Your thoughts please

[MrJim]

When "apostate" gets tossed into the mix I figured I should respond..

 

[JustAsIam77]

Every denomination has it's disagreements. Not all the reformed agree with everything does that imply that they are not saved? Nope. It just means that the truth is skewed, but even being wrong people can still be saved. All my family is arminian/ semi palegian, not for a second do I doubt their salvation. They are just wrong and don't understand true christianity.

I agree completely.

I've never and would never judge anyone on this forum, (or anywhere else), regarding if they are a true Christian or saved. That's reserved for God alone.

I do try to state my opinions about theology in a sincere and straight forward way. Without being rude or getting personal. That is counter productive and devisive in the long run.

 

[Rhamiel]

When "apostate" gets tossed into the mix I figured I should respond..

when did people start throwing that term around?

 

[JustAsIam77]

when did people start throwing that term around?

I'm not sure but I think because I stated there was apostasy happening in Christs church as was foretold in scripture may have hit a raw nerve.

I do believe that but most certainly was not referring to anyone in particular. Merely my opinion in a general sense.

 

[JustAsIam77]

When "apostate" gets tossed into the mix I figured I should respond..

I believe there is apostasy happening among believers. That was told to us in scripture. Apparently MrJim you took the giant leap as to think I was referring to you?

Thats the only sense I can make of it. Take a chill pill.

 

[MrJim]

I believe there is apostasy happening among believers. That was told to us in scripture. Apparently MrJim you took the giant leap as to think I was referring to you?

Thats the only sense I can make of it. Take a chill pill.

I was at a conference in my calvinist days; Dr John Gerstner was speaking~ all good calvinists know the name~he was asked about those that didn't believe in Reformed teaching, what was their status as Christians. He said that there are basically two camps; there are those that are simply ignorant, their hearts are in the right place but they just don't understand. Then there are those that do know the difference, and that they are preaching a different gospel...

Gal 1:6 –Gal 1:7 NKJV
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

and he said that they are as Paul said

Gal 1:8 –Gal 1:9 NKJV
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

So in retrospect by the words of the good Dr Gerstner I (and anyone else that isn't in the calvinist cam) am in effect "accursed" because of turning away from reformed teaching...the only "true" church in Christianity per calvinist teaching...

So when I hear the calvinists talk about those poor pitiful misguided souls that just won't understand the truth of calv..err the Gospel and they are ergo "works salvationists" it trips a trigger. I'm simply carrying it to its logical end. If you believe we are "works salvationists" then by your definitions you are saying we believe in a false gospel and therefore are not Christian. Don't just let it hang halfway; carry it on to its conclusion.

 

[JustAsIam77]

I was at a conference in my calvinist days; Dr John Gerstner was speaking~ all good calvinists know the name~he was asked about those that didn't believe in Reformed teaching, what was their status as Christians. He said that there are basically two camps; there are those that are simply ignorant, their hearts are in the right place but they just don't understand. Then there are those that do know the difference, and that they are preaching a different gospel...

Gal 1:6 –Gal 1:7 NKJV
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

and he said that they are as Paul said

Gal 1:8 –Gal 1:9 NKJV
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

So in retrospect by the words of the good Dr Gerstner I (and anyone else that isn't in the calvinist cam) am in effect "accursed" because of turning away from reformed teaching...the only "true" church in Christianity per calvinist teaching...

So when I hear the calvinists talk about those poor pitiful misguided souls that just won't understand the truth of calv..err the Gospel and they are ergo "works salvationists" it trips a trigger. I'm simply carrying it to its logical end. If you believe we are "works salvationists" then by your definitions you are saying we believe in a false gospel and therefore are not Christian. Don't just let it hang halfway; carry it on to its conclusion.

I'm sincerely sorry my brother in Christ. I don't know where you're going with this post. I'm not that smart.

Peace

 

[Rhamiel]

He said that there are basically two camps; there are those that are simply ignorant, their hearts are in the right place but they just don't understand.

um... to be fair this is close to Catholic teachings
the second part is a little more strongly worded then what a Catholic would say
but it is not that far off

 

[JustAsIam77]

I was at a conference in my calvinist days; Dr John Gerstner was speaking~ all good calvinists know the name~he was asked about those that didn't believe in Reformed teaching, what was their status as Christians. He said that there are basically two camps; there are those that are simply ignorant, their hearts are in the right place but they just don't understand. Then there are those that do know the difference, and that they are preaching a different gospel...

Gal 1:6 –Gal 1:7 NKJV
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

and he said that they are as Paul said

Gal 1:8 –Gal 1:9 NKJV
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

So in retrospect by the words of the good Dr Gerstner I (and anyone else that isn't in the calvinist cam) am in effect "accursed" because of turning away from reformed teaching...the only "true" church in Christianity per calvinist teaching...

So when I hear the calvinists talk about those poor pitiful misguided souls that just won't understand the truth of calv..err the Gospel and they are ergo "works salvationists" it trips a trigger. I'm simply carrying it to its logical end. If you believe we are "works salvationists" then by your definitions you are saying we believe in a false gospel and therefore are not Christian. Don't just let it hang halfway; carry it on to its conclusion.

MrJim,

I think I understand what you're point is. (After pondering over Kielbasa and saurkraut).

Because I align myself with the reformers view i.e. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc. regarding interpretation of the Gospel, never the less, I don't believe brothers and sisters in Christ that don't see it that way are not Christian! God forbid.

We can agree to disagree and still see the King of Kings together. Amen

 

[MrJim]

MrJim,

I think I understand what you're point is. (After pondering over Kielbasa and saurkraut).

Because I align myself with the reformers view i.e. Luther, Calvin, Zwingli, etc. regarding interpretation of the Gospel, never the less, I don't believe brothers and sisters in Christ that don't see it that way are not Christian! God forbid.

We can agree to disagree and still see the King of Kings together. Amen

so then what is the point of debating these finer details? CAJosiah makes some good points in his post regarding reading farther in that may truly be understood.

..and was the kielbasa & kraut really good?

 

[JustAsIam77]

so then what is the point of debating these finer details? CAJosiah makes some good points in his post regarding reading farther in that may truly be understood.

..and was the kielbasa & kraut really good?

Yeah, kraut & kielbasa was excellent.

I guess I could confine my reformed leanings to the semper reformanda area. Or PuritanBoard. I don't think we should censure opposing points of view between Arminianism and Calvinism though.

I'm trying to be non devisive here but you're not helping. You seem to be the only one I offend. Take a stand for your theological point of view and I'll do the same. No big deal.

It's not personal brother. We just have different theological views but are still conservative, hence we like this area.

 

[MrJim]

Yeah, kraut & kielbasa was excellent.

I guess I could confine my reformed leanings to the semper reformanda area. Or PuritanBoard. I don't think we should censure opposing points of view between Arminianism and Calvinism though.

I'm trying to be non devisive here but you're not helping. You seem to be the only one I offend. Take a stand for your theological point of view and I'll do the same. No big deal.

It's not personal brother. We just have different theological views but are still conservative, hence we like this area.

Having been a strident calvinist convert I tend to read between the lines when I see posts by those sporting the reformed badge

 

[ReformedChapin]

I was at a conference in my calvinist days; Dr John Gerstner was speaking~ all good calvinists know the name~he was asked about those that didn't believe in Reformed teaching, what was their status as Christians. He said that there are basically two camps; there are those that are simply ignorant, their hearts are in the right place but they just don't understand. Then there are those that do know the difference, and that they are preaching a different gospel...

Gal 1:6 –Gal 1:7 NKJV
I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.

and he said that they are as Paul said

Gal 1:8 –Gal 1:9 NKJV
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

So in retrospect by the words of the good Dr Gerstner I (and anyone else that isn't in the calvinist cam) am in effect "accursed" because of turning away from reformed teaching...the only "true" church in Christianity per calvinist teaching...

So when I hear the calvinists talk about those poor pitiful misguided souls that just won't understand the truth of calv..err the Gospel and they are ergo "works salvationists" it trips a trigger. I'm simply carrying it to its logical end. If you believe we are "works salvationists" then by your definitions you are saying we believe in a false gospel and therefore are not Christian. Don't just let it hang halfway; carry it on to its conclusion.

Never heard of him. But he's right at one point, non-calvinist are following an incorrect Gospel more like a part of the Gospel. That however doesn't change their state in eternity.

 

[MrJim]

Never heard of him. But he's right at one point, non-calvinist are following an incorrect Gospel more like a part of the Gospel. That however doesn't change their state in eternity.

It is more the transformed life than the theological details and all this wasted bandwidth is simply chats about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...ever think we're missing the point?

 

[CruciFixed]

Although some might like in any denomination, many people think calvinist are not saved most of us here I believe would say we don't know who is. It's up to God and his soverign election.

I will admit sometimes I am very confused when people say to me "if the calvinist God is the true God I don't want to follow that God." That seriously makes me question peoples salvation. Not because they are not following my system of theology but because if they knew the real God whoever he was, Catholic, Arminian, Palegian and didn't accept Him for whom He is. That shows me that you are purposefully trying to build your own image of god and that's idolatry.

I think its selfish for people to assume God should fit their description before they accept him. Hes perfect and Holy. He doesn't need to fit the bill. He is God. I would accept Him under any of those different "standards" because he accepts us with open arms dirty as sinners and makes us clean and debt free.

Never heard of him. But he's right at one point, non-calvinist are following an incorrect Gospel more like a part of the Gospel. That however doesn't change their state in eternity.

So you are saying even non-calvinists can go to Heaven?

 

[JustAsIam77]

I think its selfish for people to assume God should fit their description before they accept him. Hes perfect and Holy. He doesn't need to fit the bill. He is God. I would accept Him under any of those different "standards" because he accepts us with open arms dirty as sinners and makes us clean and debt free.




So you are saying even non-calvinists can go to Heaven?

Of course. I'm not speaking for ReformedChapin but because of his previous statement I believe we're in agreement about this as Calvinists. As a Christian, you believe the blood of the Lamb is your pathway to heaven... rejoice.

 

[ReformedChapin]

I think its selfish for people to assume God should fit their description before they accept him. Hes perfect and Holy. He doesn't need to fit the bill. He is God. I would accept Him under any of those different "standards" because he accepts us with open arms dirty as sinners and makes us clean and debt free.

Good. I'm glad.

So you are saying even non-calvinists can go to Heaven?

Yes. I don't understand where you guys heard that non-calvinist go to hell. Who's saying these things?

 

[ReformedChapin]

It is more the transformed life than the theological details and all this wasted bandwidth is simply chats about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...ever think we're missing the point?

Sorry Jim but theology matters. It's what makes us who we are. Our beliefs transform us.

 

[MrJim]

Sorry Jim but theology matters. It's what makes us who we are. Our beliefs transform us.

yeah, but maybe it is as simple as this..

Of course. I'm not speaking for ReformedChapin but because of his previous statement I believe we're in agreement about this as Calvinists. As a Christian, you believe the blood of the Lamb is your pathway to heaven... rejoice.

 

[CruciFixed]

Good. I'm glad.




Yes. I don't understand where you guys heard that non-calvinist go to hell. Who's saying these things?

I didnt say you or any Calvinists said that. I don't even know where I stand on the issue. I just wanted to know.