Water Baptism - Is It Really Necessary?

[BroGinder]

This is an AFTER cross experience. A commandment from Jesus himself to the disciples.

Matt 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV

 

[Rich48]

This is an AFTER cross experience. A commandment from Jesus himself to the disciples.

Matt 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV

You are exactly correct!

The command is to baptise. That means in water, for no man can baptise another "in the Spirit" as others have attempted to say.

Rich

 

[GenemZ]

Please--give ANY scripture to back up what you say. Where does it say that? Simple answer-nowhere.

Rich

Does the Scripture tell you how to post me? If not? How can you know how?

The Scripture, and the way you are asking me to use it, is not that way. Many of the insights one gets from Scripture is not from the Scripture giving a direct directive. If your way were to be used to know all we are to know? Jesus would not be God. Because he never comes out and directly says he is. He says things that require we think and deduce that he is.

Likewise. What I told you is to be deduced. How? By knowing what Scripture does teach.

Philippians 1:9 niv
"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."



2 Timothy 2:15 niv
"Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."

​

With your way of thinking? We would not need any teachers. The Bible would simply say "do this," "do that," and not require any thinking and deciding on our part. Some people want that sort of thing, I realize. Others want someone who can teach them what they need to know to do their own thinking with. The Bible is designed to make us think and decide what to believe. It is not designed to program us like a machine, or computer. We are alive. Not dead.

Hebrews 6:1 niv
"Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God."
​

Those who need to be told what to do and think are abiding in dead works = religion. You are asking me for a direct statement that states there is no more water baptism for today. While the Bible had arranged it so that who think and do not need to have to be told what to think, will be able to figure it out for themselves. I can not do that for you. And, that is what you are demanding of me as your condition for acceptance for the truth.

Matthew 5:29
"And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell."
​

God purposely places passages like that in the Bible for those who demand directives that require no reasoning and deduction.

Philippians 1:9 niv
"And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."

​

What you demand of me is to not use insight. Insight which requires we abound more and more in the knowledge of God's Word.

Tradition and ritual are dead in not being able to impart that knowledge. Only being taught the Word of God on a consistent basis can bring a person who is positive to God's Word, to the point where God can begin pouring insight. Insight comes from God. Not from having things spelled out in black and white.

Please--give ANY scripture to back up what you say. Where does it say that? Simple answer-nowhere.

Rich

I have been giving nothing but Scripture. You just do not have the capacity to put it all together and see the whole picture. I have been explaining what was taking place at the time certain passages were written. What they did know at that time. And, what they were yet to know. Scripture does bear this out. Why you can not see it? I can lead you to the water of the Word. But, I can not make you drink.

Acts 11:16
"Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit."

Drink? Or, refuse?

Grace and truth, GeneZ
​

 

[GenemZ]

This is an AFTER cross experience. A commandment from Jesus himself to the disciples.

Matt 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
KJV

Did you not know This was told to them, just before that?

Acts 1:5 niv​

"For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit."​

Jesus defined it for them! He did explain it. But, it did not sink in yet.

A ways down the road Peter finally grasped what Jesus was telling them.

Acts 11:16 niv​

"Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'​

Think! All that time Peter was water baptizing? He had not yet remembered the words of the Lord telling him that water was to be replaced by the Holy Spirit! That's why there was so much water baptisms going on!

That explains why water was still used. For, they were still functioning as they were trained to do before the Church age began.

Didn't anyone tell you a new way to do something? And you kept on doing it the old way? And, when they saw you doing it the old way? You told them you forgot? Happens all the time! The disciples were caught up in a time of great excitement and awe when Jesus first rose. Their concentration was not at its best. For they were overwhelmed and overjoyed.

Luke 24:41 niv​

"And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?"​

Being in a heightened emotional state can cause one not to grasp what it is he is being told. Later on, the persoin will get it when he remembers and is in a stabilized state of mind. Like with Peter.

I think the real problem here is that you can not figure out how so many can be so wrong, and for so long.

Matthew 7:13-15 (New International Version)
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
​

The mainstream church is "broad and wide." People just drift along and get nowhere. Same thing today as it was yesterday. The river of rightesousness flows in a narrow path and lifts one up and brings him to where God wants him to be. It requires being taken where you have not been before in your thinking.

Amos 5:24
"But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream."
​

Righteousness is not "broad and wide." Its strait and narrow. Mighty streams are not broad and wide. And, they are dangerous if you are not kept afloat (grace).

Acts 11:16 niv
"Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
​

That's not for mainstream thinking. Its too much for them to handle. They fear jumping in and to find out where it will take them. For they desire the security of traditional thinking. And, when something comes along to prove the traditional thinking wrong? It feels threatened.

Matthew 16:25 niv
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it."
​

That, in a nutshell, is the problem. Institutions offer security. Christ offers life and spiritual adventure.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[Rich48]

Acts 8
26. But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, "Arise and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.)
27. And he arose and went; and behold, there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship.
28. And he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
29. And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
30. And when Philip had run up, he heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31. And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:
"He was led as a sheep to slaughter;
33. "In humiliation His judgment was taken away;
34. And the eunuch answered Philip and said, "Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself, or of someone else?"
35. And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
36. And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
37. [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
38. And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing.
40. But Philip found himself at Azotus; and as he passed through he kept preaching the gospel to all the cities, until he came to Caesarea. (NASB)

So, the Spirit told Phillip to go, because he was to teach this man about Christ, and the way to salvation. In His teaching, Phillip taught that, at the very least, water baptism was quite important. Since the Spirit knows all, are you saying that He would send some to teach something that was wrong?

Sorry, but that, to me, quite inconceivable.

 

[GenemZ]

Acts 8
26. But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, "Arise and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.)
27. And he arose and went; and behold, there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship.
28. And he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
29. And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
30. And when Philip had run up, he heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31. And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:
"He was led as a sheep to slaughter;
33. "In humiliation His judgment was taken away;
34. And the eunuch answered Philip and said, "Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself, or of someone else?"
35. And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
36. And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
37. [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
38. And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing.
40. But Philip found himself at Azotus; and as he passed through he kept preaching the gospel to all the cities, until he came to Caesarea. (NASB)

So, the Spirit told Phillip to go, because he was to teach this man about Christ, and the way to salvation. In His teaching, Phillip taught that, at the very least, water baptism was quite important. Since the Spirit knows all, are you saying that He would send some to teach something that was wrong?

Sorry, but that, to me, quite inconceivable.

Question:

Did Philip and the eunuch have an understanding about the baptism of the Holy Spirit at that moment? If they did? How could they?

In Christ, GeneZ

 

[sawdust]

Acts 8
26. But an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying, "Arise and go south to the road that descends from Jerusalem to Gaza." (This is a desert road.)
27. And he arose and went; and behold, there was an Ethiopian eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure; and he had come to Jerusalem to worship.
28. And he was returning and sitting in his chariot, and was reading the prophet Isaiah.
29. And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
30. And when Philip had run up, he heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
31. And he said, "Well, how could I, unless someone guides me?" And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
32. Now the passage of Scripture which he was reading was this:
"He was led as a sheep to slaughter;
33. "In humiliation His judgment was taken away;
34. And the eunuch answered Philip and said, "Please tell me, of whom does the prophet say this? Of himself, or of someone else?"
35. And Philip opened his mouth, and beginning from this Scripture he preached Jesus to him.
36. And as they went along the road they came to some water; and the eunuch said, "Look! Water! What prevents me from being baptized?"
37. [And Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."]
38. And he ordered the chariot to stop; and they both went down into the water, Philip as well as the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39. And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away; and the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing.
40. But Philip found himself at Azotus; and as he passed through he kept preaching the gospel to all the cities, until he came to Caesarea. (NASB)

So, the Spirit told Phillip to go, because he was to teach this man about Christ, and the way to salvation. In His teaching, Phillip taught that, at the very least, water baptism was quite important. Since the Spirit knows all, are you saying that He would send some to teach something that was wrong?

Sorry, but that, to me, quite inconceivable.

There is nothing in there to say Phillip taught about water baptism. It was the Eunuch's request to be baptised in water. There could be many other ways the Eunuch learnt about water baptism apart from Phillip saying anything about it.

Don't read what is not there and you might find how these things are conceivable.

peace

 

[GenemZ]

There is nothing in there to say Phillip taught about water baptism. It was the Eunuch's request to be baptised in water. There could be many other ways the Eunuch learnt about water baptism apart from Phillip saying anything about it.

Don't read what is not there and you might find how these things are conceivable.

peace

Both of them were simply following what they were accustomed to seeing from the prior Jewish age. After all, water baptsim was the way up until the Church age begun. And, the Jewish age had just abruptly ended.

It would be like an Aussie moving to the USA. For the first few hours he might want to drive on the wrong side of the road, which he always grew up believing was the right side to drive on.

That is, until he sees oncoming traffic.

Likewise, in the beginning of the Church age there only a very few on this road. So? No one would stop them from going the way they did. They still thought it was the same road as they had traveled before.

Grace and peace, GeneZ

How do you guys ever shift with your left hand?

 

[Rich48]

I am sorry, Genez, but you are making an assumption that is not backed up by scripture, but only by a pre-conceived assumption that water baptism is not a NT sacrement.

Once again, you have failed to address the main question I posed to you-that being, why would the Holy Spirit send Phillip to this man knowing (as God, He would have known) that Phillip would teach doctririal error?

Peace,

Rich

ps-I do appreciate the non-confrontational posts here!

 

[GenemZ]

I am sorry, Genez, but you are making an assumption that is not backed up by scripture, but only by a pre-conceived assumption that water baptism is not a NT sacrement.

Look. You are not getting what I am saying. Its that simple. Not everyone will. Its that simple. I am not the one who is supposed to convince you of the truth. I am only to present it.

Once again, you have failed to address the main question I posed to you-that being, why would the Holy Spirit send Phillip to this man knowing (as God, He would have known) that Phillip would teach doctririal error?

God called Peter to be an apostle, and Jesus called him Satan at one point. And, after becoming an apostle, Peter still messed up terribly.

Galatians 2:12-14 (New International Version)

"Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?"
​

And! Peter was alreaday shown and KNEW he was to freely associate with Gentiles. Shown, DIRECTLY by the LORD!

Acts 10:27-29 (New International Version)

"Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. He said to them: "You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?"
​

Yet? Peter? Being, Peter? Ended up raming his car into a ditch.

Peter was chosen by God to show others that God is a merciful and forgiving God.

One thing Peter reveals to us all. You can completely blow it with God's plan for your life, and God is ready to forgive, if we would just turn to God's mercy. What better way to show it?

Once again, you have failed to address the main question I posed to you-that being, why would the Holy Spirit send Phillip to this man knowing (as God, He would have known) that Phillip would teach doctririal error?

Did that answer your question?

Grace and peace, GeneZ

 

[sawdust]

You are exactly correct!

The command is to baptise. That means in water, for no man can baptise another "in the Spirit" as others have attempted to say.

Rich

No-one has attempted to say that the Matthew passage is Christ commanding men to baptise other men "in the Spirit". He is telling them to go and make disciples by immersing them in His full nature and character and works. This is done every time the Gospel is proclaimed.

Yet you turn around and say "No. This is not what it means, you have to have water to baptise someone." Well if this is true then explain to me how someone can be baptised into Moses. What do you think Moses is, a swimming pool?

It is as you say, the command is to baptise. John baptised with water BUT YOU (that means YOU) will be baptised in the Spirit because those who were faithful to Christ's command to baptise in His Name spoke the truth of who GOD is and those things He has done in Christ. To those who believed this truth the Lord baptised in His Spirit. And He did it without one drop of water. Go ask Cornelius how much water he went under before he received the promise of God unto eternal life.

The only argument I have seen presented for water baptism is the insistence that the word "baptism" has to mean "in water" in spite of the fact that you readily recognise there are exceptions. (ie in the Spirit) That and the fact the Church has always taught this. Well let's hope this hasn't been at the insistence of the Laodicean type Church because they never got anything right.

peace

 

[sawdust]

Both of them were simply following what they were accustomed to seeing from the prior Jewish age. After all, water baptsim was the way up until the Church age begun. And, the Jewish age had just abruptly ended.

What scares me is if one cannot see the transition from water baptism to baptism in the Spirit what other transition can they not see? Law to Grace?

It would be like an Aussie moving to the USA. For the first few hours he might want to drive on the wrong side of the road, which he always grew up believing was the right side to drive on.

That is, until he sees oncoming traffic.

Nah, we'll just make sure we're driving the biggest truck on the road, then we'll see who moves!

We'll teach you guys yet... patience is the key... well that and a big truck.

How do you guys ever shift with your left hand?

What can I say? We're a clever bunch.

peace

 

[GenemZ]

What scares me is if one cannot see the transition from water baptism to baptism in the Spirit what other transition can they not see? Law to Grace?

Many do not see it. They keep quoting passages that pertain to the OT saint way of life as to justify their beliefs. Ritual and ceremony.

The Gospels were spoken to Jews, as Jews. It was not spoken to the Church, as far as being the model for the Church. It was spoken to those living under the Law, by one observing the Law. When we get into the Epistles, that's when we see messages spoken directly to the Church.

Nah, we'll just make sure we're driving the biggest truck on the road, then we'll see who moves!

I say, now? You sound like you may be a legalist!

Grace and peace, GeneZ​

​

 

[Tychicum]

Baptism is ... but not by water but by the Spirit.


Ask yourself a few questions ...

Was Matt 28 before or after the Cross?

Was the Cross of any signifigance?

Did the deciples keep the whole of the Law of Moses then?

Do we keep the whole of the Law?

What difference does it make?

Who cares?

.

 

[sawdust]

I say, now? You sound like you may be a legalist!

Really, you think? Gee, I was seeing it the complete opposite way.

There's you telling me to move over just because you say it's right and I do so without any thought to this really "big truck" I'm sitting in. Hmmm.

Ah well, guess it's all about perception.

Grace And Peace to you GeneZ.

 

[GenemZ]

Really, you think? Gee, I was seeing it the complete opposite way.

There's you telling me to move over just because you say it's right and I do so without any thought to this really "big truck" I'm sitting in. Hmmm.

Ah well, guess it's all about perception.

Grace And Peace to you GeneZ.

Truck, because legalists are usually spiritual bullies. Trying to push everyone around to conform to their way of thinking with threats and condemnations.

Grace oriented types don't even drive. They fly.

Grace And Peace, GeneZ
​

 

[Carlos Vigil]

Remove post...by Carlos Vigil

 

[GenemZ]

How would the eunuch know about water, that he would be so eager to be Baptized in it ?
...unless Philip had CATECHIZED him with the APOSTOLIC TEACHING which made them ALL IN ONE ACCORD.

All of Judea knew about water baptism! John the Baptist traveled up and down Israel baptizing thousands. He was known by all!

And, the disciples of Jesus even baptized more than John, did!

John 4:1-2 (New International Version)​

"The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples."

​

That's why. That's why everyone was still thinking water.


All the disciples of Jesus had been baptizing even more people in water than even John! It became a way of life for them! For that means thousands of people were being baptized all the time.

When the Church age began they just kept right on doing as they thought before. For, they still had not yet caught on to the new reality of the baptism of the Holy Spirit being the replacement for water.

Mark 1:8 niv
"I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

​

John the Baptist knew what was to come. And, he never lived to see the day.

In Christ, GeneZ
​

 

[BroGinder]

Addressing the scripture you have presented to me at this point as we discussed in previous postings. I will respond as you have requested.

John 4:1-2
4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
KJV

My understanding of this scripture is that, Jesus applied himself more to preaching, which was more excellent, than to baptism. He would put honour to his disciples, by employing them to baptize. He teaches us that the benefit of sacraments depends not on the hand that administers them.


Mark 1:6-11
6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
KJV

Christ's baptism was his first public appearance, after he had long lived unknown. He took upon himself the likeness of sinful flesh; and thus, for our sakes, he sanctified himself, that we also might be sanctified, and be baptized with him, and how honourably God owned him, when he submitted to John's baptism.

Acts 1:5
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
KJV

In this scripture Jesus is describing the infilling of the Holy Ghost. A gift form God. The baptism of the Holy Ghost can only come from Jesus, Lord of Lords, and King of Kings. This is not a baptism that MAN can give. It does not say For John truly baptized with water, but from now on ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. He was preparing them for a new experience in Christ. Something they had not experienced before.

Acts 11:16
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Taking this scripture into context, this was Peter telling the story about the experience at Cornelius’ house. How God had given him a vision of the unclean and the clean. Cornelius’ was a Gentile. Peter was telling a story to the Jews how the Gentiles were also being blessed with the Holy Ghost just as the Jews were. He had to explain because the Jews were unset about the rumors they had heard. Once he told them this story they held their peace and glorified God.

 

[GenemZ]

Addressing the scripture you have presented to me at this point as we discussed in previous postings. I will respond as you have requested.

John 4:1-2
4:1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
KJV

My understanding of this scripture is that, Jesus applied himself more to preaching, which was more excellent, than to baptism. He would put honour to his disciples, by employing them to baptize. He teaches us that the benefit of sacraments depends not on the hand that administers them.


Mark 1:6-11
6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and with a girdle of a skin about his loins; and he did eat locusts and wild honey;
7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.
8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
KJV

Christ's baptism was his first public appearance, after he had long lived unknown. He took upon himself the likeness of sinful flesh; and thus, for our sakes, he sanctified himself, that we also might be sanctified, and be baptized with him, and how honourably God owned him, when he submitted to John's baptism.

Acts 1:5
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
KJV

In this scripture Jesus is describing the infilling of the Holy Ghost. A gift form God. The baptism of the Holy Ghost can only come from Jesus, Lord of Lords, and King of Kings. This is not a baptism that MAN can give. It does not say For John truly baptized with water, but from now on ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. He was preparing them for a new experience in Christ. Something they had not experienced before.

Acts 11:16
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
KJV

Taking this scripture into context, this was Peter telling the story about the experience at Cornelius’ house. How God had given him a vision of the unclean and the clean. Cornelius’ was a Gentile. Peter was telling a story to the Jews how the Gentiles were also being blessed with the Holy Ghost just as the Jews were. He had to explain because the Jews were unset about the rumors they had heard. Once he told them this story they held their peace and glorified God.

All you offer here are sidebars to what the points that were being made.

If in court someone said the wife threw a vase at her husband and cut his head. Your type of response here would be to explain where the vase was made, and the method used to make it.

Its diversionary, and you have failed to deal with what was being said in its context. If this were a topic of how its Scripurally wrong to whip animals... you would proceed to explain how whips are made, and not deal with the issue.

That is what you just did. You wandered off the subject.

Mark 1:8 niv​

"I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."​

John the Baptist knew that to be true. He will leave all who refuse to acknowledge the truth on this matter to be without any excuse.

The problem with some is not even the issue of baptism. The problem is, their idolized institutions are being exposed for bearing false witness.

If the mafia can hire lawyers to make the guilty look innocent through technicality? How much easier to do so for what is supposed to be a good cause?

Life is full of examples of what wrong things man does. Life in Christ is always being an example of the right thing to be.

Jesus was never one to protect the errors of any given institution! He was hated by the Pharisees for that very reason. For, if you look at it this way. Jesus was attacking the evils of his mother church. The distortions that had crept its way into Judaism. And, he was hated for it. Yet, there were those willing to have him killed rather than have their errors exposed.

Likewise!

Some here will kill the Word of God in order to protect the institutions that they seek security in. We are not to seek security first! We are to seek LIFE!

That is what is happening here in many debates in the forum when false teaching is defended at all cost. Ultimately, it comes down to killing the Word of God in one's soul when the truth is clearly revealed from Scripture, which one refuses to accept.

They refuse to even repeat the Scripture as it speaks to us. They evade and hide in their chosen institution which refuses to change and become transformed by the life in Christ. Instead, they nail Christ down with church dogmas, traditions and customs as to keep him from having any movement over them. They want everything to be predictable. That gives them a sense of power over time, which does not sit still.

John 21:18 niv​

"Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."​

When its time for an institution to die, it gets taken where it originally did not want to go. Reformation.

Mark 1:8 niv​

"I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."​

In Christ, GeneZ