your thoughts on thorn in the flesh

[janny108]

Hi all, was reading in my devotional about Paul's thorn in the flesh and that God can use people in spite of it. We all have weaknesses but what would constitute a "thorn in the flesh"?

 

[hedrick]

This is the subject of endless debate among scholars. I think the simplest answer is that it was some kind of chronic disease or physical defect. I'm pretty sure we'll never know the specifics (in this life).

 

[7angels]

2 cor 12:7
And to keep me from being puffed up and too much elated by the exceeding greatness (preeminence) of these revelations, there was given me a thorn ([a]a splinter) in the flesh, a messenger of Satan, to rack and buffet and harass me, to keep me from being excessively exalted.

verses 5-10 refer to paul's weaknesses. so this is the context of the verse. v 7 paul is talking about being worried that he may get prideful because of the great revelations of the word that God has gifted him with. paul refers to this as a thorn because he has to constantly be on the lookout so pride does not manifest itself. too many time we can get prideful when what we are doing becomes about us and not about God. as you see from the context, paul wants to rejoice in his weaknesses and not in his strengths and one of the gifts God gave paul was revelation on how the old testament is all about Jesus. God's reply in v 9 shows us that if we remain in Christ that we will remain humble before the Lord.

some say that this thorn is from satan to keep paul from getting too exaulted. this thorn some say could of been a physical injury or weakness. but what does not make sense with this view is that satan wants us to get puffed up and greatly elated by the exceeding greatness (preeminence) of this knowledge of the word because it will eventually lead to pride if we are not careful. so to say satan tried to keep him from getting prideful is actually saying that satan is working against his our self which Jesus said would only lead to their demise.

God bless

 

[janny108]

I'm thinking the same, we'll never really know what it is in this life. Cause it seems to me what may be a thorn may not be a thorn to someone else.

 

[gideon123]

just my $0.02 here ...

first thing ... my suggestion is don't bother tying to analyze the specific thing that caused Paul a problem. We're never going to find out. So speculation really gets us nowhere.

Next ... it's helpful to realize that Paul's comments are an awesome gift. A gift stemming from human weakness. Because it doesn't matter exactly what was the matter with him. It only matters that he had a problem that really bugged him - and it just wouldn't go away.
Yet through all the frustration of trying to deal with it - he learned that it didn't matter anyway. Faith would triumph. And that's the lesson he taught us from this. And it's a great lesson.

gideon123

 

[Ark100]

I don't think the thorn has anything to do with physical ailment, like sickness or disease
Messenger of satan torments Paul, it could be an emotional torment, could be physical torment where he sees them a lot, could be sleepless nights for him, could be through the persecution he faced from every angle.
Prophets of God, and people who GOD have ordained to perform miracles and do great works have to go through some of the things Paul went through. Its not always an easy road, even though people admire them for what God is doing in their lives, still they don't have it easy spiritually all the time.
There are attacks often from the enemy.
BUT then The Lord said His grace is sufficient for paul which mattered the most. The thorn in His flesh was to humble him and always remind him that it is not by his might or power but by the Spirit of God. For God detest haughty people who glorify themselves rather than God.

 

[REPHAIAHPEDAHEL]

Numbers 33:55 NKJV
But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of the land from before you, then it shall be that those whom you let remain shall be IRRITANTS IN YOUR EYES AND THORNS IN YOUR SIDES, and they shall harass you in the land where you dwell.

Joshua 23:13 NKJV
know for certain that the LORD your God will no longer drive out these nations from before you. But they shall be snares and traps to you, AND SCOURGES ON YOUR SIDES AND THORNS IN YOUR EYES, until you perish from this good land which the LORD your God has given you.

Judges 2:3 NKJV
Therefore I also said, 'I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be THORNS IN YOUR SIDE, and their gods shall be a snare to you.'"

Bible must always interpret bible and if you look at similar usages of the phrase, you will see that it always refers to people!

Paul's thorn in the flesh was a satanic messenger who stirred up people wherever Paul went to persecute Him! He was the most persecuted of all the apostles. It is not disease or sickness because that is part of the finished work of Christ on the cross. Freedom from Persecution isn't!

 

[Spiritlight]

As a personal observation i noticed from Pauls letters is that at times he uses a scribe for writing them and signs in his own writing. Considering his advanced age during his ministry and the expectation that eyesight fails with age I have wondered if that was the thing annoying him because it would be a big hindrance.

 

[Xleniz]

I read on some page it was a demon.

"And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure. For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me. And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong." (2 Cor. 12:7-10)

 

[Quasicentennial]

It's a terrible picture reminder of Jesus on the cross and the "crown of thorns" that was worn around his head where the thorns could have blurred his vision as tears formed and streamed together with the blood around the thorns down his face and body. Such agonizing pain and suffering had to be avoided by a new mind and body that is totally sin-proof so that only joy will be experienced if you accidentally sat on a cactus - it's a funny example just to imagine what's it like to have our nervous system programmed to feel joy instead of pain, once Jesus has returned to transform us after his successful victory against Satan.:
Painful memories may still be us when we socialize forever with Jesus inside the future-coming kingdom of God. Painful - is a feeling that most definitely be just a tiny prick as Christ's joy will become an abundant force of positive energy that rushes through every living cell of our future-coming minds and bodies so perfect in health and youthfulness .;'*';.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Hi all, was reading in my devotional about Paul's thorn in the flesh and that God can use people in spite of it. We all have weaknesses but what would constitute a "thorn in the flesh"?

'The Flesh' doesnt only refer to the physical body, but also the human nature. So, it could have been many things including but not limited to : A physical ailment he acquired , something he was born with, an injury that occured in his life that caused ongoing pain and discomfort into his Ministry for the Lord , any one of a plethera of emotional issues (insomnia, depression, anxiety, etc...) or even Lust . We are not told specifically, but, it was something he prayed and begged God to eliminate from his life...but God said to rely on himself and recieve Gods grace unto Pauls life to endure it.

It is no different today for devouted Christians. We may not get our miraculous healing, but we do have Gods love, support, and strength thru all trials till we get home to Him.

 

[Maremma]

Well Paul seems to simply tell us things that would constitute a "thorn in the flesh" Any number of things really. Physical illnesses, people insulting you,hardships, persecutions.
Although he specifically says "glory in my infirmities" so I would certainly lean towards some form of physical illness.

Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

As for a demon not being "counter productive" we must always remember that even though they rebelled against God He still has control and they must obey Him when He commands them. "like it or not" They still must do exactly what He says and ONLY to the degree He says. (Job)

We cannot forget that God HAS commanded demons and sent them to inflict us with infirmities and problems in the scriptures and warns us that He will STILL do it if we harbor unforgiveness in our hearts.

Look at Saul. God specifically said He SENT that demon to torment Saul. 1 Samuel 16:14 and 15
Now the Spirit of the Lord had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord tormented him. Saul’s attendants said to him, “See, an evil spirit from God is tormenting you.

Punishment for sexual immorality
1 Corinthians 5:5
hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

Unforgiveness
Mathew 18:32-35
“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

 

[Fireinfolding]

There was a woman with a spirit of infirmity (that affected either her flesh or bone) see Job about touching the "skin" (or his flesh and bone). Paul calls the thorn a "messenger of" Satan. I just posted on this in devotionals (for another thread) and decided not to post it where I was going to previously. But you can really see the comparisons in it because they seem laced throughout scripture by the way Paul speaks of them. For example, isnt it odd Paul calls something "the temptation" that was in my flesh (ye did not despise)? Then you follow through infirmity (of the flesh) we see in a woman (bound by Satan) a "spirit of" infirmity. Her being unable to lift herself up speaks (to me) of touching bone. Now look back at Job, Satan going before the LORD saying "touch his flesh" ( and we see an "infirmity of" the flesh) and in the case of bone ( we see a woman with "a spirit of" infirmity") and clearly Jesus shows Satan has done this. In Job, Satan says he will "what" in so touching him in this manner? Satan says he will "curse thee to thy face" right? So in touching the flesh (and in this manner) "is where" an actual "temptation" (to do so) is. So Paul saying the "temptation" that was in my flesh (and them not despising) was something they could see (even as Jobs wife and freinds could).

So we have "a spirit of" infirmity (of Satan) in the woman, "a thorn" in the flesh (called "a messenger of" Satan). And he says that through an "infirmity of" of his flesh he preached to them at the first. Then calls it my "temptation" that was in my flesh (also). Then the actual touch of flesh (and bone) in Job came with a "he will curse you to your face" (along with the temptation) which was in each case shown to be of Satan. Either in Jobs case, the womans case, and Pauls case.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Since this applies more to your post I'll take the post I posted in devotionals and post it here, maybe it will prove more helpful here. I posted this as 4am before it was finished, but I think you can see how they connect a little throughout scripture by how they are worded (and surrounding circumstances in each one).

Trying to get this picture to show these things better, can you see the comparisons in these instances?

Gal 4:13 Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first.

Luke 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman whichhad a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself.

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

And likewise...There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan

See between the two?

Luke 13:11 And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years

Though Paul asked for "this thing" to taken from him but he was told His grace was sufficient for him

2Cr 12:10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

Then here...

Job 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that a man hath will he give for his life.

Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.

^That^ would show "my temptation" in my flesh

Job 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life.

There was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan

Job 2:7 So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.

2Cr 12:7And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Jesus shows that Satan desired to have Simon too

Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

Luke 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Christ is the power of God, who prayed for Simons faith

1Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:

1Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

You can at least see in each (whether Job) the woman, Paul or Simon Satan has involvement with the needing of permissions to touch (flesh or bone) and how a spirit of infirmity (thorn in the flesh) being sifted (or tried by fire (and a manifold of temptations) and Jobs patient enduring (through the same) are found very much in accord. Theres more that can be should also, this is rather short. But maybe helpful. If not just scroll right past it.

 

[Girder of Loins]

Mine is homosexuality. It is a personal struggle that I was born with, and while not an inherent sin, it is something that can easily lead me into sin. It is something I will deal with until I die. Obviously, it would be nice if this thorn would be removed, but if not, all glory to God.

 

[TheyCallMeDave]

Mine is homosexuality. It is a personal struggle that I was born with, and while not an inherent sin, it is something that can easily lead me into sin. It is something I will deal with until I die. Obviously, it would be nice if this thorn would be removed, but if not, all glory to God.

If you were truly born with it, then there would be negative implications to God himself who created you . It is more plausible that you acquired such same sex attraction(s) early on for whatever reason , with one of the more common reasons being an absentee Dad or a Dad who didnt model Masculinity effectively . Regardless, your Heavenly Father wants you to be healed from this because it has become a deeply immersed routine thought ,triggering emotions .

Would you care to share if you have undergone Christian Counselling on a professional level , as one example of trying to overcome this ? Or have you found a Homosexual Anonymous (H.A.) formal Group which holds meetings ... something simular to Celebrate Recovery Ministry which is nationwide.? Could you share a little about what you have tried ? Thanks.