Zion's War On Christendom

[Lovely Lane]

Why just pick on Jews though - all secularists or non believers etc are not friends to Christ- and that was all of us too had it not been for the Grace of God. I do slightly wonder though if folk go too far down the road re Judaism whether they end up, as some Christians have in the past, basically ignoring or taking no interest in the OT since that is clearly the story of the Jewish people and their up and down relationship with God.

I'm not picking on anyone, I'm just a follower of Christ Jesus.

 

[Bethesda]

oh geez, was it, then what happened? Does the date of celebration on Dec 25 ring a bell?

yes I of course realise that if Judaism was sufficient then God would not have in Christ have needed to make a sacrifice once for all to save us - but clearly we still study and learn from the OT and don't just say thats Judaism - I think its a fair point, as there have been Christian sects that have wanted to junk the OT as nothing to do with and with nothing to teach Christians (some from less than honourable motives)

 

[miamited]

Ted, you don't mean the State of Israel do you? (or do you?)

Isn't it in Gal 6:15-16 where Paul calls those 'in Christ Jesus' the 'Israel of God' which of course is the Church. (Christians)

Hi LL,

Well, I would contend that you haven't rightly divided the word of God.

Galatians 6:11-18
See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand! Those who want to make a good impression outwardlyhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-20 are trying to compel you to be circumcised.http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-21 The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecutedhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-22 for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised obey the law,http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-23 yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-25 through whichhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#fn-descriptionAnchor-b the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything;http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-27 what counts is a new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the markshttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-29 of Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christhttp://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-30 be with your spirit,http://www.biblestudytools.com/galatians/6.html#cr-descriptionAnchor-31 brothers. Amen.

What I understand Paul saying in his writing here to the Galatians is that it doesn't matter whether one is circumcised or uncircumcised. What matters is that the person be born again and this applies to both the christian and the 'the Israel of God'. I don't see that he is in any way instructing that this 'the Israel of God' is to be understood as the church supplanting Israel. Rather I find that he is saying that it is now the same for both the circumcised and the uncircumcised; both the Jew and Gentile that what God is seeking is those who are born of His Spirit.

He says, "Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. Not supplanting nor holding one over the other, but clearly teaching that both those who claim to be a part of Israel by birth and those who claim salvation through some adoption of the new covenant, must be born again.

This has always been my cry to those who continue to walk around claiming, "I'm a christian!" "I go to church and worship on Sunday with a bunch of folks who are worshipping God, and so I am therefore going to receive the promise of God's eternal life." No!!! No you are only going to receive God's promise of eternal life, if, just as Paul is writing to the Galatians here, you have been born again. Born of the Spirit of the living God. Names don't mean anything.

As a matter of fact, if we turn and read Jesus admonition to his disciples that on that day of God's judgment there will be many crying out, "Lord, Lord. Did we not drive out demons in your name and perform great miracles in your name?" I find that that whole line of folks are going to be people who, when they lived upon the earth, identified themselves with Jesus and the people of the church. But, Jesus turns to them and says to them, "I never knew you. Away from me you workers of iniquity!" Those people that he turns and says that to walked around all puffed up that they were 'christians'.

Maybe I'm reading more into the account than others do, but I can't hardly imagine people who have been resurrected to judgment standing before Jesus and proclaiming of all the good works they did upon the earth in the name of Jesus; in his very name - that they didn't identify themselves as christians when they lived on the earth.

God will not forsake Israel forever, and yes I am referring to the very land upon which the nation of Israel rests today. As a matter of fact, when you read the final chapters of the Revelation, you will find that all of the activity of the last days will be all about and around Israel - the nation that sits on the western shore of the Mediteranian Sea. Jesus is going to descend and plant his feet firmly upon the land of the Mount of Olives in the land of Israel on the western shore of the Mediteranian Sea.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Tractor1]

Isn't it in Gal 6:15-16 where Paul calls those 'in Christ Jesus' the 'Israel of God' which of course is the Church. (Christians)

Even though some assert the Church is the "true Israel" the facts of Scripture don't support them. The writers of the New Testament consistently make a distinction between the two. The term Israel is used over seventy times in the New Testament, and in each case referencing ethinic Israel.

Let's look closer at a specific Scripture text often quoted as proof of the assertion.

"For neither is circumcsion anything, nor uncircumcsion, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:15-16).

The false conclusion couldn't be based on anything other than a mistranslation of the word "and" (the word that appears before the term "Israel of God"). In order for this type of theology to be Scriptural it would have to set aside the primary meaning of "and" in favor of the secondary meaning of "even." As a reminder I will include a basic, but often neglected hermeneutical principle. "In the absence of compelling exegetical and theological considerations, avoid the rarer grammatical usages when the common ones make good sense" (S. L. Johnson, Paul and the Israel of God, Essays in Honor of J Dwight Pentecost pps 181-82).

Everyone is in agreement that "them" refers to believing Gentiles and using "even" makes the passage read, "mercy be upon them, even the Israel of God." This translation essentially equates believing Gentiles with the Israel of God, but the intepretation is grammatically weak and fails to take into consideration the other uses of Israel in the New Testament. Also, it doesn't deal with the entire context of Paul's discussion with the Galatians. (Verse 16) concludes a letter that warns against Judaizers. The Church was made up of both Jews and Gentiles, but Judaizers were attempting to persuade the Gentiles of the need for circumcsion in order to be saved. Needless to say Paul was in opposition to this teaching, pointing out that everyone was saved the same way, either Jew (the circumcsion) or Gentile (called the uncircumcsion). When he comes to the end of his letter he pronounces a blessing upon those same two groups. Therefore, the word "them" refers to believing Gentiles and the "Israel of God" refers to the believing Jews who were in the Galatian Church.

Examination of (Gal. 6:16) and the rest of the New Testament shows there's no evidence that "Israel" is ever used for anything other than the entire nation or the believing Jews within the nation.



In Christ,
Tracey

 

[miamited]

Hi Tracey,

Yes, I believe that explanation pretty well sums it up that Paul was by no means intending to supplant Judaism with the 'church'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[miamited]

However, let us all be mindful that the Scriptures declare that in the final days of the last days, all the nations will rise up against Israel and so the thinking that is expressed on this thread against Jews and 'Zionists' (whatever that really means) is clearly the precursor of such an event.

I envision a day, and maybe not too far off, that the US, if it were to still exist as a nation, will be among those nations. Our president and our people will one day cease to support Israel. Whether it be because of some 'unfairness' that we perceive in their actions toward their neighbors or some other issue, our nation will be counted among the 'all' of the Scriptures. Our nation will surely stand with all the other nations in the valley of Migeddo and draw weapons against Israel.

God bless you.
IN Christ, Ted

 

[SilenceInMotion]

However, let us all be mindful that the Scriptures declare that in the final days of the last days, all the nations will rise up against Israel and so the thinking that is expressed on this thread against Jews and 'Zionists' (whatever that really means) is clearly the precursor of such an event.

Yes, when the Zionist anti-Christ arises and turns everything on itself.

 

[wannabeadesigirl]

And to those you wrote about, "those who seek to please God in the way they know best (basically follow love the lord your God and love your neighbor)". They better do more than that, doing ones best isn't a qualifier to His Kingdom. Wouldn't you agree?

I don't have an orthodox understanding of qualification of the kingdom. God gave us commands to love him, and to love our neighbors. In doing so we follow the 10 commandments. I understand that belief in Jesus is our way to God, however I can't say that a man who died thousands of years ago, having never heard the name Jesus, or seen a Jew for that matter, would've been sent to hell.

I'm of the opinion that God has put what truth of his is necessary to know him completely into each culture. Jesus is the completion of that truth, the final piece to the puzzle, but I am loath to say that ignorance of Jesus is what sends you to hell.

So it is my opinion that a Jew who is living each of the laws found in the OT, loves God, Loves his neighbor and listens to what God tells him to do is a son of God, and only missing the final puzzle piece to make it all make sense, that is Jesus.

 

[SilenceInMotion]

So it is my opinion that a Jew who is living each of the laws found in the OT, loves God, Loves his neighbor and listens to what God tells him to do is a son of God, and only missing the final puzzle piece to make it all make sense, that is Jesus.

The Church has declared that those who do not know of Jesus may still be saved if they follow natural law.
But it's highly unlikely that there are many Jews who haven't heard of Jesus. After all, practicing Jews shun away the cross to their children, and they grow up hardly even taking a peek into the New Testament. I have spoken to a Jew who was actually surprised at how Jewish the New Testament was because it was forbidden in his adolescence.

They grow up not knowing much about Jesus except the statement that he is a heretic, and when they get older, have no inclination to him. They become indoctrinated into orthodox Judaism long before they even have the freedom of exploring Christ.

For that reason, it is not wrong to say that some of them, if they are practice worship of God and are not secular, may be saved nonetheless. However, anti-Christian Jews push the agenda. They put their salvation at stake when they transgress against the Lord.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Hi LL,

Well, I would contend that you haven't rightly divided the word of God.

Galatians 6:11-18
See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand! Those who want to make a good impression outwardly are trying to compel you to be circumcised. The only reason they do this is to avoid being persecuted for the cross of Christ. Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh. May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation. Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers. Amen.

What I understand Paul saying in his writing here to the Galatians is that it doesn't matter whether one is circumcised or uncircumcised. What matters is that the person be born again and this applies to both the christian and the 'the Israel of God'. I don't see that he is in any way instructing that this 'the Israel of God' is to be understood as the church supplanting Israel. Rather I find that he is saying that it is now the same for both the circumcised and the uncircumcised; both the Jew and Gentile that what God is seeking is those who are born of His Spirit.

He says, "Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God. Not supplanting nor holding one over the other, but clearly teaching that both those who claim to be a part of Israel by birth and those who claim salvation through some adoption of the new covenant, must be born again.

This has always been my cry to those who continue to walk around claiming, "I'm a christian!" "I go to church and worship on Sunday with a bunch of folks who are worshipping God, and so I am therefore going to receive the promise of God's eternal life." No!!! No you are only going to receive God's promise of eternal life, if, just as Paul is writing to the Galatians here, you have been born again. Born of the Spirit of the living God. Names don't mean anything.

As a matter of fact, if we turn and read Jesus admonition to his disciples that on that day of God's judgment there will be many crying out, "Lord, Lord. Did we not drive out demons in your name and perform great miracles in your name?" I find that that whole line of folks are going to be people who, when they lived upon the earth, identified themselves with Jesus and the people of the church. But, Jesus turns to them and says to them, "I never knew you. Away from me you workers of iniquity!" Those people that he turns and says that to walked around all puffed up that they were 'christians'.

Maybe I'm reading more into the account than others do, but I can't hardly imagine people who have been resurrected to judgment standing before Jesus and proclaiming of all the good works they did upon the earth in the name of Jesus; in his very name - that they didn't identify themselves as christians when they lived on the earth.

God will not forsake Israel forever, and yes I am referring to the very land upon which the nation of Israel rests today. As a matter of fact, when you read the final chapters of the Revelation, you will find that all of the activity of the last days will be all about and around Israel - the nation that sits on the western shore of the Mediteranian Sea. Jesus is going to descend and plant his feet firmly upon the land of the Mount of Olives in the land of Israel on the western shore of the Mediteranian Sea.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

Thanks Ted, guess we will just have to disagree.

 

[Lovely Lane]

Even though some assert the Church is the "true Israel" the facts of Scripture don't support them. The writers of the New Testament consistently make a distinction between the two. The term Israel is used over seventy times in the New Testament, and in each case referencing ethinic Israel.

Let's look closer at a specific Scripture text often quoted as proof of the assertion.

"For neither is circumcsion anything, nor uncircumcsion, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel of God" (Gal. 6:15-16).

The false conclusion couldn't be based on anything other than a mistranslation of the word "and" (the word that appears before the term "Israel of God"). In order for this type of theology to be Scriptural it would have to set aside the primary meaning of "and" in favor of the secondary meaning of "even." As a reminder I will include a basic, but often neglected hermeneutical principle. "In the absence of compelling exegetical and theological considerations, avoid the rarer grammatical usages when the common ones make good sense" (S. L. Johnson, Paul and the Israel of God, Essays in Honor of J Dwight Pentecost pps 181-82).

Everyone is in agreement that "them" refers to believing Gentiles and using "even" makes the passage read, "mercy be upon them, even the Israel of God." This translation essentially equates believing Gentiles with the Israel of God, but the intepretation is grammatically weak and fails to take into consideration the other uses of Israel in the New Testament. Also, it doesn't deal with the entire context of Paul's discussion with the Galatians. (Verse 16) concludes a letter that warns against Judaizers. The Church was made up of both Jews and Gentiles, but Judaizers were attempting to persuade the Gentiles of the need for circumcsion in order to be saved. Needless to say Paul was in opposition to this teaching, pointing out that everyone was saved the same way, either Jew (the circumcsion) or Gentile (called the uncircumcsion). When he comes to the end of his letter he pronounces a blessing upon those same two groups. Therefore, the word "them" refers to believing Gentiles and the "Israel of God" refers to the believing Jews who were in the Galatian Church.

Examination of (Gal. 6:16) and the rest of the New Testament shows there's no evidence that "Israel" is ever used for anything other than the entire nation or the believing Jews within the nation.



In Christ,
Tracey

As I said to Ted, Thank you too Tracey, we will just have to disagree on this one.

 

[Lovely Lane]

I don't have an orthodox understanding of qualification of the kingdom. God gave us commands to love him, and to love our neighbors. In doing so we follow the 10 commandments. I understand that belief in Jesus is our way to God, however I can't say that a man who died thousands of years ago, having never heard the name Jesus, or seen a Jew for that matter, would've been sent to hell.

I'm of the opinion that God has put what truth of his is necessary to know him completely into each culture. Jesus is the completion of that truth, the final piece to the puzzle, but I am loath to say that ignorance of Jesus is what sends you to hell.

So it is my opinion that a Jew who is living each of the laws found in the OT, loves God, Loves his neighbor and listens to what God tells him to do is a son of God, and only missing the final puzzle piece to make it all make sense, that is Jesus.

Yeah, well I had the same idea at one time, about what about the guy who never heard of Jesus. Then I learned of Jesus ministering to the dead when taken down from the cross and placed in the tomb. All of those souls who accepted Jesus were released from hell. And in case someone eludes the spoken Word these days, they always get a fair judgement. If we can not believe that God is not fair than why believe at all.

Thanks for sharing your idea of the Jew being son of God, I don't see it that way. Why not just say all good people go to heaven?

Looks like I derailed the thread by asking questions concerning theology. Sorry about that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by SilenceInMotion The Catholic Church hid many Jews during the Holocaust, many of them right in the Vatican itself. What do you expect the Church to do? If the world doesn't like the Church being in charge, then so be it- live without it.
There is a largely ignored fact that is stated in Scripture, and it's if you turn your back to God, then don't expect Him to be at your front.

Jewry plays Gentiles like a fiddle, and obviously, Gentiles seem to like it because they say and do just about anything to let it continue. You cannot trust Zion, and you cannot trust those such as yourself who go around calling everyone Nazis who reveal it.

Almost similar to the word "jewelry".

When did the word "Jew" come into being?
This site seems to answer that question, but how reliable it is, I don't know. Thoughts?

History of God's Holy Bible and the so-called Jews

The Etymology of the Word "Jew"

In his classic Facts are Facts, Jewish historian, researcher and scholar Benjamin Freedman writes:

The present pronunciation of the word "Jew" in modern English is a development of recent times. In the English language today the "J" in Jew" is pronounced like the "J" in the English "justice," "jolly," and "jump." This is the case only since the 18th century. Prior to the 18th century the "J" in "Jew" was pronounced exactly like the "Y" in the English "yes," "youth," and "yacht." Until the 18th century and perhaps even later than the 18th century the word "Jew" in English was pronounced like the English "you" or "hew," and the word "Jews" like "youse" or "hews."
The present pronunciation of "Jew" in English is a new pronunciation acquired after the 18th century.


John 7:1, "After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for He would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill Him."

According to Strong's Greek Lexicon, the English word "Jewry" in this verse was translated from the Greek word #2449 Ioudaia {ee-oo-dah'-yah} feminine for the land of Judea. Modern translations no longer use the word "Jewry" but the correct translation, "Judea," as in the New American Standard Bible: "And after these things Jesus was walking in Galilee; for He was unwilling to walk in Judea, because the Jews were seeking to kill Him."
The New International Version uses the same word.
However, these translations continue to improperly use the word "Jews" in the same verse. A consistent translation would read: ". . . He was unwilling to walk in Judea, because the Judeans were seeking to kill Him."

 

[Lovely Lane]

One thing that has concerned me in this current era is the over-acceptance of Jewish bigotries against Gentiles. I would say almost, but it has already come about that in the face of mockery and disdain of the Lord Jesus Christ, many Christians simply do not stand up to it and when one does, they are practically double-teamed by Christians themselves.

I see this as a mortal issue- Jews are supposed to be 'God's chosen people', and yet even by them being proverbial anti-Christs, Christians simply allow and even condone their actions of walking over people with their hatefulness.

I feel like there is some flawed 'political correctness' which people are becoming indoctrinated into, as a Christian will be shunned for speaking ill against Jews while they practically get a free-bee on their transgressions.


Figured I'd make this thread to see how others feel about this

Hey SIM, just wanted to bring the OP back to the forefront. You are right, I see many judaizers out there in Christendom, not many take a stand against the Jew, but sure will bite ones head off if they find another doing it. Seems to me that Christians are more willingly to fight other Christians than the Jew or the Muslim.

ST. John Chrysostom was absolutely correct when he wrote the eight homilies Adversus Judaeos (against the Judaizers)

edit... to be more clear, I was speaking to all of Christendom, not about members on this thread. thanks.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey SIM, just wanted to bring the OP back to the forefront. You are right, I see many judaizers out there in Christendom, not many take a stand against the Jew, but sure will bite ones head off if they find another doing it.
Seems to me that Christians are more willingly to fight other Christians than the Jew or the Muslim.

ST. John Chrysostom was absolutely correct when he wrote the eight homilies Adversus Judaeos (against the Judaizers)

There are a number of threads on "judaizers" on CF.
One way to find them is use google search and add "christianforums".

Google
site:christianforums.com judaizers christianforums


http://www.christianforums.com/t7522920/#post56436378

Originally Posted by Frogster Judiasm is called bondage 4 times in galatians.

I tend to believe that is what Paul is referring to in the passage of 2 Corin 6:

2 Corin 6:17 'wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated!' is saying Lord 'and an unclean-thing no ye be touching! and I shall be accepting ye' [Isaiah 52:11, Ezekiel 20:34,41/Revelation 18:4]
18 'And I shall be to ye as a Father and ye shall be to Me as sons and daughters' is saying El Almighty.
[2 Samuel 7:14]

 

[Lovely Lane]

There are a number of threads on "judaizers" on CF.
One way to find them is use google search and add "christianforums".

Google
site:christianforums.com judaizers christianforums


http://www.christianforums.com/t7522920/#post56436378

WOW! Thanks friend. I'll have to take time to read up of that thread, it seems most interesting. I appreciate it.

Guess since this is the Christian Current Affairs forum I should keep my comments to today's Israel actions concerning Zionism and to those Christian judaizers, the flawed political correctness of Christendom of today.

 

[Bethesda]

Hey SIM, just wanted to bring the OP back to the forefront. You are right, I see many judaizers out there in Christendom, not many take a stand against the Jew, but sure will bite ones head off if they find another doing it. Seems to me that Christians are more willingly to fight other Christians than the Jew or the Muslim.

ST. John Chrysostom was absolutely correct when he wrote the eight homilies Adversus Judaeos (against the Judaizers)

edit... to be more clear, I was speaking to all of Christendom, not about members on this thread. thanks.

I did ask the question before as to whether Jews attacking Christianity was a big issue in the US - in order for the term 'war' to be used -since over here in the UK its not

 

[Lovely Lane]

I did ask the question before as to whether Jews attacking Christianity was a big issue in the US - in order for the term 'war' to be used -since over here in the UK its not

The spiritual war continues on as you know.
Here, a big supporter of snuffing out Christian values is the well funded ADL. War? Sure, I guess we can call it war, that takes place in the courtroom, in legislature, in the media. All of which is constantly lobbied by special interest groups such as ADL, J Street and AIPAC to name a few.

PressTV - Zionist Jews biggest donors to presidential bids of Obama, Romney

Mr. Siegel was wearing a “Jews for Obama” pin. Ms. Hughes spotted the pin and asked the chairman about his support for Obama despite the administration’s record with Israel.

“I’m Jewish, I’m not a fan of any other religion than Judaism.”
“The worst possible allies for the Jewish state are the fundamentalist Christians who want Jews to die and convert so they can bring on the second coming of their Lord.” Democrat Chair Spews Anti-Christian Hate Speech | Video | TheBlaze.com

Conversion? Yes, I agree with that.
Death? No, I don't want them to die.

 

[Psalm 91]

Have you read the thread called "Prager and Hagee in agreement" over at eschatology? The significance is that the orthodox Jew and very clear thinker, Dennis Prager (national talk show host), recently had Hagee on as a guest. they were in perfect agreement about modern Israel. Prager insists that Jesus cannot be Messiah because no description of the figure is anything like Jesus. This is not addressed nor any sort of an issue to Hagee. Therefore, my conclusion is that one of the most mililtant defenders of modern Israel who says he is a Christian has no problem with Prager's denial of Messiah.

I may be wrong, but wasn't the essential declaration of the NT Christians that "Jesus was Messiah"?

--Inter

I know this is a response to a very early post but I thought that Dennis Prager was Catholic. And this has nothing to do with the OP but why does John Hagee make that sign of the devil with his hand while he is preaching? Has anyone else noticed this? I wish he'd stop. It makes me crazy.

 

[Psalm 91]

Yeah, well I had the same idea at one time, about what about the guy who never heard of Jesus. Then I learned of Jesus ministering to the dead when taken down from the cross and placed in the tomb. All of those souls who accepted Jesus were released from hell. And in case someone eludes the spoken Word these days, they always get a fair judgement. If we can not believe that God is not fair than why believe at all.

Thanks for sharing your idea of the Jew being son of God, I don't see it that way. Why not just say all good people go to heaven?

Looks like I derailed the thread by asking questions concerning theology. Sorry about that.

Are you speaking of the verse in Romans which says something about all Jews being saved? Every time someone says they will, I think of people like Alan Dershowitz and how nasty he can get. Many Jews are atheists nowadays.

Anyway, as someone said earlier, the Jews have been purposely blinded until the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled.

I am usually a defender of the Jewish people because God promised Abraham that He would bless those who bless them and curse those who curse them. Judging and punishing is God's business, not mine. And the empires of the OT who treated the Jews badly, where are they? Assyria, Babylon? Some are yet to be punished. The U.S. may end up being punished if we continue to treat Israel badly as we have over the last four years.

I think it is best to submit ourselves to the will of God and whatever He says, we should obey. He knows how orthodox Jews treat Christians. He sees everything.