What was Paul's thorn?

[ByTheSpirit]

Some say it was a sickness. Others will say it was an injury. There's a lot of views on what Paul's thorn in the flesh was, usually it's made out to be something that helps fit whatever narrative is being discussed at the time. But what does the text say and how can we use that to strengthen our own walk with Jesus?

So to keep me from becoming conceited, I was given a thorn in my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 2 Corinthians 12:7 (BSB)

To keep Paul from becoming conceited, Paul was given a messenger of Satan...

My understanding is it wasn't some sickness, but rather a demon, or rather a demonic messenger, who was tormenting Paul about his past. Not that Paul had a demon, don't misunderstand me, but it was a demonic messenger that was using Paul's past to try and bring him down. And oddly enough, what Satan meant for harm, Jesus used for good. The message weakened Paul to the point where he learned to say through the Holy Spirit, "When I am weak, then I am strong."

We know from other passages of scripture that Paul's past is something that he frequently used to illustrate just how gracious and forgiving God is.

If anyone else thinks he has grounds for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin; a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, persecuting the church; as to righteousness in the law, faultless. Philippians 3:4-6 (BSB)

Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, Philippians 3:13 (BSB)

For you have heard of my former way of life in Judaism, how severely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. I was advancing in Judaism beyond many of my contemporaries and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. Galatians 1:13-14 (BSB)

I could go on, but there's a bunch and we get the point.

I believe the thorn in Paul's flesh was a demonic messenger that Jesus allowed to persist with Paul to keep him humble. To remind Paul of where he came from so that Paul wouldn't become conceited with pride.

So how can we use that information in our own lives? I know me personally I struggle quite a bit with things I've done in the past, and how I believe those acts are still affecting me and those I love in the present. It hurts quite a bit truthfully, and while I can't change what I've done, I can learn to say, "When I am weak, then I am strong."

Those thoughts, those emotions, should lead me to run headlong towards the arms of Jesus. Finding grace and comfort in the presence of my Savior, who has forgiven me.

So allow me to encourage you, wherever you may be. That when thoughts or feelings of the past come around, a messenger of Satan. Use what is meant for harm for good. Those thoughts and feelings did not come from God, do not allow yourself to be condemned from something God has forgiven you for!

Let your past and the things that God has forgiven you from lead you into the arms of the Lord and find "grace to help in your time of need"! (Hebrews 4:14-16)

 

[ByTheSpirit]

This is a pretty good illustration of what I'm saying. Messengers of Satan sent to bring us down, but run to Jesus and reject the devil!

 

[tonychanyt]

Paul’s thorn in the flesh​

2 Corinthians 12:

7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations,

That's the purpose of Paul's thorn: to keep him humble. God humbles everyone, including his prophets and servants.

a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me,

It was not literally a thorn. Satan used it to constantly harass Paul. God used Satan to keep Paul humble. It could be some kind of psychological attack. Perhaps that's why Paul wasn't being precise in describing it.

to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”

The thorn was a weakness in Paul.

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

This was how Paul dealt with it practically in contentment.

10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

He looked to the strength of God, not to the thorn. That's the bottom line.

 

[Aaron112]

The thorn was a weakness in Paul.

I think Paul says the thorn is a messenger of satan/ a demon? ...
Anyway, the thorn is not a weakness.

 

[Aaron112]

To keep Paul from becoming conceited, Paul was given a messenger of Satan...

Simple and true. Thanks be to the Creator for His Way of Doing things best.

 

[tonychanyt]

I think Paul says the thorn is a messenger of satan/ a demon? ...
Anyway, the thorn is not a weakness.

Did you even read my post?

The thorn was a weakness in Paul.

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

This was how Paul dealt with it practically in contentment.

10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

He looked to the strength of God, not to the thorn.

Please read my post before replying to it. Thank you.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Paul’s thorn in the flesh​

2 Corinthians 12:

That's the purpose of Paul's thorn: to keep him humble. God humbles everyone, including his prophets and servants.

It was not literally a thorn. Satan used it to constantly harass Paul. God used Satan to keep Paul humble. It could be some kind of psychological attack. Perhaps that's why Paul wasn't being precise in describing it.

The thorn was a weakness in Paul.

This was how Paul dealt with it practically in contentment.

He looked to the strength of God, not to the thorn. That's the bottom line.

I think we'd agree that the thorn was not a physical illness or something of the sort correct? From what you put we may even agree that the messenger of Satan was more of a mental deal. As stated, I think it's more in the form of trying to bring Paul down because of his past. But I don't think the form necessarily matters.

What Satan meant for evil, Jesus used for good because of how Paul responded. And it's Paul's response that we should learn from. When we are being tempted or attacked, we need to go to Jesus. In our weakness, He is made strong.

 

[Wings like Eagles]

This is a pretty good illustration of what I'm saying. Messengers of Satan sent to bring us down, but run to Jesus and reject the devil!

Always like, Discovering the Jewish Jesus with Rabbi Schneider

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Always like, Discovering the Jewish Jesus with Rabbi Schneider

I just found his content the other day and it's been super helpful and such a blessing

 

[Aaron112]

Did you even read my post?

Not necessary - yet I did.
You keep responding rather like an automaton without free will. Why is that ? Self-protective ?
That to me seems to include you not personally answering questions like a human being with feelings , but deflecting ... but that's okay - it is a right you have on this forum.
When I ask you , or anyone a question, it is as God Directs, for His Purpose.
Shalom to you and your family today.

 

[Aaron112]

To keep Paul from becoming conceited, Paul was given a messenger of Satan...

My understanding is it wasn't some sickness, but rather a demon, or rather a demonic messenger, who was tormenting Paul about his past.

Yet it could be or could have been a messenger of satan, allowed by God,
to cause
a physcial ailment ?

 

[honey badger]

a fly in his ointment ...

 

[ByTheSpirit]

Yet it could be or could have been a messenger of satan, allowed by God,
to cause
a physcial ailment ?

There's no way for anyone to know for certain, but I feel the context, as well as other passages like 1 Corinthians 15:9, Galatians 1:13, Philippians 3:4-14, 1 Timothy 1:15, indicates this to be a psychological deal that Paul was battling. A constant reminder of his past and the sufficiency of Christ to see him through.

Now yes it could be a physical ailment, I just don't see how a physical ailment could keep someone from pride and conceit as the text indicates.

 

[Aaron112]

Now yes it could be a physical ailment, I just don't see how a physical ailment could keep someone from pride and conceit as the text indicates.

I've had at times physical ailments that very very directly kept me from pride and conceit ...
I willing (and had to ) leaned on Jesus for my strength and endurance
and had no place within to be puffed up with conceit or to be proud in myself.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I've had at times physical ailments that very very directly kept me from pride and conceit ...
I willing (and had to ) leaned on Jesus for my strength and endurance
and had no place within to be puffed up with conceit or to be proud in myself.

Well I'm thankful that He saw you through, He is ever faithful

 

[Aaron112]

There's no way for anyone to know for certain

I totally forgot about this experience >>>
"when Paul was blinded on the Damascus road and subsequently healed at the hands of Ananias"

 

[Aaron112]

Well I'm thankful that He saw you through, He is ever faithful

Yes, constantly, daily, without fail.

 

[ByTheSpirit]

I totally forgot about this experience >>>
"when Paul was blinded on the Damascus road and subsequently healed at the hands of Ananias"

I don't think the thorn in the flesh was Paul's conversion experience though.

I mean, we know from his letter to the Galatians that Paul was sick and did get sick. So as I said, it's possible the thorn in the flesh was a physical ailment. I'm willing to say that I don't know for certain.

The point I was really trying to make in my OP was more about what our response should be to such situations. Paul went to Jesus and even when Jesus told him no and not remove the thorn, Paul glorified Jesus.

 

[Diamond7]

Some say it was a sickness. Others will say it was an injury. There's a lot of views on what Paul's thorn in the flesh was, usually it's made out to be something that helps fit whatever narrative is being discussed at the time. But what does the text say and how can we use that to strengthen our own walk with Jesus?

There are three Bible references that Paul had a problem with his eyes.

Acts 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

Galatians 4:15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.

Galatians 6 See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!

 

[ByTheSpirit]

There are three Bible references that Paul had a problem with his eyes.

Acts 9:8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

Galatians 4:15 Where, then, is your blessing of me now? I can testify that, if you could have done so, you would have torn out your eyes and given them to me.

Galatians 6 See what large letters I use as I write to you with my own hand!

The first one doesn't match this scenario. That was Paul's conversion event, and the thorn in the flesh came about from revelations of Heaven and paradise. There's no possible way anyone can seriously consider that Jesus gave Paul exceedingly great revelations of paradise as he was just becoming a believer.

The second one... maybe

The third one, again no. Paul saying, "See what large letters I use" isn't him saying I'm so blind I need to write in large letters. IT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF SOMEONE TYPING IN ALL CAPS ONLINE. They are trying to emphasize something, it's basically the type version of yelling. Paul was yelling at the Galatians in his letter to emphasize how serious the situation was.

Now again, as I've stated previously, it is possible that the thorn was a physical ailment. I'm not precluding that. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible.