you will be judged even if decieved

[createdtoworship]

My point is that according to cs lewis all. parts of the " the law of nature" are known to people as young as 12 maybe younger

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why are you here if you dont want to believe christian ideas? Sincerely? And i mean ANY part of a christian forum. Not just christian only sections.

Have you watched the visitors daily ? (there's MORE BOTS than humans!!!)

And of the humans, only a few care about "christian ideas".

It is not set up for just people interested in "christian ideas", no, not at all.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

are known to people as young as 12 maybe younger

Yes.
Y'SHUA says that even younger ones are blessed by the FATHER YHWH WHO
gives them,
outright,
freely,
revelation about SALVATION and everything related to SALVATION in this life and in the life to come.
Because
it IS HIS GOOD PLEASURE TO DO SO.
(and HE HIDES IT ALL FROM so-called "scholars" and religious professionals)

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

We are no longer in a missionary era, and that is unfortunate.

what are your thoughts.

It is a GREAT BLESSING OF YHWH TO BE LIVING TODAY !
It is the TIME HE HAS GIVEN US.

 

[createdtoworship]

Perhaps God is ending his missionary outreach and we are entering the "famine of the word" period. The times are certainly ripe for this.

Perhaps. Every rejection of christ is a form of darkness. A rejection what is good and a replacement of what is dark. " men loved darkness rather than light....because their deeds would be exposed." - bible

 

[jayem]

PS. Incidentally, there are believers who think that atheists, who do not consider they will ever be held existentially accountable for their thoughts, words and deeds, have no solid reason to be moral, only to do what ever is expediently to their advantage. That includes wilfully disbelieving, and fostering wilful disbelief, so that they may pursue their own advantage without moral hindrance.

I am certainly aware of that. I'm speaking for myself now, but I see it quite the opposite. While I don't believe in any afterlife, I do believe that the chickens often come home to roost. If you treat people like dirt, there is a high likelihood that you will be treated the same. Since this is the only life I'll ever have, I want it to be as pleasant and pain-free as possible. And that's much less likely to happen if I cause pain to others. This is a corollary of the principle of reciprocity. And it's just common sense.

It's always seemed to me that something is lacking in one's psychological makeup if the threat of supernatural moral reckoning is needed to promote decent, civilized behavior. And BTW, does it even work? I'll let Bertrand Russell answer that:

 

[createdtoworship]

I am certainly aware of that. I'm speaking for myself now, but I see it quite the opposite. While I don't believe in any afterlife, I do believe that the chickens often come home to roost. If you treat people like dirt, there is a high likelihood that you will be treated the same. Since this is the only life I'll ever have, I want it to be as pleasant and pain-free as possible. And that's much less likely to happen if I cause pain to others. This is a corollary of the principle of reciprocity. And it's just common sense.

It's always seemed to me that something is lacking in one's psychological makeup if the threat of supernatural moral reckoning is needed to promote decent, civilized behavior. And BTW, does it even work? I'll let Bertrand Russell answer that:

you know there is such a thing as a photo resizer, you can upload it to photo bucket and do all sorts of free edits. No need for an abnormus signature, even if you wish to make an unvalidated point with it.

 

[jayem]

Why are you here if you dont want to believe christian ideas? Sincerely? And i mean ANY part of a christian forum. Not just christian only sections.

This is a discussion/debate forum that is open to anyone. I enjoy a good debate on ethical issues. It's a challenge to the intellect. That's what you will get when you post here. Do you have a problem with that?

 

[createdtoworship]

It is a GREAT BLESSING OF YHWH TO BE LIVING TODAY !
It is the TIME HE HAS GIVEN US.

I agree, I am going through the gospel of mathew verse by verse by my favorite pastor jon courson. I am also going to get an audible copy of the amplified bible. To listen to when I work, and do chores. To be a light in the world it's important we turn up the heat on our elements. Without the arcing affect of electricity and the heat, there would be no lumination. Dark is not a thing. Evil is not a thing. They are lack of good and lack of light. We need not fear evil. When you turn up the heat on the elements of light, darkness flees with it's tail between it's legs. If you have a head lamp on, there is not a shadow that you can see as you turn your head. The dark hides underneath, the pit it came from. I used to picture the sun, as a hole in the sky with heaven and God's throne on the other side. But thats not a perfect picture. God's presence is a burning fire, not just physically, but spiritually....in fact spiritual beings, such as angels need to have protective coverings to exist in the throne room of God any extended period of time. Imagine that energy that created all things in 7 days. Directing his energy at destroying and tormenting a soul for eternity. See it only took a week to create all life. But he will take an eternity to destroy it, because it will be a slow miserable existence. Not just physical, but spiritual beings will be bound there as well. demons will be bound there, in just as much torment as anyone else. Lazerus and the rich man said...after seeing hell, warn my family and friends. Tell them the Gospel so that they may have grace. And I would ask the wicked one in that parable, how is His rejection of God and religion working out for him?

Well?

Also why do you feel inclined to tell us to warn your loved ones?

 

[createdtoworship]

This is a discussion/debate forum that is open to anyone. I enjoy a good debate on ethical issues. It's a challenge to the intellect. That's what you will get when you post here. Do you have a problem with that?

sir, please....if I may ask.

if you don't like christian ideas, and if you are not here to recruit.

why ARE you here?

(think about it, and get back to me....message me if you wish)

 

[daughterofthemosthigh7]

My thoughts God makes a way for everybody to know Him and who He is and then have opportunity to choose whether 4 or against used to I thought pygmies in huts in jungles in africa no until I heard sermon by Charles Stanley on this subject and he convinced me otherwise and now agree but do believe deceived like even those who claim to be Christians but base faith on works not grace plus include idolatry necromancy and all other sorts of occultic practices being deceived in other words sounds harsh but yes will be judged is apostate false manmade religion and will get same as any other lost person say an atheist or buddhist some things are not for me to get or understand because I'm not God for one like why good person goes to hell with evil ppl but being good is not enough Jesus is only way to Father that's it one of 2 choices we have and glad I made right one!

 

[OldWiseGuy]

I am certainly aware of that. I'm speaking for myself now, but I see it quite the opposite. While I don't believe in any afterlife, I do believe that the chickens often come home to roost. If you treat people like dirt, there is a high likelihood that you will be treated the same. Since this is the only life I'll ever have, I want it to be as pleasant and pain-free as possible. And that's much less likely to happen if I cause pain to others. This is a corollary of the principle of reciprocity. And it's just common sense.

It's always seemed to me that something is lacking in one's psychological makeup if the threat of supernatural moral reckoning is needed to promote decent, civilized behavior. And BTW, does it even work? I'll let Bertrand Russell answer that:

Neither you or Mr. Russell have been exposed to the virtue of Christianity as most of those who would demonstrate it have "come out of her" and don't interact directly with you guys.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Perhaps. Every rejection of christ is a form of darkness. A rejection what is good and a replacement of what is dark. " men loved darkness rather than light....because their deeds would be exposed." - bible

I believe God is removing his protection from the nations where his people dwell, and we are seeing the beginning of "Jacob's Trouble", which will culminate in the Tribulation.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is a discussion/debate forum that is open to anyone. I enjoy a good debate on ethical issues. It's a challenge to the intellect. That's what you will get when you post here. Do you have a problem with that?

The debates here often pit the complex against the simple, so much of the time the parties are talking past each other, and the debates devolve into "doubtful disputations".

 

[jayem]

sir, please....if I may ask.

if you don't like christian ideas, and if you are not here to recruit.

why ARE you here?

(think about it, and get back to me....message me if you wish)

Like I said, I'm here because I enjoy intellectual discourse. It's good brain exercise to express one's opinions, to have them challenged, and to defend them with logic and reason. That's what a debate forum is all about. I do the same on non-religious sites, like Secular Cafe, and Rational Skepticism, too. You began this thread in a forum open to non-believers. If you don't want your opinions challenged, then as I stated, you should post in a Christians-only venue.

And for the record, I don't dislike Christian ideas, per se. I dislike supernatural ideas of any kind, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, New Age, or whatever.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Like I said, I'm here because I enjoy intellectual discourse. It's good brain exercise to express one's opinions, to have them challenged, and to defend them with logic and reason. That's what a debate forum is all about. I do the same on non-religious sites, like Secular Cafe, and Rational Skepticism, too. You began this thread in a forum open to non-believers. If you don't want your opinions challenged, then as I stated, you should post in a Christians-only venue.

And for the record, I don't dislike Christian ideas, per se. I dislike supernatural ideas of any kind, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, New Age, or whatever.

Interesting. I feel the same about naturalistic views (the whole universe is supernatural, especially life on earth). That it has stability because of the laws that govern it notwithstanding.

 

[createdtoworship]

My thoughts God makes a way for everybody to know Him and who He is and then have opportunity to choose whether 4 or against used to I thought pygmies in huts in jungles in africa no until I heard sermon by Charles Stanley on this subject and he convinced me otherwise and now agree but do believe deceived like even those who claim to be Christians but base faith on works not grace plus include idolatry necromancy and all other sorts of occultic practices being deceived in other words sounds harsh but yes will be judged is apostate false manmade religion and will get same as any other lost person say an atheist or buddhist some things are not for me to get or understand because I'm not God for one like why good person goes to hell with evil ppl but being good is not enough Jesus is only way to Father that's it one of 2 choices we have and glad I made right one!

I have searched far and wide but a google search for cs lewis's "law of nature", or "natural law" will perhaps explain more that this quote, which is in reality, a quote of a quote.

"Ethics. The moral human creature is obligated to live by an absolute moral law that transcends human law. Such was what the framers of the Declaration of Independence had in mind when they wrote of the “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God” and of “certain unalienable rights” with which all are “endowed by their Creator.” As moral creatures, created in God’s image, we have certain absolute obligations toward others.

This objective moral law is prescriptive, not descriptive. It lays down the principles by which we ought to live; it does not merely express the way we do live. It is not social convention, for it sometimes condemns society. Neither is it herd instinct, for we sometimes act out of a sense of duty against our instinct for self-preservation (Mere Christianity, 22). We can progress in our understanding, but the moral law itself does not change (Abolition of Man, 58, 59)."

Ethics, quote from the "encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics by Norman Geisler"

in opposition to the law of nature or moral law from the universe....we have pluralism:

"
. Pluralists generally deny that there is any universally binding moral law. If there were such absolute moral laws there would need to be an absolute Moral Law Giver. But only theistic type religions accept this criteria, and some of them reject the absolute perfect nature of God (for example, Finite Godists). If there is a moral law common to all religions, then it is not unique to one, and no religion can be judged inferior for lacking it.

Finally, if there are no such universal moral laws, then there is no way to judge morally all religions from any standard beyond them. And it is not fair to take the standards of one religion and apply them to another, claiming that the other falls short."

citation of quote: ibid.

 

[createdtoworship]

Like I said, I'm here because I enjoy intellectual discourse. It's good brain exercise to express one's opinions, to have them challenged, and to defend them with logic and reason. That's what a debate forum is all about. I do the same on non-religious sites, like Secular Cafe, and Rational Skepticism, too. You began this thread in a forum open to non-believers. If you don't want your opinions challenged, then as I stated, you should post in a Christians-only venue.

And for the record, I don't dislike Christian ideas, per se. I dislike supernatural ideas of any kind, whether they be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Pagan, New Age, or whatever.

very good, thanks.

then if you are open to debate, the very next step is being open to change.

because when we are proven wrong many times, we build walls up in the fortress of our mind, blocking anyone from coming close. But in debate, everything is on the table. If for example your livelihood were on debate, say for example you were an evolutionary biologist and I proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt evolution to be false. Honest debate, means you would quite your job, take up three other jobs, get more school grants, go back to school and get a different degree. And live your life with a changed mind that affected your life.

but to say no, I am wrong regarding evolution. Because you don't want to get a new job....is not right.

and this is not really honest.

... is it?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

very good, thanks.

then if you are open to debate, the very next step is being open to change.

because when we are proven wrong many times, we build walls up in the fortress of our mind, blocking anyone from coming close. But in debate, everything is on the table. If for example your livelihood were on debate, say for example you were an evolutionary biologist and I proved to you beyond a shadow of a doubt evolution to be false. Honest debate, means you would quite your job, take up three other jobs, get more school grants, go back to school and get a different degree. And live your life with a changed mind that affected your life.

but to say no, I am wrong regarding evolution. Because you don't want to get a new job....is not right.

and this is not really honest.

... is it?

Personally, I find theists to be the ones not open to change, which always makes me question why they post in forums open to everyone, instead of sticking to Christian-only forums where their basic beliefs aren't challenged.

And an honest theist would also abandon their beliefs if they come to the conclusion that they believe for bad reasons, right?

 

[com7fy8]

I don't believe for logical reasons . . . by the way.

About justice > I think of how we all will reap what we sow > Galatians 6:7-8. When you reap something, you get so much more than the little seeds you sowed. You can get a harvest of food, or a field of thorns. So, you could say it's not fair, either way. So-o-o . . . take advantage of how things work while we do what is good.

I experience that God is superior to me; so if I do things with God, I get more and better than what I would get with my own effort. And when I do what is selfish, I can get hurt and into more of a mess than my selfish activity might deserve.