Your WORKS won't do it.

[Kenny'sID]

Hello, Scripture says that there is No One who Does good..Romans 3:12, Ecclesiastes 7:20...Indeed there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and Never sins..
Ezekiel 36:27...I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws...

OK, thanks for thr scripture, and that's a fact, in the absolute sense of the terms "Righteous" and "Good" we are not. And another verse is:

Mark 10:18

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (Jesus really was absolutely good and I think he may have been leaving that judgment to the Father at the time, but lets not let that confuse things..it's for another post)

At the same time, at the following site we see several verses on righteousness and how it is expected of us and if it is expected of us, then in affect, and baring absolute righteousness, we can be righteous, as righteous goes, or God would not expect it.

Same exact thing with being good, and I'll post scripture to prove it if you like.

So the conclusion, in the true sense of the word, none are good/righteous, but we are as good and righteous as we can be and that is what I refer to when I say good/righteous. Just as that is what I believe scripture refers to when it expects us to be good/righteous.

I explain the following in depth because I get the idea some think we are somehow forced to be good or that is done by some super power or miracle. Of course some would call the things that come out of man in the name of true love, a miracle, and they would be right, but only to that degree.

As to the "move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws" in the scripture you presented. IMO, that is no more than God.Christs Spirit/ his love moving us, as "move" in the context defined here from the Dictionary

: to prompt or rouse to the doing of something : persuade

IOW, the Spirit (simply the mind/ thoughts, morals of God in us) doesn't move us by force, or make us do anything but we do it because we are persuaded to want to, or moved by his love, as in more dictionary defs

: to stir the emotions, feelings, or passions of deeply moved by such kindness

So, because of being moved to, we do good/be as righteous as we will, and even enjoy it. Why wouldn't we? We got to make the choice, moved by Gods love to make that choice, and all he offers, we get heaven in the end and our lives improve vastly, at least mine did. iI nothing else because I now feel secure in that I am on the right road, and THAT is a lot. Besides, there is a general natural order to things and being good/righteous brings goodness back to us....what goes around, comes around, and all.

More than I wanted to get into, but probably all worth reading anyway, you decide if you see it as the truth

 

[Phil W]

Hello, Scripture says that there is No One who Does good..Romans 3:12, Ecclesiastes 7:20...Indeed there is no one on earth who is righteous, no one who does what is right and Never sins..

Perfectly appropriate for the OT...excluding Jesus that is.
But in this new covenant wherein we can be reborn of God's seed, we can be perfectly obedient.
That is just part of having a new, divine nature.

Ezekiel 36:27...I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws...

This prophesy has been fulfilled.
Thanks be to God !

 

[Robin Mauro]

Denial.

I agree, it is scary, and I'd guess for a few reasons, not all of them bad. The bad, because accepting it would mean they can no longer be selfish, and have it their way instead of Gods way. The spirit of Satan has caused them to think as they do, and we can put the truth right before them but denial will kick in and they will not even see it.

The not so bad, at least in a sense, is loved ones who accepted Christ but then lived like the devil and died in their sin, or are living in sin at present, something their family/friends have no control over, so they find away around that by going OSAS. But that is for their own piece of mind and it still falls back to being selfish. Instead, we should be teaching the truth and even more loudly, instead of not facing our fears, and leaving our whole eternity in the hands of a few preachers that keep a large congregation and the perks to that by teaching an easier but false/deadly way to heaven.

It also allows some to bring others to become "Christian" when otherwise they would not have done so because the truth/the fact we have to make effort is just too much to ask of some.

The thing is, for the reward, and considering gratitude God created us to begin with, not to mention he went to all this trouble of going through a thousands of years process to to put things together, and help us understand, including seeing his son die for us...what he asks of us in return is not a drop in the bucket.

Besides, once we get into trying to please God, life is so much better, and we feel so much more secure. Do these people that come here constantly starting threads in effort to reinforce their OSAS belief sound "secure" to you? Not to me, nothing even close to that. But I'm glad they are here, as at least some, if not most of them, want to be shown they are wrong because what they chose to latch on to in the past may be starting to not feel quit right.

Jesus's burden is light, but a burden nonetheless (OSAS removes burden completely, a hint in itself it is contrary the Christs teachings) and all considered, I agree with him ...it is light.

It took me a minute to figure out what OSAS meant. Once saved always saved. My mom, who recently passed, used to say that. I hope for her it was true. If she continued to believe it was.
But when I first started reading this thread the first thing I thought of was that saying, and how it is not a scripture. How easy it would have been for God to put that in there if it were true.

 

[pasifika]

OK, thanks for thr scripture, and that's a fact, in the absolute sense of the terms "Righteous" and "Good" we are not. And another verse is:

Mark 10:18

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (Jesus really was absolutely good and I think he may have been leaving that judgment to the Father at the time, but lets not let that confuse things..it's for another post)

At the same time, at the following site we see several verses on righteousness and how it is expected of us and if it is expected of us, then in affect, and baring absolute righteousness, we can be righteous, as righteous goes, or God would not expect it.

Same exact thing with being good, and I'll post scripture to prove it if you like.

So the conclusion, in the true sense of the word, none are good/righteous, but we are as good and righteous as we can be and that is what I refer to when I say good/righteous. Just as that is what I believe scripture refers to when it expects us to be good/righteous.

I explain the following in depth because I get the idea some think we are somehow forced to be good or that is done by some super power or miracle. Of course some would call the things that come out of man in the name of true love, a miracle, and they would be right, but only to that degree.

As to the "move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws" in the scripture you presented. IMO, that is no more than God.Christs Spirit/ his love moving us, as "move" in the context defined here from the Dictionary

: to prompt or rouse to the doing of something : persuade

IOW, the Spirit (simply the mind/ thoughts, morals of God in us) doesn't move us by force, or make us do anything but we do it because we are persuaded to want to, or moved by his love, as in more dictionary defs

: to stir the emotions, feelings, or passions of deeply moved by such kindness

So, because of being moved to, we do good/be as righteous as we will, and even enjoy it. Why wouldn't we? We got to make the choice, moved by Gods love to make that choice, and all he offers, we get heaven in the end and our lives improve vastly, at least mine did. iI nothing else because I now feel secure in that I am on the right road, and THAT is a lot. Besides, there is a general natural order to things and being good/righteous brings goodness back to us....what goes around, comes around, and all.

More than I wanted to get into, but probably all worth reading anyway, you decide if you see it as the truth

Hello Kenny, thank you for your time to reply to my post...there are couple of things to say in response to your post; 1. The Good and Righteous that mention in the bible is what is expected of us from God, and it's the Only level of acceptance in terms of "righteous " or Good from God's point of view to accept us as His Own...So, He provides All things necessary for us to be like Him in true Righteousness and Holiness...Ephesians 4:24

Our level of GOOD and righteous can never be good enough because God is Holy and He Alone is Holy..and if we are Not to be made Holy by Him, then there is No chance we can be with Him or Him dwell among Us...

2. The definition of "move"- to prompt or to rouse to the doing of something...
So, if the "Spirit" of God enabled us to move to doing something...then there is something we cannot do unless the Spirit is in us which moves us to do that something...

Thanks

 

[IntriKate]

To not accept the gift of his blood is an insult to the absolute agony he went through for us on the cross. He knows we cant get to heaven by works or being perfect thats the whole point of him coming to save us from our failure. If our heart is focused on him thats what he will see when he comes to take us home, not how many works we did. While we should be trying to follow his commandments it is not a separation of his love if we struggle with it. In our weakness he is strong.

 

[pasifika]

Perfectly appropriate for the OT...excluding Jesus that is.
But in this new covenant wherein we can be reborn of God's seed, we can be perfectly obedient.
That is just part of having a new, divine nature.


This prophesy has been fulfilled.
Thanks be to God !

Hello, people in OT and NT are All under the Power of Sin to start with...and are All saved by Grace of God...

The promised of the "Spirit " has made available for those who are of Christ..and it fulfillment in each and everyone of us Now and those in the future is still yet to come...

 

[Lost4words]

OSAS is an easy fix for those that think they can keep on sinning freely without a care. Thats how i see it.

 

[IntriKate]

We try to complicate our relationship with God and he wants us to be like children and just cling to him and love him. The rest is for him to deal with.

 

[IntriKate]

OSAS is an easy fix for those that think they can keep on sinning freely without a care. Thats how i see it.

You are twisting or misunderstanding the concept of grace. It is not a free pass to sin, it is to still be loved by our father if we struggle to be sinless, which we all do thats why he died on the cross.

 

[fwGod]

Jesus seemed to think that faith saves..."And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace." (Luke 7:50)

The context is not salvation- being born again, it's about deliverance (sesoken: sozo: deliverance, rescue) from her sins. Jesus forgave many of their sins, but, no one could be saved: born again, until after Jesus had gone to the cross. After that, at salvation the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in every heart that believes, however it would not happen to any of them because John said in 7:39, "By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified."

 

[Lost4words]

You are twisting or misunderstanding the concept of grace. It is not a free pass to sin, it is to still be loved by our father if we struggle to be sinless, which we all do thats why he died on the cross.

Yes but some think of it differently

 

[Kenny'sID]

Our level of GOOD and righteous can never be good enough because God is Holy and He Alone is Holy..and if we are Not to be made Holy by Him, then there is No chance we can be with Him or Him dwell among Us...

Yet, it at least appears, Jesus thinks otherwise because in the following he is essentially saying, "If we do good, and of course he will say how much was enough...we will go to heaven, and if we are evil enough we will go to hell". Since we know if say, we give one dollar to a Church and that's it for our lifeline of good, and otherwise, we live like the devil, that will not be enough good. Meaning, he simply has to weigh it all out and end up with good enough, or not, which in turn does mean we can do good enough for Christ who will Judge us. But, that still don't mean we are truly good.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."

2. The definition of "move"- to prompt or to rouse to the doing of something...
So, if the "Spirit" of God enabled us to move to doing something...then there is something we cannot do unless the Spirit is in us which moves us to do that something...

I see the "move" in the context of the definition I mentioned, in that the only way it could be seen as God enabling us, is that he loved us, hence moving our hearts with his kindness. We may be saying the same thing there.

 

[Kenny'sID]

To not accept the gift of his blood is an insult to the absolute agony he went through for us on the cross.

Do you actually know any Christian that does not accept his blood? Or does OSAS just make the claim they don't? As far as I know all Christians accept that as the very basics of their belief. Have you even asked non OSAS if they accept that, and if not, give it a try and see what you find.

Things like that are designed by leaders of OSAS to put a guilt trip on those that don't accept OSAS, in order to trick others into coming over to their side.

They are basically told they are guilty of not accepting the gift of Jesus's blood if they do not go with OSAS. But that deception and others like it (there are plenty) works only on the unaware, or the babes in Christ who are seeking, or those who aren't into doing what it really takes to get to heaven, but instead they deceive themselves into being comfortable with there easy way salvation when it leads to anything but salvation in the end.

The truth, and the trick of the matter is, We've always accepted the blood of Christ, so you see now, it's a complete deception/false claim to begin with... the only way OSAS can get others to their side.

That is exactly how the Devil works.

Do you disagree? Then do as i asked and aks them and you will find, the only reason it is claimed we do not accept the gift of his blood is because OSAS SAY's it's a fact when it is not, making it the very deception/trick I just said it was.

 

[jahel]

Do you actually know any Christian that does not accept his blood? Or does OSAS just make the claim they don't? As far as I know all Christians accept that as the very basics of their belief. Have you even asked non OSAS if they accept that, and if not, give it a try and see what you find.

Things like that are designed by leaders of OSAS to put a guilt trip on those that don't accept OSAS, in order to trick others into coming over to their side.

They are basically told they are guilty of not accepting the gift of Jesus's blood if they do not go with OSAS. But that deception and others like it (there are plenty) works only on the unaware, or the babes in Christ who are seeking, or those who aren't into doing what it really takes to get to heaven, but instead they deceive themselves into being comfortable with there easy way salvation when it leads to anything but salvation in the end.

The truth, and the trick of the matter is, We've always accepted the blood of Christ, so you see now, it's a complete deception/false claim to begin with... the only way OSAS can get others to their side.

That is exactly how the Devil works.

Do you disagree? Then do as i asked and answer the question, and you will find, the only reason it is claimed we do not accept the gift of his blood is because OSAS SAY's it's a fact when it is not, making it the very deception/trick I just said it was.

Tricks of the devil are used to get people to believe OSAS? The guilty conscience is the only thing that doesn’t accept the blood because it never goes to receive it. Mirey clay

 

[Kenny'sID]

How easy it would have been for God to put that in there if it were true.

Sometimes the simplest, most basic of truths are the very best, and yours is a fantastic point.

If Jesus meant it to be so he would have said it was so....end of story.

As to your Mom, lets just hope, and I do think it very possible, if people are deceived into believing OSAS, yet still live their life to please God, God will see that and make adjustement for them.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Tricks of the devil are used to get people to believe OSAS?

Yes.

The guilty conscience is the only thing that doesn’t accept the blood.

No I idea what that one means to you, please explain..

I accept the blood that allowed me to get forgiveness, meaning the guilt is no longer necessary as long as we have repented and stay with our walk with Christ within reason, then if we mess up, simply repent again.

So, not seeing where the guilt you mention is coming from??

 

[pasifika]

Yet, it at least appears, Jesus thinks otherwise because in the following he is essentially saying, "If we do good, and of course he will say how much was enough...we will go to heaven, and if we are evil enough we will go to hell". Since we know if say, we give one dollar to a Church and that's it for our lifeline of good, and otherwise, we live like the devil, that will not be enough good. Meaning, he simply has to weigh it all out and end up with good enough, or not, which in turn does mean we can do good enough for Christ who will Judge us. But, that still don't mean we are truly good.

John 5:28 “Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned."



I see the "move" in the context of the definition I mentioned, in that the only way it could be seen as God enabling us, is that he loved us, hence moving our hearts with his kindness. We may be saying the same thing there.

I think the "good" mentioned in the bible is the good Only God will accept as I mentioned in my previous post. The good we are doing on our own is Not that kind of good because that "good" is only according to us...

Some examples,...1Corinthians 13:3..if I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may "boast", but do Not have love, I gain Nothing...

We can see that people can do good to the poor, by giving or hard work....But that is Not the Good that is of God because their heart is not in right place ...they want people to see their deeds and to give praise..

But,
the good that is from God is the good work we do out of the love of God in our heart...the Love of God in our hearts bring forth good works...that is why the "Spirit " is given to enabled us to do good works...

 

[jahel]

Yes.

Hence the mired clay reference.

No I idea what that one means to you, please explain..

I accept the blood that allowed me to get forgiveness, meaning the guilt is no longer necessary as long as we have repented and stay with our walk with Christ within reason, then if we mess up, simply repent again.

So, not seeing where the guilt you mention is coming from??

Your comment was about the blood that can only be found at the throne of grace for the removal of a guilty conscience, which was what you used to attack another for no reason that I could see. Maybe you should explain to her.

The other accusations from you make it plain the spirit behind your words can only come from the accuser. I have no further comment.

 

[Kenny'sID]

I think the "good" mentioned in the bible is the good Only God will accept as I mentioned in my previous post. The good we are doing on our own is Not that kind of good because that "good" is only according to us...

Some examples,...1Corinthians 13:3..if I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may "boast", but do Not have love, I gain Nothing...

We can see that people can do good to the poor, by giving or hard work....But that is Not the Good that is of God because their heart is not in right place ...they want people to see their deeds and to give praise..

But,
the good that is from God is the good work we do out of the love of God in our heart...the Love of God in our hearts bring forth good works...that is why the "Spirit " is given to enabled us to do good works...

I gave you my reasoning on how Jesus pretty much has to say we were good enough as some point when judging us in the end. And since he makes his expectation 100% clear in the scripture I posted, it seems a very solid/logical stance to me me he will measure "good", and I agree the good should come out of love..

If our ideas vary, somewhat so be it.

 

[pasifika]

I gave you my reasoning on how Jesus pretty much has to say we were good enough as some point when judging us in the end. And since he makes his expectation 100% clear in the scripture I posted, it seems a very solid/logical stance to me me he will measure "good", and I agree the good should come out of love..

If our ideas vary, somewhat so be it.

Well, if we are good enough without any efforts from God in making us good...then Christ died for Nothing...

If you agree that good comes out of love..then you must also know that love is Only comes from God Not US. ..