Trump is right, fiscally it makes sense to build a wall blocking Mexico

[OGM]

Build an economic "wall"...change the penalties for illegally hiring a person that does not have the legal right to work in the country.

 

[Hank77]

Build an economic "wall"...change the penalties for illegally hiring a person that does not have the legal right to work in the country.

Do you know what the penalties are now?

 

[OGM]

Do you know what the penalties are now?

Yes...they are quite weak.

http://www.i9check.com/pri9penaltyamt.htm

"An employer found to have knowingly hired, recruited or referred for a fee, or continued to employ, an unauthorized alien for employment in the United States shall be subject to an order to cease and desist from the unlawful behavior and to pay a civil fine. An employer can be fined $250 - $2,000 per unauthorized alien with respect to whom the First offense 2 occurred before September 29, 1999, and not less than $275 and not exceeding $2,200, for each unauthorized alien with respect to whom the offense occurred on or after September 29, 1999.


An employer can be fined from $2,000 - $5,000 per unauthorized alien for a Second offense that occurred before September 29,1999, and between $2,200 - $5,500 if occurred on or after September 29, 1999. An employer can be fined from $3,000 - $10,000 per unauthorized alien for each Third or Subsequent offense that occurred before September 29, 1999, and between $3,300 - $11,000 if occurred on or after September 29, 1999. These penalties are not limited to employees for whom employers complete and retain I-9 files, but also cover employers’ use of contract personnel known to them to be unauthorized to work in the United States.


If an employer can demonstrate compliance with Form I-9 requirements, a good faith defense with respect to a charge of knowingly hiring an unauthorized alien will have been established unless the government can prove otherwise."

 

[Hank77]

If an employer can demonstrate compliance with Form I-9 requirements, a good faith defense with respect to a charge of knowingly hiring an unauthorized alien will have been established unless the government can prove otherwise."

Taking partial information from a company that does background checks is not always a good idea. Personally, I think $3,000-10,000 for each violation is quite a bit of money. Two illegals can mean $20,000.

We, a company that I worked for, in good faith relied on one of these companies. Supposedly they checked and matched SS# to the employee. Turns out they didn't, all they did was check the SS departments death data base. That does not mean anything, as we found out. We had an illegal who was using his relatives SS card. When we checked with the SS Depart. directly the name on the card did not match the birth date that he had given us. The card belonged to a 54 yr. old man and he was in his early twenties.
Good faith means actually checking everything you access to, to determine the validity of the information given. Call the SS Depart. directly and document that call.
Now good faith would include using E-Verify, which makes it a whole lot easier for businesses to check legal working status.
http://www.uscis.gov/e-verify

 

[OGM]

Taking partial information from a company that does background checks is not always a good idea. Personally, I think $3,000-10,000 for each violation is quite a bit of money. Two illegals can mean $20,000.

Actually that is small for a big company. I was thinking more like:

1. Mandatory E-Verify check
2. First Offense-$25,000 fine
3. Second Offense-$50,000 fine
4. Each subseqent Offense-$100,000 fine

People would think first before doing hiring illegals. I believe without income...there would be far less illegals wanting to stay in the country.

Good faith means actually checking everything you access to, to determine the validity of the information given. Call the SS Depart. directly and document that call.
Now good faith would include using E-Verify, which makes it a whole lot easier for businesses to check legal working status.
http://www.uscis.gov/e-verify

E-Verify is the way to do it.

 

[Hank77]

People would think first before doing hiring illegals. I believe without income...there would be far less illegals wanting to stay in the country.

I think that it can be tricky when it comes to much higher fines. We do want to punish the company but we not want to punish the legal employees. If the fines are covered by laying off legal workers or the company is put out of business it would defeat the purpose.

 

[Rationalt]

I think that it can be tricky when it comes to much higher fines. We do want to punish the company but we not want to punish the legal employees. If the fines are covered by laying off legal workers or the company is put out of business it would defeat the purpose.

Yeah, targeting only companies is not practical.

 

[wing2000]

Yeah, targeting only companies is not practical.

It's a lot more effective and practical than building a 1900 mile DMZ zone.

 

[JustOneWay]

Yeah, targeting only companies is not practical.

It is the base of combating illegal immigration. Start by taking away the reason they come....it sounds like the most practical thing to start with.

Of course with the massive off the books job market in America, even finding employees who hire illegal immigrants is a difficult task.

 

[OGM]

I think that it can be tricky when it comes to much higher fines. We do want to punish the company but we not want to punish the legal employees. If the fines are covered by laying off legal workers or the company is put out of business it would defeat the purpose.

The companies would not tend to hire the illegals because of the high penalty. I did not even mention criminal penalties that could be implemented. When all job applicants an E-Verify would be used. If that came back okay the employer would be determined to have made a good faith effort. To be honest with you, it seems that all of this could be easily solved without hurting legal workers at all.

With no incentive to work in the U.S. illegally, far less people would try to move across the border without documentation.

 

[Rationalt]

It's a lot more effective and practical than building a 1900 mile DMZ zone.

Big companies don't employ illegals, as Far as I know.Contract jobs will be different though.They cannot be controlled by law since they (the contractors) are too numerous to track down.

 

[Hank77]

With no incentive to work in the U.S. illegally, far less people would try to move across the border without documentation.

I agree with you and have used the same argument. The problem is that the fines/laws that are already on the books have only in very recent years been implemented and the illegal workers were not always deported.
2011, Tyson's fines totaled around 100 million, they settled out of court for 6 million. 2015, A Washington state fruit grower settled for 2.25 million.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/washing...with-2-25-million-immigration-fine-1433442348

Personally I don't have the heart to deport families that have lived here for years with no criminal record, they pay taxes and Social Security/Medicare, their children were born and grew up here. Frankly there are thousands of them that have been better Americans than many who's families have been here for generations.

The sole reason that I believe we need a border fence is to do more to keep out drugs, drug cartels, violent criminals, and to stop the coyotes,, that are working for the cartels, taking thousands of dollars from desperate people and then sometimes killing them or leaving them in the desert to die of thirst.

 

[OGM]

Even now...there are more tunnels under the current border than holes in a piece of Swiss cheese. The cost of building and maintain such a fence seems to be very expensive.

I think illegal crossings could switch to trucks and other methods.

 

[Hank77]

I think illegal crossings could switch to trucks and other methods.

That has been done for a long time now. A fence cuts down on where trucks have the ability to cross, as has been the case where even a short fence exists now.
It won't stop the need for border patrol and searching vehicles for contraband and people.

It's been estimated that the cost each year, after the fence is built, would cost about 25% of what the cost of illegal immigrates and the drug trade is costing the taxpayer every year now.

 

[lasthero]

That has been done for a long time now. A fence cuts down on where trucks have the ability to cross, as has been the case where even a short fence exists now.
It won't stop the need for border patrol and searching vehicles for contraband and people.

It's been estimated that the cost each year, after the fence is built, would cost about 25% of what the cost of illegal immigrates and the drug trade is costing the taxpayer every year now.

Who estimated that?

 

[Hank77]

Who estimated that?

Sorry, I don't remember the links now to the estimates but they were done by government agencies, etc.
There are some links in this thread and a google search will turn them up, too. You'll find the estimates and the figures for what the open border has been costly us each year. Just the war on drugs is in the billions.