LDS Zarahemla Nonexistent

[Peter1000]

Jesus was NOT born in Jerusalem

Nice catch dr.

 

[mmksparbud]

Again, that you know there was no wind or currents has to be a great big nothingburger. What kind of currents do you think were created when the fountains of the deep were broken up? Who knows, but
as the waters lifted up the arc and then eventually covered all the mountains, I can at least conjur up a certain amount of current that could carry a boat a fair distance from where it was built, but who really knows. It really is not that important anyway.

Wow, setting up his throne? Moving the capital to Missouri? You really dislike JS don't you? You would think that the founding of SDA would give you a feel for prophets of God, but I guess not.

Just because the garden of Eden was in America, does not mean that everything would have happened here. God wanted His son to be born in Jerusalem, and he was, regardless of Eden.

The story is that a white man with a beard came to their people and ministered to them and was their king, and then he left and said he would return. When Cortez and Pizzaro came to the Americas, they conquered partly because many of the people thought they were this white God they were waiting to return to them.

No--the white man was to come, not that he had come and would return. They depicted their top God, Viracocha, as a white man, he was the creator of all. He then gave control over humanity to other lesser gods and disappeared. When the Spaniards came, they thought it was him or another god like him. It is the Mormon's that spread the idea that that the Inca thought there was a white man that had come and would come again. The Inca writings do not depict that.

JS leads people away from the truth of His word and says it is not authoritative, it has been corrupted and his writings are far more accurate. That in itself is prove that he is not a prophet of God. A true prophet never puts his own writings above the word of God. God's prophets always lead to the Word of God as authoritative. JS wanted to be President of this country. He was power hungry.
Nothing in the bible places the Garden of Eden anywhere else but in the middle east. You still have not provided a map of where you believe the Garden could be in Missouri, where the rivers even come close to being like what is described. You were given a map of where in the middle east if could be. It is important as it is simply one more prove that JS is not a prophet of God.

 

[Peter1000]

No--the white man was to come, not that he had come and would return. They depicted their top God, Viracocha, as a white man, he was the creator of all. He then gave control over humanity to other lesser gods and disappeared. When the Spaniards came, they thought it was him or another god like him. It is the Mormon's that spread the idea that that the Inca thought there was a white man that had come and would come again. The Inca writings do not depict that.

JS leads people away from the truth of His word and says it is not authoritative, it has been corrupted and his writings are far more accurate. That in itself is prove that he is not a prophet of God. A true prophet never puts his own writings above the word of God. God's prophets always lead to the Word of God as authoritative. JS wanted to be President of this country. He was power hungry.
Nothing in the bible places the Garden of Eden anywhere else but in the middle east. You still have not provided a map of where you believe the Garden could be in Missouri, where the rivers even come close to being like what is described. You were given a map of where in the middle east if could be. It is important as it is simply one more prove that JS is not a prophet of God.

The most current prophet is the most important prophet. For instance:

Adam was important, but when Adam died, Enoch was more important because he was a living oracle of God. The written words of Adam were important, but not as important than the living revelations given by Enoch.

When Enoch died, he was replaced by Noah. Noah became more important than Enoch. Even though the writings of Enoch were important, the living oracle of God, Noah, was more important. If all you relied on was the writings of Enoch you would have been killed in the flood.

When Noah died, he was replaced by Abraham. Noah's writings were important, but the living oracle and living revelation from Abraham was more important. If we relied on the writings of Noah, we would never have been given the Abrahamic covenant.

When Abraham died, the next most important prophet was Moses. Abrahams writings were important, but a living oracle, receiving living revelation from God is more important. If we had relied on Abrahams writings only, we would never have had the OT.

Then there was a series of important prophets after Moses, but the most important was Jesus Christ.
Now the writings of Moses were important, but not as important as a living oracle, giving living information about God and his dealings with mankind.

These sayings of Jesus were written down by his apostles, who were important men in the gospel of Jesus Christ in the first century. They did their best to keep the gospel as plain as it was presented to them.

Finally we come to JS. The writings of Peter and Paul and others are very important, but a living oracle living 2,000 years after these men, and receiving living revelation from Jesus Christ, is more important than what Peter and Paul said 2,000 years ago.

God will not trap Himself into a book. If He wants to do something that is not written in an earlier writing, then He gets to do it. He will not refer back to a writing of an earlier prophet before He says and does His will. Therefore the words of a living prophet of God is more important than a the written words of a past prophet of God.

It is true of Russel Nelson, the current prophet of God. The words of JS are important, but the words of a living oracle, receiving living revelation from Jesus Christ is more important than what JS said.

It will be true for the next living prophet of God.

Do you see the model that God uses from the beginning of time until today?

BTW, there are hundreds of stories about a white God that came and left, and was supposed to return. Or was supposed to come. Or came and will not return. Or...... All of these stories refer back to Jesus Christ in America. Some got corrupted along the way, but all about Jesus.

 

[Peter1000]

mistake, sorry

 

[mmksparbud]

The most current prophet is the most important prophet. For instance:

Adam was important, but when Adam died, Enoch was more important because he was a living oracle of God. The written words of Adam were important, but not as important than the living revelations given by Enoch.

When Enoch died, he was replaced by Noah. Noah became more important than Enoch. Even though the writings of Enoch were important, the living oracle of God, Noah, was more important. If all you relied on was the writings of Enoch you would have been killed in the flood.

When Noah died, he was replaced by Abraham. Noah's writings were important, but the living oracle and living revelation from Abraham was more important. If we relied on the writings of Noah, we would never have been given the Abrahamic covenant.

When Abraham died, the next most important prophet was Moses. Abrahams writings were important, but a living oracle, receiving living revelation from God is more important. If we had relied on Abrahams writings only, we would never have had the OT.

Then there was a series of important prophets after Moses, but the most important was Jesus Christ.
Now the writings of Moses were important, but not as important as a living oracle, giving living information about God and his dealings with mankind.

These sayings of Jesus were written down by his apostles, who were important men in the gospel of Jesus Christ in the first century. They did their best to keep the gospel as plain as it was presented to them.

Finally we come to JS. The writings of Peter and Paul and others are very important, but a living oracle living 2,000 years after these men, and receiving living revelation from Jesus Christ, is more important than what Peter and Paul said 2,000 years ago.

God will not trap Himself into a book. If He wants to do something that is not written in an earlier writing, then He gets to do it. He will not refer back to a writing of an earlier prophet before He says and does His will. Therefore the words of a living prophet of God is more important than a the written words of a past prophet of God.

It is true of Russel Nelson, the current prophet of God. The words of JS are important, but the words of a living oracle, receiving living revelation from Jesus Christ is more important than what JS said.

It will be true for the next living prophet of God.

Do you see the model that God uses from the beginning of time until today?

BTW, there are hundreds of stories about a white God that came and left, and was supposed to return. Or was supposed to come. Or came and will not return. Or...... All of these stories refer back to Jesus Christ in America. Some got corrupted along the way, but all about Jesus.

Hate to tell you this---but God does not deal with "importance." The current prophet is just the current prophet. It does not lessen the importance of what the previous prophets said. Daniel is no longer a current prophet---however, what he said is still the living word of God. What he said is just as important today. What Moses said was often quoted by Jesus and the disciples---do you see the model God is always consistently using from the beginning of time until today?? The new may be more pertinent to what is going to happen today in a specific place, but does not replace the previous. It merely builds on the past. God is not trapped by a book---He gave us His LIVING word for us to use throughout time--we will still study it in the new earth. His word is Him, it does not wear out it does not get outdated, does not expire anymore than He does.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

 

[Peter1000]

Hate to tell you this---but God does not deal with "importance." The current prophet is just the current prophet. It does not lessen the importance of what the previous prophets said. Daniel is no longer a current prophet---however, what he said is still the living word of God. What he said is just as important today. What Moses said was often quoted by Jesus and the disciples---do you see the model God is always consistently using from the beginning of time until today?? The new may be more pertinent to what is going to happen today in a specific place, but does not replace the previous. It merely builds on the past. God is not trapped by a book---He gave us His LIVING word for us to use throughout time--we will still study it in the new earth. His word is Him, it does not wear out it does not get outdated, does not expire anymore than He does.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

If Moses says "you must be surcumcized, and John says "it is unecessary to be circumcized"., who are you going to listen too. Moses, or John.

If Moses says "you must believe the Law of Moses and live the Law fully", and Paul says "we are under grace, and not the Law of Moses", who are you going to listen too. Moses or Paul?

If the earlier prophet is as important as the current prophet, as you can see, that would cause a real problem in the church. You cannot have 2 competing oracles, both speaking at the same time, or it will cause chaos in the church.

 

[mmksparbud]

If Moses says "you must be surcumcized, and John says "it is unecessary to be circumcized"., who are you going to listen too. Moses, or John.

If Moses says "you must believe the Law of Moses and live the Law fully", and Paul says "we are under grace, and not the Law of Moses", who are you going to listen too. Moses or Paul?

If the earlier prophet is as important as the current prophet, as you can see, that would cause a real problem in the church. You cannot have 2 competing oracles, both speaking at the same time, or it will cause chaos in the church.

Jesus--who is whom all the disciples listened to and besides---the new covenant was already foretold in the OT. That is why the 10 commandments, written by God on stone, were kept in the ark, while the Levitical laws, written by the hand of Moses as dictated by God, were written on scrolls and kept outside the ark. There is no inconsistency with God.

 

[Peter1000]

Jesus--who is whom all the disciples listened to and besides---the new covenant was already foretold in the OT. That is why the 10 commandments, written by God on stone, were kept in the ark, while the Levitical laws, written by the hand of Moses as dictated by God, were written on scrolls and kept outside the ark. There is no inconsistency with God.

There is no inconsistency with God, but there are tremendous inconsistencies with man. God must do what he needs to do to help man get along. Man at the time of Moses, needed the Law of Moses. Man at the time of Jesus needed the Law of Christ. They were different.

But the whole question was not answered. Who are you going to listen to Moses or Paul? If you hearken back to Moses, then you are still living the Law of Moses. That was the problem with the vast majority of Jews. They saw Jesus and Paul as renigades that was dangerous for Judaism, and was so dangerous they killed Jesus and eventually killed Paul. The Jews are living the OT, even today, to their detriment.

You are living totally from a document that was written for man in 1 - 33ad. Those times are much different than they are today. As different of times as Moses to Paul. You are looking for answers in a 2,000 letter written from Paul to his adherents. Did he write down all of the gospel. No, he couldn't. We have what he and the rest of the apostles wrote down, but is that all? No.

A current prophet is given more information about he gospel of Jesus Christ. Like more information that Paul had that Moses did not have. JS has more information than what is contained in the bible. I know that is blasphemous to you, but if you will put yourself in the footsteps of the Jews at the time of Jesus, you will see the parallel. Should we stay with the bible(OT), or do we go with Jesus and his disciples, and their new gospel? Many Jews chose wisely and went with Jesus and his disciples.

Do I stay with the bible only or do I go with JS, who has the bible + more information about Jesus Christ. It is different than what I have believed, but JS says there was an apostacy and time and wicked men that created the difference and Jesus Christ has inaugerated the restoration of the true church to get ready for the millenium. Hope you choose wisely.

 

[mmksparbud]

There is no inconsistency with God, but there are tremendous inconsistencies with man. God must do what he needs to do to help man get along. Man at the time of Moses, needed the Law of Moses. Man at the time of Jesus needed the Law of Christ. They were different.

But the whole question was not answered. Who are you going to listen to Moses or Paul? If you hearken back to Moses, then you are still living the Law of Moses. That was the problem with the vast majority of Jews. They saw Jesus and Paul as renigades that was dangerous for Judaism, and was so dangerous they killed Jesus and eventually killed Paul. The Jews are living the OT, even today, to their detriment.

You are living totally from a document that was written for man in 1 - 33ad. Those times are much different than they are today. As different of times as Moses to Paul. You are looking for answers in a 2,000 letter written from Paul to his adherents. Did he write down all of the gospel. No, he couldn't. We have what he and the rest of the apostles wrote down, but is that all? No.

A current prophet is given more information about he gospel of Jesus Christ. Like more information that Paul had that Moses did not have. JS has more information than what is contained in the bible. I know that is blasphemous to you, but if you will put yourself in the footsteps of the Jews at the time of Jesus, you will see the parallel. Should we stay with the bible(OT), or do we go with Jesus and his disciples, and their new gospel? Many Jews chose wisely and went with Jesus and his disciples.

Do I stay with the bible only or do I go with JS, who has the bible + more information about Jesus Christ. It is different than what I have believed, but JS says there was an apostacy and time and wicked men that created the difference and Jesus Christ has inaugerated the restoration of the true church to get ready for the millenium. Hope you choose wisely.

First----The law of Moses are the ordinances and sacrificial laws that Moses wrote down on scrolls. Those were the ones that were nailed to the cross. Those were the shadows of things to come.
Those are the old covenant. The 10 are permanent--on stone written by God, therefore changeable only by Him and kept inside the Ark, which represents the throne of God --the ordinances were temporary, written on paper, written by the hand of Moses, kept outside the Ark and therefore temporary, nailed to the cross. Both were of God. The covenant of the ordinances of Moses were foretold to be done away with--the new covenant being Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb.
The only scriptures that Paul, and all the disciples and all first Christians had were the OT scriptures.

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is referring to the OT--that is what they were to study. the NT didn't get written until many years later, they were letters written to the churches. The OT is all t hat Jesus had. They pointed to Christ, the sanctuary services all pointed to Jesus. the NT is the fulfillment of the OT. It is Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb, and Jesus pointed to God the Father. Moses, through the study of the sanctuary service, knew all about the coming Messiah for the whole plan of salvation was found there. To go outside the bible is to stand without the full knowledge of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It leaves one open to the theories and false doctrines of man. It leaves one open to the deceptions of Satan. Therefore--I choose to go by the whole bible--and the bible only for doctrines. It is the only wise thing to do.

 

[Peter1000]

First----The law of Moses are the ordinances and sacrificial laws that Moses wrote down on scrolls. Those were the ones that were nailed to the cross. Those were the shadows of things to come.
Those are the old covenant. The 10 are permanent--on stone written by God, therefore changeable only by Him and kept inside the Ark, which represents the throne of God --the ordinances were temporary, written on paper, written by the hand of Moses, kept outside the Ark and therefore temporary, nailed to the cross. Both were of God. The covenant of the ordinances of Moses were foretold to be done away with--the new covenant being Jesus is the sacrificial Lamb.
The only scriptures that Paul, and all the disciples and all first Christians had were the OT scriptures.

2Ti_2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is referring to the OT--that is what they were to study. the NT didn't get written until many years later, they were letters written to the churches. The OT is all t hat Jesus had. They pointed to Christ, the sanctuary services all pointed to Jesus. the NT is the fulfillment of the OT. It is Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb, and Jesus pointed to God the Father. Moses, through the study of the sanctuary service, knew all about the coming Messiah for the whole plan of salvation was found there. To go outside the bible is to stand without the full knowledge of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. It leaves one open to the theories and false doctrines of man. It leaves one open to the deceptions of Satan. Therefore--I choose to go by the whole bible--and the bible only for doctrines. It is the only wise thing to do.

Well, at least I am glad that you are not stuck in the Law of Moses and the OT.