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If it was cheap, I probably drank it.Hammster, you told me that when you were younger, you were a Schlitz Malt Liquor man.
Most people don't "plan" to get drunk when they take that first drink....they are deceived into believing that drinking "in moderation" (which is a big joke) is okay. No one who takes an alcoholic beverage to his/her lips knows exactly where it will lead.If you don't plan to get drunk, and can exhibit self-control, you don't have to worry, either.
If you have that problem, then don't drink. But to think because you have an issue with drinking means that all do, then you are mistaken. There is no biblical prohibition against drinking, just drunkenness.Most people don't "plan" to get drunk when they take that first drink....they are deceived into believing that drinking "in moderation" (which is a big joke) is okay. No one who takes an alcoholic beverage to his/her lips knows exactly where it will lead.
What's the joke? I drink in moderation. If you don't believe that's possible, it is you who has the problem, not me.Most people don't "plan" to get drunk when they take that first drink....they are deceived into believing that drinking "in moderation" (which is a big joke) is okay.
Then I guess the "joke" is on you! The "joke" is the fact that you are being deceived. By stating that you "drink in moderation" and it has never affected you is proof of that fact.What's the joke? I drink in moderation. If you don't believe that's possible, it is you who has the problem, not me.
Then I guess the "joke" is on you! The "joke" is the fact that you are being deceived. By stating that you "drink in moderation" and it has never affected you is proof of that fact.
It isn't me who has the problem, it is those who believe that they can KNOW for sure that the alcohol they drink "in moderation" will NEVER affect them or anybody else. Have you ever watched anyone die a slow alcoholic death? I have, and it isn't a pretty sight. That person was a member of my family and was told he could drink "in moderation, but just don't get drunk".
How many innocent people have been deceived by the "drinking in moderation" lie? How many have been caused to stumble and have become alcoholics/drunkards because of the actions of others who have deceived them into believing the "drinking in moderation" lie?
You may believe it is possible to drink in moderation and there is nothing wrong with it because you KNOW you aren't going to get drunk. Maybe it is...but 9 chances out of 10, you really don't know...and that is the deception.
Again, I repeat, the "joke" is on you...and the "joke" is a deception from the devil himself.
That is exactly what I did. Proverbs 20:1 is speaking of wine being a mocker and strong drink raging...and WHOSOEVER is deceived thereby is not wise. Who is not wise? Certainly not the wine and strong drink...but whosoever is deceived by the wine and strong drink.Again, look at it from a scriptural perspective.
It clearly does say so:If scriptures prohibited drinking, then why does it not say so?
Jesus did not drink or make alcoholic wine. Since the Lord Jesus Christ was "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" (Hebrews 7:26), it is safe to assume that He would not make that which is called in Scripture a mocker and deceiver of man (Proverbs 20:1), causing untold misery.If scriptures prohibit drinking, then why was one of Jesus' first miracles turning water into wine?
1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;If scriptures prohibit drinking, why did Paul write:
"Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine" -1 Tim. 3:8 (KJV)
If scriptures prohibit drinking, why then are the qualifications different for deacons and bishops?
"Not given to wine" -1 Tim. 3:3 (KJV)
So? Does that make it biblical? How do you know that? Were you there? Does that justify using wine for communion?Also, did you know that before Prohibition, most Baptist churches used wine in communion?
Proverbs 31:6-7 describes the only proper use of an alcoholic beverage, which is as a narcotic to deaden pain. Verse 7 is a reminder that alcoholic beverages cause forgetfulness and unconcern. Also, verse 7 is not given as advice for the poor but as further warning to the king (vs. 4-5) --alcoholic wine will produce a drunken stupor. It is therefore to be used only by the foolish. If a poor man is wise, he will avoid alcoholic beverages entirely.Seems to me I remember reading in Proverbs:
"Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more." -Pro. 31:6-7 (KJV)
The word wine in the Bible is a generic word. The context in which it is used determines whether it is fermented or unfermented (fruit of the vine). In the verses you quoted above, the word "wine" is speaking of the pure "fruit of the vine"...non-fermented wine or grape juice.The joy of wisdom is compared to wine:
"Come, eat of my bread, and drink of the wine which I have mingled." -Pro. 9:5 (KJV)
It also says in Joel:
"Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:" -Joel 2:19 (KJV)
According to Scripture, you are being deceived. I abstain because the Word of God teaches abstinence and I'll stick with the Word of God, not the "opinion" of men.If you choose to abstain, I aplaude you, but there is nothing wrong according to scripture with having a drink of wine.
That is exactly what I did. Proverbs 20:1 is speaking of wine being a mocker and strong drink raging...and WHOSOEVER is deceived thereby is not wise. Who is not wise? Certainly not the wine and strong drink...but whosoever is deceived by the wine and strong drink.
Proverbs 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
It clearly does say so:
Proverbs 23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
Proverbs 23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
Proverbs 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
Proverbs 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
Proverbs 23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
Proverbs 31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
Proverbs 31:5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
Are not born again believers "kings and priests unto God" (Rev. 1:6)?
Jesus did not drink or make alcoholic wine. Since the Lord Jesus Christ was "holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners" (Hebrews 7:26), it is safe to assume that He would not make that which is called in Scripture a mocker and deceiver of man (Proverbs 20:1), causing untold misery.
The word wine in the Bible is a generic word. The context in which it is used determines whether it is fermented or unfermented (fruit of the vine).
1 Timothy 3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
The phrase not given to is from a Greek phrase which is also translated regardeth (Romans 14:6) and take heed to (Acts 5:35). The deacon must not be a man who regards alcoholic beverages. Verse 8 begins with "likewise", which means "in the same way" or "after the same (in like) manner" referring back to the qualification of the pastor.
So? Does that make it biblical? How do you know that? Were you there? Does that justify using wine for communion?
Proverbs 31:6-7 describes the only proper use of an alcoholic beverage, which is as a narcotic to deaden pain. Verse 7 is a reminder that alcoholic beverages cause forgetfulness and unconcern. Also, verse 7 is not given as advice for the poor but as further warning to the king (vs. 4-5) --alcoholic wine will produce a drunken stupor. It is therefore to be used only by the foolish. If a poor man is wise, he will avoid alcoholic beverages entirely.
The word wine in the Bible is a generic word. The context in which it is used determines whether it is fermented or unfermented (fruit of the vine). In the verses you quoted above, the word "wine" is speaking of the pure "fruit of the vine"...non-fermented wine or grape juice.
According to Scripture, you are being deceived. I abstain because the Word of God teaches abstinence and I'll stick with the Word of God, not the "opinion" of men.
If you choose to abstain, I aplaude you, but there is nothing wrong according to scripture with having a drink of wine.
In the New Testament, we have Paul's 1st epistle to the saints in Thessalonika, where he writes:
1 Thessalonians 5:6 (KJV) Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
Here, Paul speaks of night and day, drunk and sober.
Just as night and day are at opposite poles, so drunk and sober are at opposite poles. The Greek word for "sober" here is the word "nepho" Nepho's primary definition is "to abstain from wine".
In the New Testament, the word is only used in the figurative sense,...Equation of spiritual endowment with Dionysiac intoxication might seem natural to outsiders (Acts 2:12 ff.; cf. Eph. 5:18), bit it is quite misleading. There is thusd no reason for a relativising or paradoxical estimation of soberness. The five passages in which the word is used (1 Thes. 5:6, 8; 2 Tim. 4:5; 1 Pet. 1:13; 4:7; 5:8) make it clear that "nhfein" consists in acknowledgement of the reality given with God's revelation and in the discharge of the resultant ministry by worship, hope, love, and warfare. The basis of the obviously uniform use in the NT is the usage established by the Spirit (not the letter) of the OT.
"oinoV" Wine is very significant in Palestine. According to Gen. 9:20 Noah, the forefather of the new race, is also the first to cultivate the vine. In the OT there are many sayings in praise of wine. In Ju. 9:13 it is the drink which makes glad both men and gods, cf. Ps. 104:15. Fulness of wine is a special blessing from God, Gn. 27:28, 37; Jl. 2:23 f. Abstinance from wine (cf. the position of the Rechabites in Jer. 35, or Hos. 2:1014; 3:1, where wine is linked to Baal worship) is rare.
On the other hand, there are many warnings against overindulgance, cf. Is. 5:11; Prv. 20:1; 21:17; Sir. 19:1 ff.AS in the ancient world generally, wine has a cultic significance in the OT too, and there are many precise regulations for offering the sacrifice of wine (Ex. 29:38-41; Nu. 15:2-15).
In the New Testament, "oinoV" is mainly used in the literal sense of "wine," and never in a cultic relation. A charactistic of the Baptist (John) is that he abstains from wine, Lk. 1:15; cf. 7:33 (mt. 11:18). As those dedicated to God in the OT refrained from wine or intoxicating drinks (Nu. 6:3; cf. Ju. 13:4, 7), so John, fully consecrated to God, must be controlled solely by the fullness of the Holy Spirit.
In distinction from the Baptist, Jesus drank wine, as may be seen from Mt. 11:19; Lk. 7:37 (Jesus as "oinopothV"). According to Mk. 2:18-22 and par. Jesus justified His conduct on the ground that the time when the bridegroom is present is one of festivity. Jesus is more than a Nazarite; hence the corresponding OT regulations do not apply to Him. He explains this in the parable of the new wine and the old skins, Mk. 2:22 and par. The new which he brings cannot be mixed withthe old. Lk. 5:39 added the difficult saying: "[kai] oudeiV piwn palaion qelei neon: legei gar, o palaioV crhstoV estin."
In the accounts of the Last Supper, the term "oinoV" occurs neither in the Synopticts nor Paul. It is obvious, however, that according to custom Jesus was proffering wine in the cup over which He pronounced the blessing; this may be seen especially from the solemn "genhmatoV thV ampelou" (Mk. 14:25 and par.) which was borrowed from JudaismIn this final saying before the passioin Jesus looks forward triumpantly to the consumation in the kingdom of God which He often describes elsewhere (cf. Mt. 8:11; 22:1-14) in the image of a common meal.
Probably because in Jesus' time the reason alcohol was present in wine was due to the fermentation process. It wasn't a substance directly added to the beverage as it is today, and it would not be present until fermentation took place.why do some people think that at the wedding in Cana, that Jesus turned the water into non alcoholic wine?
the yeast is on the outside of the grapes skin, so it will naturally ferment, alcohol does not have to be addedSkala is wrong; alcoholic drinks are not a gift from God. Water is a gift, the grapes are a gift, when made into a beverage it is a gift. But when man manufactures alcohol and adds it to drinks, or in the case of liquor it is almost totally alcohol, that is an insult to God to call such a substance made by man a gift of God. Arsenic, even though is is used to poison pesty rats, is also not a gift of God
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