your thoughts on aliens/ extra terrestials?

[dad]

If those "aliens" were acting on God's inspiration, with His approval, or even by His command, there'd be no conflict with the Gospel, now would there?

I think there would be a logical error in that the heavens (where these aliens supposedly live) will be no more. They will pass away. Why would God create the earth, and later the stars with a bunch of ugly green men, only to wipe them ALL out all of a sudden?? Makes no sense. That also takes away from then central importance of man and this world and His destiny for us.

 

[dad]

Yes, but where are they?

Link, anyone?

Rev 9: 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. 3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. 5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. 6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. 7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. 8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. 9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. 10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I think there would be a logical error in that the heavens (where these aliens supposedly live) will be no more. They will pass away. Why would God create the earth, and later the stars with a bunch of ugly green men, only to wipe them ALL out all of a sudden?? Makes no sense.

He's already going to do it for all of creation -- what's a few extra green men?

And who says they're ugly? looked in the mirror lately? You're no George Clooney yourself, pal.

That also takes away from then central importance of man and this world and His destiny for us.

Well, that only hurts people who think that they're (quite literally) the most important thing in the universe. Those with no humility have bigger issues than little green men.

 

[dad]

I wouldn't be that extreme as science and scientists have brought us many good discoveries and things that make our life better.

We trust in them for things like medical advancements so science plays an important part in our lives.

Science itself is a method and that cant be faulted,

Science in a sinful world must be viewed as something evil men will use.

its sometimes the people behind the science that should not always be trusted.

All men are sinners.

I agree but this is the hypothesis they are coming up with to address what they are finding. To say that science bases itself in the mathematical and logical and provable things that can be tested its a far cry from that. It goes to show that we can use science to explain things to a point but then it cannot have the answers anymore.

I know that, but they never stop...they go to the point of absurdity and insane speculation on origin issues.

If they are proposing things like multi universes and string theory then to me they are willing to step outside the verifiable and testable and allow things that dont fit in with how they say science should conduct itself.

They propose such things BASED on certain fundamental beliefs and principles. They cannot be supported and are pure religion. Try to show us the basis for a multi verse..

I believe sooner or later they will be confronted with the truth that there is something at work in the universe and life that has an influence and intelligence and goes beyond the natural and self creating. That being a God who is the architect of the universe and life.

There is plenty at work. Demon angels delayed the angel coming from God to Daniel. There are demons under the earth. Also many on earth. In NO way should anyone believe that they are a result of some sort of advanced evolution.

How many aliens did Jesus tell us about?

 

[stevevw]

Science in a sinful world must be viewed as something evil men will use.
All men are sinners.

Yes but you wouldn't be saying that if a surgeon saved your life or one of your families life in an operation such as heart surgery. Thank God the person went to uni and used his brain and talents to do that.

I know that, but they never stop...they go to the point of absurdity and insane speculation on origin issues.

I personally think science allows us to see the greatness of God. When the greatest minds work on something like genetics and still cant work it out it just shows the great complexity of our makeups. This then shows how Great God is in making us with all our complexity and magnificence. Science can only go so far and we can marvel at that. But how much greater is God that he goes way beyond what man can do.

They propose such things BASED on certain fundamental beliefs and principles. They cannot be supported and are pure religion. Try to show us the basis for a multi verse..

Thats right, they believe in these hypothesis just like they say we believe in God. So even scientists will get to a point one day where they will have to admit that what they are seeing goes beyond the naturalistic theories they place on how everything is made and operates. Thats because there is a designer behind it. But even if they do see that there is something great behind it all they will never admit it is a personal God. They would rather believe in the many far out hypothesis than admit there is a God.

 

[dad]

Yes but you wouldn't be saying that if a surgeon saved your life or one of your families life in an operation such as heart surgery. Thank God the person went to uni and used his brain and talents to do that.

Right. They can be useful, even in a wicked system.

I personally think science allows us to see the greatness of God. When the greatest minds work on something like genetics and still cant work it out it just shows the great complexity of our makeups. This then shows how Great God is in making us with all our complexity and magnificence. Science can only go so far and we can marvel at that. But how much greater is God that he goes way beyond what man can do.

Hard to argue with that.

Thats right, they believe in these hypothesis just like they say we believe in God. So even scientists will get to a point one day where they will have to admit that what they are seeing goes beyond the naturalistic theories they place on how everything is made and operates. Thats because there is a designer behind it. But even if they do see that there is something great behind it all they will never admit it is a personal God. They would rather believe in the many far out hypothesis than admit there is a God.

That would be difficult since they do not allow God or spirits or the spiritual into their knowledge. Basically man's wisdom is foolishness compared to God's. The future of the world is known and laid out in detail, and science will not save us. Whatever science they have will be used for sin and to fight God mostly.

 

[TLK Valentine]

Right. They can be useful, even in a wicked system.

Perhaps, but you, too are a sinful man in a sinful world -- if they save your life, are they really doing good?

 

[dad]

Perhaps, but you, too are a sinful man in a sinful world -- if they save your life, are they really doing good?

Many try to do good. But we must look at the whole package. Is the good of allowing me to live another year and a half on meds worth the billion plus murders of babies by the medical profession over the last decades?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Many try to do good. But we must look at the whole package. Is the good of allowing me to live another year and a half on meds worth the billion plus murders of babies by the medical profession over the last decades?

As you said, the system is wicked, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit -- no matter how many exceptions you would like to make for yourself.

 

[dad]

As you said, the system is wicked, and a bad tree cannot produce good fruit -- no matter how many exceptions you would like to make for yourself.

That does not mean that a saved person is sinless. The system we referred to was the system of this world and the medical system that is part of it. There is much that is against the ways of God in both. Despite that, we can use it the best we know how. This is His world, His nature, His universe.

 

[TLK Valentine]

That does not mean that a saved person is sinless. The system we referred to was the system of this world and the medical system that is part of it. There is much that is against the ways of God in both. Despite that, we can use it the best we know how. This is His world, His nature, His universe.

Which is corrupted, and you use that corruption for your own personal benefit.

Bad tree, bad fruit -- no matter how many exceptions you make for yourself.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

The only motive there could ever be for interstellar travel would be escape.

Speak for yourself. The exploration alone is enough for me.

 

[dad]

Which is corrupted, and you use that corruption for your own personal benefit.

We use what is available.

Bad tree, bad fruit -- no matter how many exceptions you make for yourself.

What are you saying, that we should not use science or medicine unless they were pure as the driven snow?

 

[TLK Valentine]

We use what is available.

Why not come up with something better? Then you wouldn't be so dependent on those sinful, sinful scientists...

What are you saying, that we should not use science or medicine unless they were pure as the driven snow?

You're the one who said the system was corrupt. Jesus is the one who said a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.

I'm just pointing out that you don't seem to put a lot of stock in Jesus' words when there's something in it for you....

 

[dad]

Why not come up with something better? Then you wouldn't be so dependent on those sinful, sinful scientists...

If the milkman was sinful should we not buy milk? If the postman is sinful should we not read mail?

You're the one who said the system was corrupt. Jesus is the one who said a bad tree cannot produce good fruit.

The tree was a person, no? That may have been referring to something like how a person before they get saved cannot really have good fruit because they do not have God. That was not supposed to mean that anything that is less than perfect should not be used. Jesus used lots of imperfect people...no other kind actually!

 

[TLK Valentine]

If the milkman was sinful should we not buy milk? If the postman is sinful should we not read mail?

You're not saying the people are corrupt, dad -- your claim is that the entire system is corrupt.

Are you conceding that you could do no better?

The tree was a person, no? That may have been referring to something like how a person before they get saved cannot really have good fruit because they do not have God. That was not supposed to mean that anything that is less than perfect should not be used. Jesus used lots of imperfect people...no other kind actually!

Did Jesus ever use a doctor? Did he ever encourage anyone to go to one instead of him?

You're supposed to repent your sins, dad -- not attempt to justify them.

 

[dad]

You're not saying the people are corrupt, dad -- your claim is that the entire system is corrupt.

Are you conceding that you could do no better?

What goes into the pie is what makes the pie what it is. The planet cannot be saved, whales cannot be saved, man cannot save himself or the world. There is only one way.

Did Jesus ever use a doctor?

No.

Did he ever encourage anyone to go to one instead of him?

No.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

The Gallup poll of 2014 reported that 50% of of adults in the US accepted evolution and 42% believed in creationism.

The Pew poll of 12-2013 reported 61% accepted evolution and 33% creationism 12-13

The differences are attributable to different polling methods and are not seen as unusual.

With either one though, less than half (33% and 42%) believed in creationism.

World wide, the numbers look like this:

According to a 2011 IPSOS poll
Belief in Supreme Being(s) and Afterlife Accepted By Half (51%) of Citizens in 23 Country Survey, But Only 28% Are ‘Creationists’

41% identify as evolutionist
28% global citizens refer to themselves as creationists
31% simply don't know.


Here are some of the mainline denominations that accept evolution.
Catholic Church
Episcopal Church
Church of England
United Methodist Church
Presbyterian Church
National Council of Churches USA
The Church of the Nazarene

So your claim that the majority of Christians appears to be very unlikely.

Dizredux

Ipsos Global @dvisory: Supreme Being(s), the Afterlife and Evolution | Ipsos
Evolution, Creationism, Intelligent Design | Gallup Historical Trends
Public’s Views on Human Evolution | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project

Guess it just depends on how many people and who are actually polled, but let's see what the Gallop Pole showed...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...tionism-just-15-percent-accept-evolution.html

"Nearly half of Americans believe God created mankind in a single day about 10,000 years ago, a literal interpretation of the Bible, according to a new survey that shows the view toward evolution in the United States hasn't changed in 30 years.
About 46 percent of people say creationism explains the origin of humans. Just 15 percent say humans evolved without the assistance of God, a Gallup poll finds"


In U.S., 46% Hold Creationist View of Human Origins

"The 46% of Americans who today believe that God created humans in their present form within the last 10,000 years is little changed from the 44% who believed this 30 years ago, when Gallup first asked the question.

More broadly, some 78% of Americans today believe that God had a hand in the development of humans in some way, just slightly less than the percentage who felt this way 30 years ago."


Your claim of overwhelming majority is a strawman. They just yell louder in public than those that don't.

 

[stevevw]

Which is corrupted, and you use that corruption for your own personal benefit.

Bad tree, bad fruit -- no matter how many exceptions you make for yourself.

Jesus knew and acknowledged that people had to abide by the system that they lived in. He showed this when the pharisees tried to trick him about paying taxes to Caesar. He said give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is Gods.
Mark 12: 12-17
12Then the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders looked for a way to arrest him because they knew he had spoken the parable against them. But they were afraid of the crowd; so they left him and went away.
Paying the Imperial Tax to Caesar
13Later they sent some of the Pharisees and Herodians to Jesus to catch him in his words. 14They came to him and said, “Teacher, we know that you are a man of integrity. You aren’t swayed by others, because you pay no attention to who they are; but you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. Is it right to pay the imperial taxb to Caesar or not? 15Should we pay or shouldn’t we?”
But Jesus knew their hypocrisy. “Why are you trying to trap me?” he asked. “Bring me a denarius and let me look at it.” 16They brought the coin, and he asked them, “Whose image is this? And whose inscription?”
“Caesar’s,” they replied.
17Then Jesus said to them, “Give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.”
And they were amazed at him.

In other words when the pharisees tried to trap him by making him say dont acknowledge Caesar or pay him any taxes. He said do both but when it comes to God acknowledge who he is and what position he takes in all things. As Jesus has said before God is the one who sent Jesus and the one that Jesus the Son of God obeyed above all.

So we can be a part of this world because we are mortals and need to eat and have shelter. We need a certain level of things. Its when you start to place those things above God and make them more important that you make them your God. You cannot serve two masters God and money.
Matthew 6:24
24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

So we have to use that money to get certain things but that is not because we make money the be all and end all. But because it is a necessary thing. A Christians allegiance is to God above all and money is secondary. Whereas people of this world who make this world the only thing that represents existence they will make money and material processions the most important thing and their God.

 

[dad]

Jesus knew and acknowledged that people had to abide by the system that they lived in.

Right, So Joseph and Mary should have abided by Herod's wishes? Paul should have rebuked the angel freeing him from jail? Jesus should have agreed with the rulers he was demon possessed and a fraud? His disciples should have obeyed the laws and leaders and all betrayed Jesus who was a wanted man? Jesus should have surrendered to police after turning over money changers tables? People should receive the mark of the beast because it is mandatory by law? Moses should have been given up to be killed as a baby rather than secreted off to safety?

He showed this when the pharisees tried to trick him about paying taxes to Caesar. He said give to Caesar what is Caesars and give to God what is Gods.

So what is God's? And what is Caesar's!? A coin that Caesar had minted was Caesar's, but all that we are is God's!

In other words when the pharisees tried to trap him by making him say dont acknowledge Caesar or pay him any taxes. He said do both but when it comes to God acknowledge who he is and what position he takes in all things. As Jesus has said before God is the one who sent Jesus and the one that Jesus the Son of God obeyed above all.

Right...above all.

So we can be a part of this world because we are mortals and need to eat and have shelter. We need a certain level of things. Its when you start to place those things above God and make them more important that you make them your God. You cannot serve two masters God and money.

Being part of the world doesn't mean being something God doesn't want us to be. It is a bit more like living with the enemy I would think, rather than getting to comfortable and one with the world. We are strangers and pilgrims here and this world is not our home.

So we have to use that money to get certain things but that is not because we make money the be all and end all. But because it is a necessary thing.

It was necessary for Elijah also, but God fed him by a crow in the wilderness. Moses had manna. Those who refuse the mark of the beast will have some supply also.

A Christians allegiance is to God above all and money is secondary.

I might think it is less than that. Love God and---others! Money is down the list somewhere.