Y'shua could NOT have chosen to sin

[RND]

Lebesgue,


Completely ignoring the Scripture which blatantly refutes your position goes no way to encouraging meaningful discussion. It is more akin to the vain babbling that goes on in this forum way too much.


Just in case you missed it the first time, here it is again.


"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 4:15


Enjoy,


Jon

Almost 20 or going on 65?

 

[djconklin]

G-d is IMMORTAL and by definition CANNOT die.

Whose definition? How can we "know" it cannot die under all circumstances, etc.? Wouldn't we have to have infinite knowledge to know that? Last I checked none of us here qualifies (even on a good day!).

 

[Cribstyl]

His Body died. His spirit DIDN'T.

G-d is IMMORTAL and by definition CANNOT die.

Shalom,

Reb

Show where anyone's spirit has died? The breath of God is eternal. Bible proves that man gives up the spirit before death. The spirit is taken back by God, recieved by God



Jam 2:26 — For as the body without the spirit is dead,
so faith without works is dead also.


Ecc 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.



Psa 104:29Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.


Psa 146:4His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.


Luk 23:46And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
Act 7:59And they stoned Stephen, calling upon [God], and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.


Stephen saw Jesus after He was given all authority and power at the right hand of the throne being able to recieve his spirit..(only God)

.............................................................................

Bible text proves that Jesus died and was resurrected. If there was no death, then there was no resurrection.

Jesus prophesied it

Mat 17:9And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

Jhn 2:22When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

After the resurrection

Jhn 21:14This is now the third time that Jesus shewed himself to his disciples, after that he was risen from the dead.

Paul's doctrine.
1Cr 15:20But now is Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that slept.

Jesus died same as all men from Adam died, and He resurrected from the dead.
"men that sleep" has to be men that died who follows Jesus to heaven.

BOTTOM LINE..........JESUS DIED.

CRIB

 

[OntheDL]

My son, who like me is an ex-Adventist decided to go back to SDA school for High School because he missed his friends and did not like the Public school in our neighbourhood.

When I saw his textbooks for the SDA school which for Religion class included "Messiah" which is a paraphrase for teens of EGW's "Desire of Ages" and read where it said, when He was tempted, Y'shua could have chosen to Sin and chosen to rebel against G-d, I became angered that they would teach something like that.

I explained to my son that Y'shua IS G-d and G-d CANNOT sin and CANNOT rebel against Himself. Yes, Y'shua was tempted but He is G-d and His temptations were DIFFERENT from ours.

I can't believe that they teach that Y'shua could have failed. NO HE COULD NOT HAVE HE IS G-D!!!!!!

Shalom,

Lebesgue

I guess you forgot Christ was fully divine while fully human. While His divinity could not have chosen to sin, His humanity was fully capable.

 

[Avonia]

I guess you forgot Christ was fully divine while fully human. While His divinity could not have chosen to sin, His humanity was fully capable.

Please say more - I'm interested.

 

[freeindeed2]

It sounds like there is still confusion in SDAism as to whether Jesus was God. Either Jesus was(is) fully God, or he wasn't(isn't). Once you decide what you believe with regard to this the question you must answer is:

Can God sin?

In CHRIST alone...

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

I know I am a little late on this but here is something I wrote several years ago on the subject:
Could Jesus Have Sinned

Could Jesus Have Sinned
By Ron Corson​

I don’t know how many times I have heard it in my life, but it has been quite a lot, and I still hear it. I hear it said "Jesus could have sinned during His life here on earth." Maybe to some people this statement is easily accepted, maybe even readily grasped as a truism, but to me it is one of the most troubling statements I have ever heard. I admit it did not trouble me in my teen age years, and maybe not in college, but at some point when I decided to take my belief in God seriously this statement became a problem.

You see I believe that Jesus Christ was and is God. A belief I base on the Bible, such verses as:
John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. (NIV)

Col 1:15-16 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. (NIV)

John 14:9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, `Show us the Father'? (NIV)

Now maybe you start to see the problem, if Jesus could sin then God can sin, if Jesus could have sinned in His earthly life then Jesus could sin now, in the past or in the future. It is pretty commonly accepted that Jesus came to show us what God is really like.(so I won’t go into it here) This is why a man or an Angel could not do what Jesus did, only God can with certainty show us what God is like. In Jesus Christ we see God’s character completely. Could Jesus, just because he took on the limitations of humanity lose His character. Could He for whatever reason, pain, rejection etc. Deny His own character. My Bible tells me that God does not change.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. (NIV)

Ps 102:27 But you remain the same, and your years will never end. (NIV)

Heb 1:10-12 He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end." (NIV)

This is why I can have faith in God, I know what His character is like and He tells me it will not change. So as I close let me ask, where does the idea come from that Jesus could have sinned. Let me submit to you that it is illogical and unbiblical. My confidence comes from knowing God, a God of love who does not change.

I Jn 4:17-19 In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment, because in this world we are like him. There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love. We love because he first loved us. (NIV)
​

Of course the objection will always be how could Jesus have been tempted if He could not sin. The answer is pretty easy the Greek word used in that verse is the same as tested. Jesus was tested and proven to be without sin. James says you are tempted by the lusts of your own heart. something I have found to be true but I have a problem thinking that Jesus had the same sinful lusts that I do.

 

[Lebesgue]

I so agree with what you posted above RC.

This is EXACTLY the point I have been trying to make with this thread.

G-d Bless you for standing for the truth and trying to reform the SDA church. IF only they would listen to you and the other Progs who are trying to reform the SDA church and bring it back to the Bible and the TRUE Gospel.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

BOTTOM LINE..........JESUS DIED.

CRIB

We would all agree Jesus died but that does not mean divinity died. Jesus was unique being both God and man. Even Ellen White says that His divinity did not die. Jesus also said that He would lay down His life and take it up again.
John 10:17 "For this reason the Father loves Me, because I lay down My life so that I may take it again[SIZE=-0]."

[/SIZE]Which is another evidence that Jesus is God as God is attributed to having raised Jesus to life in various New testament verses.

 

[OntheDL]

Please say more - I'm interested.

The standards/flags of the tribes encamped about the tabernacle pointed to the different aspects of life and character of Christ.... So did the four gospel books.

The lion of Judah (east) /the book of Matthew--> Christ the King
The man of Reuben (south) / the book of Luke--> Christ the Man
The ox of Ephraim (west) / the book of Mark--> Christ the Servant
The eagle of Dan (north) / the book of John--> Christ the Divine

While the Divinity of Christ is incapable of sin and mortality, the Humanity of Christ became sin and died for us.

Such is the mystery of the Savior, being fully divine and fully human. When His human flesh was tempted, He did not rely on His own divinity, but the Father's power to deliver Him, thus leaving us the example: complete victory over sin with the power of the Father.

Aside from the scriptures that were quoted in the previous replies, here is another one:

Hebrews 5
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[RND]

The standards/flags of the tribes encamped about the tabernacle pointed to the different aspects of life and character of Christ.... So did the four gospel books.

The lion of Judah (east) /the book of Matthew--> Christ the King
The man of Reuben (south) / the book of Luke--> Christ the Man
The ox of Ephraim (west) / the book of Mark--> Christ the Servant
The eagle of Dan (north) / the book of John--> Christ the Divine

While the Divinity of Christ is incapable of sin and mortality, the Humanity of Christ became sin and died for us.

Such is the mystery of the Savior, being fully divine and fully human. When His human flesh was tempted, He did not rely on His own divinity, but the Father's power to deliver Him, thus leaving us the example: complete victory over sin with the power of the Father.

Aside from the scriptures that were quoted in the previous replies, here is another one:

Hebrews 5
7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared;
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Good post OntheDL. One atta boy for you!

 

[freeindeed2]

Can God sin?

 

[RND]

Can God sin?

In which state? As "eternal God" or as a "man?" As "eternal God?" No, not in my mind. As a "man?" He was tempted, so yes, he could have. He just didn't.

 

[freeindeed2]

In which state? As "eternal God" or as a "man?" As "eternal God?" No, not in my mind. As a "man?" He was tempted, so yes, he could have. He just didn't.

By your answer then, God can sin.

Is God unchanging?

 

[Lebesgue]

By your answer then, God can sin.

I think that's what he said.

That's what they get wrong. G-d CANNOT sin.

Even when Y'shua was in a man's body he was STILL G-d. He has ALWAYS been G-d!

The ONE THING G-d CANNOT do is sin.

IF they think Y'shua could've sinned it makes me wonder if they really believe He is G-d?

Shalom,

Reb

 

[RND]

By your answer then, God can sin.

As a man. But then again, if God can repent, who does God repent to?

Is God unchanging?

Far as I know He is.

Mal 3:6
For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

 

[Dania]

no offense...

but there are some screwed up thinking around her even in the christian God loving world... lmao!!!!!!! i have to deal with so many agnostic ppl and now i think i would be relieved that i am within christianity and it would change. but NOOOO.

what is the purpose of jesus coming and living the example if he were not able to sin?

if jesus came here as flesh but were not able to sin why woud he be our example..

if he were not able to sin wouldnt that be an unfair advantage?

hence we will all ALWAYS sin and it would be unfair for jesus to put us in a duty to be holy and pure etc right?

how could the bible say he was tempted as all men are and yet without sin... would this be significant if he were a special type of human that couldnt sin? could we be compared to him? NO!!

for a young girl like me it is disaster to here adults speak like this .. honesty. i am new to this and yal have been in this for how many years????

anyway, u ppl get so caught up on controversial issue and still u forget the MAIN POINT...

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND HOW JESUS COULD BE OUR EXAMPLE OF THE WAY TO LIFE.. AND HE WAS THAT WAY AND THE LIFE.. AND YET, BE NOT MAN. HE WAS MERE MAN..

THATS WHY IT SO BIG OF A DEAL... THATS WHY WE PRAISE HIM INSTEAD OF THE JEWISH FAITH.. WE BELIEVE IN HIM BECAUSE OF THESE REASON AND HE RESURRECTED AFTER 3 DAYS....
u ppl stress me out.. no lie, somewhere along the line... somehing went wrong

 

[OntheDL]

I think that's what he said.

That's what they get wrong. G-d CANNOT sin.

Even when Y'shua was in a man's body he was STILL G-d. He has ALWAYS been G-d!

The ONE THING G-d CANNOT do is sin.

IF they think Y'shua could've sinned it makes me wonder if they really believe He is G-d?

Shalom,

Reb

Are you and Freeindeed denying the fact that Jesus was fully human while being fully God?

The bible warns about this.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[RND]

no offense...

but there are some screwed up thinking around her even in the christian God loving world... lmao!!!!!!! i have to deal with so many agnostic ppl and now i think i would be relieved that i am within christianity and it would change. but NOOOO.

what is the purpose of jesus coming and living the example if he were not able to sin?

if jesus came here as flesh but were not able to sin why woud he be our example..

if he were not able to sin wouldnt that be an unfair advantage?

hence we will all ALWAYS sin and it would be unfair for jesus to put us in a duty to be holy and pure etc right?

how could the bible say he was tempted as all men are and yet without sin... would this be significant if he were a special type of human that couldnt sin? could we be compared to him? NO!!

for a young girl like me it is disaster to here adults speak like this .. honesty. i am new to this and yal have been in this for how many years????

anyway, u ppl get so caught up on controversial issue and still u forget the MAIN POINT...

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND HOW JESUS COULD BE OUR EXAMPLE OF THE WAY TO LIFE.. AND HE WAS THAT WAY AND THE LIFE.. AND YET, BE NOT MAN. HE WAS MERE MAN..

THATS WHY IT SO BIG OF A DEAL... THATS WHY WE PRAISE HIM INSTEAD OF THE JEWISH FAITH.. WE BELIEVE IN HIM BECAUSE OF THESE REASON AND HE RESURRECTED AFTER 3 DAYS....
u ppl stress me out.. no lie, somewhere along the line... somehing went wrong

One huge atta girl for you! Good post.

 

[freeindeed2]

As a man. But then again, if God can repent, who does God repent to?

That's a start. God is God! Period! Either he can sin or he can't. Which is it?

Far as I know He is.

Mal 3:6
For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Hebrews 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

If he's 'never changing' when did he change from a sinless God to a God with the potential to sin?

In CHRIST alone...