• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Why support for same-sex marriage is declining

“Support for same-sex marriage among Republicans has dropped 14 points in the last 3 years, per Gallup.” So reports Bryan Metzger, a senior politics reporter for Business Insider. According to Gallup’s analysis of their own numbers:

Ten years after the Supreme Court established same-sex marriage as a constitutional right, national support remains strong and steady at 68%. However, this ostensible stability masks deepening partisan divides. Although Democrats’ and independents’ support continues to rise or hold steady, Republicans’ support—which initially grew in the years following the Obergefell decision—has fallen each of the past three years. The moral acceptability of same-sex relations shows a similar pattern.
Why? What is going on here? We don’t have hard data yet as to what caused the trend. But here are a few thoughts. They are in no particular order and they overlap somewhat.

First, it’s not just a partisan thing. It’s a generational thing. Generation Z’s support for same-sex marriage has “plummeted” in recent years.

Second, well, consider some of the comments in Metzger’s thread. Says Family Research Council’s Joseph Backholm:

People are starting to see the big picture. SSM was sold on the basis that personal happiness is the greatest good. That was never true, but pretending it is has terrible consequences that we are just beginning to experience and come to terms with.
Third, consider some of those terrible consequences. “Maybe pushing gay porn and gender ideology into schools wasn’t such a great idea,” says one commenter in Metzger’s thread. “I had no idea accepting gay marriage meant I would have to accept men in women’s sports and doctors cutting the breasts off of teenage girls,” says another.

Continued below.

  • Locked
Democrat's Nazi Salute


Booker slammed for alleged 'Nazi salute' to Cali Dems just months after Musk was dragged for same gesture​

Terror Attack in Boulder, Colorado

Waited to see if anyone else would post this.

Short version: A man attacked a demonstration in Boulder. Colorado. The demonstration was for the freedom of hostages taken by Hamas on October 7, 2023. Account differ but the man set the demonstrators on fire.

Here's some links from "acceptable" sources:

Boulder attack updates: Suspect booked on charges after 'act of terror' with 'makeshift flamethrower'

Eight injured after man sets people on fire at Colorado rally for Israeli hostages

He was in the US illegally. It was harder to find from "acceptable" sources. Maybe this one will be close enough to acceptable. It's more in depth than several others:

Colorado firebomb terror attack suspect was in the US illegally after overstaying his visa, previously applied for asylum: report

ISIS claims first attack on new Syrian gov’t, claims to kill 7 members of ‘apostate regime’

The Islamic State has claimed responsibility for its first attack targeting Syria's transitional government, saying it killed or injured seven members of what it described as the "apostate Syrian regime."

The terror group, also known as ISIS or ISIL, claimed it carried out two attacks on a military road in the desert region of Talul al Safa in the southern province of Suwayda on May 22 and May 28.

In one attack, on May 22, a blast in the desert region killed or wounded seven Syrian soldiers, IS said in a statement, according to The Associated Press.

Continued below.

Judgement

God can't judge us by the standard of absolute perfection, or we would all stand condemned, and if you think otherwise, then I think you will stand condemned, and anything you have done or achieved by your own efforts is as filthy rags, and is an offense to God, because it puffs you up with pride, which is a sin that God hates over and above and beyond any others, because that is what happened to the Devil, and is also what happens with his children, who are God's actual enemies, etc. That being said, then should we continue in sin then? or not ever resist the urge to sin then? Well, that's probably not a very good idea either, but neither is trading some sins for sins that God hates even very much more either, etc. I would tell you that any and all sin, including some sins that you might trade for other sins, they can all be a possible risk to salvation, or of you getting to enjoy an eternity with God in the afterlife in Heaven, etc. Because He cannot judge us by the standard of absolute perfection, but nor can He just completely ignore any or all sin, then it's possible that some sin(s) can be a possible risk to salvation, etc. But God might also love a person a lot more who seems to be to the rest of the world 100% completely lost in their sins, because they are humble, versus a proud, judgemental, extremely critical and condemning, self-righteous person because they are not, etc, but are actually the true enemies of his, etc.

This is why I said some people are going to be very, very surprised on judgement day when that happens in Heaven, or before you can get into Heaven, etc.

I do also believe that judgement of every single individual is all going to be on a case by case basis also, etc, even though this won't seem to be very fair at first to some though, but in or by the end of it (the judgement) God will show us all how it was all 100% just/true/right, etc. And then people will be sent to their appropriate destinations that everyone regardless of where they are going will then be 100% agreed upon 100% completely, etc.

Also, none knows whether or not those being saved or getting into Heaven will be many or few either, Jesus didn't even know while he was here, but it was like the exact time and days of all of the seasons, no one ever knows/knew except our Father in Heaven, etc. So, just in case you are trying to evaluate the likelihood of your making it in or not based on that, you can't, because no one ever fully knew/knows that ever but only our Father in Heaven, and He has chosen not to fully reveal all of the exact details of that until we are all standing before Him before we are all maybe (or maybe not) getting into Heaven, etc.

God Bless.

Is honesty a strict requirement, always, no exceptions?

This happened a long time ago. The only reason it's on my mind is, it came up in a family discussion earlier.

Subject: Parents involving their children in an act of dishonesty. Especially when those same parents, catching those same children in a lie, would not hesitate to wear the daylights out of them with a belt.

State fair. My brother had recently turned 13. My mother tells the lady at the ticket booth he's 12. Of course, 12 and under paid a lower price for entry, but I didn't make that connection at the time. I didn't realize she was trying to be slick and save a little bit of money. I honestly thought, his birthday was recent enough, maybe Mom forgot he's 13 now. So, I said it. Out loud.

The ticket booth lady let him on through at the 12-and-under price. It could be that she didn't hear me. Or it could be that she heard me loud and clear, and she knew very well what I would catch if she made my mother pay full price for him, and she wanted to spare me such a fate. If that's the case, I'm grateful. If she didn't hear me, that was probably just as well for me too.

There was an expression going around during WWII, "Loose lips sink ships." The context was that an enemy spy could be overhearing, so be careful what you say. The adults in my family co-opted that phrase and put it in the context of, "I'm trying to pull a fast one here, and I don't want you blowing it for me, so keep your yap shut or you're in big trouble." As it is, I still caught a fair amount of dirty looks and grumbling, once we were away from the ticket booth, because I had opened my "big mouth," and "almost ruined everything."

Of course, the example came up in the discussion of hiding the Jews from the Nazis. "Do you have any Jews hiding in your house?"--"No, sir!" Well, I am entirely incapable of looking someone in the eye and saying something I know not to be true. Not that I'm holier-than-thou and I've never tried; I simply can't do it. I'm not even good at poker, or any other game involving strategy, because I just can't bluff. I *will* give myself away, however unintentially. So, for me, honesty really is the best policy. That means I probably shouldn't create a situation in which I would need to cover up something, such as hiding Jews from Nazis. The Jews would likely be better off if I don't involve myself, so that I can't give it away. (I am occasionally accused of lying, possibly because so many other people in those circumstances would lie, and that hurts me a lot. I may even take steps to document and prove what I'm saying is true. Only to be told I'm being unnecessarily defensive.)

That's not the only time I was ever the bad guy for speaking the truth. "Tell the bill collector on the phone I'm not home," was another common setup. I got ROYALLY chewed out for putting a bill collector on hold, "Just a minute please," and telling my mother it's a utility company asking for her. She looked angry and shook her head. I came back to the phone and said she's not home. After the call ended, she blew all the way up at me. In slightly different words, she said, "What a fool you made of me! You weren't discreet enough! They're gonna KNOW I was home!" I was every bit of 11 years old at the time. Supposed to be crafty and wise in the ways of the world at that age, wasn't I?

Repeat, this is the same mother who wouldn't have hesitated to let me have it with a belt if I ever lied to HER about anything.

Experience with similar situations in my young years tells me that if my mother's state fair ruse had failed, if she had ended up paying the full entry price for my brother, I would have been punished. Most likely everyone would get a soft drink, or ice cream cone, or some other treat, except me. Reason being, because I opened my mouth, now there's not enough extra money to get me one too. Maybe that'll teach me a lesson for next time.

Assuming rigorous honesty is a Christian value, or even a secular moral value, what should each person in this situation do? As the child, should you open your mouth and tell the truth, even if it exposes that your parent is lying? As the parent, is it right to expect your child to lie FOR you, especially if you would severely punish that child for lying TO you? As the ticket booth operator, would you let the 13-year-old on through at the 12-year-old price to save his sister from getting clobbered?

What are your thoughts?

Praise & Thank Jesus Christ for granting the Ukrainians a huge victory in battle as the Russians wage war against them

Praise & Thank Jesus Christ for granting the Ukrainians a huge victory in battle as the Russians wage war against them:

Trump Admin Institutes 80-Hour Constitution Course for ‘Deep State’ Execs

The overture to the American founding comes ahead of the national semi-quincentennial, or 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, and after nearly half a decade of dramatic disagreement over what those ideals mean. Democracy itself has been up for debate, with Democrats alleging that Trump represents an existential threat to that form of government.

This is so important, so many of these progressive D.C. bureaucrats have little understanding of the Declaration or Constitution.

The Lake That Burns with Fire

“And He who sits on the throne said, ‘Behold, I am making all things new.’ And He *said, ‘Write, for these words are faithful and true.’ Then He said to me, ‘It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost. He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son. But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.’” (Revelation 21:5-8 NASB1995)

In context, John had just finished writing the Revelations of Jesus Christ, as he had been given them by God, with regard to the last days. Yet the message here is mainly directed to the people who are reading this at any time in history prior to the fulfillment of these final events taking place which were written about in the book of Revelations, and while the people still have the time to choose God and his will over their sinful and fleshly desires.

For what did God say? He said he will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost, and he who overcomes will inherit these things, and God will be his God, and he who overcomes will be God’s son (or daughter). But read this in the context of verse eight which gives the opposite rewards based on the opposite response to the Lord and to his offer of salvation from sin and of eternal life with God.

So, what is the message here? It is the same message which was taught by Jesus and by his New Testament apostles all throughout the New Testament books. Faith in Jesus Christ will result in us denying self, dying with Christ to sin, and us walking in obedience to his commands, or it is not genuine faith which saves. We are the ones who thirst after God and after his will and after his righteousness and for the purpose to obey him and to live for him.

And “without cost” to us means that we do nothing in ourselves to earn or to deserve such a great salvation. Only by the grace of God, via Jesus’ death and resurrection, as persuaded by God, and as gifted to us by God, can any of us be of faith in Jesus Christ and die with him to sin and now walk in obedience to his commands in holy living. And thus have the hope of salvation from slavery to sin and of eternal life with God in heaven.

And overcoming has to do with overcoming sin and its hold on our lives, by the grace of God, in the power of God, so that we can now serve the Lord Jesus with our lives in surrender to his will and purpose for our lives. None of this is possible in our own human strength and will. But we must overcome and be those who now obey our Lord, in practice, in order for us to be those who inherit salvation from sin and eternal life with God in heaven.

So, “without cost” does not mean that there will be no cost to following Jesus with our lives. For we are taught in the Scriptures that it will mean self-denial and putting sin to death, by the Spirit, and walks of obedience to the Lord and to his commands. And it will cost us friends and family and relationships and jobs and careers, etc. And we will be hated and persecuted for our walks of faith in obedience to our Lord, but it will be worth it all.

But, if all we do is give lip service to Jesus Christ, and we do not bow to him as Lord, and we do not obey his commandments, and we do not forsake our sins, then we will not inherit eternal life with God. For all who are immoral people, and thieves, liars, adulterers, murderers, and idolaters, in practice, are regarded as the unbelieving, and they will not inherit eternal life with God, but their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone.

So don’t believe the lies which are telling you that all you have to do is to make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ, and now all your sins are forgiven, and heaven is now guaranteed you when you die. For the Scriptures teach that we must deny self, die to sin daily, and walk in obedience to our Lord’s commands, in practice, as evidence of faith in action which will result in forgiveness of all sins and eternal life with God. So take God seriously!

[Matthew 7:13-14,21-23; Luke 9:23-26; John 1:12-13; John 6:44; John 10:27-30; Acts 26:18; Romans 2:6-8; Romans 6:1-23; Romans 8:1-14; 1 Corinthians 10:1-22; Galatians 5:16-24; Ephesians 2:8-10; Ephesians 4:17-32; Ephesians 5:3-6; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrews 3:1-19; Hebrews 4:1-13; Hebrews 12:1-2; 1 Peter 2:24; 1 John 1:5-10; 1 John 2:3-6; 1 John 3:4-10]

For Our Nation

An Original Work / September 11, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love


Bombs are bursting. Night is falling.
Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.
Trust Him with your life today.
Make Him your Lord and your Savior.
Turn from your sin. Follow Jesus.
He will forgive you of your sin;
Cleanse your heart, made new within.

Men betraying: Our trust fraying.
On our knees to God we’re praying,
Seeking God to give us answers
That are only found in Him.
God is sovereign over all things.
Nothing from His mind escaping.
He has all things under His command,
And will work all for good.

Jesus Christ is gently calling
You to follow Him in all ways.

Men deceiving: We’re believing
In our Lord, and interceding
For our nation and its people
To obey their God today.
He is our hope for our future.
For our wounds He offers suture.
He is all we need for this life.
Trust Him with your life today.

Login to view embedded media
The Lake That Burns with Fire
An Original Work / June 1, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

WHY PAUL'S MYSYTERY CONCERNS ISRAEL AND GENTILES ?

# 1 FOR / GAR , is a CONJUNCATION

# 2 I WOULD / THELO , is in the Greek , Present Tense , Active Voice , in the Indicative Mood , in the Singular .

# 3 NOT / is a Disjuncative Partacle Negative

# 4 BRETHEN / ADEILHOS , Vocative Case , in the Plural

# 5 THAT YE / HYMAS , is a Personal Possesseive Pronoun , in the Accusative Case , in the Plural

# 6 OF THIS / LOUTO , Demanstrative Ponoun , in the Accusative Vase , in the Neuter , in the Singular

# 7 MYSTERY / MYSTERION , in the Accusative Case , in the Neuer and in the Singular , meaning that there ONLY ONE MYSTERY

that Paul wrote about in Rom 16:25 and you can FIND that word 21 times MYSTERY witten by Paul

# 8 THAT / HINA , is a Conjuncation

# 9 LEST / ME , is and other DISJUNCATIVE PARTICILE NEGATIVE

# 10 YE SHOULD BE / LO , is in the Present Tense , in the Subjuncative Mood , in the Plural

# 11 WISE / PHRONIMOS , in the Normative Case , in the Plural

# 12 IN / PARA , Is a Preposition

# 13 YOUR OWN CONCEIT / HEAUTOU , is a Refexive Peonoun , in the Dative Case , in the n n Pliral

# 14 THAT / HOTI , is a Conjuncation

# 15 BLINDNESS / POROSIS is in the Nominative Case , in the Singular

# 16 IN / APO , is a Proposition

# 17 PART / MEROS , in the Genitive Case , in the Singular and is in the Neuer

# 18 IS HAPPENED / GINOMAI , in the Perfect Tense , in tthe Active Voice , in the Indicaive Mood , means you better believe IT !

# 19 TO ISRAEL / ISRAEL

# 20 UNTIL / ACHRI , is a Preposition

# 21 THE / HO , is a Definite Article ,

# 22 FULNESS / PIEROMA , in the Nominative Case , in the Singular , in the Neuer

# 23 OF THE / HO , is a Definite Article , in a Genitive Case , in the Plural , in the Neuter

# 24 GENTILES / ETHNOS , in the Genitive Case , in ghe Plural , in the Neuter

# 25 BE COME IN / EISERCHOMAI , is in the Aorist Tense , Subjuncative Mood , in the Singular

It just meas to me , that TODAY we are are in the Dispensation of the MYSTERY , Rom 16:25 HAVING been Known all the GENTILES

FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH and saved by Rom 10:9 and 10 !!

dan p

Act 17:23

This is a completely off the wall question, but in Acts 17:23, Paul talked about seeing an altar to an ‘unknown god.’

Most temples had some kind of imagery representing the various gods worshipped there. The falcon head of Horus, or the lyre and bow & arrows of Apollo for example.

So what might an altar to an ‘unknown god’ look like? A block of wood or stone? Just an open niche in a wall?

I know, weird question, and completely pointless since, like Paul said, we know who He is.

BREAKING: 'Targeted Terror Attack' Hits Boulder, Colorado, During Pro-Israel Gathering


It's going to be a long time until we rid our nation of the terrorists let in under the Biden administration.

Praise & Thank Jesus Christ for granting the Ukrainians a huge victory in battle as the Russians wage war against them

Praise & Thank Jesus Christ for granting the Ukrainians a huge victory in battle as the Russians wage war against them:

Pray for protection of Israelite Bride against the demonic spirits of antisemitism

Pray for protection of Israelite Bride against the demonic spirits of antisemitism:

Has anyone ever known a protestant who defended the Catholic faith and later converted?

My mom impressed me the other day. My family are all evangelicals, but they never took issue with my conversion and even took interest in it. My mom and sister came to my confirmation (dad didn't just because he can't sit long in a pew without major discomfort). So I've been lucky in that regard, in the sense that none of the non-Catholics closest to me had any issue with my conversion.

Recently I found out that one of my mom's close lifelong friends apparently DOES have an issue, and she brings it up often when she and my mom talk. I personally don't care cause I find this friend of her obnoxious and try to avoid her anyway. However, my mom told me recently about their conversation and how her friend trotted out all the usual propaganda. What I found interesting though is that my mom went to bat for the faith. Her friend was tossing out all the usual lies about Our Lady and my mom was disputing them, and even went so far as to tell her "Don't you think if the God of the universe chooses someone to bear his Son that makes her pretty special?"

My mom's always been a peculiar case to me. She's always seemed to find some appreciation for Catholic teaching, worship, etc. She values the beauty in our sacred art, architecture, and especially music (she's a musician). Yet she's never been able to bring herself to convert. I think she has some hangup she's not willing to name or explain, but I think it comes from her Baptist upbringing (which she's always resented, ironically).

But I'm curious and hopeful that her defense of Our Lady could be a positive indicator that maybe she's softening up a bit. I don't know if I'll ever be the one to escort her to RCIA since I've been trying for eight years, but I pray it happens with or without my help. If she converted my dad would do it at the drop of a hat, he's rather fond of Catholicism and only stays where he is because of my mom. And then I wonder whether my sister and her husband might be open to converting if my mom did.

Anyway, does anyone know of any Saints or anecdotes or individuals they know personally who kind of set a precedent for this?

Large-Scale Ukrainian Attack Targets Air Bases Deep inside Russia

Russia’s Defense Ministry said on Sunday that Ukrainian drones had attacked airfields in five regions stretching across five time zones. Several aircraft caught fire in the regions of Murmansk, near the border with Norway, and Irkutsk, in eastern Siberia, the ministry said in a statement.

...
President Volodymyr Zelensky of Ukraine said on social media that planning for the operation had begun a year and a half ago, and that those involved in the attacks had been withdrawn from Russia before they took place.

He called the results of the assault “absolutely brilliant” and added, “Ukraine is defending itself, and rightly so — we are doing everything to make Russia feel the need to end this war.”

A video verified by The New York Times shows two drones being launched from containers mounted on the back of a semi-truck less than four miles from the Belaya air base. Both fly in the direction of large smoke plumes rising from the base. Footage recorded shortly afterward shows the same containers ablaze.
Another video shows drones flying less than four miles from the Olenya air base. The man recording it suggests that the drones had been launched from a truck parked just down the road. The Times could not confirm that these drones were part of the assaul
t.


Missing Mass

I had an embarrassing health related problem today. Because of this I decided to skip Mass. (i only go on Saturdays except Easter, for other reasons). By the time Mass was going to start I was feeling better but not sure it was over. Then I thought my issue was over, but by that time I‘d already decided to do something else. I plan to watch Mass online tomorrow morning and participate to make up for missing today, except I obviously won’t take communion. Is that an excuse to skip Mass or do I need to confess this?

Ukraine targets 4 Russian airfields in major drone attack, source says

LONDON -- The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) conducted a large-scale operation targeting four Russian military airfields on Sunday, an SBU source confirmed to ABC News, claiming to have hit more than 40 military aircraft "that bomb Ukrainian cities every night."

The governors of the Russian regions of Irkutsk and Murmansk confirmed drone attacks in their respective regions. Videos shared with ABC News by the SBU showed drones attacking Olenya airbase in Murmansk and Belaya airfield in Irkutsk. Both are home to Russian strategic bomber aircraft, including nuclear-capable bombers.

Continued below.

Fewer international tourists are visiting the U.S. — economic losses could be ‘staggering,’ researchers estimate


The World Travel & Tourism Council said this month it expects the U.S. economy to lose a “staggering” $12.5 billion in spending from international visitors in 2025, a “direct blow to the U.S. economy overall, impacting communities, jobs, and businesses from coast to coast.”​

‘Perceptions of the US matter’ for travel​

Trump administration “posturing and policy” tied to issues like border security and tariffs on long-standing trade partners have created “sentiment-headwinds” among would-be travelers, Ryan wrote.​
Flight bookings to the U.S. between May and July were down 11% year over year as of April, signaling a “weak” outlook that’s likely attributable to travelers looking elsewhere, Ryan wrote. Europe and Canada are notable laggards: air bookings are pacing more than 10% and 33% behind, respectively......​
The U.S. Travel Association projects the U.S. will lose $21 billion in travel-related revenue in 2025 if current trends continue. Each 1% drop in spending from international visitors translates to $1.8 billion in lost revenue per year for the U.S. economy, according to the trade group.​
This will affect airlines, hotels, restaurants, tourist sites and more. ''

Is this 'winning'?

Where is God, in the bible? In his people?

The holy scriptures are good for refuting error, for guiding people's lives and teaching them to be upright. And being inspired by God some think that God may be found in the pages of their printed bible, others observe that the people of God are said to be the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and his kingdom of priests. What do you think?

God saw that it was good ...

God saw that it was good ...


Gen 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.


God introduces clean and unclean out of what he saw as good.


Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.


Both clean and unclean are given for food.


Gen 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

God saw that it was good ... introduces clean and unclean out of what he saw as good ... but gives both clean and unclean for food ... then delcares a further extrapolation between clean and unclean, and the consequences of eating what he originally said was good.

Lev 11:41 And every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth shall be an abomination; it shall not be eaten.

Lev 11:42 Whatsoever goeth upon the belly, and whatsoever goeth upon all four, or whatsoever hath more feet among all creeping things that creep upon the earth, them ye shall not eat; for they are an abomination.

Lev 11:43 Ye shall not make yourselves abominable with any creeping thing that creepeth, neither shall ye make yourselves unclean with them, that ye should be defiled thereby.

Lev 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Lev 11:45 For I am the LORD that bringeth you up out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: ye shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.

Lev 11:46 This is the law of the beasts, and of the fowl, and of every living creature that moveth in the waters, and of every creature that creepeth upon the earth:

Lev 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

Then Jesus comes along ...

Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

Why does this start out as good then finds its end in that it literally has nothing to do with it?

By What We Do

“Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.” (Revelation 20:11-15 NASB1995)

Understanding The Last Days

I am no Bible scholar. I am just a woman of God who loves the Lord, and who walks in his ways, and who follows his leading, and who shares with others what I am getting out of the Scriptures each day as I spend time with the Lord in his word, and as I listen to his instructions and I follow them to the best of my understanding. So, there are things taught in the Scriptures about these last days which I do not fully comprehend, but I am learning.

And what I understand is that, in these last days before the return of Christ, there will be, and may currently be in process, a time of tribulation that will be worse than any this world has ever known before. And a “beast” will rule the earth, and the majority of the people of the earth will take the mark of the beast. But a remnant of those who are of genuine faith in Jesus Christ will refuse this mark and suffer persecution for our faith in the Lord Jesus.

After this time of great tribulation there is supposed to be a thousand year period of time in which Satan is bound and the saints of God who were beheaded during the tribulation, for their testimony for Jesus Christ, will reign with Christ for a thousand years. And once the thousand years are completed, Satan is to be let loose for a short period of time, and he will deceive the nations, but at the end the devil will be in torment forever.

Understanding The Gospel of Christ

I do not understand all of that (above), and I know there are many different viewpoints on what that means. But me understanding all that is not critical to my walk of faith in the Lord Jesus and to me sharing the truth of the gospel of our salvation, which is a life and death situation. For one day we are all going to stand before the Lord, and he is going to judge each one of us according to our works. And lip service only is not going to do it.

For no outward professions of faith in Jesus Christ are going to assure us salvation from sin and eternal life with God in heaven. What matters is what we do in love and heart response to God, to Jesus Christ, in denying self, dying with him to sin, and walking in his ways in walks of obedience to his commands in holy living, by the grace of God, and empowered by God. For that is what faith, which saves, looks like. It is shown by our deeds.

And this is critical that we understand what this is saying, for the masses today, at least here in American (USA), are buying into a cheapened and altered gospel message which makes no requirements of God for us to deny self, die with him to sin (not just once, but daily), and walk in obedience to his commands. They are teaching that a mere profession of faith assures them of forgiveness of all sins, and heaven, but regardless of how they live.

Now, does this mean that we have to live absolutely perfect lives or we are not saved, and heaven is not promised us? No! (1 John 2:1-2) But we must not be those who make sin our practice, and not obedience to God, who are still living to please the flesh, and for selfish desires, who ignore God and the teachings of the Scriptures, and who chart our own course without consulting the Lord, and who do what we want instead of what God wants.

For this does matter for eternity that we get this. We may not comprehend everything that is taught in the book of Revelation or in other books of the Bible where they talk about the last days, and the things which will take place, but what we need to understand and believe is that God is going to judge us all by our deeds, by how we live, and by the things that we do with regard to what his word teaches should be our action response to God.

For Jesus Christ taught that to come to him we must deny self, take up our cross daily (die daily to sin), and follow (obey) him. For if we hold on to living in sin and for self, we will lose our lives for eternity. But if we deny self, die daily to sin, by the Spirit, and we walk in obedience to our Lord and to his commands, in his power, then we have eternal life with God. For not everyone who calls him “Lord” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one DOING (obeying) the will of God (see Luke 9:23-26; Matthew 7:21-23).

[Matt 7:13-14,21-23; Lu 9:23-26; Jn 10:27-30; Ac 26:18; Rom 2:6-8; Rom 6:1-23; Rom 8:1-14; Rom 12:1-2; 1 Co 6:9-10,19-20; 1 Co 10:1-22; 2 Co 5:10,15,21; Gal 5:16-24; Gal 6:7-8; Eph 2:8-10; Eph 4:17-32; Eph 5:3-6; Col 1:21-23; Col 3:1-17; Tit 2:11-14; Heb 3:1-19; Heb 4:1-13; Heb 10:23-31; Heb 12:1-2; 1 Pet 2:24; 1 Jn 1:5-10; 1 Jn 2:3-6,15-17; 1 Jn 3:4-10]

Seek the Lord

An Original Work / July 20, 2012
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love
Musical Instrumentation by Mark Bradley
Based off Isaiah 55


“Come to Me all you who thirst; come to waters.
Listen to Me, and eat what’s good today,
And your soul will delight in richest of fare.
Give ear to Me, and you will live.
I have made an eternal covenant with you.
Wash in the blood of the Lamb.”

Seek the Lord while He may be found; call on Him.
Let the wicked forsake his way, in truth.
Let him turn to the Lord, and he will receive mercy.
Freely, God pardons him.
“For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,”
declares the Lord, our God.

“My word that goes out of My mouth is truthful.
It will not return to Me unfulfilled.
My word will accomplish all that I desire,
And achieve the goal I intend.
You will go in joy and be led forth in peace.
The mountains will burst into song… before you,
And all of the trees clap their hands.”

Login to view embedded media
By What We Do
An Original Work / June 1, 2025
Christ’s Free Servant, Sue J Love

The Jubilee Counting Method

I've been doing a lot of research into the Jubilee and how it was counted, and I've come to something of an impasse at this point. I wanted to throw this question out there for the community to see if anyone had any logical thoughts or arguments, or even more preferable, some historical evidence, to demonstrate the counting method for the Jubilee cycle.

Let me say up front that I am not looking for an explanation of what a Jubilee is, or the various interpretations people have made concerning how they worked or were counted. I don't need a lecture. Before you type anything, assume that I'm thoroughly well versed in the subject. What I'm looking for is proof or logic to help me clarify the counting method.

The primary information we have is derived from Ezekiel 1:1–2. We are fortunate with that passage, because the "fifth year of Jehoiachin's captivity" can be definitively deduced to beginning in Nisan of 594 BCE per Jehoiachin being taken captive on the 2nd of Adar in 597 BCE, in the seventh year of Nebuchadnezzar's reign by Babylonian reckoning (BM 21946 in Grayson, Assyrian and Babylonians Chronicles, 102), or his eighth year by Hebrew reckoning (2 Kgs. 24:12). In the fifth year of his captivity (the year running from Nisan to Nisan, 594 BCE to 593 BCE), on the 5th of Tammuz (the fifth day of the fourth month), i.e. late May or early June of 594 BCE, it is "the thirtieth year."

By Jewish count, that year was the twelfth year of Nebuchadnezzar. It was the fourth year of Zedekiah. It was the fifth year of the captivity. This "thirtieth" year has no correlation to any known epoch or dating convention apart from the Jubilee cycle. Ergo, it is the thirtieth year of the Jubilee. Jubilee years, as best as can be proven, are counted from Tishri to Tishri (bRosh Hash. 8b). That makes Tishri to Tishri, 595 BCE to 594 BCE, the thirtieth year of the Jubilee, and the only definitively datable Jubilee that we have any record of.

Per the particulars of Leviticus 25, the Jubilee runs concurrent with the Sabbatical year cycle. It also shares many of the same practices.

Where the complication comes in is the Sabbatical year. The question for which I am looking for proof or logical arguments is whether the year of the Jubilee is the year of the Sabbatical year, or the year following the Sabbatical year. The problem we have is that if the Jubilee follows the Sabbatical year, then everything done in the Jubilee is a duplication. The land, as one example, is left fallow for two years in a row. One year without sowing or reaping was enough of a concern that the law made a provision for it, saying that God would bless the harvest of the sixth year so they would have enough for three years, that being the seventh when they couldn't sow or reap, the eighth when there's nothing to reap because nothing was sown the previous year, and the ninth, while they are waiting for the harvest of the eighth year sowing to be ripe. No provision is ever made for four years, which is what would be required if there were two fallow years in a row. As the Talmud also argues, the law also says that you were to sow and reap for six years, whereas the Jubilee would leave only five years to sow and reap. So, from two separate directions, there is a valid reason to suspect that the fiftieth year of the Jubilee coincided with the forty-ninth year, or the final Sabbatical year of the cycle.

On the flip side of that, there is a very simple and logical argument, given by way of example from a simple week. There are seven days in a week. You can designate "on the eighth day," but the week is still only seven days. The eighth day is simply synonymous with the first day of the new week. The two enumerations are autonomous. So, in the case of the Jubilee, you count seven weeks of years, and on the fiftieth year, you sanctify the year and proclaim the Jubilee. The fiftieth year, like the eighth day, doesn't disrupt the new forty-nine year count, any more than the eighth day disrupts the seven day count of the week. This method, in my opinion, is the natural reading of the scripture, and I do believe it is the intended method being suggested.

But then there is another complication. We are told in Talmudic tradition (bTa'an 29a) that the first temple was destroyed either in the Sabbatical year itself, or in the year following the Sabbatical year. Reputable Hebrew scholars have translated the relevant statement both ways, and from a point of comparison, we can definitively say that the second temple was destroyed in the year following a Sabbatical year. If the two instances were, in fact, the same in the particular details, then arguably, the first temple was also destroyed in a year following the Sabbatical year.

Historically, if the temple was destroyed in 587 BCE (the nineteenth year of Nebuchadnezzar by Hebrew reckoning), the Sabbatical year in question would have had to run from either Tishri to Tishri, 589 BCE to 588 BCE, or Tishri to Tishri, 588 BCE to 587 BCE. When you couple these two years with the cyclical count from Ezekiel's thirtieth year, you end up with the fiftieth year (Tishri to Tishri, 575 BCE to 574 BCE) falling either in the Sabbatical year, or in the year preceeding the Sabbatical year.

The one interpretation that is not viable is having the cycle grossly preceed the Sabbatical year. In this case, if the first temple was destroyed in the Sabbatical year, then the count puts the fiftieth year concurrent with the forty-eighth year of the cumulative septennates. If the first temple was destroyed in the year following the Sabbatical year, then the fiftieth year coincides with the forty-ninth year. This would cause the Jubilee and Sabbatical year to run concurrently, allowing six years of sowing and reaping, only a single fallow year, and the need for only the three-year provision of a strong sixth year crop rather than a four-year provision that the Bible never gives.

From another point of view, the Talmud doesn't always get its history right. If the count should properly be the fiftieth year following the forty-ninth year, with the fiftieth year being simultaneously the first year of the new septennate, just as the eighth day would follow the seventh day, but simultaneously be the first day of the new week, then the Sabbatical year would necessarily have to fall two years before the destruction of the temple, not one, making the proper Sabbatical year Tishri to Tishri, 590 BCE to 589 BCE.

I don't consider the Jubilee aligning with the forty-eighth year of the septennates plausible. So, we can rule out the Sabbatical year coinciding with the year of the first temple's destruction.

All that said, proofs and logic for the remaining points of view are welcomed.

1) Should the count be a continuing string of forty-nine year periods, with a fiftieth year following each, declared the Jubilee, concurrent with the first year of the new forty-nine-year count, just as in the example of an eighth day overlapping two seven-day weeks? This is the natural reading of the commandment, but it does result in two fallow years, and probably famine on more than one occassion. No provision for an extra fallow year is ever given in scripture.

2) Should the count be forty-nine years, with the forty-ninth year, from Jubilee to Jubilee inclusively, reckoned the fiftieth year? In effect, this would mean that the forty-ninth year, fiftieth year, and first year are all synonymous, but also autonomous. This counting may be a little strange, but it does put the Sabbatical year in one of the traditional years relative to the destruction of the first temple. It also eliminates the complication of the extra fallow year.

As a bit of an addendum to the study, let me add that we do have evidence of a Sabbatical year during the reign of Zedekiah. In Jeremiah 34:8–22, there is a Sabbatical year. It's more than conspicuous. By all accounts, it is before the 10th of Tebeth in the ninth year of Zedekiah (Jer. 39:1, 52:4). Because they had done right in releasing servants, etc., due to the Sabbatical year of release, but then essentially recanted on the covenant they made with Zedekiah and took their servants back, God promised to, "cause them to return to this city" (speaking of the Babylonians), indicating that in the year in question, the Babylonians had already been there, had left, and would now return because of the people's sin, which the Babylonians did do on the tenth day of the tenth month in the ninth year of Zedekiah. With Ezekiel's cycle definitive, if the year of the Sabbatical year in Jeremiah 34:8–22 can be definitively ascertained, the entire question of the Jubilee can be solved once and for all.

Edit for Additional Material:

There does appear to be a potential fixed date for a Sabbatical year during the first temple period. Isaiah 37:30, just before the end of the siege by Sennarcharib, talks about eating whatever grows of its own self during that present year, and the year following, with sowing, planting, and reaping in the third year.

During the first year (their present year), what crops there were awaiting harvest that year would have no doubt been destroyed by the besieging army. So, they had to eat whatever grew in the aftermath. But there's no viable reason that I have read anywhere that justifies leaving the land unsown during the following year. It's deliberately left fallow. Sowing and reaping isn't reinstituted until the third year. This, in my opinion, is a conspicuous indication that the second year was a Sabbatical year.

Sennacherib came to power in 705 BCE, and we know from the Sennacherib Prism, columns 2 and 3, that he besieged Jerusalem during his third campaign in 703 BCE. So, by all accounts, the latter half of 703 BCE was the sixth year of the Sabbatical cycle, with the Sabbatical year itself running Tishri to Tishri, 702 BCE to 701 BCE.

When I extrapolated the cycle forward from that, the result was the temple being destroyed in the second year following the Sabbatical year, and the fiftieth year counted forward from Ezekiel's thirtieth year falling in the first year of the cycle.

Ergo, it would appear that despite the difficulties presented by two consecutive fallow years, the appropriate, and documentable method of counting the Jubilee is to count continuous forty-nine year cycles, with the fiftieth year hallowed and the Jubilee declared. But the fiftieth year is also the first year of the new cycle, just as the eighth day is the first day of the new seven-day cycle for a week.

This would also put the Sabbatical year during the reign of Zedekiah from Tishri to Tishri, 590 BCE to 589 BCE, which begins in Tishri in the eighth year of Zedekiah and ends in Tishri of Zedekiah's ninth year. Nebuchadnezzar came to besiege Jerusalem three months later, on the tenth day of the tenth month, in the ninth year of Zedekiah. A very timely fulfillment of Jeremiah's prophecy.

I DO still want more evidence if anyone can provide any. Any other curious instances where a Sabbatical year might have been subtly mentioned. So, keep the info coming if anyone has any.
  • Informative
Reactions: Richard T

Filter

Forum statistics

Threads
5,874,072
Messages
65,344,608
Members
276,137
Latest member
Norton R. Nowlin