Y'shua could NOT have chosen to sin

[whitestar]

no offense...

but there are some screwed up thinking around her even in the christian God loving world... lmao!!!!!!! i have to deal with so many agnostic ppl and now i think i would be relieved that i am within christianity and it would change. but NOOOO.

what is the purpose of jesus coming and living the example if he were not able to sin?

if jesus came here as flesh but were not able to sin why woud he be our example..

if he were not able to sin wouldnt that be an unfair advantage?

hence we will all ALWAYS sin and it would be unfair for jesus to put us in a duty to be holy and pure etc right?

how could the bible say he was tempted as all men are and yet without sin... would this be significant if he were a special type of human that couldnt sin? could we be compared to him? NO!!

for a young girl like me it is disaster to here adults speak like this .. honesty. i am new to this and yal have been in this for how many years????

anyway, u ppl get so caught up on controversial issue and still u forget the MAIN POINT...

I JUST DONT UNDERSTAND HOW JESUS COULD BE OUR EXAMPLE OF THE WAY TO LIFE.. AND HE WAS THAT WAY AND THE LIFE.. AND YET, BE NOT MAN. HE WAS MERE MAN..

THATS WHY IT SO BIG OF A DEAL... THATS WHY WE PRAISE HIM INSTEAD OF THE JEWISH FAITH.. WE BELIEVE IN HIM BECAUSE OF THESE REASON AND HE RESURRECTED AFTER 3 DAYS....
u ppl stress me out.. no lie, somewhere along the line... somehing went wrong

Dania...yes I know its upsetting but its actually normal. Even Jesus' disciples argued among themselves...its part of our human nature.....depending on HOW a discussion goes though, it can benefit others the 'iron sharpens iron' verse people like to refer too OR it can be a sinnful discussion.
2 Timothy 2

23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

I think we can discuss this without being defensive towards each other and realize God is perfectly capable of presenting the truth about Christ through His Words. (the bible)...always refer to the bible in finding the answers to these and other questions. A person can say all they want about whether Jesus can or cannot sin when He was in human form but without scriptures to back up their statements it doesn't mean much. So find the posts that actually present scriptures on it to find the truth.

Right now I am staying out of this discussion...though I find it interesting...I just wanted to respond to your unhappy post. Just remember even those closest to Jesus were at odds with each other at times....and try to not let it bug you too much.

God bless

 

[freeindeed2]

Are you and Freeindeed denying the fact that Jesus was fully human while being fully God?

Not at all! I just don't believe that Holy Sovereign God can sin, and I believe Jesus is Holy Sovereign God (and always has been).

The bible warns about this.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

 

[OntheDL]

Not at all! I just don't believe that Holy Sovereign God can sin, and I believe Jesus is Holy Sovereign God (and always has been).

Then how did the holy sovereign God die on the cross???

Was Jesus not the Man at the same time that Christ the Man died on the cross???


I don't think anyone actually said the sovereign God sinned. You are arguing on a point we didn't make.

 

[freeindeed2]

Then how did the holy sovereign God die on the cross???

Because GOD laid down his life willingly and raised himself back up again to accomplish redemption on behalf of sinful humans like you and me.

Was Jesus not the Man at the same time that Christ the Man died on the cross???

Certainly he was. He was born just like we are, yet he was FULLY God. And God CANNOT sin.

I don't think anyone actually said the sovereign God sinned. You are arguing on a point we didn't make.

To say that Jesus (FULLY GOD) could sin is to say that he is NOT SOVEREIGN. That point HAS been made and I am arguing it.

In CHRIST alone...

 

[OntheDL]

Because GOD laid down his life willingly and raised himself back up again to accomplish redemption on behalf of sinful humans like you and me.

Certainly he was. He was born just like we are, yet he was FULLY God. And God CANNOT sin.

You did not answer the question. How did a fully sovereign God (a spirit without a physical body) die?

Was He fully man at the same time, yes or no?

To say that Jesus (FULLY GOD) could sin is to say that he is NOT SOVEREIGN. That point HAS been made and I am arguing it.

In CHRIST alone...

 

[RND]

That's a start. God is God! Period! Either he can sin or he can't. Which is it?

Even when God is in the form of a man? What would be the necessity of God being able to be tempted if it wasn't possible to sin?

If he's 'never changing' when did he change from a sinless God to a God with the potential to sin?

When He was a man? You bet. He was tempted wasn't He? I believe other posters have mentioned that God can't die. He's "eternal" and has always been. If that's true, how come God died on the cross? How could God die if God can never die?

 

[Lebesgue]

Because GOD laid down his life willingly and raised himself back up again to accomplish redemption on behalf of sinful humans like you and me.


Certainly he was. He was born just like we are, yet he was FULLY God. And God CANNOT sin.


To say that Jesus (FULLY GOD) could sin is to say that he is NOT SOVEREIGN. That point HAS been made and I am arguing it.

In CHRIST alone...

Freeindeed I agree with you completely.

G-d is soverign and CANNOT sin. Y'shua is ALL G-d ALL the time and COULD NOT have chosen to sin.

I think the reason why many SDAs believe Y'shua could have chosen to sin and didn't is to justify what Ellen taught that they have to "perfect" their character and be COMPLETELY sinless in order to pass the Investigative Judgement and be saved. When I was an Adventist I subscibed to this idea and it NEARLY cost me my faith in G-d when I realised there is no way I could live up to this.

Y'shua is our SUBSTITUTE. He did for us what we CANNOT do for ourselves.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

n

what is the purpose of jesus coming and living the example if he were not able to sin?


if he were not able to sin wouldnt that be an unfair advantage?

hence we will all ALWAYS sin and it would be unfair for jesus to put us in a duty to be holy and pure etc right?

You have a couple of assumptions here Did Jesus come to be our example. Well certainly He was an example but He was not an example of having a family, marriage, or even work. His purpose was as John 1 says for the Word to become flesh and dwell among us. So the idea is much more likely that Jesus came to reveal God not to be our example though certainly He was an example.

Did He have unfair advantage. Well again if it was to show us merely as example then yes He had advantages. In that He never sinned. Was born with and through the Holy Spirit. But if He came to reveal God then those are not advantages they are the characteristics of God.

 

[Dania]

oh THANK YOU WHITE STAR!! VERY ENCOURAGING AND CALMING WORDS!!

 

[AndrewK788]

We need to first remember the definition of sin in the first place. Sin is separation from God. God cannot separate himself from himself. That's like saying God has the potential to rebel against himself. BUT when the son of God, Jesus Christ, came to earth he took on the form of a man, thus enabling the potential to do as men do and become separated from God. I don't see any logical way that God could sin, but when Jesus was upon this earth as a human, he could have sinned.

 

[RND]

Because GOD laid down his life willingly and raised himself back up again to accomplish redemption on behalf of sinful humans like you and me.

Jesus was made alive again by the Holy Spirit, not of Himself.

1 Pe 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

Certainly he was. He was born just like we are, yet he was FULLY God. And God CANNOT sin.

But as a man God died right? How can that be if God cannot die?

To say that Jesus (FULLY GOD) could sin is to say that he is NOT SOVEREIGN. That point HAS been made and I am arguing it.

Did He willingly make Himself obedient to the Father and to death? How could He be full sovereign and yet obedient to the instruction of God the Father?

Phl 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

How many soveriegn rulers do you know that would humble themselves to their subjects? None? Yet God did.

 

[RND]

We need to first remember the definition of sin in the first place. Sin is separation from God. God cannot separate himself from himself. That's like saying God has the potential to rebel against himself. BUT when the son of God, Jesus Christ, came to earth he took on the form of a man, thus enabling the potential to do as men do and become separated from God. I don't see any logical way that God could sin, but when Jesus was upon this earth as a human, he could have sinned.

Very nice. One atta boy!

 

[Dania]

Though I Acknowledge That The Discussion Is A Distructive One.. Lol!! (sarcastic Laugh Again) I Must Admit That This Reminds Me Of What Happen With The Ppl Who Killed Jesus.. They Expected Him To Come As This Mighty Ruler.. But Instead They Got A Lamb..

They Expected Him To Fight Back.. But He Humble Took The Nails In His Hands And The Whippings....

So Are We... Like These Ppl, Just Like Them.. Missing The Point


At This Point I Appeal To Others Who Are Lovers Of God.. Just Just Suck It Up And Back Out Of The Argument... Does It Make Sense.. Based On Your Experience Have Stubborn Ppl Every Changed Based On Your Efforts To Show Them Your Truth.. Have You Ever Been Changed BY Someones Effort To Show U Their Truth?

So What Is The Sense Arguing? Why Bring Up A Topic Like This To Lead Others Astray.. And Forget The Mainthing.. So Easily We Get Caught Up In Discussion Of Right And Wrong And Forget That It Just Love... Love And Love Alone.

I Stick With My Belief You Stick To Yours. I Stick To My Denomination You Stick To Yours. We All Pray For Each Other.. U May Not Be Able To Show A Man The Way.. But If U Pray God Surely Can.. And U May Even Find Out That U Were The One That Was Lost...

We May Not Know For Sure That Nature Of God.. Though What The Bible Tells Us Seems Obvious To Some. But The Main Thing Is... We Indeed Know His Nature When He Comes Again.. And We Surely Know His Kingdom Will Come.. This Is The Main Point Jesus Is Real And His Kingdom Is Real And Will Come

 

[Dania]

I Still Dont Agree With Your Point...
The Fact That He Dint Sin Was Not An Advantage ..
The Fact That He Dint Sin Was By His Own Effort To Yield Not To Temptation...

And Why Would The Devil Tempt A Man That Was Unable To Sin... That Just Seems Quite Dumb. U Think The Devil Is A Dumb Idiot. The Devil Is Very Wise U See.. Lol.. I Wanna Know Why The Devil Would Tempt Him 3 Times. Blatant In The Bible In Case Some Wouldnt Believe The Man Was Tempted... So The Devil Tried And Jesus Stood Up To It..

Jesus Is The Example Rc Whether U See It Or Not.. He Said He Was The Way, The Truth And What?? The Life.

 

[Lebesgue]

We need to first remember the definition of sin in the first place. Sin is separation from God. God cannot separate himself from himself. That's like saying God has the potential to rebel against himself. BUT when the son of God, Jesus Christ, came to earth he took on the form of a man, thus enabling the potential to do as men do and become separated from God. I don't see any logical way that God could sin, but when Jesus was upon this earth as a human, he could have sinned.

Even when he was in His human body He was still G-d and G-d CANNOT sin.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[OntheDL]

Even when he was in His human body He was still G-d and G-d CANNOT sin.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

You are avoiding the issue. Even when He was in His human body He was still God and God CANNOT die. Then how did He die???

Guess what? Christ the human died. And Christ the human was tempted and could have sinned but didn't.

If you aren't going to listen even when the plain scriptures are provided for you, then what is your purpose of posting here???

 

[RND]

If you aren't going to listen even when the plain scriptures are provided for you, then what is your purpose of posting here???

To be obstinate?

 

[Lebesgue]

To be obstinate?

I AM obstinate in that I will REFUSE to believe anything other than Y'shua being ALL G-d ALL THE time 24/7 and Unable to sin EVER.

The Scripture that has been provided only shows that Y'shua was TEMPTED which I agree with. There is NOWHERE in Scripture that says He could have chosen to sin, that is an Ellenism.

Being TEMPTED does NOT mean that he could have chosen to sin. G-d Cannot sin and Y'shua was ALL G-d ALL the time.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

 

[AndrewK788]

I AM obstinate in that I will REFUSE to believe anything other than Y'shua being ALL G-d ALL THE time 24/7 and Unable to sin EVER.

The Scripture that has been provided only shows that Y'shua was TEMPTED which I agree with. There is NOWHERE in Scripture that says He could have chosen to sin, that is an Ellenism.

Being TEMPTED does NOT mean that he could have chosen to sin. G-d Cannot sin and Y'shua was ALL G-d ALL the time.

Shalom,

Lebesgue

So what does it mean that Jesus was tempted in every way as we are?

 

[RND]

I AM obstinate in that I will REFUSE to believe anything other than Y'shua being ALL G-d ALL THE time 24/7 and Unable to sin EVER.

But on earth as a human Jesus did not use his divinity, he used His Fathers. He was sinless because of His faith and belief in the Father.

The Scripture that has been provided only shows that Y'shua was TEMPTED which I agree with. There is NOWHERE in Scripture that says He could have chosen to sin, that is an Ellenism.

Well, if one can be tempted one can sin. Jesus just didn't sin.

Being TEMPTED does NOT mean that he could have chosen to sin. G-d Cannot sin and Y'shua was ALL G-d ALL the time.

Jesus, could most certainly have said to Satan in the wilderness, "I'll be glad to change those stones into bread," but used the Word of God to stand fast against Satan instead. He did not rely on His own divinity to do this but rather that of His Father. This is the rather clear difference between Jesus as God and Jesus as man.