's impossible to keep up. Some mods have even given up on modding based on the new rules; they don't post links or screenshots of the wikis on the forum, and moderate based off of the old rules.

The wiki is a great idea, but should only be edited by mods, where members discuss and vote on changes...

But this site, nice and open so everybody can discuss and mingle... That needs to stay. I've learned more about Christianity here with everything opened up than I had before when it was divided.

I don't know so much if the name should change... I think probably not... But I think the motto should.

Yeah, and I agree that it should be open. It's ridiculous that just because of the name of the forum we would seek to restrict people from certain areas because they disagree with us on certain points. That's not a very Christian thing to do, and it isn't fair.

I don't think the forum name should be changed, but I think that CF's new openness is a positive thing that ought to be preserved.
Ringo

 

[Davidnic]

You live in a secular world. You are posting for the post part on a secular internet. By posting on this site you are doing something secular. Get over it. Again..CF is a website. NOT CHURCH.

The point is not that secular is bad. But the name of the site should reflect it's primary focus.

The poll itself says:

secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians


If the direct order from Christ is a "secondary" vision then the site is not honest in calling itself Christian forums.

To me it is that simple. The site is possibly changing and everyone needs to know where they stand and where CF stands.

If the Great Commission is a secondary concern, then the name should be changed. If it is a primary concern then the site should be set up following that ideal.

 

[Debi1967]

I've never seen a statement from CF.

Then I guess you didn't see it, I did

Yes.

Well thank you for admitting you know how much something costs. now do you really think that site supporters cover all those expenses? Do they on your board?

I was under the impression that Erwin does most of the technical work himself.

This is an inaccurate impression ....

I personally couldn't care less if he has a few bucks left over at the end of the month. He runs the largest Christian website, after all. But you'll still notice that a secular corporation still runs CF.

It already has secular governance.

That secular governance is in charge of the monies, and makes Dr Loh accountable for all the money coming from site supporters

What exactly do you think my accusation is? I think it's that you can't deny that CF's top level of governance is secular.

Erwin had removed himself before and had left that to Alpha and now it is being left to the members

Yes, Erwin uses it as a psuedo-ministry, but it is secularly run.

please don't use th psuedo or I can say that IIDB is used as psuedo Atheistic board

He's not a pastor, and he's not a priest, and he's certainly never claimed to be either.

No it was the point ... We are effectively a congregation and Erwin is a leader so if he is being paid to lead so what????

 

[Debi1967]

The point is not that secular is bad. But the name of the site should reflect it's primary focus.

The poll itself says:

secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians


If the direct order from Christ is a "secondary" vision then the site is not honest in calling itself Christian forums.

To me itis that simple. The site is possible changing and everyone needs to know where they stand and where CF stands.

If the Great Commission is a secondary concern, then the name should be changed. If it is a primary concern then the site should be set up following that ideal.

Our First Commission is to be Christians ourselves and to learn about our own Christianity .... In order for us to be able to evangelize to others we much first be strong Christians ourselves .... This should go without saying

 

[sparklecat]

I'm irritated, frustrated, exhausted, done with being patient and nice and respectful only to be treated like absolute crap, tired of constantly arguing with people over every single idiotic post, and just looking for a simple answer to a simple question about what these steps mean to the direction of the forum.

At present, no such answer has been given, I'm afraid.

 

[pete56]

Well I am stunned (not surprised but stunned)

I thought it might take a few more months before people started to cry for a name change of the Site. It was inevitable as soon as we start to offer some room for accommodation of those not part of our faith (in the broadest possible interpretation) then those outside of our faith want to have more access and more influence and finally want to take control and remove all vestiges of anything remotely Christian at all.

Erwin why don't you either make a stand for Christ or throw in the towel and let someone that is prepared to stand in your place do it instead.

Either we are the Christian website I thought I joined and support with all my strength or we are some limp inclusive forum of opinions debating and arguing ourselves into oblivion.

It is time to make a decision. The current one IS NOT WORKING!

Pete56

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

The point is not that secular is bad. But the name of the site should reflect it's primary focus.

The poll itself says:

secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians


If the direct order from Christ is a "secondary" vision then the site is not honest in calling itself Christian forums.

To me itis that simple. The site is possible changing and everyone needs to know where they stand and where CF stands.

If the Great Commission is a secondary concern, then the name should be changed. If it is a primary concern then the site should be set up following that ideal.

I'm sorry but the point is this new vision hasn't even been given a chance to work and people already want to attack it and want to go back to the old way of doing things. If you want that, then start your own site or go to P_G's site.

In the New Vision of CF Christians CAN outreach. The Great Commision isn't hurt by the New Vision. Its only "hurt" if people get caught up in the fact that *gasp* Non-Christians have to treated with respect and not like second class people.

 

[dignitized]

why are people telling Erwin to quit his own site?

 

[Debi1967]

At this time may I also say we are trying to work out a third option for Erwin

http://www.christianforums.com/t5794084-what-would-option-3-look-like.html

This option in my own opinion should contain both the new and the old together .... what was the best of the old and the best of the new ......

 

[intricatic]

Well I am stunned (not surprised but stunned)

I thought it might take a few more months before people started to cry for a name change of the Site. It was inevitable as soon as we start to offer some room for accommodation of those not part of our faith (in the broadest possible interpretation) then those outside of our faith want to have more access and more influence and finally want to take control and remove all vestiges of anything remotely Christian at all.

Erwin why don't you either make a stand for Christ or throw in the towel and let someone that is prepared to stand in your place do it instead.

Either we are the Christian website I thought I joined and support with all my strength or we are some limp inclusive forum of opinions debating and arguing ourselves into oblivion.

It is time to make a decision. The current one IS NOT WORKING!

Pete56

Well, you know there's another site out there that offers a true vision of Christian ministry.

 

[Debi1967]

why are people telling Erwin to quit his own site?

Where, seriously PF where did someone say that

 

[seekingmyLord]

why are people telling Erwin to quit his own site?

Why did he ask...?

 

[Davidnic]

I'm sorry but the point is this new vision hasn't even been given a chance to work and people already want to attack it and want to go back to the old way of doing things. If you want that, then start your own site or go to P_G's little fascist funhouse.

In the New Vision of CF Christians CAN outreach. The Great Commision isn't hurt by the New Vision. Its only "hurt" if people get caught up in the fact that *gasp* Non-Christians have to treated with respect and not like second class people.

Well, if you can not make your point without calling others fascist and resporting with bile then I would seriously advise you to rethink how you argue for a point.

The issue is not that Non-Christians are treated with respect. I have no probelm with non-Christians posting in all the areas and such.

Don't assume you know my point when you phrase it, not with my words but with your own version of what you would like to think I mean.

Stop jumping to conclusions.

One of the poblems with the new way is that it has been:

"Everyone have an opinion as long as it is you love the changes. If not you are the problem."

If that was not the attitude and the changes were not attempted all at once so quickly...there would be much less venom on both sides.

If you want my full thoughts (from over two weeks ago):

I don't think this new way will work. But if you even want a chance...My thoughts:

* Close CF for a week or more. Let everyone calm down and focus.

* When it opens, only open the rule sections

* Vote. Coded to 500 post or more being the min to prevent socks

* This takes as long as it does

* We have 195,579 members, if 200 or more members have not participated in the rule making it does not count. (Make that more if you want, the more the better)

* After the dust clears if it is a site you can live with stay. If not go with no ill will.

And make the site support forums readable by general membership. If you want openess then make sure $$ does not make a bigger voice.
Also, as part of the intended role of Christians united in the vision of the forum and do we want Apologetics as part of the site (I say we do):


Is this a Christian Forum with non-Christian members? And is part of the purpose as far as that goes to bring Christ to them?


My simple question is honestly...is this a Christian site and what does the owner envision as far as the great Great Commission in relation to the interaction of Christian and non-Christian members.

I think both sides deserve a direct answer on that. And I think that answer will matter in how lasting the rules are and let everyone know if this is a place they want to be.

Basically does CF exist, in part to spread the message of Christ to non-Christians? And to What degree?

That really impacts the rules.

 

[Spherical Time]

Then I guess you didn't see it, I did

Can you link to it?

Well thank you for admitting you know how much something costs. now do you really think that site supporters cover all those expenses? Do they on your board?

Uh, yes, they did cover expenses on "my" board, actually. Or at least they did last year. We'll have to see how it goes this year.

And, according to Erwin, the SS and google ads did cover the expenses of CF for the last year or so.

This is an inaccurate impression ....

I'm sorry then. How many technicians does Erwin have on the Loh Enterprises Pty Ltd staff? Does he require them to all be Christians?

That secular governance is in charge of the monies, and makes Dr Loh accountable for all the money coming from site supporters

Erwin had removed himself before and had left that to Alpha and now it is being left to the members

The corporation controls the site, not the other way around.

please don't use th psuedo or I can say that IIDB is used as psuedo Atheistic board

You can call it whatever you want. However, CF isn't a real ministry.

No it was the point ... We are effectively a congregation and Erwin is a leader so if he is being paid to lead so what????

Aren't you Catholic? Are you claiming that you've promoted him to the level of your priest?

Has he ever actually accepted that position?

 

[Debi1967]

Well, if you can not make your point without calling others fascist and resporting with bile then I would seriously advise you to rethink how you argue for a point.

The issue is not that Non-Christians are treated with respect. I have no probelm with non-Christians posting in all the areas and such.

Don't assume you know my point when you phrase it, not with my words but with your own version of what you would like to think I mean.

Stop jumping to conclusions.

One of the poblems with the new way is that it has been:

"Everyone have an opinion as long as it is you love the changes. If not you are the problem."

If that was not the attitude and the changes were not attempted all at once so quickly...there would be much less venom on both sides.

Please do not read your own problems and issues into my posts.

Davide

 

[intricatic]

Can you link to it?

Uh, yes, they did cover expenses on "my" board, actually. Or at least they did last year. We'll have to see how it goes this year.

Do you know how many servers Erwin has running this site?

 

[intricatic]

I'd like to hear an answer from Erwin at some point in the near future; Is CF supposed to be a ministry, or is it just a message board with no ministerial intents? That would make me very happy.

 

[Debi1967]

Can you link to it?

Uh, yes, they did cover expenses on "my" board, actually. Or at least they did last year. We'll have to see how it goes this year.

And, according to Erwin, the SS and google ads did cover the expenses of CF for the last year or so.

I'm sorry then. How many technicians does Erwin have on the Loh Enterprises Pty Ltd staff? Does he require them to all be Christians?

The corporation controls the site, not the other way around.

You can call it whatever you want. However, CF isn't a real ministry.

Aren't you Catholic? Are you claiming that you've promoted him to the level of your priest?

Has he ever actually accepted that position?

Aren't you Catholic? Are you claiming that you've promoted him to the level of your priest?

Has he ever actually accept that position?

There is a difference between what is called an ecclesial leader and a Priest and I did no such thing

I am not going to further argue with you spherical because it is getting us nowhere you are going to believe as you want.

Besides it will only create hard feeling between us and I valued our friendship and still do.