Your thoughts please

[Secundulus]

Then why not use Anglican instead of Mormon~by attaching such a non-Christian group to the RCC & EO you are openly insulting them. It would be the exact same thing as saying "Lutherans and Westboro Baptists"..

Or maybe like Lutherans and Muslims. They both deny the authority of the Church.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Then why not use Anglican instead of Mormon

Okay. Anglicans and Mormons both enjoy singing! I think that's a fair and accurate statement. Now, if they were the only two groups known to me that enjoyed singing and this topic were about enjoying singing, it would be reasonable to post that Anglicans and Mormons are the two groups that enjoy singing.

Friend, I'm not sure if you are imputing some anti-LDS feelings of yours toward me or what. But I think it's way off topic and seems to be personal. Perhaps if you want to share your feelings about the RCC, LDS, Lutherans or Anglicans - perhaps you could take that to PM's?



.

 

[nhisname]

Hey I hope I don't sound stupid but this topic reminded me of my husband's question.

Unfortunately neither of us knew the answer.

If you are truly saved and you mess up like humans do. Lets say you curse someone out and then in the heat of it all have a heart attack and die but you were saved long before you died......
Do you still die and have eternal punishment (however and whenever that happens)
Or do you still get to have eternal life?

I am sorry for my ignorance in advanced but your good works vs faith based salvation topic brought this question to the table....

We both thought of that question because my husband and I read a news article where a guy died of a heart attack or something while having an all niter with two females while over dosing on viagra. MY husband automatically assumed eternal damnation while I said "We don't even know if he was saved before and all people are sinners and all people make mistakes so how do we know if he was saved and won't go to hell? We can't be the judge of what happens next. We can speculate but not be sure." But my husband said "I don't think that's how it works."

So we both came up with a list of scenarios of "What if xyz before you die and you were saved..."

So do you have an opinion on any of that?
I feel like a little kid playing the "What-if" game

If I should start a new topic instead of asking here let me know. Again sorry in advanced for my ignorance.

1 John 3: 9,10

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

[nhisname]

No new topic needed. No problem.

When we have "faith" and faith alone that Christ died in our place to make us perfect before God after this life when judgement comes, we are saved unto forever into His kingdom.

All nighter with two females & viagra or not.

Wouldn't you call this willful sinning? Read 1 John 3:9,10

 

[nhisname]

What does scripture say?

Jn 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Our salvaion does not depend upon our keeping the law


Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast.


No One Is Righteous
Ro 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin.
Ro 3:10 As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
Ro 3:11 there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
Ro 3:12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."
Ro 3:13 "Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit."
"The poison of vipers is on their lips."
Ro 3:14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness."
Ro 3:15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood;
Ro 3:16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
Ro 3:17 and the way of peace they do not know."
Ro 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
Ro 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God.
Ro 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.


Righteousness Through Faith, not through works or observing the law

Ro 3:21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Ro 3:22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,
Ro 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Ro 3:24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Ro 3:25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—
Ro 3:26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
Ro 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith.
Ro 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
Ro 3:29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too,
Ro 3:30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.
Ro 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

So then we are not saved by our keeping of the law, for as scripture says, all have broken the law and are worthy of death and eternal punishment, but God paid for our sins by His offering of His Son to redeem us, not because we had done anything to deserve it, but because of His grace.

We all sin many times in a single day, and most of the time we aren't even aware of our sins. There are sins of commition, such as murder, hating someone, adultry or greed, and there are sins of neglect or ommision such as neglecting to help someone in need, forgetting to offer prayers for others, forgetting to thank God for the thousands of blessings He bestows upon un everyday, and on and on, plus there are sins of eveil thoughts which many doen't even consider, what was it that Jesus said:

Mt 5:21 "You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’
Mt 5:22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ‘Raca,’ is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.

Mt 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, ‘Do not commit adultery.’
Mt 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

So are evil thoughts are grevious sins as well. In conclusion we are all doomed, but those who are in Jesus and trust in His salvation have a clean slate, because they trust in their Savior's forgiveness even when they haven't had time to say I'm sorry or ask for forgiveness before passing on as you said.

Again, our salvation does not depend upon our keeping the law as St Paul said in Romans above, it depends on faith in Jesus and that He paid for all sins, past, present and future

1 John 3:9,10

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are; Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

 

[MrJim]

Okay. Anglicans and Mormons both enjoy singing! I think that's a fair and accurate statement. Now, if they were the only two groups known to me that enjoyed singing and this topic were about enjoying singing, it would be reasonable to post that Anglicans and Mormons are the two groups that enjoy singing.

Friend, I'm not sure if you are imputing some anti-LDS feelings of yours toward me or what. But I think it's way off topic and seems to be personal. Perhaps if you want to share your feelings about the RCC, LDS, Lutherans or Anglicans - perhaps you could take that to PM's?



.

Feelings about RCC, Anglicans, & Lutherans, they're great, I could probably fit into any of the three with little effort with the right congregations. That the LDS is even mentioned in the same company is ridiculous. Anti LDS? Oh yeah, in fact CF is so anti-LDS they aren't allowed a forum in congregations

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Anti LDS? Oh yeah

... then, my friend, don't imputed it on me or others.

Again, if you want to express any anti-LDS views publicly, I'd suggest a different thread and forum. If you want to do so expressly to me, I'd suggest you go to PM's.

Let's move on?



.

 

[Secundulus]

Comparing LDS to any Christian denomination is farcical since they have an extra-biblical set of scriptures revealed to them by a 19th century prophet who denied the divinity of Jesus Christ.

At best they are Arians. At worst, they are something else entirely.

Yes, I know what they teach. I was a Mormon for two years.

 

[MrJim]

... then, my friend, don't imputed it on me or others.

Again, if you want to express any anti-LDS views publicly, I'd suggest a different thread and forum. If you want to do so expressly to me, I'd suggest you go to PM's.

Let's move on?



.

Fine, as long as you leave them out of your passive-aggressive assault against the Apostolic Churches all will be well.

 

[clint25n]

It all comes down to one thing.
GRACE - what is grace?.... Answer that and you have your answer...
You can't earn it, you can't lose it. Works and deeds are just evidence that you are a new creature.
If we die, and go into the court room of God and try to claim that we had anything to do with earning or keeping our salvation, we rob God of His glory. Our good works (aka. filthy rags) only put us further in debt with God because it is from God which are good works are even possible.

I would not dare to even entertain the thought that I have something to add to grace. I am hopeless, worthless and wretched apart from God.

A good tree bares good fruit (fruit does not make a tree good)

 

[Nadiine]

Your thoughts please
I've almost given up posting in some areas of CF regarding grace & faith vs works based salvation.

If a brother or sister in Christ doesn't "get it", at some point one must stop trying. So I ask those of you in this forum, at what point does one back away from further debate?

I'll be honest, there's PLENTY of places worthy of giving up in posting
on this site.
If it isn't demonic theology, it's people claiming they're Christians
while attacking God, Christians and Christianity.

here's a post I just got in reply about past history:

We were created in his image. He murders throughout the OT...but then commands us not to murder. He commands his armies to take the wealth and women from their defeated enemies (stealing)...but then commands us not to steal. Where did our depravity come from?

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=51096409&postcount=77

In another thread in a theology forum, we were given a lovely
"Christian" site link in support of "safe" abortion by someone
of the liberal persuasion....

Clergy for Choice believe that reproductive choice encompasses a wide range of issues, including access to safe and reliable family planning and contraception (PDF), comprehensive sexuality education (PDF), affordable childcare and health care, adoption services, and access to safe, legal, and affordable abortion service.

http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=50991446&postcount=24

Works based faith theology is almost a welcome deviation from
the utter demonic crap I'm reading on this CHRISTIAN website.
Dear Lord this is just a travesty.

I share your anger or frustration - or ... whatever.
It's pathetic that as Christians we have to sit here and argue
the very BASICS of Christianity on a Christian site.

I PITY non Christians who come here and read this mess.
I have no doubt they're more confused leaving this place
than they are coming in.

Satan never quits.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Interesting discussion.

Myself, I'm solidly on the side of Grace as opposed to Works-based Salvation. But while I enjoy Calvin as a writer (not saying I'm an expert on him; I've only just started to read his stuff for myself), my theology is more on track with Luther. I don't think you have to be Calvinist to get Grace right, though it does seem to help. But Lutherans have it right too, as does the WoF (!!) preacher, Joseph Prince.

~ Izzy, a Pentecostal advocate of radical Grace.

"If radical Grace is not preached, lives will not be radically changed." -- Joseph Prince

 

[JustAsIam77]

Works based faith theology is almost a welcome deviation from
the utter demonic crap I'm reading on this CHRISTIAN website.
Dear Lord this is just a travesty.

I share your anger or frustration - or ... whatever.
It's pathetic that as Christians we have to sit here and argue
the very BASICS of Christianity on a Christian site.

I PITY non Christians who come here and read this mess.
I have no doubt they're more confused leaving this place
than they are coming in.

Satan never quits.

My thoughts exactly. Satan never quits.

Having to read, respond and argue over the very BASICS of Christianity on a Christian forum.

It's frustrating.

 

[Rhamiel]

My thoughts exactly. Satan never quits.

Having to read, respond and argue over the very BASICS of Christianity on a Christian forum.

It's frustrating.

that is true
but sometimes we do not even agree on what the "basics" are

 

[Secundulus]

I haven't seen anyone here actually preach a works based theology. I only see people accusing each other of it.

 

[Rhamiel]

I haven't seen anyone here actually preach a works based theology. I only see people accusing each other of it.

very true

 

[JustAsIam77]

I haven't seen anyone here actually preach a works based theology. I only see people accusing each other of it.

You're correct. My OP was addressing this issue in other areas of CF.

 

[JustAsIam77]

that is true
but sometimes we do not even agree on what the "basics" are

Agreed. It's nice to be able to share thoughts with other Christians regarding differences in theology.

The bottom line is Christ is the way, the truth and the life.

 

[MrJim]

that is true
but sometimes we do not even agree on what the "basics" are

We can all agree that it must include pie. Who wants pie?

 

[Nadiine]

I haven't seen anyone here actually preach a works based theology. I only see people accusing each other of it.

This guy is claiming works here:

Originally Posted by 2ndRateMind

Well, guys, thanks for all your interest in this thread.

However, I can't help noticing that for all the Bible quotations, (and let's face it, you can read many different things into any given quote) no one has addressed the points I made a couple of pages back.

Briefly - to save you looking back - these are 1. Virtue and vice seem independent of belief, so the idea that God would reward Christians with Heaven and punish unbelievers with Hell involves believing in an unjust God; and
​

Sadly, we have people resorting to humanistic reasoning rather
than God's word to seek truth by.
Worse, they try to play down or attach lesser importance to God's word directly
as if it's a substandard method of seeking truth.

God's truth will never be found in secular humanism.