Birth Control

[Dannager]

I must have missed the portion of my education that expounded on the use of sighing in place of an actual rebuttal.

 

[rainbowbright]

I'm tired of rebuttal because I am constantly getting attacked for what I stand up for, so that is my answer and it's not worth arguing and stop being so rude

 

[Dannager]

I'm tired of rebuttal because I am constantly getting attacked for what I stand up for,

And you think that quoting an argument that you disagree with and tossing a sighing smiley face onto the end of it is going to make you immune to that? We know you disagree with it. In fact, we're reminded of it every time we see one of those smiley faces you tack on. It's rude to us for you to discard well thought-out arguments with a sigh so publicly visible.

so that is my answer and it's not worth arguing and stop being so rude

You stop being rude. If you want to participate in a debate and discussion thread you either debate or you discuss. You do not quote arguments and respond with a sigh as though that were somehow acceptable in any fashion. Have some courtesy towards those concerned enough about your viewpoint to spend time challenging it, or please do not participate at all. Sighs add nothing to the conversation.

When you're ready to participate in a fashion that is respectful, you are free to continue discussing this topic.

 

[rainbowbright]

you're doing it again!!! you want an explanation, fine then you send me a private message, it's no longer worth my time. I wasn't responding to any of your posts in the first place and it was a sign of dismay, you are constantly putting words in my mouth that were not there in the first place.Why are you so offended by a face? And when did I tack a smiley face on something?
I really hope this thread gets closed it's no longer a discussion on birth control and is completely pointless.

 

[SallyNow]

Though I was out of church during my marriage, what would it have thought about me and my husband abstaining? He had aids.
I didn't use birth control, and in fact, we tried 8 months to conceive.
(we did, and I am fine. don't try this at home or anywhere)

The truth is that this a real, total rarity. Millions of children in Africa and Asia are dying or are without parents because of this sort of behaviour.

What happened to you was another fluke. A blessed one, yes, but a fluke nonetheless.

How long has birth control been around anyway?
Didn't women improvise in the "old days"?

Yup. For thousands of years men and women have been coming up with different contraception techniques. And, yes, that includes Biblical times...

I think that problem is that people bring up flukes in their lives, and then try to say that those one-in-a-million flukes are somehow universal truths, when in fact they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

(HowardDean, I realize you are not doing that, BTW, but you just had a good example of a lucky fluke)

 

[icedtea]

You are dismissing the miracle working power of God?
What happened to me was NOT a fluke, it was a miracle from God.

 

[SallyNow]

You are dismissing the miracle working power of God?
What happened to me was NOT a fluke, it was a miracle from God.

Sorry, I should have clarified: a statistcal fluke, as in, very rare. That's why I say "blessed fluke".

The truth remains that millions of people are suffering... children included, devoted Christians included... because they have been given AIDS by someone through sexual intercourse... often even marital intercourse. All over Asia and Africa is an epidemic.

We can not let statistical flukes (or miracles, if you perfer) cloud our judgement on a bigger scale.

If one person is saved from the open sea, without a life jacket, because of some miracle, that's great. But most people will die if they fall into the open sea without a lifejacket and liferaft. Yet, I doubt that we will want to stop having liferafts on ships anytime soon...

 

[icedtea]

Agreed. No one should ever have unprotected sex with someone they don't know the results of for 6 months.

My point, however, was I hated kids, but once I fell in love and got married, I risked my life because I wanted his child.
Thats a normal response.

 

[Dannager]

you're doing it again!!! you want an explanation, fine then you send me a private message, it's no longer worth my time.

No, I don't want an explanation. I made what I want clear in my last post. Be respectful or don't participate. This is for debate and discussion, and you are doing neither.

I wasn't responding to any of your posts in the first place and it was a sign of dismay,

Your "signs of dismay" do not need to be shared if that's all you're going to be doing.

you are constantly putting words in my mouth that were not there in the first place.

Such as what?

Why are you so offended by a face? And when did I tack a smiley face on something?

Posts #239 and #240. And I'm not offended by a face. I'm offended by the fact that you only posted a face. You aren't participating beyond disparaging sigh-smileys. Please be respectful.

I really hope this thread gets closed it's no longer a discussion on birth control and is completely pointless.

What are you talking about? The posts just before and just after yours deal with birth control.

 

[Nadiine]

why don't MEN just get vasectomies if they don't want kids or more kids?
i see nothing wrong with that

 

[TwinCrier]

Even if the bible flat out and boldly stated "Contraception is a sin" the pro-contraception crowd would argue that it refers to the method of the time and modern day contraception is okay because it's safer or better. With this as with any other sin, unless God convicts the sinner to repentance, it will not happen. I personally believe that the decision to use contraception by a Christian is given little if any prayer. The world is demanding small families, and the world is getting what it wants.

 

[tulc]

why don't MEN just get vasectomies if they don't want kids or more kids?

Did that very thing when we as a couple decided we didn't want any more.
tulc(just drinking a great cup of coffee!)

 

[Lotar]

Why are people impressed that Jay Leno owns 20 motorcycles, but disgusted that some religious families choose to have 10 children?
Let's not finesse the response. We all know why. A world that has lost its innocence has trouble appreciating beings who are innocent. A world that has become selfish has soured to the idea of leading a life of selflessness. A world that has become grossly materialistic is turned off to the idea of more dependents who consume resources. And a world that mistakenly believes that freedom means a lack of responsibility is opposed to the idea of needy creatures who "tie you down."

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49074

 

[Lotar]

"n truth, all men know that they who are under the power of this disease [the sin of covetousness] are wearied even of their father’s old age [wishing him to die so they can inherit]; and that which is sweet, and universally desirable, the having of children, they esteem grievous and unwelcome. Many at least with this view have even paid money to be childless, and have mutilated nature, not only killing the newborn, but even acting to prevent their beginning to live"
-St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on Matthew 28:5 [A.D. 391]

 

[Lotar]

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522)

 

[tulc]

uhmm posts #253,254, 255 while interesting aren't commands from God.
tulc(but thanks for posting them!)

 

[WalkingforHim]

"Who is he who cannot warn that no woman may take a potion so that she is unable to conceive or condemns in herself the nature which God willed to be fecund? As often as she could have conceived or given birth, of that many homicides she will be held guilty, and, unless she undergoes suitable penance, she will be damned by eternal death in hell. If a woman does not wish to have children, let her enter into a religious agreement with her husband; for chastity is the sole sterility of a Christian woman." Caesarius of Arles, Sermons 1:12 (A.D. 522)

This is sexist and backwards.

We've left the dark ages, perhaps it's finally time we acted like it.

 

[Lumen]

Even if the bible flat out and boldly stated "Contraception is a sin" the pro-contraception crowd would argue that it refers to the method of the time and modern day contraception is okay because it's safer or better. With this as with any other sin, unless God convicts the sinner to repentance, it will not happen. I personally believe that the decision to use contraception by a Christian is given little if any prayer. The world is demanding small families, and the world is getting what it wants.

If the bible flat out stated "contraception is wrong", I wouldn't be argueing that it wasn't.

But the bible doesn't say that, and doesn't even hint at it.

 

[Lotar]

If the bible flat out stated "contraception is wrong", I wouldn't be argueing that it wasn't.

But the bible doesn't say that, and doesn't even hint at it.

It does, you just don't acknowledge it.

For 1900+ years all Christians believed that this is what the Bible said, and so did the Jews.


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You guys might as well be honest with yourselves: It is inconvenient, expensive and time consuming to have children, and you would rather have the time and money to yourself. It doesn't matter what the Bible says, because to you, the only things the Bible says is sin are the things that don't inconvenience you to greatly.

 

[praying]

It does, you just don't acknowledge it.

Where does it state that?

For 1900+ years all Christians believed that this is what the Bible said, and so did the Jews.

For just about the same amount of time Christians also believed slavery was okay, so what does that mean.