Your Turn - Ask a Jew -- a Jew's View

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, I'm wondering, why didn't you say it the way the Apostle Paul did...that the type is NOT with respect to the OFFENSE, RATHER the free gift? Here's the thing, there are only a few people in the world who understand what Paul was saying, and do you think you are one of them? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Lol! Look at Adam more closely in how he rose on the 6th Day from the dust of the ground and compare it to Genesis 1:9-13 where new life sprung forth from the ground and bore fruit: how can seeds bring life unless they are first sown into the ground and die? This is a type of the death and burial of Christ whose death brought many to life: and how much more did His resurrection bring in eternal life to those who believe on Him?

 

[ImAHebrew]

Lol! Look at Adam more closely in how he rose on the 6th Day from the dust of the ground and compare it to Genesis 1:9-13 where new life sprung forth from the ground and bore fruit: how can seeds bring life unless they are first sown into the ground and die? This is a type of the death and burial of Christ whose death brought many to life: and how much more did His resurrection bring in eternal life to those who believe on Him?

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, I thought we were talking about the last part of Romans 5:14, where Paul says Adam is a figure of the coming One, and then explains himself in the first sentence of the next verse...Romans 5:15..."But not with respect to the OFFENSE, rather, the Free Gift." YHWH_will_uplift, the CONTEXT is important, and in context, Paul is explaining how Adam is a type or figure of Messiah, and the type or figure can only be through the "gift" they both gave, not with the OFFENSE. Adam sinned, Yeshua did not, so there is no comparison when you look at the offense. And again, Paul in Romans 5:16, explains it's not according to the OFFENSE, because with Adam's gift, there was only ONE offense, but with Messiah's gift, it came as a result of MANY offenses. This is the crux of matter. Grace, the Free Gift of Righteousness, is a result of our sin KILLING Yeshua, and placing Him upon the Cross, and this is why Paul taught here that MANY offenses brought Messiah's gift. And if you follow Paul, he explains how the Law entered so that the offense of Adam could increase or abound (Romans 5:20), and that is what happened. When the Law entered, many more were given the opportunity to disobey a direct command from Elohim, and even though it was not a similar command as Adam broke, nonetheless, it still INCREASED the offense, as many were now in direct disobedience as what Adam was. So when the offense is increased, Grace is increased all the more, because it is BY sinning (the offense) that we Spiritually fulfill Sacrifice, and this becomes a DOING of the Law (The Free Gift of Righteousness), not by "works" but through the FAITH that Yeshua is OUR offering. Does that clear it up for you? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Sigh...just because Adam was a type of Christ does not mean that Christ mirrored the sinful actions of those who prefigured Him...I never stated that Jesus sinned as Adam did: I only showed you how Adam was a type of Christ through the Genesis account. And now you contradict yourself again as you made it clear that you do not believe in Christ being a substitute for us on the cross having died for our sins, and now you say that He is our offering?

 

[ImAHebrew]

Sigh...just because Adam was a type of Christ does not mean that Christ mirrored the sinful actions of those who prefigured Him...I never stated that Jesus sinned as Adam did: I only showed you how Adam was a type of Christ through the Genesis account. And now you contradict yourself again as you made it clear that you do not believe in Christ being a substitute for us on the cross having died for our sins, and now you say that He is our offering?

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, did you misunderstand Paul and myself? He, nor I, said that "Christ mirrored the sinful actions of those who prefigured Him." How did you come up with that misunderstanding? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, YHWH_will_uplift, the CONTEXT is important, and in context, Paul is explaining how Adam is a type or figure of Messiah, and the type or figure can only be through the "gift" they both gave, not with the OFFENSE. Adam sinned, Yeshua did not, so there is no comparison when you look at the offense. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

That is what you wrote which indicated that you misunderstood me.

 

[ImAHebrew]

That is what you wrote which indicated that you misunderstood me.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, where did you get the idea which made you think I was saying, "Christ mirrored the sinful actions of those who prefigured Him?" How did you come up with that misunderstanding? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, Adam sinned, Yeshua did not, so there is no comparison when you look at the offense. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, what you quoted from me does not say, "Christ mirrored the sinful actions of those who prefigured Him." What you just quoted says the exact opposite. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, what you quoted from me does not say, "Christ mirrored the sinful actions of those who prefigured Him." What you just quoted says the exact opposite. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Tsk...what I'm sayin is that you said that Christ did not sin like Adam did as if I said that Christ sinned because he was a type of the Christ to come.

 

[ImAHebrew]

Tsk...what I'm sayin is that you said that Christ did not sin like Adam did as if I said that Christ sinned because he was a type of the Christ to come.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, I think you may have read a little more into what I said, than what I meant. Again, Paul states that Adam is in some way similar (a type or figure) to Messiah (the coming one), but it is NOT with the OFFENSE, rather (or in this manner), the Free Gift. The translators did not grasp what Paul was trying to say so they translated the Greek as "so also" instead of "rather" or "in this manner." It was "in this manner" (G3779) that Adam was a type of Messiah...the free gift. So Paul was not trying to compare Adam and Messiah with the OFFENSE, ONLY with the GIFT they gave. Adam gave death and condemnation, through just ONE offense, Messiah's Gift of Righteousness came as a result of MANY offenses. So the comparison or type is not with the offense, rather (or in this manner), the free gift. Paul was not thinking at all about YOUR explanation of how they compared according to Genesis, Paul was speaking about the GIFT they both gave to mankind, and that makes the comparison or the type. Please, try to see this. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, I think you may have read a little more into what I said, than what I meant. Again, Paul states that Adam is in some way similar (a type or figure) to Messiah (the coming one), but it is NOT with the OFFENSE, rather (or in this manner), the Free Gift. The translators did not grasp what Paul was trying to say so they translated the Greek as "so also" instead of "rather" or "in this manner." It was "in this manner" (G3779) that Adam was a type of Messiah...the free gift. So Paul was not trying to compare Adam and Messiah with the OFFENSE, ONLY with the GIFT they gave. Adam gave death and condemnation, through just ONE offense, Messiah's Gift of Righteousness came as a result of MANY offenses. So the comparison or type is not with the offense, rather (or in this manner), the free gift. Paul was not thinking at all about YOUR explanation of how they compared according to Genesis, Paul was speaking about the GIFT they both gave to mankind, and that makes the comparison or the type. Please, try to see this. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

Okay now that I understand where I misread you, I did not care to compare Adam and Christ with the gift only, I also wished to show how the offense brought about the gift (which is what Paul was demonstrating) to be offered upin order to atone for sins.
Still, I'm not sure what all this has to do with our original argument of the day beginning in the evening or the morning?

 

[ImAHebrew]

Okay now that I understand where I misread you, I did not care to compare Adam and Christ with the gift only, I also wished to show how the offense brought about the gift (which is what Paul was demonstrating) to be offered upin order to atone for sins.
Still, I'm not sure what all this has to do with our original argument of the day beginning in the evening or the morning?

Shabbat Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you for grasping what I was saying. If you read ALL commentators, and ALL theologians, they do not GRASP what Paul was saying about the comparison between Adam and Messiah THROUGH the gift ONLY. In fact, ALL translations try to indicate that there is a DIFFERENCE between them, instead of properly translating the Greek which shows the comparison is with the free gift, and not the offense. Now, YHWH_will_uplift, this should scare the bejibbers out of you, and it should also make you LISTEN a little better concerning WHEN the day begins. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[susan cramer]

Is anyone here a follower of "Passover" and if so why-?

just asking

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Is anyone here a follower of "Passover" and if so why-?

just asking

I am: and that is because we are commanded to observe it as the night that we were brought out of Egypt and passed over their land and the Red Sea with the power of YHWH Elohim. Also Paul and the other followers of Christ were still observing Passover after Christ died and was resurrected: the only difference is that Christ is now our Passover Lamb.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shabbat Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, thank you for grasping what I was saying. If you read ALL commentators, and ALL theologians, they do not GRASP what Paul was saying about the comparison between Adam and Messiah THROUGH the gift ONLY. In fact, ALL translations try to indicate that there is a DIFFERENCE between them, instead of properly translating the Greek which shows the comparison is with the free gift, and not the offense. Now, YHWH_will_uplift, this should scare the bejibbers out of you, and it should also make you LISTEN a little better concerning WHEN the day begins. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I'm sorry but, this does not prove that the day began in the evening.

 

[ImAHebrew]

I am: and that is because we are commanded to observe it as the night that we were brought out of Egypt and passed over their land and the Red Sea with the power of YHWH Elohim. Also Paul and the other followers of Christ were still observing Passover after Christ died and was resurrected: the only difference is that Christ is now our Passover Lamb.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, leaving Egypt AT night, should show you that NIGHT is the beginning of our coming INTO the DAY. Night FIRST, and then the LIGHT/Day. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, leaving Egypt AT night, should show you that NIGHT is the beginning of our coming INTO the DAY. Night FIRST, and then the LIGHT/Day. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

I really don't know where you get your reasoning from when you have failed to explain the Hebrew of Genesis 1:5 which says that it became evening and it became morning the first day. Just because Passover and the Day of Atonement are the only two times where we observe the feasts in the evening does not change when the day starts.

 

[YHWH_will_uplift]

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, leaving Egypt AT night, should show you that NIGHT is the beginning of our coming INTO the DAY. Night FIRST, and then the LIGHT/Day. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

It should become clear to you (hopefully) that since 2/7 feasts begin in the evening: therefore the 5/7 feasts begin in the morning: therefore the day begins in the morning.

 

[ImAHebrew]

It should become clear to you (hopefully) that since 2/7 feasts begin in the evening: therefore the 5/7 feasts begin in the morning: therefore the day begins in the morning.

Shalom YHWH_will_uplift, it will most definitely become clear to you ONCE there is no more darkness, and ONLY Light...darkness FIRST (Evening/Night), and THEN light, The Day (Morning/Light):

Romans 13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

1 John 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

Isaiah 60:19-20 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but Yahweh shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy Elohim thy glory. Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for Yahweh shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning (death/darkness) shall be ended.

Revelation 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for Yahweh Elohim giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

YHWH_will_uplift, mankind was FIRST made to dwell in DARKNESS (night/evening), and then the LIGHT was sent forth to BRING us out of that DARKNESS, into the DAY of Yahweh, to were there is NO MORE DARKNESS. Darkness/night FIRST and then came the morning/LIGHT...the 1st day, etc. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Okay so what point have you really made? God has made this clear numerous times that even though we are forgiven of our sins and know that God is merciful: we are not to add sin upon sin. If that was the case then why did not Adam and Eve offer up a sacrifice to God for their sins in order that they might be allowed back into the garden and then we wouldn't need Jesus to come down into the flesh and we wouldn't be here talking about this. You need to get your mind straightened brother.

When were Adam and Eve ever allowed back into the garden?

Don't think that happened.