Your thoughts please

[JustAsIam77]

Jim47,

Thanks for your post. It's so refreshing to see clear Gospel being posted.

The scriptures you alluded to should be Christianity 101. Basic teaching.
Unfortunately, not anymore.

There is more and more apostasy happening among believers as was foretold in scripture.

 

[MrJim]

Jim47,

Thanks for your post. It's so refreshing to see clear Gospel being posted.

The scriptures you alluded to should be Christianity 101. Basic teaching.
Unfortunately, not anymore.

There is more and more apostasy happening among believers as was foretold in scripture.

Ooh, that's me you're talking about..I once was but have been lured away..I'm fulfilling prophecy. Come on out and say it dude, "MrJim you are a pelagian works apostate"

 

[JustAsIam77]

Ooh, that's me you're talking about..I once was but have been lured away..I'm fulfilling prophecy. Come on out and say it dude, "MrJim you are a pelagian works apostate"

MrJim,

I have no idea what you're talking about. I no more had you in mind than the man in the moon.

God bless

 

[MrJim]

MrJim,

I have no idea what you're talking about. I no more had you in mind than the man in the moon.

God bless

But if I'm not a calvinist then most certainly I'm one of those apostate works-salvationist depending upon my own actions alone to win salvation from God..right?

 

[ReformedChapin]

But if I'm not a calvinist then most certainly I'm one of those apostate works-salvationist depending upon my own actions alone to win salvation from God..right?

yep

 

[MrJim]

yep

Hey at least you are brave enough to say that I am an apostate and most likely not even Christian. Hats off to ya

 

[ReformedChapin]

forget it...

blah

 

[MrJim]

I didnt say that. I just said that you adhere to a works based salvation.


Let not misrepresent.

Just extrapolatin'~~I'm a damned heretic according to the calvinists OOHHH but wait, God decided I was that before there was an earth so what's a person to do

 

[ReformedChapin]

Just extrapolatin'~~I'm a damned heretic according to the calvinists OOHHH but wait, God decided I was that before there was an earth so what's a person to do

 

[Cris413]

My thoughts...

Sometimes I find it takes a whole lot of wisdom to discern where to draw the line.

2nd Timothy teaches us:

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
and Titus teaches us:

Tit 3:9 But avoid foolish disputes, genealogies, contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and useless.
Tit 3:10 Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,
Tit 3:11 knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

There are a couple things I try to take into consideration....firstly...there is...IMHO...a difference between someone who is simply sharing their understanding...and those who set out to teach others.

Personally...I have a whole lot more patience with those who share their thoughts and may lack understanding...than I do those who set out to teach others such things that is plainly in conflict with Scripture.

Teachers of the Law...I find it's usually best not to get into lengthy and divisive discussions with them...it's usually best to present Scripture, share our thoughts and allow the Holy Spirit to move as He sees fit.

Sometimes I think, particularly on these boards, we have an inclination to keep plugging away to convince others and rebuke false doctrine...

Which is all well...until I realize...God doesn't need me to further His Kingdom business...He can use me...but He certainly doesn't need me...

...and if I step back...and God really wants to make a point...He'll raise up someone else...and perhaps He prefers to use someone else....because...the really cool thing I see from time to time is this...ministering to others is a two-way street...and many times...well prolly ALL the time...in ministering to others...we get ministered to in return.

We always have to be prayerful that when we step out to share the Gospel and the understanding we find in Scripture...that we are operating in the Spirit and not in the flesh...

...and just like Titus teaches us...regarding strife and division about the Law...we need that discernment to know when to walk away from a divisive argument and trust God knows all about it and He has it all under control.

Titus prefaces the intruction regarding divisiveness in the Law with:

Tit 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I want you to affirm constantly, that those who have believed in God should be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable to men.

When our discussions are no longer profitable or beneficial ( the words of our lips are also a good work IMHO)...then perhaps the discussion should end.

~tiptoes back out the way I came in...

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

.


MY suggestion:

STOP debating.
Teach, instead.


Debate carries with it the implication of conversion or convincing - it has the "agenda" of making other parties agree. THAT doesn't happen much at CF. Probably more than most of us think (what percentage of active posters at CF have changed denominations at least once in their lifetime - I think it's well over 2/3's).

But MISCONCEPTIONS and MISUNDERSTANDINGS of various positions abound. On ALL sides. CF presents us with an AMAZING and WONDERFUL opportunity to learn from each other in this very diverse, broad community of articulate, informed fellow Christians.


Friend, MOST of the issues discussed in CF have been discussed for 500-1500 years, by people a WHOLE lot smarter than me. Maybe even you, LOL????? Why we think we'll actually do what NO ONE has been able to do in centuries is a point I don't understand at all. But, can we TEACH our position, with the goal that they will understand WHAT we believe and WHY? Yes.


Regard yourself as an educator rather than an evangelist.


That's MY perspective, anyway....


Pax


- Josiah





.

 

[Rhamiel]

Jim47,

Thanks for your post. It's so refreshing to see clear Gospel being posted.

The scriptures you alluded to should be Christianity 101. Basic teaching.
Unfortunately, not anymore.

There is more and more apostasy happening among believers as was foretold in scripture.

But if I'm not a calvinist then most certainly I'm one of those apostate works-salvationist depending upon my own actions alone to win salvation from God..right?

well the feeling I get from most Calvinists I talk to, is that they believe I am not a real Christian, I also think the differances are exaggerated, we agree on most things

 

[MrJim]

well the feeling I get from most Calvinists I talk to, is that they believe I am not a real Christian, I also think the differances are exaggerated, we agree on most things

Do ya really? At this stage of the game we are more divided than ever..we agree on a lot of things but key issues seem to be breaking points, the fulcrum upon which all of Christianity depends, and even if there is agreement on 99% that 1% is all that is needed to break fellowship and declare the other as "not Christian"...

 

[MrJim]

.


MY suggestion:

STOP debating.
Teach, instead.


Debate carries with it the implication of conversion or convincing - it has the "agenda" of making other parties agree. THAT doesn't happen much at CF. Probably more than most of us think (what percentage of active posters at CF have changed denominations at least once in their lifetime - I think it's well over 2/3's).

But MISCONCEPTIONS and MISUNDERSTANDINGS of various positions abound. On ALL sides. CF presents us with an AMAZING and WONDERFUL opportunity to learn from each other in this very diverse, broad community of articulate, informed fellow Christians.


Friend, MOST of the issues discussed in CF have been discussed for 500-1500 years, by people a WHOLE lot smarter than me. Maybe even you, LOL????? Why we think we'll actually do what NO ONE has been able to do in centuries is a point I don't understand at all. But, can we TEACH our position, with the goal that they will understand WHAT we believe and WHY? Yes.


Regard yourself as an educator rather than an evangelist.


That's MY perspective, anyway....


Pax


- Josiah





.

I approve this message

 

[ReformedChapin]

Do ya really? At this stage of the game we are more divided than ever..we agree on a lot of things but key issues seem to be breaking points, the fulcrum upon which all of Christianity depends, and even if there is agreement on 99% that 1% is all that is needed to break fellowship and declare the other as "not Christian"...

This is very dishonest Mr Jim. Not once I have called any conservative Christian here a non-christian nor have I seen a Reformed person here do that.

 

[ReformedChapin]

well the feeling I get from most Calvinists I talk to, is that they believe I am not a real Christian, I also think the differances are exaggerated, we agree on most things

Although some might like in any denomination, many people think calvinist are not saved most of us here I believe would say we don't know who is. It's up to God and his soverign election.

I will admit sometimes I am very confused when people say to me "if the calvinist God is the true God I don't want to follow that God." That seriously makes me question peoples salvation. Not because they are not following my system of theology but because if they knew the real God whoever he was, Catholic, Arminian, Palegian and didn't accept Him for whom He is. That shows me that you are purposefully trying to build your own image of god and that's idolatry.

 

[MrPolo]

What they can't seem to understand is we are set free from the law and therefore so grateful and eager to lead a Godly life because the bondage and chains of the old covenant are gone for us.

I'm not too familiar of anybody on here still preaching works of the OT law as a means for salvation. Perhaps I'm in different forums than you?

p.s. I agree with the others about long circular debates. Not productive!

 

[Rhamiel]

This is very dishonest Mr Jim. Not once I have called any conservative Christian here a non-christian nor have I seen a Reformed person here do that.

well when we hear Calvinists talk about what is "Christian" and we hear them talk about Calvinism and anything that is not Calvinistic is "works based religion" and/or "Plegian"
so you can see why many of us feel like you are calling us non-christians

 

[ReformedChapin]

well when we hear Calvinists talk about what is "Christian" and we hear them talk about Calvinism and anything that is not Calvinistic is "works based religion" and/or "Plegian"
so you can see why many of us feel like you are calling us non-christians

Every denomination has it's disagreements. Not all the reformed agree with everything does that imply that they are not saved? Nope. It just means that the truth is skewed, but even being wrong people can still be saved. All my family is arminian/ semi palegian, not for a second do I doubt their salvation. They are just wrong and don't understand true christianity.

 

[Rhamiel]

Every denomination has it's disagreements. Not all the reformed agree with everything does that imply that they are not saved? Nope. It just means that the truth is skewed, but even being wrong people can still be saved. All my family is arminian/ semi palegian, not for a second do I doubt their salvation. They are just wrong and don't understand true christianity.

ok, I can respect that, it is just some of the strong language that is used, things can get confused