Matt Crouch

[HisBelovedMelody]

Nothing wrong with being rich. If you decieve people to get your money, huge problem.

WHERE IS YOUR PROOF!?!?!

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Actually they do not need to tone down anything the Gospel is the Gospel its truth and life to those who are perishing and you just have to give it to them as it is!! oohh and guess what i live in the middle east we have TBN in Arabic and alot of people are coming to christ as a result!! huray!!! so yeah people can go on arguing and debating about the BENTLEY but my question to them is, when was the last tym you led some one to christ? and when was the last tym you fed a hungry child and didnt BRAG about it, u knw its usually the ppl who dont give who make alot of noise about where the money in some one else's charity organisation is goin!! so yeah please.... please give the CROUCH FAMILY a break! they diserve to own planes for all i care they've done more for the kingdom of God in the past few months more than most of us will ever do in a life time!!!

amen, that's great.

 

[BenAdam]

WHERE IS YOUR PROOF!?!?!

You need proof to believe that if you get rich off of decieving people you are in trouble?

 

[TheGloryisHere]

Yeah, I mean, gee..how could you get a *snort...rocket to fly?? It is TOO heavy!! NO way could that happen!

the earth shaking when it took off was just Hollywood's humungous sound system!!!

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

You need proof to believe that if you get rich off of decieving people you are in trouble?

NO! BUT you are throwing accusations around...and when asked for proof..you have none. SO it must be easier to be a tale bearer than a truth bearer!

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

the earth shaking when it took off was just Hollywood's humungous sound system!!!

LOL, that is true!! I mean..come on..there is no proof...apparently. and the 6 million + Jews that died?? RAPTURE! those bones in the mass graves are just plastic....fake..ya know??!!!

 

[BenAdam]

NO! BUT you are throwing accusations around...and when asked for proof..you have none. SO it must be easier to be a tale bearer than a truth bearer!

I'm not throwing any accusation around, I'm simply making a statement of fact, if you get rich through deciet, well the time will come to pay the piper.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I'm not throwing any accusation around, I'm simply making a statement of fact, if you get rich through deciet, well the time will come to pay the piper.

"rich through deciet"...PROVE that to me please....I want DOCUMENTED proof that is what is happening. UNTIL then, I will do as the Bible says and think the best of people instead of thinking the worst! Thank you BA. I am DONE with this stupid conversation.

 

[BenAdam]

"rich through deciet"...PROVE that to me please....I want DOCUMENTED proof that is what is happening. UNTIL then, I will do as the Bible says and think the best of people instead of thinking the worst! Thank you BA. I am DONE with this stupid conversation.

I didn't say anyone was doing that, I simply pointed out that there is nothing wrong with being rich unless it comes through deciet. It also isn't ok if it comes through other illicit means.

 

[Andry]

I think you're way off base. It's not about having enough money to buy a fancy car. The question is: should you? Is there any reason for a Christian - who is supposed to live a modest life - to own a vehicle that costs even $100,000...much less $240,000? I mean, how can you even defend such an extravagant lifestyle? Where does Mr. Crouch get his money? From people who are giving money to TBN with the notion that their funds are going to help send missionaries to foreign countries? Or, are people sending money to TBN so that Paul can give some to his son...so his son can buy him another fast car...cause God is just oh so good? Why can't he be content with what he has? The money could be spent on other things that minister to other people who may be having a hard time. Ever thought of that? The apostle Paul bent over backwards not to place a burden on the shoulders of his people by not asking for monetary pleasures ... although he could have used his authority to do such. He knew how to be content. What? Matthew isn't content with 8 vehicles? He needs another one that costs $240,000? C'mon man. You can't honestly tell me that you don't see a problem here.

Yours truly in Christ,
sojourner

I've been vacillating whether to respond to your post here publicy or via PM, since discretion (mine) is in order. But since up until now we haven't interacted, I'll keep this post intentionally brief, and I'd be happy to discuss further via PM.

I can't speak for Mr. Crouch, since I don't know him personally. And while by most people's standards my family live a modest yet comfortable lifestyle, it's far from extravagant. However, in my professional life I raise capital. Lots of it.

So to answer your one question here, "Is there any reason for a Christian - who is supposed to live a modest life - to own a vehicle that costs even $100,000...much less $240,000?" tell me: what car would you recommend that I should be driving/owning, when I meet with bankers, financiers, and investors on the golf course who are about to fork over a sum with many zeroes?

Last week I met one of them in their MB S65, which interestingly costs Cdn $241,000. (Build one for yourself and see at www.mercedes.ca) .

Again, I'd be happy to discuss the other points your raised via PM.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I didn't say anyone was doing that, I simply pointed out that there is nothing wrong with being rich unless it comes through deciet. It also isn't ok if it comes through other illicit means.

you are implying that the Crouches have gained their money by deciet...prove it! The problem is you can't.

 

[BenAdam]

I've been vacillating whether to respond to your post here publicy or via PM, since discretion (mine) is in order. But since up until now we haven't interacted, I'll keep this post intentionally brief, and I'd be happy to discuss further via PM.

I can't speak for Mr. Crouch, since I don't know him personally. And while by most people's standards my family live a modest yet comfortable lifestyle, it's far from extravagant. However, in my professional life I raise capital. Lots of it.

So to answer your one question here, "Is there any reason for a Christian - who is supposed to live a modest life - to own a vehicle that costs even $100,000...much less $240,000?" tell me: what car would you recommend that I should be driving/owning, when I meet with bankers, financiers, and investors on the golf course who are about two fork over a sum with many zeroes?

Last week I met one of them in their MB S65, which interestingly costs Cdn $241,000. (Build one for yourself and see at www.mercedes.ca) .

Again, I'd be happy to discuss the other points your raised via PM.

If I may respond Andry, from my own view on this. There is nothing wrong with a Christian having that kind or any kind of vehicle per se. If we have a job that pays us so we can own one, great. But there is a confict of intrest where ministries come in. Should a minister set their own salary, et al? For example Joel Osteen now doesn't take a salary from Lakewood as he recieves a large income from his book (to the best of my knowledge). He can live whatever lifestyle he wants. But others take money from the donations given to the ministry, church, whatever. In the intrest of avoiding the appearence of evil, shouldn't someone living off the good will of others who are entreated to give to further the Kingdom, feed the poor, etc. live a more modest lifestyle?

 

[BenAdam]

you are implying that the Crouches have gained their money by deciet...prove it! The problem is you can't.

I am implying nothing. Take a chill pill.

 

[Andry]

I find it unconscionable to get rich through a non-profit organization. It defeats the purpose of the non-profit in the first place.

(For clarity and for the benefit of those who don't fully understand the role that our conscience plays, it offends my conscience; to me that is sin. This is not a judgement on anyone else's conscience, so don't be judging mine.)

 

[Andry]

If I may respond Andry, from my own view on this. There is nothing wrong with a Christian having that kind or any kind of vehicle per se. If we have a job that pays us so we can own one, great. But there is a confict of intrest where ministries come in. Should a minister set their own salary, et al? For example Joel Osteen now doesn't take a salary from Lakewood as he recieves a large income from his book (to the best of my knowledge). He can live whatever lifestyle he wants. But others take money from the donations given to the ministry, church, whatever. In the intrest of avoiding the appearence of evil, shouldn't someone living off the good will of others who are entreated to give to further the Kingdom, feed the poor, etc. live a more modest lifestyle?

I'd agree.

But, as you'd note, the poster broadbrushed, and not qualified it as you did. However, my previous post on non-profits lines up with you I believe.

 

[HisBelovedMelody]

I am implying nothing. Take a chill pill.

REALLY?? NOT implying anything?!?!?!?
/me walks away shaking head...
yeah, ok!

 

[jrlinz]

I find it unconscionable to get rich through a non-profit organization. It defeats the purpose of the non-profit in the first place.

(For clarity and for the benefit of those who don't fully understand the role that our conscience plays, it offends my conscience; to me that is sin. This is not a judgement on anyone else's conscience, so don't be judging mine.)

But, andy,as I asked in another thread: Does God say He will prosper those who serve Him?

 

[Andry]

But, andy,as I asked in another thread: Does God say He will prosper those who serve Him?

Define prosper.

 

[BenAdam]

Define prosper.

Wow, I practically said the same thing.

 

[jrlinz]

In the sense of Jews of the time, it meant health, wealth, family, a full, inseperable package (in my understanding).