border crossings lowest in 50 years as of Feb 2019 - what a difference to March 16, 2021

[BobRyan]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/as-...ild-wall-border-crossings-at-record-lows.html

• "As President Donald Trump declares a national emergency to build a border wall, crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border are at their lowest levels in nearly 50 years.
• There were 303,916 apprehensions along the southern border during the 2017 fiscal year, the lowest level since 1971."

And then??

Illegal Border Crossings Near Two-Decade High, Mayorkas Says

"WASHINGTON—The U.S. is on pace to see the largest number of migrants crossing its southern border illegally in two decades, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement Tuesday addressing growing concern about the government’s response."

Can't be an issue with an open-borders policy that's for sure. or... is it?

 

[grasping the after wind]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/as-...ild-wall-border-crossings-at-record-lows.html

• "As President Donald Trump declares a national emergency to build a border wall, crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border are at their lowest levels in nearly 50 years.
• There were 303,916 apprehensions along the southern border during the 2017 fiscal year, the lowest level since 1971."

And then??

Illegal Border Crossings Near Two-Decade High, Mayorkas Says

"WASHINGTON—The U.S. is on pace to see the largest number of migrants crossing its southern border illegally in two decades, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement Tuesday addressing growing concern about the government’s response."

Can't be an issue with an open-borders policy that's for sure. or... is it?

Meanwhile the northern border is closed .

 

[pescador]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/as-...ild-wall-border-crossings-at-record-lows.html

• "As President Donald Trump declares a national emergency to build a border wall, crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border are at their lowest levels in nearly 50 years.
• There were 303,916 apprehensions along the southern border during the 2017 fiscal year, the lowest level since 1971."

And then??

Illegal Border Crossings Near Two-Decade High, Mayorkas Says

"WASHINGTON—The U.S. is on pace to see the largest number of migrants crossing its southern border illegally in two decades, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement Tuesday addressing growing concern about the government’s response."

Can't be an issue with an open-borders policy that's for sure. or... is it?

“Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

If you were a refugee from extreme poverty and crime, would you have come to trump's America or to President Biden's?

 

[grasping the after wind]

“Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

If you were a refugee from extreme poverty and crime, would you have come to trump's America or to President Biden's?

Neither Trump nor Biden own any Americas. AFAIK Chicago, LA, NY, San Fran, etc. all are already in America. Where should the refugees from those places head to to escape the extreme poverty and crime?

 

[Halbhh]

When you dam up a small river with a huge dam.

And then it rains for a year or 2.

And then you finally open the flood gates because the water is so high...then water does come out in a big way, for a while.

For a while.

Because it was dammed up.

(Trump changed from letting only a small amount through in 2019 to entirely blocking all asylum seekers from the southern border starting April 2020 through the end of his term)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/as-...ild-wall-border-crossings-at-record-lows.html

• "As President Donald Trump declares a national emergency to build a border wall, crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border are at their lowest levels in nearly 50 years.
• There were 303,916 apprehensions along the southern border during the 2017 fiscal year, the lowest level since 1971."

And then??

Illegal Border Crossings Near Two-Decade High, Mayorkas Says

"WASHINGTON—The U.S. is on pace to see the largest number of migrants crossing its southern border illegally in two decades, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement Tuesday addressing growing concern about the government’s response."

Can't be an issue with an open-borders policy that's for sure. or... is it?

 

[Halbhh]

Meanwhile the northern border is closed .

It should not be.

 

[cow451]

Meanwhile the northern border is closed .

That's because they don't want to come here, LOL.

 

[pescador]

Neither Trump nor Biden own any Americas. AFAIK Chicago, LA, NY, San Fran, etc. all are already in America. Where should the refugees from those places head to to escape the extreme poverty and crime?

The thread is about border crossings. Why are you changing the subject?

 

[NotreDame]

“Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

If you were a refugee from extreme poverty and crime, would you have come to trump's America or to President Biden's?

What does the verse have to do with immigration policy? The verse you quoted isn’t an immigration manifesto. Neither did Jesus speak the phrase for the purpose of guiding immigration policy.

 

[Halbhh]

What does the verse have to do with immigration policy? The verse you quoted isn’t an immigration manifesto. Neither did Jesus speak the phrase for the purpose of guiding immigration policy.

While we could point to how Joseph and Mary and Jesus immigrated to Egypt, and then later back to Israel, here's a key command of God (key because it is often repeated in quite a few ways, probably a dozen times in the Old Testament):

I'll just point to the direct form:
Deuteronomy 10:19 So you also must love the foreigner, since you yourselves were foreigners in the land of Egypt.

The "love them as yourself" is even more clear:

Leviticus 19:34 You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

I've only give a couple of the old testament verses, though that should be enough.

Christ said:
12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

As Christians, we are to do as He says and seek to enter the "narrow gate" even if it is not the most popular one at some moment or place or time.

 

[pescador]

What does the verse have to do with immigration policy? The verse you quoted isn’t an immigration manifesto. Neither did Jesus speak the phrase for the purpose of guiding immigration policy.

If you don't understand the relevance of “Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest" to the desire for immigration to a better life, what else can I say?

Here is the explanation of why you are missing the meaning... "At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will." Matthew 11:25-26

 

[BobRyan]

“Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28

If you were a refugee from extreme poverty and crime, would you have come to trump's America or to President Biden's?

If I was interested in legally entering another country - either one would do.

Maybe I am funny that way - but obeying the laws of the nations I enter is a big deal to me. And in Romans 13 scripture insists that I follow that path.

 

[BobRyan]

While we could point to how Joseph and Mary and Jesus immigrated to Egypt, and then later back to Israel,

Indeed - did they go to Egypt against the laws or in compliance with the laws of that nation.

This thread is not about "allowing legal immigration" the numbers in the OP are about illegal activity at the border.

 

[Halbhh]

Indeed - did they go to Egypt against the laws or in compliance with the laws of that nation.

This is not about "allowing legal immigration" the numbers in the OP are about illegal activity at the border.

We should not look to worldly secular government to tell us what is right and wrong when God's laws directly address the issue. We are under God's laws, even though a government might do wrong. While we have to pay taxes to Caesar, we don't have to worship Caesar.

But, we are blessed that in this democracy, we can peacefully advocate for better laws though, and elect new representatives and new presidents.

 

[Hank77]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/15/as-...ild-wall-border-crossings-at-record-lows.html

• "As President Donald Trump declares a national emergency to build a border wall, crossings at the U.S.-Mexico border are at their lowest levels in nearly 50 years.
• There were 303,916 apprehensions along the southern border during the 2017 fiscal year, the lowest level since 1971."

And then??

Illegal Border Crossings Near Two-Decade High, Mayorkas Says

"WASHINGTON—The U.S. is on pace to see the largest number of migrants crossing its southern border illegally in two decades, Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas said in a statement Tuesday addressing growing concern about the government’s response."

Can't be an issue with an open-borders policy that's for sure. or... is it?

They said the border is closed don't come now.
But then I heard that they are only letting unaccompanied minors cross the border right now. Am I wrong about that?

 

[Aldebaran]

If you don't understand the relevance of “Come to me, all you that are weary and are carrying heavy burdens, and I will give you rest" to the desire for immigration to a better life, what else can I say?

Who was it who said the words, "Come to me"? Was it joe biden inviting people to cross the border into America, or Jesus Christ inviting people in general to Himself?

Here is the explanation of why you are missing the meaning... "At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your gracious will." Matthew 11:25-26

If you don't feel you belong in that category, perhaps you can explain the relevance as you see it relating to what we're discussing.

 

[BobRyan]

They said the border is closed don't come now.
But then I heard that they are only letting unaccompanied minors cross the border right now. Am I wrong about that?

Mexico is apparently demanding that the U.S. stop baiting illegals to cross the border with statements of benefits and luring them in.

Here is a March 16 update from Texas -

Here’s What You Need To Know About Immigration At The Texas Border Under President Biden

 

[Hank77]

Mexico is apparently demanding that the U.S. stop baiting illegals to cross the border with statements of benefits and luring them in.

Here is a March 16 update from Texas -

Here’s What You Need To Know About Immigration At The Texas Border Under President Biden

Thanks, this article is very helpful.

 

[NotreDame]

While we could point to how Joseph and Mary and Jesus immigrated to Egypt, and then later back to Israel, here's a key command of God (key because it is often repeated in quite a few ways, probably a dozen times in the Old Testament):

I'll just point to the direct form:
Deuteronomy 10:19 So you also must love the foreigner, since you yourselves were foreigners in the land of Egypt.

The "love them as yourself" is even more clear:

Leviticus 19:34 You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself, for you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

I've only give a couple of the old testament verses, though that should be enough.

Christ said:
12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 “Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. 14 For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few."

As Christians, we are to do as He says and seek to enter the "narrow gate" even if it is not the most popular one at some moment or place or time.

While we could point to how Joseph and Mary and Jesus immigrated to Egypt

So what? The inclusion of this account in the Bible wasn’t to argue for open borders or an open immigration policy, or for any kind of immigration policy. This is a fact which means nothing for your point as this account is told in the Bible.

I'll just point to the direct form:
Deuteronomy 10:19 So you also must love the foreigner, since you yourselves were foreigners in the land of Egypt.

Unpersuasive. There are several unstated assumptions one has to make to conclude the above verse says anything about A) Immigration policy and B) a particular kind of immigration policy.

There is no mandate of how to specifically show this “love.” None. You assume the expression of this love is to be an immigration policy and of a certain kind of immigration policy. But the text of the verse says nothing supporting this assumption.

Second, given the context, the command is to the forigeinger already physically present within the geographical and jurisdictional lands of Israel/Judah. After all, the parallel was to the Jews while they physically present in the geographical and jurisdictional land of Egypt.

“19So show your love for the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20”

Third, the Hebrew used for the subject matter of the person to receive the love is “hag·ger” from “gur.” The word means “a sojourner.” A “temporary dweller” a “new comer” as opposed to “homeborn.” Again, some who wasn’t born in the land but traveled to the land and is present in the land, present in a foreign land. The verse is referring to an alien already physically within Israel’s/Judah’s borders.

The verse isn’t dictating whether to have a policy allowing, restricting, or denying entry of an alien, foreigner, into a foreign nation.

The "love them as yourself" is even more clear:

Leviticus 19:34 You must treat the foreigner living among you

Do you know what is “even more clear” than what you’ve highlighted? Have a guess?

Yes, the phrase “LIVING AMONG YOU.” Translation, God is discussing how to treat the forgeiner ALREADY in the land “among” the Jews. This verse says nothing about the gates of access. Nothing!

God’s command is A) if by some means a foreign is “living among you” then B.) treat them a specific way. The verse IS NOT commenting upon whether there IS to be a policy allowing aliens to enter or denying entry.

I've only give a couple of the old testament verses, though that should be enough.

No, you’ve butchered a plain text reading of those verses to bend them to conform to your left-leaning, progressive ideology regarding immigration policy. You’ve ignored the context of an alien already physically present inside the land, and ignore the very words do “living among you” which logically screams ALREADY there, as opposed to a verse that says “those not living among you but seek refuge in your lands.”

As Christians, we are to do as He says and seek to enter the "narrow gate" even if it is not the most popular one at some moment or place or time.

Jesus was contrasting metaphorically the “gates” of heaven with the “gates” hell. Jesus wasn’t espousing an immigration policy. Although, given your demonstrated penchant for creative, interpretation of the text, I’m sure you’d say Jesus was espousing an eternal and spiritual immigration policy.

 

[Halbhh]

So what? The inclusion of this account in the Bible wasn’t to argue for open borders or an open immigration policy, or for any kind of immigration policy. This is a fact which means nothing for your point as this account is told in the Bible.



Unpersuasive. There are several unstated assumptions one has to make to conclude the above verse says anything about A) Immigration policy and B) a particular kind of immigration policy.

There is no mandate of how to specifically show this “love.” None. You assume the expression of this love is to be an immigration policy and of a certain kind of immigration policy. But the text of the verse says nothing supporting this assumption.

Second, given the context, the command is to the forigeinger already physically present within the geographical and jurisdictional lands of Israel/Judah. After all, the parallel was to the Jews while they physically present in the geographical and jurisdictional land of Egypt.

“19So show your love for the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20”

Third, the Hebrew used for the subject matter of the person to receive the love is “hag·ger” from “gur.” The word means “a sojourner.” A “temporary dweller” a “new comer” as opposed to “homeborn.” Again, some who wasn’t born in the land but traveled to the land and is present in the land, present in a foreign land. The verse is referring to an alien already physically within Israel’s/Judah’s borders.

The verse isn’t dictating whether to have a policy allowing, restricting, or denying entry of an alien, foreigner, into a foreign nation.



Do you know what is “even more clear” than what you’ve highlighted? Have a guess?

Yes, the phrase “LIVING AMONG YOU.” Translation, God is discussing how to treat the forgeiner ALREADY in the land “among” the Jews. This verse says nothing about the gates of access. Nothing!

God’s command is A) if by some means a foreign is “living among you” then B.) treat them a specific way. The verse IS NOT commenting upon whether there IS to be a policy allowing aliens to enter or denying entry.



No, you’ve butchered a plain text reading of those verses to bend them to conform to your left-leaning, progressive ideology regarding immigration policy. You’ve ignored the context of an alien already physically present inside the land, and ignore the very words do “living among you” which logically screams ALREADY there, as opposed to a verse that says “those not living among you but seek refuge in your lands.”



Jesus was contrasting metaphorically the “gates” of heaven with the “gates” hell. Jesus wasn’t espousing an immigration policy. Although, given your demonstrated penchant for creative, interpretation of the text, I’m sure you’d say Jesus was espousing an eternal and spiritual immigration policy.

I read all your post. It might help to find out or know I'm not at all "left" or such, but more conservative libertarian if you want a closer category (but we should remember that people are precious, and no one is really well described by that kind of political/social economics category in the end; it's a crude category).

Simply, perhaps it's best for now if we simply find what we can agree on as a key basic truth -- I bet we agree that we are to bear the fruit Christ said we are to bear in John chapter 15, and we both think that His Words are true.

We all kinda know in our hearts that we are to welcome the stranger, don't we -- we've probably all heard that strong message from our Lord in Matthew chapter 25 at some point, or many times even.

While none of us are in control of the secular worldly government, we can here in this nation advocate for it to be fair to the desperate individuals some of whom are honestly fleeing death threats that can follow them even into Mexico it is reputed.

I simply know that our Lord would not hold me guiltless if I said it would be a good policy to just block them all and keep them out of our nation regardless of individual situations, and prevent them from finding shelter and safety.

I think the traditional, old American way of screening asylum seekers and admitting those truly fleeing real danger is a good way, the traditional way of America.

On that, you could rightly call me a traditionalist.

Hope you have a good night!