Your Turn - Ask a Jew -- a Jew's View

[ImAHebrew]

You misunderstand scripture again: those passages only deal with each man being responsible and accountable for his own sins. These scriptures do not void the purpose of the animal sacrifices in the old testament where an innnocent animal was killed in place of us to take away our sins through the shedding of its blood: Christ fulfilled this by taking our punishment for us so that we might be saved. This of course does not mean that we are saved forever: for as Jesus told the adulterous woman to go and sin no more, so too are we to remain free from sin once we have been saved, else we will die in our sins if we remain in them.
And the American soldiers died for our country so yes, they died in the place of the people: not for atonement of sins but, for the continuity of our country. Someone's got to die after all and, how gracious of our Lord Christ Jesus who died on our behalf to wipe away our sins and give us a clean slate in order to start fresh and keep ourselves free from sinning further.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, your take or understanding of sacrifice is just like the Jews, give Elohim the shed blood of something innocent and perfect, and He will be happy and satisfied. Such a Strong Delusion you are under (Isaiah 1:11). You highly esteem how you justify yourself by the shedding of innocent blood, yet to Elohim, that is ABOMINABLE:

Luk 16:15
(15) And He said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but Elohim knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men (the shedding of "Jesus" blood) is abomination in the sight of Elohim.

In fact, the shedding of His Innocent Blood IS the Abomination which causes Desolation (Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14), and WHEN you "see" it, as The Scripture can "open" up to you, you need to FLEE to the Mountains of Righteousness (Psalms 36:6), and PRAY that you have fled BEFORE Shabbat begins (Matthew 24:20).

You see YHWH_will_uplift, the shedding of Innocent Blood IS abominable to Yahweh Elohim (Proverbs 6:17), and those who try to use the shedding of Innocent Blood to justify themselves BEFORE Elohim, better have their sin in REMISSION, otherwise, they will continue in the Shedding of His Innocent Blood (Deuteronomy 21:9, Isaiah 59:7), and that would be "curtains" for anyone to do so. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, your take or understanding of sacrifice is just like the Jews, give Elohim the shed blood of something innocent and perfect, and He will be happy and satisfied. Such a Strong Delusion you are under (Isaiah 1:11). You highly esteem how you justify yourself by the shedding of innocent blood, yet to Elohim, that is ABOMINABLE:

Luk 16:15
(15) And He said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but Elohim knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men (the shedding of "Jesus" blood) is abomination in the sight of Elohim.

In fact, the shedding of His Innocent Blood IS the Abomination which causes Desolation (Matthew 24:15, Mark 13:14), and WHEN you "see" it, as The Scripture can "open" up to you, you need to FLEE to the Mountains of Righteousness (Psalms 36:6), and PRAY that you have fled BEFORE Shabbat begins (Matthew 24:20).

You see YHWH_will_uplift, the shedding of Innocent Blood IS abominable to Yahweh Elohim (Proverbs 6:17), and those who try to use the shedding of Innocent Blood to justify themselves BEFORE Elohim, better have their sin in REMISSION, otherwise, they will continue in the Shedding of His Innocent Blood (Deuteronomy 21:9, Isaiah 59:7), and that would be "curtains" for anyone to do so. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Right...so please prove to me that all the scriptures were changed in the old and new testament. From what you are telling me guilty blood of animals should have been sacrificed to atone for sins: therefore a guilty Jesus(i.e. a sinful Jesus) should have died on the cross in order to atone for our sins? This is blasphemous as an imperfect sacrifice (i.e. one with a blemish or sickness) would never be accepted by God.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Right...so please prove to me that all the scriptures were changed in the old and new testament. From what you are telling me guilty blood of animals should have been sacrificed to atone for sins: therefore a guilty Jesus(i.e. a sinful Jesus) should have died on the cross in order to atone for our sins? This is blasphemous as an imperfect sacrifice (i.e. one with a blemish or sickness) would never be accepted by God.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, try to follow me here, as you are not really understanding. Yahweh Elohim is not concerned with killing something in your stead, so that He can forgive you. The Jews thought that, and what did it get them? What Elohim desires is not the KILLING of the Sacrifice, but rather the KILLING of the sinner. He desires that the SINNER die WITH the offering, and that the SINNER'S sin GOES INTO remission. Now, He has BLESSED up by ALLOWING us to KILL our sin offering, Yeshua Messiah, who willingly GAVE His Life for us, so that OUR sin would be TURNED from:

Act 3:26
(26) Unto you first Elohim, having raised up his Son Yeshua, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

You see, the Jews AND christianity seem to be concerned with the turning away from the punishment or penalty of sin, but not with the turning away FROM sin itself. Can you grasp the difference? If your sin goes INTO remission, you don't have to worry about a penalty, because ONLY sinners have to worry about the punishment or penalty of sin...which is death. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, try to follow me here, as you are not really understanding. Yahweh Elohim is not concerned with killing something in your stead, so that He can forgive you. The Jews thought that, and what did it get them? What Elohim desires is not the KILLING of the Sacrifice, but rather the KILLING of the sinner. He desires that the SINNER die WITH the offering, and that the SINNER'S sin GOES INTO remission. Now, He has BLESSED up by ALLOWING us to KILL our sin offering, Yeshua Messiah, who willingly GAVE His Life for us, so that OUR sin would be TURNED from:

Act 3:26
(26) Unto you first Elohim, having raised up his Son Yeshua, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

You see, the Jews AND christianity seem to be concerned with the turning away from the punishment or penalty of sin, but not with the turning away FROM sin itself. Can you grasp the difference? If your sin goes INTO remission, you don't have to worry about a penalty, because ONLY sinners have to worry about the punishment or penalty of sin...which is death. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Okay so what point have you really made? God has made this clear numerous times that even though we are forgiven of our sins and know that God is merciful: we are not to add sin upon sin. If that was the case then why did not Adam and Eve offer up a sacrifice to God for their sins in order that they might be allowed back into the garden and then we wouldn't need Jesus to come down into the flesh and we wouldn't be here talking about this. You need to get your mind straightened brother.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Okay so what point have you really made? God has made this clear numerous times that even though we are forgiven of our sins and know that God is merciful: we are not to add sin upon sin. If that was the case then why did not Adam and Eve offer up a sacrifice tto God for their sins in order that they might be allowed back into the garden and then we wouldn't need Jesus to come down into the flesh and we wouldn't be here talking about this. You need to get your mind straightened brother.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, continue to follow me here. Those who have come to a Knowledge of the Truth concerning what their sin causes (Yeshua's suffering and death), and do not love Him enough to STOP sinning, basically show Him NO MERCY. Those who continue IN their sin AFTER coming to a Knowledge of this Truth, place Him back up on the Cross anew, and publicly shame Him. Yeshua told the Jews to go and LEARN what it means, "I desire mercy, rather than sacrifice." Those who Know the Truth of what their sin did cause, will SHOW Him mercy by abstaining FROM their sin, as their sin goes INTO remission. If you continue in your sin AFTER KNOWING what your sin does to Him, this shows Him NO MERCY, and He desires MERCY, rather than Sacrificing Him. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, continue to follow me here. Those who have come to a Knowledge of the Truth concerning what their sin causes (Yeshua's suffering and death), and do not love Him enough to STOP sinning, basically show Him NO MERCY. Those who continue IN their sin AFTER coming to a Knowledge of this Truth, place Him back up on the Cross anew, and publicly shame Him. Yeshua told the Jews to go and LEARN what it means, "I desire mercy, rather than sacrifice." Those who Know the Truth of what their sin did cause, will SHOW Him mercy by abstaining FROM their sin, as their sin goes INTO remission. If you continue in your sin AFTER KNOWING what your sin does to Him, this shows Him NO MERCY, and He desires MERCY, rather than Sacrificing Him. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

You still did not answer my question about Adam and Eve. You stated that sinners were allowed to offer up animal sacrifices in place for themselves: therefore Jesus' crucifixion is meaningless because we somehow got it wrong that He would not suffer on our behalf since He Himself was not a sinner? By default you are claiming that the only way Jesus' crucifixion for us could've been valid is that He Himself needed to sin to atone for sins: this is blasphemy and I hope that this does not count as blasphemy towards the Holy Spirit: for in essence you are repeating what the Pharisees said about Christ: He casts out demons in the name of Beelzebub the Ruler of Demons. Remember that a house didvided against itself cannot stand.

 

[ImAHebrew]

You still did not answer my question about Adam and Eve. You stated that sinners were allowed to offer up animal sacrifices in place for themselves: therefore Jesus' crucifixion is meaningless because we somehow got it wrong that He would not suffer on our behalf since He Himself was not a sinner? By default you are claiming that the only way Jesus' crucifixion for us could've been valid is that He Himself needed to sin to atone for sins: this is blasphemy and I hope that this does not count as blasphemy towards the Holy Spirit: for in essence you are repeating what the Pharisees said about Christ: He casts out demons in the name of Beelzebub the Ruler of Demons. Remember that a house didvided against itself cannot stand.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, let me try to explain. Elohim's PLAN was for Adam and Eve to sin, they had NO choice, they were carnal flesh, and the flesh cannot and will not obey Elohim. This Plan was implemented by Elohim so that He could TEACH us what NOT to do (sin), and what to do (be obedient). It took allowing us to come to KNOW both Good and Evil for us to choose as He has chosen (The Good). The purpose of Sacrifice is to allow us to SEE what sin causes, and this then HELPS us to overcome sin. He is trying to bring us OUT from the DARKNESS we were forced to dwell in. All of us were dark, evil sinners, and when the LIGHT of the Gospel is SHOWN upon our hearts (our sacrificing Yeshua THRU our sin), we can be TURNED from that DARKNESS unto His Light. But it takes Yeshua willingly giving His Life, NOT in our stead, but rather to CHANGE us from our darkened state. His purpose is to FREE us FROM sin, rather than we should remain in it. In the process, we receive a FREE Gift, the Free Gift of RIGHTEOUSNESS (doing what the Law/Torah required that we should do--which is sacrifice). To our shame, we, with the help of wicked men, did Sacrifice Him, and He allowed us to do that WILLINGLY. This becomes a DOING of the Torah/Law for us as we are accomplishing the Just Requirement of the Law, by Him being OUR sin offering. He did not die in our stead, He died so that we could live. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, let me try to explain. Elohim's PLAN was for Adam and Eve to sin, they had NO choice, they were carnal flesh, and the flesh cannot and will not obey Elohim. This Plan was implemented by Elohim so that He could TEACH us what NOT to do (sin), and what to do (be obedient). It took allowing us to come to KNOW both Good and Evil for us to choose as He has chosen (The Good). The purpose of Sacrifice is to allow us to SEE what sin causes, and this then HELPS us to overcome sin. He is trying to bring us OUT from the DARKNESS we were forced to dwell in. All of us were dark, evil sinners, and when the LIGHT of the Gospel is SHOWN upon our hearts (our sacrificing Yeshua THRU our sin), we can be TURNED from that DARKNESS unto His Light. But it takes Yeshua willingly giving His Life, NOT in our stead, but rather to CHANGE us from our darkened state. His purpose is to FREE us FROM sin, rather than we should remain in it. In the process, we receive a FREE Gift, the Free Gift of RIGHTEOUSNESS (doing what the Law/Torah required that we should do--which is sacrifice). To our shame, we, with the help of wicked men, did Sacrifice Him, and He allowed us to do that WILLINGLY. This becomes a DOING of the Torah/Law for us as we are accomplishing the Just Requirement of the Law, by Him being OUR sin offering. He did not die in our stead, He died so that we could live. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Lol! Okay...we're done conversating here. Adam and Eve had the choice from the beginning to not disobey: they were not made to be robots. Abel died without sin, Enoch and Elijah were taken up to heaven and did not die in sin--as they never died--nor did they sin while on earth so, your argument fails.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Lol! Okay...we're done conversating here. Adam and Eve had the choice from the beginning to not disobey: they were not made to be robots. Abel died without sin, Enoch and Elijah were taken up to heaven and did not die in sin--as they never died--nor did they sin while on earth so, your argument fails.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, my argument does not fail, what fails is your understanding of my argument. You see, IF you properly understood Paul, you would agree with him that the FIRST Adam was made/created/sown in CORRUPTION, DISHONOUR, WEAKNESS, with a NATURAL/CARNAL body of FLESH/EARTH (1 Corinthians 15:42-44). And JUST as Adam was made/created/sown, so are ALL of those who are FLESH/EARTH/EARTHY, because this physical/carnal man HAD to be FIRST, and THEN the Spiritual Man (1 Corinthians 15:46). You try to make it appear that Adam was Spiritual and Good, yet the Scriptures plainly state otherwise. They were NAKED, and nakedness is symbolic of not being clothed with RIGHTEOUSNESS (Revelation 3:18, Revelation 16:15, Revelation 19:8), yet they felt NO SHAME because their nakedness had not yet been exposed UNTIL they were disobedient to the law they were given (Genesis 2:25, Genesis 3:7, Genesis 3:11). And speaking of The Most Naked, in Genesis 3:1, the word used for "subtil" is the exact same word (plural form in Genesis 2:25 [H6174], and singular form in Genesis 3:1 [H6175] used in the prior verse concerning Adam and Eve's nakedness, but the translators would not use the word "naked." This should tell you that Adam and Eve were naked BEFORE they sinned, and it took sinning for them to realize they WERE naked (Genesis 3:6-11), just like how a SERPENT is naked. Their FLESH/CARNALITY was exposed THROUGH their disobedience, and IF they had OBEYED, and not eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, it would have foiled Elohim's plan. Elohim desires that ALL be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth, and for that to happen, we FIRST had to dwell in EGYPT (sin/darkness), and then be DELIVERED out from that bondage/slavery to sin, and Adam & Eve show us this by THEIR nakedness PRIOR to eating from the Tree.

I know you think this reasoning is wrong, but you should continue to consider it. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, my argument does not fail, what fails is your understanding of my argument. You see, IF you properly understood Paul, you would agree with him that the FIRST Adam was made/created/sown in CORRUPTION, DISHONOUR, WEAKNESS, with a NATURAL/CARNAL body of FLESH/EARTH (1 Corinthians 15:42-44). And JUST as Adam was made/created/sown, so are ALL of those who are FLESH/EARTH/EARTHY, because this physical/carnal man HAD to be FIRST, and THEN the Spiritual Man (1 Corinthians 15:46). You try to make it appear that Adam was Spiritual and Good, yet the Scriptures plainly state otherwise. They were NAKED, and nakedness is symbolic of not being clothed with RIGHTEOUSNESS (Revelation 3:18, Revelation 16:15, Revelation 19:8), yet they felt NO SHAME because their nakedness had not yet been exposed UNTIL they were disobedient to the law they were given (Genesis 2:25, Genesis 3:7, Genesis 3:11). And speaking of The Most Naked, in Genesis 3:1, the word used for "subtil" is the exact same word (plural form in Genesis 2:25 [H6174], and singular form in Genesis 3:1 [H6175] used in the prior verse concerning Adam and Eve's nakedness, but the translators would not use the word "naked." This should tell you that Adam and Eve were naked BEFORE they sinned, and it took sinning for them to realize they WERE naked (Genesis 3:6-11), just like how a SERPENT is naked. Their FLESH/CARNALITY was exposed THROUGH their disobedience, and IF they had OBEYED, and not eaten of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, it would have foiled Elohim's plan. Elohim desires that ALL be saved and come to a knowledge of the Truth, and for that to happen, we FIRST had to dwell in EGYPT (sin/darkness), and then be DELIVERED out from that bondage/slavery to sin, and Adam & Eve show us this by THEIR nakedness PRIOR to eating from the Tree.

I know you think this reasoning is wrong, but you should continue to consider it. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Your argument fails because it relies on God having begun everything in darkness which is contrary to scripture, Genesis 1:1 tells us that God made three things before introducing the waters, darkness, and the light:

1) Time (In the beginning).
2) Space (the heavens).
3) Matter (the earth).

Therfore before God created the light and the darkness (Genesis 1:2-5 Cf. Isaiah 45:7): He is the Light of Day and therefore was working in the day when He created time, the heavens and the earth. If this were not so then that would make the darkness, waters, and earth preexistent with Him, which is false as nothing created existed with Him. It stands that after these three creations God continued by creating the darkness and the waters, yet He was still working in the Light as He is he Light (see Genesis 1:2 cf. Daniel 2:22, I John 1:5) and was not working in complete physical or spiritual darkness. Therefore the heavens and the earth were created in a timely order in His Light but, quickly fell into the untimely chaos of darkness: therefore God called the Light from the Darkness in order to save mankind who had been drowned to die in the waters only to be raised up on the third day to bear fruit: here we have a prototype of the stoy of Noah where God flooded all of mankind in order to cleanse the earth of sin: it follows that this is a prototype for baptism and putting off the old man which became dead with sin and being raised up a new Adam (man) being made after the Image (Body) and the Likeness (Spirit) of God by following His Son Christ Jesus: who rose after three days and nights in the grave and rose on the 6th Day of the Week as the new Adam: just as Adam was raised from the dust of the earth on the 6th Day: therefore God said, "Let Us make man in Our Image, after Our Likeness...".

 

[ImAHebrew]

Your argument fails because it relies on God having begun everything in darkness which is contrary to scripture, Genesis 1:1 tells us that God made three things before introducing the waters, darkness, and the light:

1) Time (In the beginning).
2) Space (the heavens).
3) Matter (the earth).

Therfore before God created the light and the darkness (Genesis 1:2-5 Cf. Isaiah 45:7): He is the Light of Day and therefore was working in the day when He created time, the heavens and the earth. If this were not so then that would make the darkness, waters, and earth preexistent with Him, which is false as nothing created existed with Him. It stands that after these three creations God continued by creating the darkness and the waters, yet He was still working in the Light as He is he Light (see Genesis 1:2 cf. Daniel 2:22, I John 1:5) and was not working in complete physical or spiritual darkness. Therefore the heavens and the earth were created in a timely order in His Light but, quickly fell into the untimely chaos of darkness: therefore God called the Light from the Darkness in order to save mankind who had been drowned to die in the waters only to be raised up on the third day to bear fruit: here we have a prototype of the stoy of Noah where God flooded all of mankind in order to cleanse the earth of sin: it follows that this is a prototype for baptism and putting off the old man which became dead with sin and being raised up a new Adam (man) being made after the Image (Body) and the Likeness (Spirit) of God by following His Son Christ Jesus: who rose after three days and nights in the grave and rose on the 6th Day of the Week as the new Adam: just as Adam was raised from the dust of the earth on the 6th Day: therefore God said, "Let Us make man in Our Image, after Our Likeness...".

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, you know you have it just a little bit right. In the Beginning, when the Heavens and Earth were created there was LIGHT, but as you indicated the heavens and earth "FELL into the untimely chaos of darkness." Genesis 1:2 really states that the earth became without form (H8414) and void (H922), and darkness covered the face of the deep. It was not like that in the BEGINNING, as Isaiah 45:18 states:

Isa 45:18
(18) For thus saith Yahweh that created the heavens; Elohim himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain (H8414), He formed it to be inhabited: I am Yahweh; and there is none else.

In the Beginning Yahweh created the heavens and earth, and He did NOT create it (H8414), but it BECAME that way as there was a rebellion that introduced DARKNESS and EVIL (Satan and 1/3 of the angels). There is a great deal amount of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and it is as Psalms 104:30 indicates, that Yahweh SENT forth His Spirit and "THEY" were created, and the face of the earth was RENEWED:

Psa 104:30
(30) Thou sendest forth Thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

At this RENEWAL, when Yahweh Elohim created Adam and Eve, the FACE of the deep was in DARKNESS (Genesis 1:2), but Elohim said, Let there be LIGHT, and there was LIGHT, so in this RENEWAL of the FACE of the earth, DARKNESS was FIRST, and THEN there was LIGHT....the evening and then the morning, the FIRST day.

So you are incorrect in thinking that Adam and Eve were created as Spiritual Righteous children KNOWING good and evil, they were created just like how you and I were, in the WEAKNESS and CORRUPTION of the flesh, total darkness.

Here is one that should settle our differences. Paul states in Romans 5:14 that Adam is a "figure" of the One to come. Can you explain how Adam is a figure or type of The One to come? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[Estherisrael]

בס"ד
Hashem is definitely sending us signs, but making sure that no one understands the signs except for those who follow Hashem completely. In other words, it is obviously not obvious to the amateurs reporting it or the idolaters who see all the changes happening on planet Earth, but do not understand it. What is happening is only meaningful to Hashem's faithful followers.

The amateurs, who are more confused than helpful, know nothing about all the sources that are giving us good information

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, you know you have it just a little bit right. In the Beginning, when the Heavens and Earth were created there was LIGHT, but as you indicated the heavens and earth "FELL into the untimely chaos of darkness." Genesis 1:2 really states that the earth became without form (H8414) and void (H922), and darkness covered the face of the deep. It was not like that in the BEGINNING, as Isaiah 45:18 states:

Isa 45:18
(18) For thus saith Yahweh that created the heavens; Elohim himself that formed the earth and made it; He hath established it, He created it not in vain (H8414), He formed it to be inhabited: I am Yahweh; and there is none else.

In the Beginning Yahweh created the heavens and earth, and He did NOT create it (H8414), but it BECAME that way as there was a rebellion that introduced DARKNESS and EVIL (Satan and 1/3 of the angels). There is a great deal amount of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2, and it is as Psalms 104:30 indicates, that Yahweh SENT forth His Spirit and "THEY" were created, and the face of the earth was RENEWED:

Psa 104:30
(30) Thou sendest forth Thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

At this RENEWAL, when Yahweh Elohim created Adam and Eve, the FACE of the deep was in DARKNESS (Genesis 1:2), but Elohim said, Let there be LIGHT, and there was LIGHT, so in this RENEWAL of the FACE of the earth, DARKNESS was FIRST, and THEN there was LIGHT....the evening and then the morning, the FIRST day.

So you are incorrect in thinking that Adam and Eve were created as Spiritual Righteous children KNOWING good and evil, they were created just like how you and I were, in the WEAKNESS and CORRUPTION of the flesh, total darkness.

Here is one that should settle our differences. Paul states in Romans 5:14 that Adam is a "figure" of the One to come. Can you explain how Adam is a figure or type of The One to come? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

You contradict yourself again as you said that Adam and Eve could not have been created righteous first and then fell into unrighteousness; but, yet somehow the angels were not created in darkness but the rest of God's creations were? You still wish to hold onto the vain opinion that God began everything in darkness when Genesis 1:1 makes it clear that He created three things in His light:

1) Time (In the beginning)
2) Space (Heavens)
3) Matter (Earth)

If light is righteousness and darkness is good then, we see that all in heaven and earth were first righteous; and, once the darkness was introduced many in heaven and earth fell into unrighteousness.
We see then that God created darkness and the light as king Solomon wisely notes:

"The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
-Proverbs 16:4

And which came first, the chicken or the egg? We know chicken came first because the egg cannot care for and hatch itself: therefore Adam and Eve (Chickens) knew good from evil as they were the first humans to not go through the natural nine month birthing process and, were able to reason with the serpent concerning good and evil before falling into sin.

 

[ImAHebrew]

You contradict yourself again as you said that Adam and Eve could not have been created righteous first and then fell into unrighteousness; but, yet somehow the angels were not created in darkness but the rest of God's creations were? You still wish to hold onto the vain opinion that God began everything in darkness when Genesis 1:1 makes it clear that He created three things in His light:

1) Time (In the beginning)
2) Space (Heavens)
3) Matter (Earth)

If light is righteousness and darkness is good then, we see that all in heaven and earth were first righteous; and, once the darkness was introduced many in heaven and earth fell into unrighteousness.
We see then that God created darkness and the light as king Solomon wisely notes:

"The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
-Proverbs 16:4

And which came first, the chicken or the egg? We know chicken came first because the egg cannot care for and hatch itself: therefore Adam and Eve (Chickens) knew good from evil as they were the first humans to not go through the natural nine month birthing process and, were able to reason with the serpent concerning good and evil before falling into sin.

Shabbat Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, so, you deny that "in the beginning" was many ages prior to the RENEWAL by the Spirit of Elohim found in Genesis 1:2? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ImAHebrew]

בס"ד
Hashem is definitely sending us signs, but making sure that no one understands the signs except for those who follow Hashem completely. In other words, it is obviously not obvious to the amateurs reporting it or the idolaters who see all the changes happening on planet Earth, but do not understand it. What is happening is only meaningful to Hashem's faithful followers.

The amateurs, who are more confused than helpful, know nothing about all the sources that are giving us good information

Shabbat Shalom Estherisrael, I'm not sure you were posting to me, but would you consider me to be an "amateur"? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shabbat Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, so, you deny that "in the beginning" was many ages prior to the RENEWAL by the Spirit of Elohim found in Genesis 1:2? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Not sure where you get the idea of "many ages" when Genesis 1:1-5 only discusses one day passing...
And as for Adam being a figure of the One to come: He was the only man to not be born of a woman nor have earthly parents: therefore Adam qualifies as the Son of God. Furthermore Adam being made in the Image and Likeness of God: is a fulfillment of the Word becoming flesh and dwelling among us. Adam was in the earth for three days and nights before being raised from the dust of the earth on the 6th day: Christ was the slain Passover Lamb on the 3rd day and raised three days and nights later on the 6th day. Adam was given dominion over the animals in the heavens, the earth, and the sea: which represents Christ's 1,000 year reign on earth over the nations once the 6,000th year has commenced. The marriage between Adam and Eve represents the marriage between Jesus and the Church.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

@ImAHebrew In addition look at the mysterious title Son of Man. This is not referring to any son of earthly origin: remember that man in Hebrew is Adam so, the title would read Son of Adam. Adam as we know had more than one son so, which 'son' is being referred to? We see Abel as a type of Christ who was slain as a virgin and had committed no evil and his birth and death came about as a breath or a vapor; and, his brother Cain (i.e. the spear) are a type of the Jews who would kill their own righteous brother who had done no wrong; Seth in the Hebrew means to put: so we see that the Son of Man is the be killed, and pierced with a spear; and, this same Son of Man would also live a short life which would seem like vanity to those who knew such a righteous Man; and, this same man would then have the breath put into Him in order that He might live again in the Image and Likeness of God: the only Biblical person to qualify as such would be Jesus who was killed by His own brethren and pierced in the side with a spear, who after three days and nights rose from the dead and had the breath of life put into Him and be raised up in the Image and Likeness God as the new Adam. Because Adam and Christ are the only two to not have biological blood parents: they qualify as the Son of God: therefore is Christ called the Son of Adam.

 

[ImAHebrew]

@ImAHebrew In addition look at the mysterious title Son of Man. This is not referring to any son of earthly origin: remember that man in Hebrew is Adam so, the title would read Son of Adam. Adam as we know had more than one son so, which 'son' is being referred to? We see Abel as a type of Christ who was slain as a virgin and had committed no evil and his birth and death came about as a breath or a vapor; and, his brother Cain (i.e. the spear) are a type of the Jews who would kill their own righteous brother who had done no wrong; Seth in the Hebrew means to put: so we see that the Son of Man is the be killed, and pierced with a spear; and, this same Son of Man would also live a short life which would seem like vanity to those who knew such a righteous Man; and, this same man would then have the breath put into Him in order that He might live again in the Image and Likeness of God: the only Biblical person to qualify as such would be Jesus who was killed by His own brethren and pierced in the side with a spear, who after three days and nights rose from the dead and had the breath of life put into Him and be raised up in the Image and Likeness God as the new Adam. Because Adam and Christ are the only two to not have biological blood parents: they qualify as the Son of God: therefore is Christ called the Son of Adam.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, so you really didn't follow Paul's logic as to how Adam is a type of the One to come. Paul explains it in the first sentence of the very next verse, but it takes understanding Paul to grasp his explanation in how he was thinking about the comparison between Adam and Messiah. It was NOT with the OFFENSE, rather the free gift. They compare in that they BOTH gave mankind something, and Adam's gift of condemnation and death, was the result of ONE offense, but the Gift of Righteousness from Messiah was the result of MANY offenses (v16). To interpret Paul properly, it takes a great deal of insight from the Spirit of Messiah, the same Spirit that he had. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, so you really didn't follow Paul's logic as to how Adam is a type of the One to come. Paul explains it in the first sentence of the very next verse, but it takes understanding Paul to grasp his explanation in how he was thinking about the comparison between Adam and Messiah. It was NOT with the OFFENSE, rather the free gift. They compare in that they BOTH gave mankind something, and Adam's gift of condemnation and death, was the result of ONE offense, but the Gift of Righteousness from Messiah was the result of MANY offenses (v16). To interpret Paul properly, it takes a great deal of insight from the Spirit of Messiah, the same Spirit that he had. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

I followed it clearly and provided examples you're just catching feelings because you thought that I could not provide examples of Christ rising on the third day from the old testament. Also I was the one to point out to you how Adam was a type of Christ.

 

[ImAHebrew]

I followed it clearly and provided examples you're just catching feelings because you thought that I could not provide examples of Christ rising on the third day from the old testament. Also I was the one to point out to you how Adam was a type of Christ.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, I'm wondering, why didn't you say it the way the Apostle Paul did...that the type is NOT with respect to the OFFENSE, RATHER the free gift? Here's the thing, there are only a few people in the world who understand what Paul was saying, and do you think you are one of them? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.