Gothic // Sub-Culture - Views Please

sister_maynard

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Is your teenager a member of an ancient Germanic tribe originating in Scandanavia?
Does he or she sacrifice captives to the god of war?
Do they insist on spending time alone in the 3rd and 4th centuries?
Do they always manage to find time to sack ancient European cities?
If any of these apply to your son or daughter then you really should be worried. ;)
peace

How is it possible for you to make two posts that I want to rep in one thread when I still need to spread it? I love this list. Do I have permission to borrow it for the next time this comes up on another forum?

So, every adolescent in America is goth.....who knew?!?! ;)

I honestly think that someone did this as a spoof or a joke or whatever. Sure, some of the stuff sounds like things that fundies would say, but others, not so much. I've been exposed to plenty of fundie 'literature' in my time, and this just doesn't sound like it to me.
I think the cereal part really points in that direction: some of them sound like straight-up fundie nonsense, but the cereal is too silly to be serious.

And I must wonder..."Expresses an interest in sex."
Apparently, the parents themselves are goth, being that they are responsible for the creation of the child in question, lol ;)
I've actually run into a few people online who think that you shouldn't express any interest in sex until your wedding night. The idea is a bit unnerving: sex drives don't come with an on/off switch.
 
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Ramona

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I've actually run into a few people online who think that you shouldn't express any interest in sex until your wedding night. The idea is a bit unnerving: sex drives don't come with an on/off switch.

LOL, I completely agree. I find it really strange how some fundamentalists think that they can go from never having kissed their spouse until the minister grants them permission to full-out sexytime on their wedding night.

:scratch: Golly gee willikers, Batman! It's just baffling.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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Hey. I'm gay and like D&D. You'd be surprised how many of us there are out there.

Eudaimonist said:
True, I personally am straight, but when I was in college two very good friends of mine who I played D&D and other RPGs with happened to be a gay couple.

I stand corrected. :)

sister_maynard said:
How is it possible for you to make two posts that I want to rep in one thread when I still need to spread it? I love this list. Do I have permission to borrow it for the next time this comes up on another forum?

Thank you. And feel free to use it. :)

peace
 
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Verv

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Honestly, I have no idea, as I've never seen statistics on the subject. Not in my experience, certainly. However, I think it is worth noting that correlation does not imply causation.

I have seen it clearly in my experience. Of the three people in my life that I have known who committed suicide, two of them have been goths and heavily into that subculture. Of course, I am no representative but that carries a lot of weight with me.


This link deals with Goth kids being linked to suicide.

"GLASGOW, Scotland, April 14 - The rate of suicide attempts and self-mutilation-is high among those in the Goth youth subculture, researchers here reported.

More than half of 19-year-olds who self-identified as Goth reported self-harming behavior, and nearly half reported a suicide attempt, said Robert Young, a research associate at the University of Glasgow.

But whether participation in Goth culture leads to self-destructive behavior or whether adolescents with those tendencies gravitate to Goth is not clear, Young and colleagues said online today in BMJ, formerly the British Medical Journal. "
 
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I have seen it clearly in my experience. Of the three people in my life that I have known who committed suicide, two of them have been goths and heavily into that subculture. Of course, I am no representative but that carries a lot of weight with me.


This link deals with Goth kids being linked to suicide.

"GLASGOW, Scotland, April 14 - The rate of suicide attempts and self-mutilation-is high among those in the Goth youth subculture, researchers here reported.

More than half of 19-year-olds who self-identified as Goth reported self-harming behavior, and nearly half reported a suicide attempt, said Robert Young, a research associate at the University of Glasgow.

But whether participation in Goth culture leads to self-destructive behavior or whether adolescents with those tendencies gravitate to Goth is not clear, Young and colleagues said online today in BMJ, formerly the British Medical Journal. "
As opposed to how many other teenagers who were NOT goths who comitted suicide?

Self-injury and suicide are part of teenage life in the modern first world countries. Its something that crosses ALL boundaries. From the high school football quarterback to the art geek president of the chess club.
 
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Argent

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I have never considered myself goth or any other type of label.

I'm not going to go through the whole list in the OP because it's ridiculous, I will just post my experiences.

Then:
I spent my whole childhood in therapy including some mental hospitals.

Although I was in honors classes in school I ended up getting suspended constantly mostly for fighting or other forms of acting up. I also skipped school a lot, and as a result I spent a few days locked up in juvenile detention and had to do community service, boot camp and probation. I was allowed to drop out of high school right after I turned 16 and get my GED.

I had a lot of depression and anxiety throughout my teens. I did a fair amount of drugs and drinking and started smoking, basically anything I could get my hands on. I used to also cut myself. Of course I liked/like sex too.

The music that I really got into was Marilyn Manson, Nine Inch Nails, them and other music I've found I like since. Music helped me through the tough, and even not so tough times.

I did used to dress in all black, band shirts, make up and some cross-dressing. Some of that got me suspended from school too. I had long dyed black hair (see profile pic) and also spent some time with a shaved head and spiked hair.

I did used to wear anti-christian clothes and jewelry.

I hung out with people who influenced me badly, I was also a bad influence.

I was a little curious about satanism and the occult, but mostly curious about death, especially suicide, anything dark or depressing, and drugs.

I did, and still do spend a lot of time alone. I did, and still do block out the sunlight in from my windows. I used to have really messed sleeping patterns.


Now:
I still like Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails, but my music collection is more diverse now. My favorite genre is industrial, but I like some music in genres like idm, goth rock, ambient, some various forms of metal, and others.

I dress somewhat "normal" now, not all black, no cross-dressing or make up, and at the moment only have two band shirts. My hair is also very plain a short.

I haven't been in therapy or on meds for awhile, and it's been almost 4 years since I last cut myself. I also don't get in fights anymore.

I've quit smoking and hardly ever drink or do drugs.

Now I go to my local community college and enjoy it.



After reading this some may think I'm depraved or insane. I honestly think I would've ended up much worse off if I didn't have the music, friends, family and other things I had back then.
I do not regret nor feel ashamed of my past, it's made me who I am today.

The fact that I was and still feel like an outcast continuously makes me examine what kind of person I am and would like to be, and how I treat and think I should treat others.

All of this has shaped who I am, and no amount of someone judging me will change that.

The whole list in the OP may be a joke or may actually be serious (I know there are people out there who think like that). Either way I'm all for helping kids out, but being hysterical and saying things about satan and depravity seems counterproductive. I think it'd be better that instead of being paranoid parents would talk to their kids in a calm and respectful manner, listen to their kids, and be logical in the decisions they make...not trying to get their kids to change by forcing religion on them (a move that will likely backfire).

People should try not to judge others based appearances and what music they listen to. I know we all judge others based on appearances, and are sometimes right about a person when we do, but when it's to the point of assuming all sorts of things about that person without really talking to and understanding them then it's a problem.


That's it, sorry for the length of the post. :sorry: :D
Thanks for telling us your story.

That last bit of advice is very good.
 
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wanderingone

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As someone who is Straight edge, just to clarify the vegetarianism came in after the foundations, it is possible to be straight edge without being a vegan or vegetarian..

Source (song): Straight edge by Minor Threat

Wandering One
::: wanders off thinking now I'll be singing "I'm a person just like you, but I've got better things to do...." to myself all afternoon in staff meeting::::
 
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Jetgirl

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If you are a person who agree's with the list, from my point, you are being very cruel to other humans, simply because they are a little different to you. It does not mean that you can label people in such a way. Being this age, attending school, and going out with friends every now and then, i know what its like to be abused in the street for the way i look, so why do i carry on?

Yuck. That was a silly bulletin. I hate that person immediatly for the unforgivable error of atrociously mangling the English language in referring to someone as "a gothic."
 
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sister_maynard

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Yuck. That was a silly bulletin. I hate that person immediatly for the unforgivable error of atrociously mangling the English language in referring to someone as "a gothic."
I know. People who try to make adjectives into nouns make my eyeballs twitch in pain.
 
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sister_maynard

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I see alot of teenage "goths" but not to many middle aged "goths". That right there tells me all I need to know about it.
Yeah- it's easy to maintain as a trend when you want to look cool about sulking, but it's not going to lead you on some sort of "lifelong path of devil worship."
 
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theeyesoftammyfaye

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blah. "goths" are harmless. they're no different from any other youths/adolescents/teenagers/etc. in that they all generally try to conform to the "cool standards" of their particular clique. i wouldn't say they were more mischevious or "satanic" even, or, conversely, more outgoing and nice than any of their peers.

there's hot topic and mail order catalogues for "goth looks" just like there is the wet seal and forever 21 for the "girly girl teenage" looks. some people grow out of it, and some people don't - we all know the 30 year olds who still shop at hot topic, and the 30 year olds who still shop at wet seal. the end.
 
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sister_maynard

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blah. "goths" are harmless. they're no different from any other youths/adolescents/teenagers/etc. in that they all generally try to conform to the "cool standards" of their particular clique.

"I'm an emo kid, nonconforming as can be
You'd be nonconforming too if you looked just like me..."
I love that song. I'd link to the lyrics, but I'm pretty sure that there's some swearing in there somwhere. Search for "Emo Kid" on Youtube and the first few results should have it.
 
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Eudaimonist

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I see alot of teenage "goths" but not to many middle aged "goths". That right there tells me all I need to know about it.

"Middle-aged" (20s and 30s) goths do exist. I know a few.

Sweden has a very age-ist culture (most people feel strongly compelled by "society" to dress like others in their age-bracket), and so many young goths get pressured by the need to be accepted by others as "adult" into giving up their lifestyle, but this is a shame. They often feel compelled to have joyless and unimaginative lives trapped inside the expections of society. The lucky ones are the goths who stay goth into their 20s and 30s -- they seem to be much happier.

Just become some activities are given up in adulthood doesn't mean they are inherently adolescent or childish. Social pressure may count for a lot.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
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