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you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it.
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Hi bene. Did ya ever notice the greek word used for "destroy" in that verse?
http://www.scripture4all.org/
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I came to destroy/kata-lusai <2647> (5658) the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy/kata-lusai <2647> (5658) , but to fulfil.
Reve 9:11 and they are having on them a king, the messenger of the abyss, name to him to-Hebrew, Abaddon/abaddwn <3>, and in the greecian name he is having Destroyer/Ruiner/apo-lluwn <623>.
Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to be becoming these-things, up-bend ye!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the Loosing/apo-lutrwsiV <629> of ye
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Oh goodie..Scripture!!!
Romans 11:16 For if the first-fruit holy and the kneading, and if the root holy and the boughs,
17 if yet any of the boughs are broken off, thou yet a field-olive being in-pierced in them, and together-communioner of the root of the fatness of the olive you became,
18 no thou be according-boasting of the boughs. If yet thou according-boasting, not thou the root are bearing, but the root thee.
19 Thou shall be declaring then are broken-off boughs that I may be in-pierced
20 Ideally to the un-belief/faithless they are broken-off, thou yet to the Faith/Belief have stood. No being high minded, but be fearing.
21 For if the God/YHWH of the according to nature, boughes, not He spares, neither of thee He shall be sparing.
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katherine2001
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I would like to see the New Testament proof for the change in how God is to be worshipped myself. Considering that God was quite specific about how He is quite specific about how it is done in the Old Testament, I would think that He would be just as specific if it was changed after Christ. Therefore, I'm sure many of us would like to know where in the New Testament that new step-by-step instructions of how God is to be worshiped now. If there were, churches wouldn't be worshiping Him all different ways. Jewish worship was uniform. You certainly can't say that about Christian worship. As OrthodoxyUSA said, Jesus became the fulfillment of what God set up in the Old Testament. He set it up knowing that Christ would become incarnate (as God-Man), live a sinless life, be crucified on the cross, and be resurrected. He knew that Christ's sacrifice would take the place of animal sacrifice and be the fulfillment of the worship that had been specified in the Old Testament. Orthodox (and I imagine other churches also) also read and interpret the Old Testament in light of Christ.
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From Passover to Eucharist: God’s Liberating Love
By Rev. Lawrence E. Mick
The central liturgical ritual among Christians, especially among Catholics, is the celebration of the Eucharist. Among Jews, that title probably belongs to the celebration of the Passover. Since Jesus was a Jew, we should not be surprised to find that there are connections between these two liturgical rituals. Sorting out just what those connections are, however, is not as easy as it might seem. In this Update we’ll try to tackle the task.
At first glance, it seems quite simple. Christians see the first Eucharist as taking place at the Last Supper, the night before Jesus was crucified. The New Testament presents this meal as a Passover meal. So the first Eucharist was a Passover celebration, and the Eucharist is the Christian Passover. There are a variety of problems with that picture, however, as we will see.
A Passover meal?
One problem is that scholars are not sure whether the Last Supper was a Passover meal or not. The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) indicate that it was, but John’s Gospel places the Last Supper on the night before Passover. In John’s Gospel, Jesus is crucified at the same time that the Passover lambs were being slaughtered at the temple for the meal that would follow that evening.
For many years, scholars assumed that the Synoptic version was more accurate historically, but recently a consensus seems to be developing that sees John as very concerned about dates and times. This view suggests that John’s dating is correct and that the other writers recast the meal as a Passover meal to make a point about the meaning of Jesus’ death and resurrection.
The issue cannot be definitively settled at this point, but it should make us careful about assuming that the Last Supper was a Passover meal. Moreover, the descriptions of the meal that come to us from the Gospels do not sound much like the Passover. There is no mention of lamb, or bitter herbs or any of the other elements that were unique to the Passover. (Actually, we’re not too sure how the Passover ritual was celebrated in the time of Jesus, since the first detailed descriptions we have of the Passover ritual are from a later date.)
To further complicate matters, Luke’s Gospel indicates a different pattern for the meal than Mark and Matthew. Luke relates the sharing of a cup first, then the bread and then another cup, a pattern that matches a common Jewish festive meal, but not necessarily the Passover.
Another key point is that Passover is celebrated only once a year, not weekly as the Christian Eucharist was celebrated from the beginning. It is also instructive to note that the Passover required unleavened bread, while Christians used leavened bread for the Eucharist for a millennium in the West and to this day in the East. Scholars suggest that the Eucharist stems more from the common meals Jesus shared with his disciples, especially after the Resurrection, than from the Passover ritual. Not as simple as it seems, is it!
The Meaning of the meal
Whether the Last Supper was or was not a Passover meal, the early Christians saw it as the fulfillment of the Passover. As we noted above, the Synoptic Gospels cast the meal itself as a Passover supper, while John sees Jesus as the paschal lamb sacrificed on the cross. St. Paul also links Christ’s death and resurrection with the Passover in First Corinthians: “Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth” (1 Cor 5:7-8).
To understand the Eucharist, then, it is important for us to understand the meaning of the Passover celebration. The roots of this festival are very ancient, even preceding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt. The later Passover is really a combination of two celebrations: a nomadic tribal sacrifice of a lamb whose blood is sprinkled on the tent pegs to ward off evil spirits and an agrarian ritual marking spring and the harvest of new grain with the use of unleavened bread. As nomads settled among local farmers, these two celebrations were combined.
The Hebrew Bible, however, gives a new meaning to these combined rituals by linking them to the events of the Exodus. As part of that event, God sent a series of plagues to afflict the Egyptians. When the final plague was announced, the death of the firstborn by the destroying angel, the Israelites slaughtered lambs and marked their homes with the blood, thus warding off this evil. Then they fled Egypt in haste, without time for bread to rise, so they ate unleavened bread (see Ex 12:21-36.)
A feast of identity
For the Jews, then, the Passover is a celebration of the Exodus. It is a feast of liberation, rejoicing in God’s wondrous acts on their behalf that set them free from slavery. The Exodus was also the event that established Israel as a people, as God’s chosen people. In the United States, our Fourth of July rituals celebrate our independence and our identity as a nation. Passover had a similar significance for the Jewish people.
In at least one significant respect, though, the Jewish understanding of the celebration was quite different from the way we Americans think of the Fourth of July. We celebrate an event that happened over 200 years ago. We celebrate our continuing freedom, but we think of that past event as long gone and out of reach. Even though some of us may dress up in colonial garb, we don’t really think of ourselves as being present at the signing of the Declaration of Independence or of taking part in the Revolutionary War that achieved our freedom.
For the Jews, on the other hand, remembering the Exodus is more than just a mental recall. The Book of Exodus commands the Jewish father to explain the meaning of the feast this way: “On this day you shall explain to your son, ‘This is because of what the Lord did for me when I came out of Egypt’” (13:8).
All Jews are to celebrate the feast as though they had been alive at the time of the Exodus. They see the feast as somehow bringing them into contact with that ancient event. This is the concept we try to express with the term “memorial” (anamnesis in Greek). Through the ritual observance, the contemporary Jew not only remembers the past but also relives it.
At the same time, the memorial celebration of the Passover also proclaims God’s continuing liberating action on behalf of God’s people in the present day and looks forward to the fulfillment of God’s promises for complete salvation when the Messiah comes. Just as God acted in the past, God continues to act in the present and will act in the future to save us.
Christ’s exodus
Jesus drew on this concept of memorial when he told his disciples, during the Last Supper, to “do this in memory of me” (Lk 22:19). The Church has long understood that the celebration of the Eucharist brings us into contact with the saving actions of Christ. That is the way we are able to share in his sacrifice, his exodus through death to resurrected life.
His sacrifice is not repeated; he died once for all and death has no more power over him. But his sacrifice is also eternal and enacting the ritual of the Eucharist enables us to enter into that eternal act.
Though the Church has long held this basic view that the Eucharist brings us into contact with Christ’s sacrifice, it has not endorsed any theological explanation of how this happens.
One way to understand what happens is to recognize that the core of Christ’s sacrifice was his commitment to the Father’s will, clearly expressed in the agony in the garden: “Not my will but yours be done” (Lk 22:42). This commitment led him to the cross and resurrection at one point in history, but Christ’s will is eternally united with the Father’s will.
Christ is forever victim, forever priest. When we celebrate the Eucharist, we are invited to enter into that eternal act, aligning our wills with the Father’s will as Jesus did. Thus we become one with Christ and share in his sacrificial act. This can help us to realize the breadth of the commitment we make when we “do this in memory” of Jesus.
What did Jesus mean by “this”? What are we to do in memory of him? Pope Benedict XVI addressed this question in a homily at World Youth Day in Germany in August 2005. “Jesus did not instruct us,” Benedict said, “to repeat the Passover meal, which in any event, given that it is an anniversary, is not repeatable at will. He instructed us to enter into his ‘hour.’” The pope goes on to suggest that Jesus’ hour is the “hour in which love triumphs” and that we share his hour if we “allow ourselves, through the celebration of the Eucharist, to be drawn into that process of transformation that the Lord intends to bring about.”
In memory of Jesus, then, we are to be transformed by adopting his attitude of love and his commitment to the Father’s will. We share his sacrifice not only by carrying out the ritual of the Mass but also by living our lives in accord with God’s will.
The Amen that we sing at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer at every Mass commits us to a whole way of life. Our Eucharist is only authentic if it expresses the meaning of our whole lives. What we are to do in memory of Jesus is to live and love as he did.
True Liberation
When Jesus described his ministry in Luke’s Gospel, he quoted Isaiah: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim a year acceptable to the Lord” (4:18-19). Those words echo the Passover’s celebration of God as a liberator of the oppressed, and they stand as a challenge to us to embrace Christ’s mission as our own.
Pope John Paul II, in announcing the 2004-2005 Year of the Eucharist—the year that he himself died—reminded us that the Eucharist requires this kind of commitment for its authentic celebration. There is one other point which I would like to emphasize, since it significantly affects the authenticity of our communal sharing in the Eucharist. It is the impulse which the Eucharist gives to the community for a practical commitment to building a more just and fraternal society.
In the Eucharist our God has shown love in the extreme, overturning all those criteria of power which too often govern human relations and radically affirming the criterion of service: “If anyone wishes to be first, he shall be the last of all and the servant of all” (Mk 9:35). It is not by chance that the Gospel of John contains no account of the institution of the Eucharist, but instead relates the “washing of feet” (see Jn 13:1-20). By bending down to wash the feet of his disciples, Jesus explains the meaning of the Eucharist unequivocally. St. Paul vigorously reaffirms the impropriety of a eucharistic celebration lacking charity expressed by practical sharing with the poor (see 1 Cor 11:17-22, 27-34).
We cannot delude ourselves: By our mutual love and, in particular, by our concern for those in need we will be recognized as true followers of Christ (see Jn 13:35; Mt 25:31-46). This will be the criterion by which the authenticity of our eucharistic celebrations is judged (Mane Nobiscum Domine, #28).
From Passover to Easter—to Sunday
Jews celebrate God’s saving action in the Exodus every year at Passover. Christians celebrate Jesus’ passing through death to the new life every year in the great three days we call Triduum: Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter. This is the closest Christian parallel to Passover.
Of course, we also celebrate the Resurrection of the Lord every Sunday when we gather for Eucharist, which is why Sunday is sometimes called “a little Easter.”
We don’t celebrate the Passover ritual, but the meaning of the Passover meal and the meaning of the eucharistic meal are related. Our God is a God of freedom and life. Both Christians and Jews celebrate God’s saving love and thus commit themselves to imitating that love. That’s the deepest meaning of both Passover and Eucharist.
Lawrence E. Mick is a priest of the Archdiocese of Cincinnati. He holds a master’s degree in liturgical studies from the University of Notre Dame. He is the author of over 500 articles in various publications. His latest book is I Like Being in Parish Ministry: Presider (Twenty-Third Publications).
By Rev. Lawrence E. Mick
The central liturgical ritual among Christians, especially among Catholics, is the celebration of the Eucharist. Among Jews, that title probably belongs to the celebration of the Passover. Since Jesus was a Jew, we should not be surprised to find that there are connections between these two liturgical rituals. Sorting out just what those connections are, however, is not as easy as it might seem. In this Update we’ll try to tackle the task.
At first glance, it seems quite simple. Christians see the first Eucharist as taking place at the Last Supper, the night before Jesus was crucified. The New Testament presents this meal as a Passover meal. So the first Eucharist was a Passover celebration, and the Eucharist is the Christian Passover. There are a variety of problems with that picture, however, as we will see.
A Passover meal?
One problem is that scholars are not sure whether the Last Supper was a Passover meal or not. The Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark and Luke) indicate that it was, but John’s Gospel places the Last Supper on the night before Passover. In John’s Gospel, Jesus is crucified at the same time that the Passover lambs were being slaughtered at the temple for the meal that would follow that evening.
For many years, scholars assumed that the Synoptic version was more accurate historically, but recently a consensus seems to be developing that sees John as very concerned about dates and times. This view suggests that John’s dating is correct and that the other writers recast the meal as a Passover meal to make a point about the meaning of Jesus’ death and resurrection.
The issue cannot be definitively settled at this point, but it should make us careful about assuming that the Last Supper was a Passover meal. Moreover, the descriptions of the meal that come to us from the Gospels do not sound much like the Passover. There is no mention of lamb, or bitter herbs or any of the other elements that were unique to the Passover. (Actually, we’re not too sure how the Passover ritual was celebrated in the time of Jesus, since the first detailed descriptions we have of the Passover ritual are from a later date.)
To further complicate matters, Luke’s Gospel indicates a different pattern for the meal than Mark and Matthew. Luke relates the sharing of a cup first, then the bread and then another cup, a pattern that matches a common Jewish festive meal, but not necessarily the Passover.
Another key point is that Passover is celebrated only once a year, not weekly as the Christian Eucharist was celebrated from the beginning. It is also instructive to note that the Passover required unleavened bread, while Christians used leavened bread for the Eucharist for a millennium in the West and to this day in the East. Scholars suggest that the Eucharist stems more from the common meals Jesus shared with his disciples, especially after the Resurrection, than from the Passover ritual. Not as simple as it seems, is it!
The Meaning of the meal
Whether the Last Supper was or was not a Passover meal, the early Christians saw it as the fulfillment of the Passover. As we noted above, the Synoptic Gospels cast the meal itself as a Passover supper, while John sees Jesus as the paschal lamb sacrificed on the cross. St. Paul also links Christ’s death and resurrection with the Passover in First Corinthians: “Clear out the old yeast, so that you may become a fresh batch of dough, inasmuch as you are unleavened. For our paschal lamb, Christ, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us celebrate the feast, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth” (1 Cor 5:7-8).
To understand the Eucharist, then, it is important for us to understand the meaning of the Passover celebration. The roots of this festival are very ancient, even preceding the Exodus of the Jews from Egypt. The later Passover is really a combination of two celebrations: a nomadic tribal sacrifice of a lamb whose blood is sprinkled on the tent pegs to ward off evil spirits and an agrarian ritual marking spring and the harvest of new grain with the use of unleavened bread. As nomads settled among local farmers, these two celebrations were combined.
The Hebrew Bible, however, gives a new meaning to these combined rituals by linking them to the events of the Exodus. As part of that event, God sent a series of plagues to afflict the Egyptians. When the final plague was announced, the death of the firstborn by the destroying angel, the Israelites slaughtered lambs and marked their homes with the blood, thus warding off this evil. Then they fled Egypt in haste, without time for bread to rise, so they ate unleavened bread (see Ex 12:21-36.)
A feast of identity
For the Jews, then, the Passover is a celebration of the Exodus. It is a feast of liberation, rejoicing in God’s wondrous acts on their behalf that set them free from slavery. The Exodus was also the event that established Israel as a people, as God’s chosen people. In the United States, our Fourth of July rituals celebrate our independence and our identity as a nation. Passover had a similar significance for the Jewish people.
In at least one significant respect, though, the Jewish understanding of the celebration was quite different from the way we Americans think of the Fourth of July. We celebrate an event that happened over 200 years ago. We celebrate our continuing freedom, but we think of that past event as long gone and out of reach. Even though some of us may dress up in colonial garb, we don’t really think of ourselves as being present at the signing of the Declaration of Independence or of taking part in the Revolutionary War that achieved our freedom.
For the Jews, on the other hand, remembering the Exodus is more than just a mental recall. The Book of Exodus commands the Jewish father to explain the meaning of the feast this way: “On this day you shall explain to your son, ‘This is because of what the Lord did for me when I came out of Egypt’” (13:8).
All Jews are to celebrate the feast as though they had been alive at the time of the Exodus. They see the feast as somehow bringing them into contact with that ancient event. This is the concept we try to express with the term “memorial” (anamnesis in Greek). Through the ritual observance, the contemporary Jew not only remembers the past but also relives it.
At the same time, the memorial celebration of the Passover also proclaims God’s continuing liberating action on behalf of God’s people in the present day and looks forward to the fulfillment of God’s promises for complete salvation when the Messiah comes. Just as God acted in the past, God continues to act in the present and will act in the future to save us.
Christ’s exodus
Jesus drew on this concept of memorial when he told his disciples, during the Last Supper, to “do this in memory of me” (Lk 22:19). The Church has long understood that the celebration of the Eucharist brings us into contact with the saving actions of Christ. That is the way we are able to share in his sacrifice, his exodus through death to resurrected life.
His sacrifice is not repeated; he died once for all and death has no more power over him. But his sacrifice is also eternal and enacting the ritual of the Eucharist enables us to enter into that eternal act.
Though the Church has long held this basic view that the Eucharist brings us into contact with Christ’s sacrifice, it has not endorsed any theological explanation of how this happens.
One way to understand what happens is to recognize that the core of Christ’s sacrifice was his commitment to the Father’s will, clearly expressed in the agony in the garden: “Not my will but yours be done” (Lk 22:42). This commitment led him to the cross and resurrection at one point in history, but Christ’s will is eternally united with the Father’s will.
Christ is forever victim, forever priest. When we celebrate the Eucharist, we are invited to enter into that eternal act, aligning our wills with the Father’s will as Jesus did. Thus we become one with Christ and share in his sacrificial act. This can help us to realize the breadth of the commitment we make when we “do this in memory” of Jesus.
What did Jesus mean by “this”? What are we to do in memory of him? Pope Benedict XVI addressed this question in a homily at World Youth Day in Germany in August 2005. “Jesus did not instruct us,” Benedict said, “to repeat the Passover meal, which in any event, given that it is an anniversary, is not repeatable at will. He instructed us to enter into his ‘hour.’” The pope goes on to suggest that Jesus’ hour is the “hour in which love triumphs” and that we share his hour if we “allow ourselves, through the celebration of the Eucharist, to be drawn into that process of transformation that the Lord intends to bring about.”
In memory of Jesus, then, we are to be transformed by adopting his attitude of love and his commitment to the Father’s will. We share his sacrifice not only by carrying out the ritual of the Mass but also by living our lives in accord with God’s will.
The Amen that we sing at the end of the Eucharistic Prayer at every Mass commits us to a whole way of life. Our Eucharist is only authentic if it expresses the meaning of our whole lives. What we are to do in memory of Jesus is to live and love as he did.
True Liberation
When Jesus described his ministry in Luke’s Gospel, he quoted Isaiah: “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to bring glad tidings to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to captives and recovery of sight to the blind, to let the oppressed go free, and to proclaim a year acceptable to the Lord” (4:18-19). Those words echo the Passover’s celebration of God as a liberator of the oppressed, and they stand as a challenge to us to embrace Christ’s mission as our own.
Pope John Paul II, in announcing the 2004-2005 Year of the Eucharist—the year that he himself died—reminded us that the Eucharist requires this kind of commitment for its authentic celebration. There is one other point which I would like to emphasize, since it significantly affects the authenticity of our communal sharing in the Eucharist. It is the impulse which the Eucharist gives to the community for a practical commitment to building a more just and fraternal society.
In the Eucharist our God has shown love in the extreme, overturning all those criteria of power which too often govern human relations and radically affirming the criterion of service: “If anyone wishes to be first, he shall be the last of all and the servant of all” (Mk 9:35). It is not by chance that the Gospel of John contains no account of the institution of the Eucharist, but instead relates the “washing of feet” (see Jn 13:1-20). By bending down to wash the feet of his disciples, Jesus explains the meaning of the Eucharist unequivocally. St. Paul vigorously reaffirms the impropriety of a eucharistic celebration lacking charity expressed by practical sharing with the poor (see 1 Cor 11:17-22, 27-34).
We cannot delude ourselves: By our mutual love and, in particular, by our concern for those in need we will be recognized as true followers of Christ (see Jn 13:35; Mt 25:31-46). This will be the criterion by which the authenticity of our eucharistic celebrations is judged (Mane Nobiscum Domine, #28).
From Passover to Easter—to Sunday
Jews celebrate God’s saving action in the Exodus every year at Passover. Christians celebrate Jesus’ passing through death to the new life every year in the great three days we call Triduum: Holy Thursday, Good Friday and Easter. This is the closest Christian parallel to Passover.
Of course, we also celebrate the Resurrection of the Lord every Sunday when we gather for Eucharist, which is why Sunday is sometimes called “a little Easter.”
We don’t celebrate the Passover ritual, but the meaning of the Passover meal and the meaning of the eucharistic meal are related. Our God is a God of freedom and life. Both Christians and Jews celebrate God’s saving love and thus commit themselves to imitating that love. That’s the deepest meaning of both Passover and Eucharist.
Lawrence E. Mick is a priest of the Archdiocese of Cincinnati. He holds a master’s degree in liturgical studies from the University of Notre Dame. He is the author of over 500 articles in various publications. His latest book is I Like Being in Parish Ministry: Presider (Twenty-Third Publications).
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Greeting bene!! That is nice and all so why should I join the RCC just to partake in the communion?
Hebrews 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine-service/latreiaV <2999> , and a worldly sanctuary.
Reve 22:3 And every anathema/kat-anaqema <2652> not shall be longer, and the throne of the God, and of the Lamb-kin in her shall be. And the bond-servents of Him shall-be-offering-divine-service/latreusousin <3000> (5692) to Him.
2999. latreia lat-ri'-ah from 3000; ministration of God, i.e. worship:--(divine) service.
3000. latreuo lat-ryoo'-o from latris (a hired menial); to minister (to God), i.e. render religious homage:--serve, do the service, worship(-per).
1495. eidolo-latreia i-do-lol-at-ri'-ah from 1497 and 2999; image-worship (literally or figuratively):--idolatry
1497. eidolon i'-do-lon from 1491; an image (i.e. for worship); by implication, a heathen god, or (plural) the worship of such:--idol.
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sunlover1
Beloved, Let us love one another
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Read Hebrews, take a bath in it, it is a great
book of explaination of the new priesthood,
the new Covenant, the necessity of new rules.
WE now are the temple.
In Spirit and in Truth.
Jesus explained it to the woman at the well.
Nothing wrong with differing styles of worship.
The test is ... Did GOD show up and transform lives.?.
Because God LIVES in the praises of His people.
When we worship Him, He shows up, because
that's the kind He is ...SEEKing...!!
It was. I made a post on it two pages back.
Here's an awesome song explaining it.
Hope it's as much a blessing to someone,
as it has been to me for many years
Oh the glory of your presence
We your temple, give you reverence
Come and rise from your rest
and be blessed by our praise
as we glory in your embrace.
As your presence now fills this place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MogkCg4-jSI&feature=related
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Can you produce the communion? By yourself?
Think about what the word means.
What is it that is being symbolized by us all partaking of the same communion.
If we could produce the sacraments on our own we would not need "The Church"... We could just pray alone and that would be all we needed.
No community efforts needed.
Forgive me...
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Where is The Eucharist in this?
When does this Church (in this video) "Do this" in rememberance of me.
I bet they don't. And if you asked them why... they would say theres just too many of them.
Forgive me...
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I posted this on a thread in OBOB, but they said it was not Catholic teaching. Melchizedek is a fascinating study and this Christian did an 8 part series on this mysterious "King/Priest", which is part of his commentary on the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD.
Hebrews 7:1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq/melcisedek <3198> , King of Salem/salhm <4532>, Priest/iereuV of the God/YHWH of the most-high, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him [Genesis 14:18]
12 For being changed/translated the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming/,
http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP24.htm
One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about.
The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION, that is, it is about the way Jesus Christ, and thus, His body, the Royal Priesthood, is related to a strange man named Melchizedek.
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E.C.
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Correct, we are Christians
Yet, is Christianity not the fulfillment of Judaism?
Is Christ not the Paschal Lamb and thus the center of all that is Christian?
Were the Apostles not from Jewish backgrounds; in an era when what is now called Orthodox Judaism was just Judaism? Thus, were they not from a liturgical background?
Did St. James the Apostle not write the first Divine Liturgy?
When someone starts something, do they not take all their prior knowledge and use it in the new "project" so to say?
Come on, now that I've put the dots on the wall, connect them.
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then I wonder why you aren't taking grain as a fellowship offering... or the like.
That MIGHT wash if the liturgical churches did it exactly as the Jews did, but they do NOT.
(in fact, todays Jews don't either.)
then stop misusing it.
I have my reasons. Why is yours unhinged?
I assume you know how to read, where did you miss the point that it was an expression? Cursed? I only remember one person actually doing that. And I can't reproduce it, it was in a PM, and long deleted. But that wasn't the point. I used it as an expression. If that escapes you, I can't help you understand it. It IS rather basic.
then we are on even ground. Not much of what you say means more than I would give credence to a bleating goat. I'm done speaking with you. Ciao.
I see. So not one Jot or Tittle. I suppose that means that you don't wear cotton polyester blends... and you don't eat shellfish or pork.... you know, those troublesome jots and tittles your talking about.
you supposedly know more than me.. you COULD look it up.
but here.
Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus
19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."
now go ahead and tell me how the Catholic interpretation means something else.
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Victrixa
Dear Lord have mercy on me!
Hi Uphill Battle,
This is an excellent reflexion!
Sorry, I haven't read through all the 24 pages of this thread, but I agree with you concerning the simplicity of early Christian worship.
From what I can see, there was liturgy in the early church but it was so simple that it probably resembled the simple Protestant services of our day!
What was in a Liturgy? Well, the service started out with hours and hours of Scripture reading - from the Old Testament and the New (Gospels, Epistles). Then a homely (or sermon) on how to live the Christian life was preached by an elder (I believe). Sometime in the liturgical service, there was the singing of Psalms. And a prayer meeting (prayers of thanksgiving and intercession and for the believers' present needs).
OK, towards the end of the meeting, there was this Eucharistic meal shared by all the believers (the non-believers present could not share into it so they had to leave). It was the Lord's Supper and many believed in the Real Presence, from what I can see.
A collection for the brothers in need was made.
It was really very simple and centered on the Word and the Eucharist.
This is my summary of what I have been reading here and there, anyways.
The first Christians were very Evangelical in nature.
This is an excellent reflexion!
Sorry, I haven't read through all the 24 pages of this thread, but I agree with you concerning the simplicity of early Christian worship.
From what I can see, there was liturgy in the early church but it was so simple that it probably resembled the simple Protestant services of our day!
What was in a Liturgy? Well, the service started out with hours and hours of Scripture reading - from the Old Testament and the New (Gospels, Epistles). Then a homely (or sermon) on how to live the Christian life was preached by an elder (I believe). Sometime in the liturgical service, there was the singing of Psalms. And a prayer meeting (prayers of thanksgiving and intercession and for the believers' present needs).
OK, towards the end of the meeting, there was this Eucharistic meal shared by all the believers (the non-believers present could not share into it so they had to leave). It was the Lord's Supper and many believed in the Real Presence, from what I can see.
A collection for the brothers in need was made.
It was really very simple and centered on the Word and the Eucharist.
This is my summary of what I have been reading here and there, anyways.
The first Christians were very Evangelical in nature.
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Theophorus
...
Melchizedek is a fascinating study and this Christian did an 8 part series on this mysterious "King/Priest", which is part of his commentary on the ROYAL PRIESTHOOD.
Hebrews 7:1 For this the Malkiy-Tsedeq/melcisedek <3198> , King of Salem/salhm <4532>, Priest/iereuV of the God/YHWH of the most-high, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him [Genesis 14:18]
12 For being changed/translated the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a change is becoming/,
http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP24.htm
One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about.
The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION, that is, it is about the way Jesus Christ, and thus, His body, the Royal Priesthood, is related to a strange man named Melchizedek.
Melchizedek is fascinating, especailly since the psalms and as verified in Hebrews say he is the lineage of Christ's priesthood.
According to my understanding, Christ is the " hieros"/ priest. And by consent and faith in Him, we partake of that priesthood as well. This is what Peter is talking about. It should not be confused with a prebstyr.
Melchizedek offered bread and wine in Salem/Jerusalem. In the Liturgy the prebstyr proclaims, "Thine own of thine own, we offer unto you". This has several deep meanings, but one of them is the prefigured of Christ as the High Priest/ hieros. And as priests by Christ, we declare, Amen.
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most would disagree, it would seem.Hi Uphill Battle,
This is an excellent reflexion!
Sorry, I haven't read through all the 24 pages of this thread, but I agree with you concerning the simplicity of early Christian worship.
From what I can see, there was liturgy in the early church but it was so simple that it probably resembled the simple Protestant services of our day!
What was in a Liturgy? Well, the service started out with hours and hours of Scripture reading - from the Old Testament and the New (Gospels, Epistles). Then a homely (or sermon) on how to live the Christian life was preached by an elder (I believe). Sometime in the liturgical service, there was the singing of Psalms. And a prayer meeting (prayers of thanksgiving and intercession and for the believers' present needs).
OK, towards the end of the meeting, there was this Eucharistic meal shared by all the believers (the non-believers present could not share into it so they had to leave). It was the Lord's Supper and many believed in the Real Presence, from what I can see.
A collection for the brothers in need was made.
It was really very simple and centered on the Word and the Eucharist.
This is my summary of what I have been reading here and there, anyways.
The first Christians were very Evangelical in nature.
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One of the 2 greek words used for the "jerusalem" in the NC also uses the word "salem" in it.I never noticed there were 2 different words used for that city.
Hierosoluma (Strong's 2414) occurs 59 times in 59 verses:
Hierousalem (Strong's 2419) occurs 83 times in 80 verses:
ierou-salhm <2419> #2411 #4532 ["Priest of Peace"]
Matthew 24:1 And coming-out, the Jesus, from the Temple/ierou <2411>, and his disciples toward-come to show him the buildings of the temple,
Hebrews 7:1 For this the Melchisedek/melcisedek <3198> , King of Salem/salhm <4532>, Priest/iereuV of the God of the Most High/uyistou <5310>, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him
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