Trump is right, fiscally it makes sense to build a wall blocking Mexico

[Armoured]

It sure does. Just Google it by subject.

Or, you know, you could provide a citation, since it's your claim and all.

 

[Armoured]

That is why what? That's why it's okay to say that black people kill police officers?

Why black people are wrong to care about stuff that happened a long time ago.

 

[Armoured]

I suppose...But how do people make comments like that, and then get defensive when they are accused of being racist? Can of worms...

I on the other hand admit to being racist, yet would never make a statement anything like that.

People are weird, huh?

 

[JGG]

Why black people are wrong to care about stuff that happened a long time ago.

It seems like a bit of non-sequitur.

 

[Armoured]

It seems like a bit of non-sequitur.

Well, I'm not the one making the claim...

 

[JGG]

I on the other hand admit to being racist, yet would never make a statement anything like that.

People are weird, huh?

I admit it too. I had a long post on one of these Trump threads about how everyone is somewhat racist. The difference is in whether we try to not let it effect how we really see people.

I also had a thread in a Trump thread about how you don't have to be PC, and have every right to say horrible racist things, but you still shouldn't because there is a social cost to saying something like that. Like being called out on being racist.

 

[JGG]

No.

You're okay with Canadian illegal immigrants, but not illegal immigration? Or you're not okay with Canadian illegal immigrants and just don't feel like doing anything about it?

 

[TheBarrd]

It seems like a bit of non-sequitur.

Why don't you tell that to the dead officer's wife and kids?
Or try to explain it to the shooter's family and friends?

Black lives matter...yes, they certainly do. I can agree with that.
White lives matter too, don't they?
And the lives of our police officers...don't they matter?
You don't see the irony in chanting things like "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" during a protest march that is being protected by a police escort?
Call me racist...but that's just asking for trouble...

 

[JGG]

Why don't you tell that to the dead officer's wife and kids?
Or try to explain it to the shooter's family and friends?

Tell them what?

Black lives matter...yes, they certainly do. I can agree with that.
White lives matter too, don't they?
And the lives of our police officers...don't they matter?
You don't see the irony in chanting things like "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" during a protest march that is being protected by a police escort?
Call me racist...but that's just asking for trouble...

Okay, you understand that this whole line of accusation is indeed very racist, right? And you basically just said you don't care if you're called a racist. So I will respectfully ask, if I start calling you out for being a racist on these threads, are you going to be offended? Are you going to deny being a racist when I call it out? Are you going to be that person on here?

I really, really can't imagine that you really want that. So please, just stop for a moment and think about what it is you've been saying and the effect that will have on everything you say hereafter.

 

[TheBarrd]

If it makes me a racist to think that cold blooded murder is wrong, then call me a racist.
Of course, I would be just as angry if it were a white punk who had gunned down a black cop who was doing nothing more than pumping gas...and my heart would go out to the grieving family.
If it is racist to decry a march that encourages violence with chants like "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon", then you'll just have to color me racist. And doing while being protected by police officers...well, there are no words.
Of course, if a group of Ku Klux Klanners marched down the street chanting such garbage, and using the dreaded "n" word, I'm sure you'd have something negative to say about it. And so would I. And especially if they were doing it while being protected by a group of black cops...
Racism, my dear naive friend, works both ways...and a killing is a killing, whether it is a white cop killing a black suspect, or a black man gunning down a police officer. Either way, the result is a dead person, grieving families...and a lot of anger.

Now, if you want to "call me out" on that, feel free. I will continue to say that ALL lives matter. Black lives do not matter any more than any other lives.
I'm beginning to wonder if you are not a bit of a racist yourself....

 

[GoingByzantine]

Honestly, you remind me of those black people who are still mad because their ancestors were brought here as slaves. Even though all of that was over a very long time ago...and they have attained "equal rights" with all that entails. And now, we have them shooting and killing police officers for no apparent reason.

Here you are, sitting in a nice house, with electricity and running water, and flushing toilets...probably with a washing machine and a dryer, and perhaps even a dishwasher...sitting and typing on a computer...and complaining about how those awful white folks took away your culture. It's actually rather amusing.

It's been some time since anyone forced Indians to live on the rez. Many choose to do so, because, in these days, they can have decent housing at a fraction of the cost, and because they don't have to pay taxes. It's a win-win situation.

Now, you can go back to hunting and gathering if you want...live in a teepee without all those modern conveniences, chew on deer hide to make it soft enough to make clothes out of, and all the rest of it. No one is stopping you. If that is what you really want....

Some people just want something to be mad about...

Electricity, running water, a dishwasher etc. are not specific to "American culture" these are devices used by all kinds of people whether they are Japanese, Polynesian, Russian...basically pick any culture and they are using these devices. You can likewise give people these amenities without destroying their land and conquering their people, it is called trade. Europeans could have simply respected the right of indigenous people and traded with them, but greed got in the way. There could be a native american country on this earth today, where the people used modern conveniences but also kept their culture, but instead a bunch of white people rolled through and forced Anglo culture down their throats.

British people still drink afternoon tea, but they make it with modern conveniences. Muslims still make treks to Mecca and Medina, but they use modern transport. Traders still travel the silk road, but they use trucks rather than mules. Culture can stay intact while also adapting. Your post makes it sound like you either choose electricity and netflix, or you live in a tepee and eat twigs and berries. There is no room for middle ground.

 

[JGG]

If it makes me a racist to think that cold blooded murder is wrong, then call me a racist.

No, cold blooded murder is wrong. That's not what I'm talking about.

Of course, I would be just as angry if it were a white punk who had gunned down a black cop who was doing nothing more than pumping gas...and my heart would go out to the grieving family.

Are you sure?

If it is racist to decry a march that encourages violence with chants like "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon", then you'll just have to color me racist. And doing while being protected by police officers...well, there are no words.

That's fine too.

Of course, if a group of Ku Klux Klanners marched down the street chanting such garbage, and using the dreaded "n" word, I'm sure you'd have something negative to say about it. And so would I. And especially if they were doing it while being protected by a group of black cops...

Racism, my dear naive friend, works both ways...and a killing is a killing, whether it is a white cop killing a black suspect, or a black man gunning down a police officer. Either way, the result is a dead person, grieving families...and a lot of anger.

Yes, racism works both ways. Racism works in so many ways, it will make your head spin. But killing is wrong no matter who does it, but you have focused on the fact that this murderer was black, and made that his motive. If he had been killed by a white guy, would you be associating race with motive?

Now, if you want to "call me out" on that, feel free. I will continue to say that ALL lives matter. Black lives do not matter any more than any other lives.
I'm beginning to wonder if you are not a bit of a racist yourself....

I am a bit racist myself. Everyone is. But most of us try to be aware of our biases, and try to negate it. We care about being as non-racist as we can, and care that our views are not clouded by racism.

This is what started it:

Honestly, you remind me of those black people who are still mad because their ancestors were brought here as slaves. Even though all of that was over a very long time ago...and they have attained "equal rights" with all that entails. And now, we have them shooting and killing police officers for no apparent reason.

Do you see how this is unfair? How it is wrong? How it's racist?

Now remember, I'm asking you if it is acceptable for me to call you out on being racist. Not just in this thread, but in all of them. If you really don't care, then I will. You will quickly become the poster child for Racists Against Immigration, Racists for Trump, and Racists for Jesus. That is of course, if you really don't care.

But, I would really like you to say that you care. That it is important to you that people not think of you as a racist. But that also requires that you understand that what you've been going on about reflects a fundamentally racist attitude.

 

[TheBarrd]

Tell them what?

Tell them all about how racist it is, to think that a black punk shooting their husband and father to death is murder.
Tell them all about frying pigs in a blanket like bacon...and how these kinds of chants are not really racist at all.
Explain to them how it is that black lives matter...but their husband and father's life doesn't.
I'm sure they will be very interested to hear what you have to say.

Okay, you understand that this whole line of accusation is indeed very racist, right? And you basically just said you don't care if you're called a racist. So I will respectfully ask, if I start calling you out for being a racist on these threads, are you going to be offended? Are you going to deny being a racist when I call it out? Are you going to be that person on here?

I never have cared a whole awful lot about what other people think of me...and I'm a bit too old to start worrying about it now.
If it makes me a racist to think that shooting a man in cold blood is murder, then call me a racist. If it were the other way around...if a white punk had shot a black cop in the back while he was pumping gas, I'm sure you'd be screaming your head off about it. And so would I.
If I am a racist because I think that chants like "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" are just asking for trouble, or that it is incredibly stupid to be chanting such things while being escorted by police officers...some of them very possibly black...then color me racist.
But if it were a group of Ku Klux Klanners marching down the street in their ridiculous sheets, chanting some stupid phrase with the dreaded "n" word....and especially being protected by black police officers...I'm sure you'd have something negative to say about it. And so would I.

I really, really can't imagine that you really want that. So please, just stop for a moment and think about what it is you've been saying and the effect that will have on everything you say hereafter.

Again, I really, really can't imagine why you would think anyone else's opinion of me would mean anything to me at all. Especially some stranger on the internet! I've long been known to speak my mind, whether what I had to say was "politically correct" or not...(and it so seldom is.) My family would tell you that "if you don't want Mom's opinion, don't ask her...but she's likely to give it to you anyway"...
Do you not realize, my naive friend, that racism goes both ways? Did you really think it was all one sided? It's all the bad white people picking on the poor innocent black people, right?
Not so, my friend. There is plenty of "racism" on both sides.
I wish I had the answer, I really do. But killing one another is definitely not it.

 

[JGG]

Tell them all about how racist it is, to think that a black punk shooting their husband and father to death is murder.

It is murder. That is not the point.

Tell them all about frying pigs in a blanket like bacon...and how these kinds of chants are not really racist at all.

Those chants are also fundamentally wrong without question. However, do you recognize that they are not racist?

Explain to them how it is that black lives matter...but their husband and father's life doesn't.
I'm sure they will be very interested to hear what you have to say.

Nobody is saying that. I certainly am not. That guy who killed that sheriff will hopefully pay the price for his crime. But that doesn't mean that every other black person should pay a price because we can only see race.

I never have cared a whole awful lot about what other people think of me...and I'm a bit too old to start worrying about it now.

You're absolutely sure?

If it makes me a racist to think that shooting a man in cold blood is murder, then call me a racist. If it were the other way around...if a white punk had shot a black cop in the back while he was pumping gas, I'm sure you'd be screaming your head off about it. And so would I.
If I am a racist because I think that chants like "pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon" are just asking for trouble, or that it is incredibly stupid to be chanting such things while being escorted by police officers...some of them very possibly black...then color me racist.
But if it were a group of Ku Klux Klanners marching down the street in their ridiculous sheets, chanting some stupid phrase with the dreaded "n" word....and especially being protected by black police officers...I'm sure you'd have something negative to say about it. And so would I.

I think we can agree that I've covered this part already.

Again, I really, really can't imagine why you would think anyone else's opinion of me would mean anything to me at all. Especially some stranger on the internet! I've long been known to speak my mind, whether what I had to say was "politically correct" or not...(and it so seldom is.) My family would tell you that "if you don't want Mom's opinion, don't ask her...but she's likely to give it to you anyway"...
Do you not realize, my naive friend, that racism goes both ways? Did you really think it was all one sided? It's all the bad white people picking on the poor innocent black people, right?
Not so, my friend. There is plenty of "racism" on both sides.
I wish I had the answer, I really do. But killing one another is definitely not it.

Here's my deal then: If you don't care what other people think of you then as of now, you are officially a racist. If any person on here accuses you of being a racist, they are right. Calling you a racist would not be an insult, an ad-hominem, or anything. It is as fundamental a label of you as Christian, or American. At any point any person can say "Yeah, but you only think that because you're a racist." or something along those lines, and that will be a valid argument.

One last time. Are you sure you're okay with this? All you have to do is say "No, I'm not okay with that." and I will consider it an insult to call you a racist.

 

[TheBarrd]

Electricity, running water, a dishwasher etc. are not specific to "American culture" these are devices used by all kinds of people whether they are Japanese, Polynesian, Russian...basically pick any culture and they are using these devices. You can likewise give people these amenities without destroying their land and conquering their people, it is called trade. Europeans could have simply respected the right of indigenous people and traded with them, but greed got in the way. There could be a native american country on this earth today, where the people used modern conveniences but also kept their culture, but instead a bunch of white people rolled through and forced Anglo culture down their throats.

British people still drink afternoon tea, but they make it with modern conveniences. Muslims still make treks to Mecca and Medina, but they use modern transport. Traders still travel the silk road, but they use trucks rather than mules. Culture can stay intact while also adapting. Your post makes it sound like you either choose electricity and netflix, or you live in a tepee and eat twigs and berries. There is no room for middle ground.

It's a good point that you make...but you are about a hundred years too late in making it.
It's too late to complain about what happened all those years ago, and to continue to blame people today for it.
The fact is that when the Europeans got here, they (I really should say "we" since my Dad's family is Indian) were "living in teepees and eating twigs and berries". At the time, they wanted what they saw Europeans with...especially those metal weapons. Now, of course...in their comfy modern houses...they want to whine about their "lost culture"...when it really isn't "lost" at all. My Dad's family still keeps ancient traditions...but they do it because it is tradition, not because they have to. And there is no law that says that they can't practice their old religions...in fact, there is an amendment to our Constitution that basically says that everyone may worship as they see fit. You may have heard about it...
And complaining about living on the rez, when no one is forcing anyone to live anywhere they don't want to live in this day and age...well, it just doesn't sit well with me. Most of them choose to live there, and with loads of good reasons.
If the lady in question, or any other Indian wants to go back to their ancient ways, no one is stopping them. They can go back to living in teepees and eating twigs and berries if they like...but I wouldn't recommend it.
I'll bet most of them would look at you in horror if you were to suggest such a thing.

"Hanging around the fort" is such a better way of life...for us and for our children.

 

[TheBarrd]

It is murder. That is not the point.

That is the only point. It would still be murder no matter what color the shooter was or what color the victim was. The fact that this murder was fueled by racism is also a fact that cannot be denied.

Those chants are also fundamentally wrong without question. However, do you recognize that they are not racist?

I recognize that they are stupid, and that they incite violence.
The fact that they were marching under a huge banner reading "Black Lives Matter" makes them racist.
Now, don't get me wrong...I am not saying that black lives do not matter. But do they matter more than any other lives?
Couldn't we have a march under a banner that states "Lives Matter"...and black and white march together?
Now, that would be something I could get behind...

Nobody is saying that. I certainly am not. That guy who killed that sheriff will hopefully pay the price for his crime. But that doesn't mean that every other black person should pay a price because we can only see race.

Nobody ever said that every other black person should have to pay for that man's crime. But neither should he get any sympathy just because he's black.
And the question remains...did he do this just because the officer was white?
Who is really the racist, here?

You're absolutely sure?

That I really don't care about other people's opinion of me?
A very wise person once told me that a person's opinion is only worth as much as the person himself.
Before I would concern myself overly much about someone's opinion of me, that person would first have to earn my respect.
Some random person on the internet that I don't even know?
Please.

I think we can agree that I've covered this part already.

Really? Then do you admit that, if it had been a white shooter and a black victim, you would have been just as outraged as I am now?
Do you admit that if it were a KKK march, you would also call it "racist" and wonder why they would be trying to incite even more racial violence? And why our police officers...black or white...would protect such a thing?

Here's my deal then: If you don't care what other people think of you then as of now, you are officially a racist. If any person on here accuses you of being a racist, they are right. Calling you a racist would not be an insult, an ad-hominem, or anything. It is as fundamental a label of you as Christian, or American. At any point any person can say "Yeah, but you only think that because you're a racist." or something along those lines, and that will be a valid argument.

You can call me anything you like.
You won't mind terribly if I report you, though, will you?
Because that is a distinct possibility, should you decide to start goading or harrassing me.
Just sayin'...

One last time. Are you sure you're okay with this? All you have to do is say "No, I'm not okay with that." and I will consider it an insult to call you a racist.

I have no intention of getting involved in an insult war with you. There is no point in it.
What I said was that I don't care what you, or anyone else thinks of me. I did not say that I would be a willing victim. Sorry.
However, if I said that, every time I encounter you in these threads, I will call you the "n" word, I'll bet that you'd hit the report button in a quick heart beat...and I would not blame you. I doubt you really care much what I think of you...if you did you would not be trying to goad me into an argument. But if I were to make a habit of harrassing you every time I had the chance...I'm pretty sure you'd object.

 

[JGG]

That is the only point. It would still be murder no matter what color the shooter was or what color the victim was. The fact that this murder was fueled by racism is also a fact that cannot be denied.

Okay. So you're saying that this black guy shot that police officer because he was white? I should warn you that the sheriff's office has not officially disclosed, or perhaps even determined a motive. So when you say that this black man shot a white man because of race, where are you getting your information from.

I recognize that they are stupid, and that they incite violence.
The fact that they were marching under a huge banner reading "Black Lives Matter" makes them racist.

Firstly, this is new. You hadn't mentioned this before. How is the phrase about frying bacon racist?

Secondly, the phrase "Black Lives Matter" is not meant to be at the detriment to other people's lives. It doesn't say White Lives don't matter. These people put that as a reminder that their lives are as important as anyone else's. Because they don't think you believe that. They honestly think that the average American believes their lives are expendable.

Now, don't get me wrong...I am not saying that black lives do not matter.

Right. Have they said White Lives do not matter?

But do they matter more than any other lives?
Couldn't we have a march under a banner that states "Lives Matter"...and black and white march together?
Now, that would be something I could get behind...

Great. But that misses their message.

Nobody ever said that every other black person should have to pay for that man's crime. But neither should he get any sympathy just because he's black.

Who said he would?

And the question remains...did he do this just because the officer was white?

You have definitively stated that the murder was caused by racism. Now you're asking whether it's true or not?

Who is really the racist, here?

You are.

That I really don't care about other people's opinion of me?
A very wise person once told me that a person's opinion is only worth as much as the person himself.
Before I would concern myself overly much about someone's opinion of me, that person would first have to earn my respect.
Some random person on the internet that I don't even know?
Please.

Great.

Really? Then do you admit that, if it had been a white shooter and a black victim, you would have been just as outraged as I am now?

No. I would not be. I would be as dismayed and disgusted by the act as I am whenever a person murders another person regardless of race. That you are making this an issue of race demonstrates what I'm talking about.

Do you admit that if it were a KKK march, you would also call it "racist" and wonder why they would be trying to incite even more racial violence? And why our police officers...black or white...would protect such a thing?

This march that you described was protesting cops, not white people. Or am I wrong?

You can call me anything you like.
You won't mind terribly if I report you, though, will you?
Because that is a distinct possibility, should you decide to start goading or harrassing me.
Just sayin'...

Ah, but see that's the deal. You don't care what people say about you, so there should be no reason to report me. I won't have to goad on you or harass you, but I would still point out that you're a racist when you make comments about illegal immigration, or police, or whatever. I would also have to go in to that thread about illegal immigration and racism and point out that there probably is a connection, and use you as an example.

And it wouldn't just be me. Anyone could, and probably should do the same.

Unless you have a problem with that.

I have no intention of getting involved in an insult war with you. There is no point in it.
What I said was that I don't care what you, or anyone else thinks of me. I did not say that I would be a willing victim. Sorry.

I'm not specifically trying to insult you. But, I want you to feel insulted at the proposition of being called a racist. Is that not the case?

However, if I said that, every time I encounter you in these threads, I will call you the "n" word, I'll bet that you'd hit the report button in a quick heart beat...and I would not blame you.

Well that doesn't help things at all.

I would much prefer that you didn't, and yes I would report you pretty darn quick. That's a pretty racist word, and I certainly do not approve of you using it toward me, or anybody.

I would be accusing you of being a racist because of the things you've said, and your attitude toward people of other races.

You would be calling me the "n" word because you're judging me on my race.

But see, I am specifically asking your approval to call you a racist. If you don't care then I assume you approve.

I doubt you really care much what I think of you...if you did you would not be trying to goad me into an argument. But if I were to make a habit of harrassing you every time I had the chance...I'm pretty sure you'd object.

I'm not trying to harass you. I'm just trying to get you to think about this for a bit. It's not that I care what you think of me. I hope that you care what you think of yourself, and that you want to be the type of person that others can respect. I want to think that you want to try to treat people with respect, and not make judgments about them based on the color of their skin, or place of origin, or height, or weight or anything like that.

I really think you don't want to be accused of being a racist. So, just tell me that.

 

[Hetta]

Honestly, you remind me of those black people who are still mad because their ancestors were brought here as slaves. Even though all of that was over a very long time ago...and they have attained "equal rights" with all that entails. And now, we have them shooting and killing police officers for no apparent reason.

Here you are, sitting in a nice house, with electricity and running water, and flushing toilets...probably with a washing machine and a dryer, and perhaps even a dishwasher...sitting and typing on a computer...and complaining about how those awful white folks took away your culture. It's actually rather amusing.

It's been some time since anyone forced Indians to live on the rez. Many choose to do so, because, in these days, they can have decent housing at a fraction of the cost, and because they don't have to pay taxes. It's a win-win situation.

Now, you can go back to hunting and gathering if you want...live in a teepee without all those modern conveniences, chew on deer hide to make it soft enough to make clothes out of, and all the rest of it. No one is stopping you. If that is what you really want....

Some people just want something to be mad about...

what a cruel and nasty response from another "loving" Christian. You announce you are part native American, and yet obviously you hold that part of you in contempt. I'm glad you're amused by what white Americans did to your ancestors on the trail of tears. It's wonderful that genocide causes such big chuckles.

This is why I know I can't be around most Christians. You're a typical example of how many of them operate.

 

[Hetta]

That is swinging to the extreme. Either Throw everybody out or get everybody in.
I wonder why there is no space in between .

As the person who made the statement that crime and poverty comes from illegals.

 

[Armoured]

what a cruel and nasty response from another "loving" Christian. You announce you are part native American, and yet obviously you hold that part of you in contempt. I'm glad you're amused by what white Americans did to your ancestors on the trail of tears. It's wonderful that genocide causes such big chuckles.

This is why I know I can't be around Christians. You're a typical example of how they operate.

you wound me, madam.