you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it. (2)

Uphill Battle · Mar 24, 2008

benedictaoo said:
Uphill, All I hear is I am allowed to worship the way I want to because the bible says every--thing is permitted but I say what is beneficial.

and religious arrogance- see Uphill battle for that one.

You are so obtuse.... my heart bleeds for you.

right, Bene.

because I belong to a church that exludes others, consideres others ignorant, closes the doors to communion on all those who haven't signed up, require those who want to join to go through a long indoctrination period before being allowed as part of the chuch, assumes that they have everything right, claims that we are the only one true church, and demands exclucivity in regards to the scriptures.

yep. We're the religous snobs.

Uphill Battle · Mar 24, 2008

benedictaoo said:
Uphill, All I hear is I am allowed to worship the way I want to because the bible says every--thing is permitted but I say what is beneficial.

and religious arrogance- see Uphill battle for that one.

You are so obtuse.... my heart bleeds for you.

right, Bene.

because I belong to a church that exludes others, considers others ignorant, closes the doors to communion on all those who haven't signed up, require those who want to join to go through a long indoctrination period before being allowed as part of the church, assumes that they have everything right, claims that we are the only one true church, and demands exclucsivity in regards to the scriptures. Not to mention dictates a list of laws longer than the Jewish purity laws as "how's ya gotta live."

yep. We're the religous snobs, alright.

benedictaoo · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
right, Bene.

because I belong to a church that exludes others, considers others ignorant, closes the doors to communion on all those who haven't signed up, require those who want to join to go through a long indoctrination period before being allowed as part of the church, assumes that they have everything right, claims that we are the only one true church, and demands exclucsivity in regards to the scriptures. Not to mention dictates a list of laws longer than the Jewish purity laws as "how's ya gotta live."

yep. We're the religous snobs, alright.

No... you are not reading.. you think you can believe as you wish as long as you can jive it with the bible... admit it.

Uphill Battle · Mar 24, 2008

benedictaoo said:
No... you are not reading.. you think you can believe as you wish as long as you can jive it with the bible... admit it.

uh, pretty much.

but not in the way you suggest.

I know, us damn liberals.

Uphill Battle · Mar 24, 2008

benedictaoo said:
No... you are not reading.. you think you can believe as you wish as long as you can jive it with the bible... admit it.

uh, pretty much.

but not in the way you suggest.

I know, us damn liberals.

Apollo Celestio · Mar 24, 2008

I doubt even apostolic faith folk think it wrong to pray whats on our hearts..

Philothei · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
you have demonstrated that you don't get my point.

I'm not repeating myself.

Good because your point does not carry any weight.. And by the way no one of the "Apostolic Churches" denies praying "what's in one's heart" only that it is NOT ONLY PRAying in one's heart that is right....

benedictaoo · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
uh, pretty much.

but not in the way you suggest.

I know, us damn liberals.

Dude.

Montalban · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
you have demonstrated that you don't get my point.

I'm not repeating myself.

That's your answer when pressed. No one understands you.

benedictaoo · Mar 24, 2008

That's your answer when pressed. No one understands you.

NO that he reads the bible and what he concludes rules.

Montalban · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
no. I'm frustrated because you are lying about what It is that I DO say. You are quickly becoming the most dishonest person in this thread.

I'm not the one calling others names.

Uphill Battle said:
for me, it would be. squawking like a parrot, saying absolutely nothing.

If someone were squawking like a parrot, yes, but you've not shown that this is so, in light of the fact Jesus asked us to pray. And, he gave us a particular prayer to pray

Uphill Battle said:
no, we've found rare agreement. I've refuted nothing.

You refuted yourself

Uphill Battle said:
I've explained myself before. I'm not repeating it so you can twist it again. I've had enough dishonesty.

I apologise if you feel frustrated.

Uphill Battle said:
I do, and I'm sure a few others know too. Just because you are very talented at missing the point, is not my problem.

You have mutually conflicting points. You can both say that it doesn't matter as long as you profess faith in Jesus, and then say it does matter what you do.

Uphill Battle said:
I DID NOT SAY THIS.

See above where you talk about parrots! You refute yourself within one post.

Uphill Battle said:
You KNOW that I said it would be meaningless for ME to do so. If YOU can use a script to get close to God, bully for you. You know I did not condemn others for it, so STOP LYING.

Then you're refuting yourself again. You've been arguing in absolute terms 'squawking like a parrot would be meaningless'. Now you just say 'meaningless', but 'for you'. You need to make up your mind which argument you wish to have.

Uphill Battle said:
yes, I actually have dynamic conversation with my wife. I don't have a script book that I open to speak to her, one script this day, another script for another.

So you never say "I love you". You never buy her a card with someone else's words on it. You've never read her poetry?

Uphill Battle said:
and you are being petty. We are not talking about "how was your day." We are talking about taking someones conversation that is written down, and following it.

So if I were to read Shakespeare, and follow that script it has less meaning than if I just make up something on the spot, right there on stage?

Uphill Battle said:
and if it is not meaningless for you, great.

Then that's the end of your argument. You've stated what's important to you, you can't continue arguing against everyone else wanting to pray from prayer books.

Uphill Battle said:
I've done so. You are lying again.

No you have not. You just said you relied on something else. And even that is illogical to suggest that you rely on something other than Scripture to say you should rely ONLY on Scripture.

Can you not see the conflict in that?

the great irony here is it seems you hate this thread, not me!

Montalban · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
no. I'm frustrated because you are lying about what It is that I DO say. You are quickly becoming the most dishonest person in this thread.

I'm not the one calling others names.

Uphill Battle said:
for me, it would be. squawking like a parrot, saying absolutely nothing.

If someone were squawking like a parrot, yes, but you've not shown that this is so, in light of the fact Jesus asked us to pray. And, he gave us a particular prayer to pray

Uphill Battle said:
no, we've found rare agreement. I've refuted nothing.

You refuted yourself

Uphill Battle said:
I've explained myself before. I'm not repeating it so you can twist it again. I've had enough dishonesty.

I apologise if you feel frustrated.

Uphill Battle said:
I do, and I'm sure a few others know too. Just because you are very talented at missing the point, is not my problem.

You have mutually conflicting points. You can both say that it doesn't matter as long as you profess faith in Jesus, and then say it does matter what you do.

Uphill Battle said:
I DID NOT SAY THIS.

See above where you talk about parrots! You refute yourself within one post.

Uphill Battle said:
You KNOW that I said it would be meaningless for ME to do so. If YOU can use a script to get close to God, bully for you. You know I did not condemn others for it, so STOP LYING.

Then you're refuting yourself again. You've been arguing in absolute terms 'squawking like a parrot would be meaningless'. Now you just say 'meaningless', but 'for you'. You need to make up your mind which argument you wish to have.

Uphill Battle said:
yes, I actually have dynamic conversation with my wife. I don't have a script book that I open to speak to her, one script this day, another script for another.

So you never say "I love you". You never buy her a card with someone else's words on it. You've never read her poetry?

Uphill Battle said:
and you are being petty. We are not talking about "how was your day." We are talking about taking someones conversation that is written down, and following it.

So if I were to read Shakespeare, and follow that script it has less meaning than if I just make up something on the spot, right there on stage?

Uphill Battle said:
and if it is not meaningless for you, great.

Then that's the end of your argument. You've stated what's important to you, you can't continue arguing against everyone else wanting to pray from prayer books.

Uphill Battle said:
I've done so. You are lying again.

No you have not. You just said you relied on something else. And even that is illogical to suggest that you rely on something other than Scripture to say you should rely ONLY on Scripture.

Can you not see the conflict in that?

Montalban · Mar 24, 2008

benedictaoo said:
UB:What does God want from us? Authentic worship. What does he think of ritual without heart in it? Sin.

but where do you get this false notion from?

Here he can't make up his mind what argument he wants.

He both argues that there's an absolute 'authentic worship' (and that we don't follow this), but then argues relative truths about what is meaningful for him.

Uphill Battle · Mar 24, 2008

Montalban said:
That's your answer when pressed. No one understands you.

no, not nobody understands me, just that they don't comprehend what I'm saying. But then, I don't really care that much. It's hardly like you will drop your indoctrination long enough to consider someone elses viewpoint anyways.

benedictaoo said:
That's your answer when pressed. No one understands you.

NO that he reads the bible and what he concludes rules.

yes. And in my bible, there is a footnote. It says don't listen to people who misrepresent you.

I think I'll pay attention to that footnote.

Montalban said:
I'm not the one calling others names.

neither am I. I'm calling you dishonest, not a name.

If someone were squawking like a parrot, yes, but you've not shown that this is so, in light of the fact Jesus asked us to pray. And, he gave us a particular prayer to pray

I don't agree with that assessment.

You refuted yourself

whatever you say, bud.

I apologise if you feel frustrated.

yes.... I'm quite convinced that you do. I'm sure you are as sincere as spring sunshine!

You have mutually conflicting points. You can both say that it doesn't matter as long as you profess faith in Jesus, and then say it does matter what you do.

you can't even identify to "what matters." you're saying that I think it matters/doesn't matter, but you aren't making any sense. matters to what?

Montalban said:
See above where you talk about parrots! You refute yourself within one post.

Then you're refuting yourself again. You've been arguing in absolute terms 'squawking like a parrot would be meaningless'. Now you just say 'meaningless', but 'for you'. You need to make up your mind which argument you wish to have.

Click to expand...

that is what I have been saying right from the start. that it is ME that would be squawking. You have conveniently ignored this fact so you continue down this dishonest path to win the argument. Here, I'll toss you a bone. You're right. Now go stroke your ego elsewhere.

So you never say "I love you". You never buy her a card with someone else's words on it. You've never read her poetry?

So if I were to read Shakespeare, and follow that script it has less meaning than if I just make up something on the spot, right there on stage?

Click to expand...

NO! you don't pay attention, do you? If I did that, great. And then next week, read the same damn poem. and then again. and again. and again. I think my wife would get the hint that I wasn't trying very hard.

Then that's the end of your argument. You've stated what's important to you, you can't continue arguing against everyone else wanting to pray from prayer books.

Click to expand...

I'm NOT, you master of the oblivious! My word, you don't pay attention. I never argued that it was wrong for others! I find no value in it. I've said repeatedly, if you can get closer to God doing it, GOOD FOR YOU.

No you have not. You just said you relied on something else. And even that is illogical to suggest that you rely on something other than Scripture to say you should rely ONLY on Scripture.

Can you not see the conflict in that?

Click to expand...

yes, I have. I stated that I use only scripture, because only scripture is proven trustworthy. It is inspired of God (surely you don't dispute that fact.)

The DIFFERENCE between you and I, is you have faith in people to get everything right for 2000 years. I do not. I believe men err, screw things up, lie, omit, and miss the point.

is it clear enough now? I cannot make it clearer for you. If you can't get what I'm saying at this point, I give up, and suggest hooked on phonics.

Montalban said:

Here he can't make up his mind what argument he wants.

Click to expand...

lie.

He both argues that there's an absolute 'authentic worship' (and that we don't follow this), but then argues relative truths about what is meaningful for him.

Click to expand...

lie.

Montalban · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
no, not nobody understands me, just that they don't comprehend what I'm saying.

They understand you, they just don't comprehend you!

enough said!

sunlover1 · Mar 24, 2008

Rick Otto said:
The same place they made icons.
You are desperately stretching , Monty.
Something can be in the bible, like rape is therefore "biblical", but that doesn't make it an approved practice.
Verses having "something to do with tithing" do not establish & approve that Levitical law as a NT norm.

The slavery Paul addressed was voluntary or financialy caused, not racist imperialism. Slavery then & there was not what we think of as slavery here at the end of the 21st century.

The Bible doesn't even contain all of scripture, & yet IT is profitable for doctrine, IT is profitable for reproof, correction, & for instruction in righteousness . Nothing essential was left out.

It is spelled out quite explicitly in the illustrated example of the Bereans verifying apostolic verity by examining the prophecies and truths of the OT scriptures they had.
The example isn't about "only following the bible", which is a phrase that attempts to over-broaden the intent of relying only on the scriptures for authoritative moral, spiritual truths that either affirm or reprove & correct messages we get from men & traditions. That phrase makes it sound like we don't wipe our butts because nobody in the bible does.

I AM my own "Pope". EVERYONE is "their own Pope", if they have a functioning ego & conscience.
EVERYONE decides for themselves what & who to believe. That is how we are individualy responsible for ourselves. Even if we declare we believe whatever "The Church" teaches, it is our own conscious decision to do so.There is no escape, nor should their be, from "being our own Pope".
In my Papcy tho, I lose the props & costumes, fancy titles, burdensome beaurocracy, delusions of infallibility, etc... and just try & stay with truths, the larger as well as the immediate & practical.

Rick Otto said:
Hey U-Be, your words are fat. (derisive: "ha,ha")
I think you nailed him on bein' picayune, bruh.
I see this affection for structure, ceremony, etc. and I hear it's out of affection for the Lord, but there's a sense of one's salvation, instead of simply one's justification, being at stake. There's more of a compulsive edge of duty against inertia of the flesh rather than the enthusiasm of gratitude - my opinion.
When in fact, if you're one who loves the Lord, it's a relief to remember;
Ro 8:30 - Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

But re: religion,...
Lu 16:15 - And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

People having problems with what people ask is about there being a problem with the premise upon which the questions rest.

Montalban said:
That's your answer when pressed. No one understands you.

How bout rick, did you understand him?
I didnt see anyone answering to this,
but then again the threads are goofy !

Montalban · Mar 24, 2008

< snip >

I am still interested in dialogue. I had hoped to point out where you contradict yourself. You don't accept this and believe everyone doesn't understand you/comprehend you.

Your statements don't make sense. You have argued against traditions here, and then say it doesn't matter, on your own personal basis - what's good for you.

With regards prayer you either believe things are relatively true, or absolutely true. Your argument switches so quickly it makes no sense.

Philothei · Mar 24, 2008

GOOD FOR YOU.

if that was the point of the thread then why argue?

and what was that all about us... the ones with the prayer book .... being sinning???

LOL.... you really make no sense.....You either think you are right or you do not...

which way would it go???
Are we going to hell for praying with prayer books or it is okay?

Maybe Christ repeating the same prayer over at Gethsemane was wrong doing that too?

God could turn around and telll him....Sorry I want "creativity".....

I am in tears laughing sorry can not help it.............................................lol...............

Also if your wife thinks telling her that you love her is .... "boring" and too repetitious... well... that is ...different (??) no comment .

Philothei · Mar 24, 2008

Uphill Battle said:
my word, but you're a prick.

hit the report button now.

That was not nice....

Uphill Battle · Mar 24, 2008

Montalban said:
I have no wish to report you.

I am still interested in dialogue. I had hoped to point out where you contradict yourself. You don't accept this and believe everyone doesn't understand you/comprehend you.

Your statements don't make sense. You have argued against traditions here, and then say it doesn't matter, on your own personal basis - what's good for you.

With regards prayer you either believe things are relatively true, or absolutely true. Your argument switches so quickly it makes no sense.

I'm not all that interested in carrying on dialogue that someone uses dishonesty to further their goals.

you'll hate this thread, I guarantee it. (2)

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Deal with it.

Love never fails

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Beloved, Let us love one another

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