"You try working with him...

[ralliann]

There are all sorts of people discussing how they'd steal papers off his desk so he wouldn't do something stupid, and he'd have forgotten about it the next day. So it's not at all unlikely that this drug culture was going on without his knowledge, Some psychologists have noted that some pretty capable grifters were not very smart, and while they have great social skills and speak convincingly, they aren't very good at reasoning. Trump fits pretty well.

There are all kinds of people that lie too.

 

[The Barbarian]

There are all kinds of people that lie too.

Comes down to credibility. Trump is a compulsive liar. He lies even when there's no logical reason to lie. But lots of people in Trump's WH have disparaged his intelligence:

In one example, Woodward wrote that then-economic adviser Gary Cohn “stole a letter off Trump’s desk” that the president planned to sign pulling the United States from a trade agreement with key ally South Korea.

Cohn later told a colleague that he removed the letter to protect national security and that Trump didn’t even notice that it went missing.

Cohn repeated his chicanery to stop Trump from withdrawing from the North American Free Trade Agreement, which he had vilified on the campaign trail.

In spring 2017, Trump harangued then-White House secretary Rob Porter over the issue.

“Why aren’t we getting this done? Do your job. I want to do this,” the commander in chief said.

Porter dutifully drafted a letter withdrawing from NAFTA, but he and other advisers feared it could trigger an economic and foreign-relations disaster, so Porter consulted Cohn.

“I can stop this,” Cohn replied. “I’ll just take the paper off his desk.”

Aides took orders off Trump’s desk to stop him from signing them: Woodward

President Trump’s top aides were so worried about his plans to scrap two major trade deals that they swiped the orders off his desk — and he didn’t even notice, according to a new book on the White…

nypost.com

President Donald Trump has hurled numerous insults at Democrats, the news media and even those in his own party.
But the president has also been on the receiving end, including from people who work in his administration.
“Fear: Trump in the White House,” by Bob Woodward, is the latest book to detail chaos in the president’s immediate orbit. Excerpts were published Tuesday and immediately brought to mind several disparaging comments that Trump’s staff is reported to have made about the commander in chief:

• Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader,” according to accounts of Woodward’s book that were published by The Washington Post. The comments came after a National Security Council meeting on Jan. 19 in which Trump questioned why the government was using resources to maintain a U.S. military presence on the Korean Peninsula. Mattis told Trump that presence was necessary “in order to prevent World War III.”
• White House chief of staff John Kelly called Trump “an idiot” and said he thought the president was “unhinged,” The Post also reported. NBC News first reported in May that Kelly had referred to the president as an idiot multiple times, in addition to making several remarks “insulting the president’s intelligence and casting himself as the savior of the country.” Kelly has denied that he ever called Trump an idiot.

• Omarosa Manigault Newman, who was the highest-ranking African-American staffer in the West Wing, claimed in a book published earlier this summer that Trump is a “racist, misogynist and bigot.” In her book, “Unhinged,” Manigault Newman said she witnessed Trump use racial epithets while describing presidential counselor Kellyanne Conway’s husband, George Conway, who is half Filipino.
• Earlier this year, Michael Wolff detailed in his book “Fire and Fury” that a number of individuals in the Trump administration insulted the president’s intelligence. Both Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and former chief of staff Reince Priebus called Trump an “idiot,” Wolff wrote. Former economic adviser Gary Cohn said Trump was “dumb as [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse],” and former national security adviser H.R. McMaster said the president was a “dope,” according to the book.
• Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon said in November 2017 that Trump was “like an 11-year-old child,” according to Vanity Fair. He also said that Trump had “lost his step.” Bannon had left the White House in August 2017.
• Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson in July 2017 called Trump a “moron,” NBC News reported. The comments came after Tillerson had a meeting at the Pentagon with members of the White House national security team and Cabinet officials.
• At a dinner in July 2017, McMaster mocked Trump, also calling him an “idiot,” BuzzFeed News reported. At the dinner, which was with Oracle CEO Safra Catz, McMaster also said Trump was a “dope” with the intelligence of a “kindergartner,” according to that report.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/04/trumps-insults-idiot-woodward-806455

And I don't think "They are lying, all of them!" is an adequate rebuttal. George W. Bush himself admitted that he wasn't the brightest president ever, but we didn't see this kind of contempt expressed by the people who worked for him in the WH.

 

[ralliann]

Comes down to credibility. Trump is a compulsive liar. He lies even when there's no logical reason to lie. But lots of people in Trump's WH have disparaged his intelligence:

In one example, Woodward wrote that then-economic adviser Gary Cohn “stole a letter off Trump’s desk” that the president planned to sign pulling the United States from a trade agreement with key ally South Korea.

Cohn later told a colleague that he removed the letter to protect national security and that Trump didn’t even notice that it went missing.

Cohn repeated his chicanery to stop Trump from withdrawing from the North American Free Trade Agreement, which he had vilified on the campaign trail.

In spring 2017, Trump harangued then-White House secretary Rob Porter over the issue.

“Why aren’t we getting this done? Do your job. I want to do this,” the commander in chief said.

Porter dutifully drafted a letter withdrawing from NAFTA, but he and other advisers feared it could trigger an economic and foreign-relations disaster, so Porter consulted Cohn.

“I can stop this,” Cohn replied. “I’ll just take the paper off his desk.”

Aides took orders off Trump’s desk to stop him from signing them: Woodward

President Trump’s top aides were so worried about his plans to scrap two major trade deals that they swiped the orders off his desk — and he didn’t even notice, according to a new book on the White…

nypost.com

President Donald Trump has hurled numerous insults at Democrats, the news media and even those in his own party.
But the president has also been on the receiving end, including from people who work in his administration.
“Fear: Trump in the White House,” by Bob Woodward, is the latest book to detail chaos in the president’s immediate orbit. Excerpts were published Tuesday and immediately brought to mind several disparaging comments that Trump’s staff is reported to have made about the commander in chief:

• Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader,” according to accounts of Woodward’s book that were published by The Washington Post. The comments came after a National Security Council meeting on Jan. 19 in which Trump questioned why the government was using resources to maintain a U.S. military presence on the Korean Peninsula. Mattis told Trump that presence was necessary “in order to prevent World War III.”
• White House chief of staff John Kelly called Trump “an idiot” and said he thought the president was “unhinged,” The Post also reported. NBC News first reported in May that Kelly had referred to the president as an idiot multiple times, in addition to making several remarks “insulting the president’s intelligence and casting himself as the savior of the country.” Kelly has denied that he ever called Trump an idiot.

• Omarosa Manigault Newman, who was the highest-ranking African-American staffer in the West Wing, claimed in a book published earlier this summer that Trump is a “racist, misogynist and bigot.” In her book, “Unhinged,” Manigault Newman said she witnessed Trump use racial epithets while describing presidential counselor Kellyanne Conway’s husband, George Conway, who is half Filipino.
• Earlier this year, Michael Wolff detailed in his book “Fire and Fury” that a number of individuals in the Trump administration insulted the president’s intelligence. Both Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and former chief of staff Reince Priebus called Trump an “idiot,” Wolff wrote. Former economic adviser Gary Cohn said Trump was “dumb as [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse],” and former national security adviser H.R. McMaster said the president was a “dope,” according to the book.
• Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon said in November 2017 that Trump was “like an 11-year-old child,” according to Vanity Fair. He also said that Trump had “lost his step.” Bannon had left the White House in August 2017.
• Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson in July 2017 called Trump a “moron,” NBC News reported. The comments came after Tillerson had a meeting at the Pentagon with members of the White House national security team and Cabinet officials.
• At a dinner in July 2017, McMaster mocked Trump, also calling him an “idiot,” BuzzFeed News reported. At the dinner, which was with Oracle CEO Safra Catz, McMaster also said Trump was a “dope” with the intelligence of a “kindergartner,” according to that report.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/04/trumps-insults-idiot-woodward-806455

And I don't think "They are lying, all of them!" is an adequate rebuttal. George W. Bush himself admitted that he wasn't the brightest president ever, but we didn't see this kind of contempt expressed by the people who worked for him in the WH.

I didn't even read the above. Biden lied all through his career. Back in the 70's, he was a downright racist, and antisemite. He opened the border wide open, offering all kinds of services for them to live here, while he ignores Americans in need. Then when the primaries came all of a sudden, he realizes how serious the border situation is. Brings up a bill to spend more money, to process the flow, not stop it. Sure he wants to "process these people to have them able to vote. Smoke and mirrors. Not caring about anybody dying, being trafficked...Oh, and you were saying something about Trump? Sorry, tired of hearing petty complaints, in light of Biden's career.

 

[The Barbarian]

I didn't even read the above.

For reasons we probably all understand. It's a bad look for Trump that so many of his people have such a low opinion of his competence.

Biden lied all through his career.

Politicians lie. Trump is just an extreme case.

Back in the 70's, he was a downright racist, and antisemite.

Then it's kinda hard to see why Biden supported the Civil Rights Act and recently signed anti-lynching and hate crimes bills. You offered no support for your claim; we all know why.

He opened the border wide open,

In fact, more aliens were stopped at the border under Biden than under Trump. Would you like me to show you that? C'mon.

offering all kinds of services for them to live here,

In fact, he sent a bill to Congress to increase funding for the Border Patrol and to speed up deportation hearings. Trump ordered republicans in the House to stop that at all costs. And they did. Do you think no one noticed?

Brings up a bill to spend more money, to process the flow, not stop it.

You think the Border Patrol doesn't stop illegal immigrants? I think we've found your problem. And yes, more rapid deportation hearings means that those who are not legally entitled to asylum would be more quickly deported. Maybe you don't know this, but it doesn't seem that hard to understand.

Not caring about anybody dying, being trafficked

I would think catching more of those people at the border would help stop it. Why do you think it wouldn't? And of course, more timely deportation hearings would admit those who deserve it, and remove those who don't in a more timely manner. Why would that offend you?

Oh, and you were saying something about Trump?

Just noting how many of his people have a very low opinion of his mental competence. Not surprising, really, given some of his statements.

 

[Valletta]

Then it's kinda hard to see why Biden supported the Civil Rights Act and recently signed anti-lynching and hate crimes bills. You offered no support for your claim; we all know why.


In fact, more aliens were stopped at the border under Biden than under Trump. Would you like me to show you that? C'mon.


In fact, he sent a bill to Congress to increase funding for the Border Patrol and to speed up deportation hearings. Trump ordered republicans in the House to stop that at all costs. And they did. Do you think no one noticed?

Don't you really know about Joe Biden's past? About his standing with Robert Byrd to stop black children from being bused to white schools? It's not a secret, it's part of the historical record. For starters here's what NBC, a supporter of Joe, admitted:

But political experts and education policy researchers say Biden, a supporter of civil rights in other arenas, did not simply compromise with segregationists — he also led the charge on an issue that kept black students away from the classrooms of white students. His legislative work against school integration advanced a more palatable version of the “separate but equal” doctrine and undermined the nation’s short-lived effort at educational equality, legislative and education history experts say.
Joe Biden didn’t just compromise with segregationists. He fought for their cause in schools, experts say.

As to the border, Joe has let in over 10 million people! And Joe has lost track of over 85,000 children! Maybe most are only used as slave labor instead of being sex trafficked, but Joe needs to take responsibility. What has he done to find them? And what about taking responsibility for those who have died because of the criminals he has allowed to enter our country?

 

[Ana the Ist]

And not chasing pills and alcohol."

Trump White House Was Awash in Drugs Because No One Wanted to Be There

i recall reading a report that listed the drugs being dispenses for the white house a few months ago and this story just adds to it all.



As a slight sidebar...do people bring in their own staffers or would the white house generally have mostly their own people? I'd assume mostly the latter

Thoughts on this?

It's not news, it's propaganda. They've basically admitted to extreme left wing bias on their "About" page....which I decided to check out because I never heard of them. One might wonder what they were founded as in 1914? A communist pub? An advertising company? Insurance sales?

The New Republic was founded in 1914 to bring liberalism into the modern era. The founders understood that the challenges facing a nation transformed by the Industrial Revolution and mass immigration required bold new thinking.
Today’s New Republic is wrestling with the same fundamental questions: how to build a more inclusive and democratic civil society, and how to fight for a fairer political economy in an age of rampaging inequality. We also face challenges that belong entirely to this age, from the climate crisis to Republicans hell-bent on subverting democratic governance.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I didn't see any sources named...called it before I read it....straight up pathetically transparent propaganda.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I also love the quote...

"You try working with Trump without drugs and alcohol." ....one source said.

Does anyone think this source worked with Trump? Was it some guy The New Republic bumped into walking down the street? Is it the guy sitting next to the guy who typed this out?

This is hilarious.

 

[Ana the Ist]

And not chasing pills and alcohol."

Trump White House Was Awash in Drugs Because No One Wanted to Be There

i recall reading a report that listed the drugs being dispenses for the white house a few months ago and this story just adds to it all.



As a slight sidebar...do people bring in their own staffers or would the white house generally have mostly their own people? I'd assume mostly the latter

Thoughts on this?

When you think of "White House staffers" think of a mix of...

1. Legitimate employees, doing actual work, which requires some skill or knowledge and are hired.
2. Family friends and family friends of people who funded the campaign of whomever....they might perform some legitimate work.
3. Volunteers from college programs for resume building. This is a rather duplicitous manner of getting free workers to do something for you, and they typically pay for this opportunity....in money I mean, not mental health.

As far as work goes....it can be something as important and probably has decent pay like "being on Biden's speech writing team" or as banal and basic as "answering phone calls, making appointments, picking up laundry" or it might be really important, like interrupting the chain of custody of classified documents that you packed into a box and illegally moved into Biden's home.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I'd be surprised if no democrat did. (Barbarian checks)

Freshman Congressman Trey Radel (R-Florida) became the first sitting U.S. representative to be convicted for a cocaine offense this week. The 37-year-old Radel pleaded guilty to misdemeanor possession charges, following from his attempt to score about 3.5 grams of coke for $250 from an undercover cop in late October. (Radel had recently voted with Republican colleagues to drug-test food stamp recipients – an irony not lost on minority leader Nancy Pelosi, who remarked, “It’s like, what!?“) Radel, blamed his “extremely irresponsible choice” on “the disease of alcoholism.” The first-time offender was sentenced to one year of probation.

President Barack Obama
While more famous for his youthful marijuana exploits as a member of the “Choom Gang,” the president in his memoir Dreams from My Father obliquely admitted that he had a taste for coke too. The president writes about his drug use in the context of self-medicating to deal with the pain of an absent father: “Pot had helped, and booze; maybe a little blow when you could afford it.”

Former New York Governor David Paterson
The man who took over the governor’s mansion from Eliot Spitzer following a prostitution scandal began his administration by frankly discussing with a TV interviewer his tame-by-comparison experience with cocaine: “You used cocaine, governor?” asked the reporter. Paterson’s reply: “I’d say I was 22 or 23, I tried it a couple of times, yes.”

Former President George W. Bush
Allegations of youthful cocaine use dogged Bush throughout his political career. He always stopped short of definitively denying his use, preferring dodges like: “When I was young and irresponsible, I was young and irresponsible.”

Former Vice Presidential Candidate Sarah Palin
In a salacious biography published by Joe McGinniss, a friend of Palin’s recalls a snowmachine trip with her prior to her election as governor of Alaska, in which the party turned over a 55 gallon oil drum and “we were all doing cocaine lines off the top of the drum.”

Former Rep. Ron Dellums
Radel isn’t the first House member to be linked to cocaine use. According to Congressional ethics documents, Dellums, a California Democrat, was investigated in the early 1980s for possible cocaine use. An assistant manager of the House Democratic cloakroom testified to a grand jury that he’d sold coke to Dellums. Dellums “expressly denied” the charges. A Justice Department investigation later determined that “there is insufficient admissible, credible evidence to support criminal charges against Representative Dellums.”

Former Rep. Charlie Wilson
Wilson, a Republican from Texas, was alleged to have used cocaine on three occasions in 1980, once in Las Vegas and twice in the Caymans. Noting “jurisdictional problems,” the Department of Justice also concluded that there was “insufficient admissible, credible evidence” to charge Wilson.

Former D.C. Mayor Marion Barry
The D.C. mayor is the only politician on this list to serve time for a cocaine offense. In a 1990 sting operation, Barry was lured to a room at the Vista International Hotel by a former girlfriend working for the FBI, and videotaped smoking crack. Not unlike Radel, Barry was found guilty of a single count of misdemeanor possession charge. Unlike Radel, Barry was sentenced to six months in federal prison.

Blow by Blow: 10 Politicians Linked to Cocaine

Congressman Trey Radel isn't the first politician to make headlines from white lines

www.rollingstone.com

I don't entirely buy the "young and stupid" excuse, but Bush and Obama at least stayed clean as adults.

I don't think either of them stayed clean as adults.

Easily my favorite there is Marion Barry. Busted while in office. Convicted. Then wins reelection. If that's not the quintessential US politician, I don't know what is. He wasn't even being targeted of I recall correctly, he just happened to be in the trap house when it was raided...smoking rock.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Comes down to credibility. Trump is a compulsive liar. He lies even when there's no logical reason to lie. But lots of people in Trump's WH have disparaged his intelligence:

In one example, Woodward wrote that then-economic adviser Gary Cohn “stole a letter off Trump’s desk” that the president planned to sign pulling the United States from a trade agreement with key ally South Korea.

Cohn later told a colleague that he removed the letter to protect national security and that Trump didn’t even notice that it went missing.

Cohn repeated his chicanery to stop Trump from withdrawing from the North American Free Trade Agreement, which he had vilified on the campaign trail.

In spring 2017, Trump harangued then-White House secretary Rob Porter over the issue.

“Why aren’t we getting this done? Do your job. I want to do this,” the commander in chief said.

Porter dutifully drafted a letter withdrawing from NAFTA, but he and other advisers feared it could trigger an economic and foreign-relations disaster, so Porter consulted Cohn.

“I can stop this,” Cohn replied. “I’ll just take the paper off his desk.”

Wow. One has to wonder how much criticism of his behavior and policy is legitimate. We're almost in the opposite situation....Biden's clearly not making decisions, he's just rubber stamping other people's ideas.

White House staffers preventing Trump from doing his job gave better results than Biden Staffers implementing their own ideas without resistance.

Was Cohn ever charged for that crime? Obstruction of official duties?

Aides took orders off Trump’s desk to stop him from signing them: Woodward

President Trump’s top aides were so worried about his plans to scrap two major trade deals that they swiped the orders off his desk — and he didn’t even notice, according to a new book on the White…

nypost.com

President Donald Trump has hurled numerous insults at Democrats, the news media and even those in his own party.
But the president has also been on the receiving end, including from people who work in his administration.
“Fear: Trump in the White House,” by Bob Woodward, is the latest book to detail chaos in the president’s immediate orbit. Excerpts were published Tuesday and immediately brought to mind several disparaging comments that Trump’s staff is reported to have made about the commander in chief:

• Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said Trump had the understanding of “a fifth- or sixth-grader,” according to accounts of Woodward’s book that were published by The Washington Post. The comments came after a National Security Council meeting on Jan. 19 in which Trump questioned why the government was using resources to maintain a U.S. military presence on the Korean Peninsula.

Wait...they were upset they had to explain something to him?

Mattis told Trump that presence was necessary “in order to prevent World War III.”

That's a bit dramatic but clearly in line with current administration thinking...I can't count how many times the Ukraine was called necessary to prevent WW3.

After all, nothing prevents the globalization of a regional conflict like the intervention of international governments from far away lol.

It appears this is how they want to sell the public on the billions spent playing with their new drones and intervening on both sides of Israel vs Palestine. Sure, we've got special forces clearing out those underground tunnels....but that's no reason to not air drop food and supplies to the Palestinians. You want them well fed when you kill them. Optics.

• White House chief of staff John Kelly called Trump “an idiot” and said he thought the president was “unhinged,” The Post also reported. NBC News first reported in May that Kelly had referred to the president as an idiot multiple times, in addition to making several remarks “insulting the president’s intelligence and casting himself as the savior of the country.” Kelly has denied that he ever called Trump an idiot.

Odd. John Kelly seems to have the exact necessary opinions to be of use to whomever is in office...or likely to be in office.

• Omarosa Manigault Newman, who was the highest-ranking African-American staffer in the West Wing, claimed in a book published earlier this summer that Trump is a “racist, misogynist and bigot.”

Those are strong words. He did hire a black woman to do her job....perhaps he intended for her to be a white man.

In her book, “Unhinged,” Manigault Newman said she witnessed Trump use racial epithets while describing presidential counselor Kellyanne Conway’s husband, George Conway, who is half Filipino.

What is a racial epithet for a Filipino?

Just curious if anyone knows...it's got nothing to do with my wife being half Filipina.

• Earlier this year, Michael Wolff detailed in his book “Fire and Fury”

Great title, it's got heat and emotion.

that a number of individuals in the Trump administration insulted the president’s intelligence.

Sure.

Both Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and former chief of staff Reince Priebus called Trump an “idiot,” Wolff wrote.

Sure. It's good to see Trump didn't just surround himself with "yes men".

Former economic adviser Gary Cohn said Trump was “dumb as [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse],” and former national security adviser H.R. McMaster said the president was a “dope,” according to the book.

Well one of those is really strong language and the other is pretty mild. I would wonder what they think of Biden's intelligence on economic and national security policy.

• Former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon said in November 2017 that Trump was “like an 11-year-old child,” according to Vanity Fair. He also said that Trump had “lost his step.” Bannon had left the White House in August 2017.

I don't know if Bannon was fired or if he quit but either way....job well done. Just because someone is a strong supporter doesn't mean they are qualified or even competent.

• Former Secretary of State Rex Tillerson in July 2017 called Trump a “moron,” NBC News reported. The comments came after Tillerson had a meeting at the Pentagon with members of the White House national security team and Cabinet officials.

This list is starting to look silly.

• At a dinner in July 2017, McMaster mocked Trump, also calling him an “idiot,” BuzzFeed News reported. At the dinner, which was with Oracle CEO Safra Catz, McMaster also said Trump was a “dope” with the intelligence of a “kindergartner,” according to that report.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/09/04/trumps-insults-idiot-woodward-806455

Calling BuzzFeed news....news....seems generous. How long did they last anyway? 4 years?

And I don't think "They are lying, all of them!" is an adequate rebuttal. George W. Bush himself admitted that he wasn't the brightest president ever, but we didn't see this kind of contempt expressed by the people who worked for him in the WH.

I saw a shoe thrown at him. If you don't think people who work for every president regularly call them disparaging names...well....

Then I guess this would look like news to you.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-representative-tlaib-accuses-biden-supporting-genocide-against-palestinians-2023-11-04/

The International Criminal Court defines the crime of genocide as the specific intent to destroy in whole, or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group by killing its members or by other means, including imposing measures intended to prevent births or forcibly transferring children from one group to another.

I gotta say...that definition is a bit overly broad and appears to apply to literally any war. Real wars of course...not the "war on crime" or "war on poverty" or "war on drugs" which are mere propaganda to convince the audience that these are so important in the minds of the administrations.

 

[The Barbarian]

Wow. One has to wonder how much criticism of his behavior and policy is legitimate.

A lot of the mess-ups seem to have been just by inattention. Trump's border fence fiasco, was mostly because no one was watching the contractors to see what they were doing.

White House staffers preventing Trump from doing his job gave better results than Biden Staffers implementing their own ideas without resistance.

Given that Biden was negotiating with McCarthy by himself, and clearly snockered the republicans in that negotiation (even they admitted it), seems like your belief doesn't correspond very well to the reality.

Was Cohn ever charged for that crime? Obstruction of official duties?

He took an oath to defend the Constitution. So he would easily be able to show that he was just following his oath.

Odd. John Kelly seems to have the exact necessary opinions to be of use to whomever is in office.

Since he reamed Trump for his failures while Trump was in office, I'd have to say you weren't thinking very clearly about this.

Those are strong words. He did hire a black woman to do her job....perhaps he intended for her to be a white man.

She was apparently insufficiently loyal to him personally. I have to wonder about a woman who has to be in the WH to realize that Trump hates other races and fears women.

This list is starting to look silly.

As McConnell observed, Tillerson didn't merely call Trump and idiot. Go look it up. He was more precise than that.

Calling BuzzFeed news....news....seems generous.

You've confused Politico with Buzzfeed. And I don't think "They are lying, all of them!" is an adequate defense.

George W. Bush himself admitted that he wasn't the brightest president ever, but we didn't see this kind of contempt expressed by the people who worked for him in the WH.

I saw a shoe thrown at him.

By an Iraqi. Did you honestly think it was by one of his employees? Seriously?

If you don't think people who work for every president regularly call them disparaging names...well....

Then I guess this would look like news to you.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-re...ing-genocide-against-palestinians-2023-11-04/

You actually think a US representative works for the president? I'm beginning to see why you're so confused. Maybe you should take a time out, and go learn about who actually works for a U.S. president, and then try to contribute to the discussion.

The International Criminal Court defines the crime of genocide as the specific intent to destroy in whole, or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group by killing its members or by other means, including imposing measures intended to prevent births or forcibly transferring children from one group to another.

I gotta say...that definition is a bit overly broad

That's what Putin is saying, now that he's a wanted man. He agrees that forcibly taking of children from their parents should not be a crime. But most people would disagree with you and Putin.

 

[The Barbarian]

Don't you really know about Joe Biden's past? About his standing with Robert Byrd to stop black children from being bused to white schools?

Biden supported the Civil Rights Act, but correctly predicted that forced busing would backfire and cause more racial strife. And events proved him to be correct.

How the left’s embrace of busing hurt the cause of integration. ​

How the Liberal Embrace of Busing Hurt the Cause of Integration

I.

slate.com

Don't they teach American history where you live? It's not a secret, it's part of the historical record.

The first buses rolled through Boston in September 1974—and racial violence engulfed the city. White mobs hurled bricks at school buses with terrified black children inside. Then, on October 7, a Haitian immigrant was beaten savagely by a white mob in South Boston. In the coming months, the list of casualties would grow. The city became a cauldron of racial hatred.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/04/joe-biden-integration-school-busing-120968/

As to the border, Joe has let in over 10 million people!

Actually, the border patrol is stretched to the limit, as are the deportation court hearings. Biden asked Congress for more money to beef up enforcement and removal of those who don't belong here. It almost passed until Donald Trump told his followers to vote it down. Trump wants open borders because he's running out of issues to scare the faithful.

 

[Ana the Ist]

A lot of the mess-ups seem to have been just by inattention. Trump's border fence fiasco, was mostly because no one was watching the contractors to see what they were doing.

I'm not certain what "fiasco" you're referring to here.

I know Trump managed to get a considerable amount of infrastructure built...despite the constant attempts to prevent this from Democratic Party members filing lawsuit after lawsuit and lying about the existence of a crisis until the pictures began circulating.....

But maybe you mean something more specific?

Given that Biden was negotiating with McCarthy by himself, and clearly snockered the republicans in that negotiation (even they admitted it), seems like your belief doesn't correspond very well to the reality.

What negotiation are you referring to?

I'd ask you to be more specific lol but since you can't really be any less specific....that should be obvious.

He took an oath to defend the Constitution. So he would easily be able to show that he was just following his oath.

What part of disobeying a presidential order over an issue the president holds authority in is considered "defending the Constitution"?

I haven't checked in awhile but I'm fairly certain NAFTA isn't in any amendments.

Since he reamed Trump for his failures while Trump was in office, I'd have to say you weren't thinking very clearly about this.

Oh? I recall something said about this when Trump left office but if you've got something from 2016-2020 please share.

She was apparently insufficiently loyal to him personally.

Or she was bought to keep those rumors of Trump's mastery of white supremacy circulating...hard to say.

I have to wonder about a woman who has to be in the WH to realize that Trump hates other races and fears women.

I'm sure you do lol.

As McConnell observed, Tillerson didn't merely call Trump and idiot. Go look it up. He was more precise than that.

Just quote Tillerson in 2016-2020. I looked and don't know what you're referring to.

You've confused Politico with Buzzfeed. And I don't think "They are lying, all of them!" is an adequate defense.

Buzzfeed News. It's a subsidiary of Buzzfeed I'm assuming...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/20/media/buzzfeed-news-shuts-down/index.html

Did they resurrect it or is it still dying?

George W. Bush himself admitted that he wasn't the brightest president ever, but we didn't see this kind of contempt expressed by the people who worked for him in the WH.

Right...as a 2 term president who can't run for reelection, why would you see any such contempt expressed for him?

By an Iraqi. Did you honestly think it was by one of his employees? Seriously?

No...I was making a little joke to lighten things up. I apologize if you got upset.

You actually think a US representative works for the president?

In many ways and capacities...yes. Those endorsements have strings attached and there appears to be a lot of dysfunction on the left over several issues.

One of the main ones is the rampant antisemitism of the progressive college age left that seems to be really cool with chasing around Jewish students, harassing Jewish people, and sending them death threats praising Hitler and the Holocaust.

If you stop to think about it....you might wonder why Antifa hasn't shown up to fight these liberal racist bigots who are doing much worse than carrying tiki torches and chanting "jews will not replace us"?

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

I mean...you claim to care about these things....so I figured I'd let you know where the problem is. I guess Antifa must be on vacation for the last year or so...you have the WH actually funding and arming nazis in the Ukraine, and not a peep from Antifa. You have student groups chasing jews around campus...not an Antifa black block larper in sight.

It's as if they were never fighting fascism or nazis or government collusion with fascists and nazis at all.

I'm beginning to see why you're so confused. Maybe you should take a time out, and go learn about who actually works for a U.S. president, and then try to contribute to the discussion.

The most work is clearly being done by his doctor. I don't know what they inject him with to get him through a press appearance but judging by the fact he's spoken to the press the least number of times of any president, and taken the most vacations, I'd guess it's something a bit risky for his health.

That's what Putin is saying, now that he's a wanted man.

Is he? Apparently a CIA assessment from December 2016 said Putin wanted Hillary to win...as she was considered more predictable, more manageable, from Putin's viewpoint.

CIA Manipulated Evidence To Hide Evidence Russia Wanted Clinton To Win In 2016, Not Trump: Report

The Central Intelligence Agency manipulated intelligence information to make it look like Russia wanted Donald Trump to win the 2016 presidential election despite having more credible information showing that Russia wanted Hillary Clinton to win, according to a new report. The effort to...

www.dailywire.com

That's not getting a lot of coverage though...because to anyone not paying close attention, it's a useful lie to tell everyone that Putin and Trump are in cahoots.

Pelosi: ‘What do the Russians have on President Trump?’ - Washington Examiner

House Minority leader Nancy Pelosi questioned why President Trump would authorize a narrow group of transactions between American companies and Russian spies, alleging the Kremlin must have incriminating information on the president. In a statement released Thursday, Pelosi claimed Trump had...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

Which is odd if you actually consider what Putin says....

Putin says Russia prefers Biden to Trump but criticizes current US policy

President Vladimir Putin said that Russia would prefer to see U.S. President Joe Biden win a second term, describing him as more experienced and predictable than Donald Trump.

apnews.com

So someone on the left, or in the media, or in the CIA is clearly lying....but I wouldn't rule out all of them either lol.

But most people would disagree with you and Putin.

Not sure what you're referring to here....I'm speaking about the 100,000 or so children Biden helped traffic into the US and then decided to not keep safe for "reasons".

Redirect Notice

www.google.com

I can't in good conscience vote for the rampant racism, antisemitism, misinformation spreading, and child trafficking of this administration but hey....you do you.

 

[The Barbarian]

A lot of the mess-ups seem to have been just by inattention. Trump's border fence fiasco, was mostly because no one was watching the contractors to see what they were doing.

I'm not certain what "fiasco" you're referring to here.

Smugglers cut through Trump border wall over 3,000 times​

Sections of former President Trump’s border wall between the U.S. and Mexico continue to cost the government millions in maintenance to fix sections breached by smugglers.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection records obtained by the Washington Post show that suspected smuggling gangs managed to hack through the heavy steel bollards making up the fence 3,272 times between 2019 and 2021.

The cost to repair the 30-foot-tall beams added up to $2.6 million over that period, the CBP records show.

A keystone of his campaign and a mantra at his rallies, Trump promised an impenetrable barrier along the border, but reports soon surfaced of smugglers using common construction equipment to saw through the bollards.

Smugglers cut through Trump border wall over 3,000 times, report says

Sections of former President Trump’s border wall between the U.S. and Mexico continue to cost the government millions in maintenance to fix sections breached by smugglers.

www.newsnationnow.com

Trump’s Big Border Wall Is Now a Pile of Rusting Steel​

Worth at least a quarter billion dollars, the steel bollards are a relic of the Trump era.
In the open air throughout the southwestern borderlands. The bollards—18- or 33-foot-long hollow posts, most of them reinforced with concrete and rebar—are worth at least a quarter of a billion dollars. The Department of Defense owns most of that steel, but it’s unclear what will—or can—be done with it. For now, it remains in spider-webbed stacks sunning themselves in vast staging areas along the wall.

President Joe Biden persistently campaigned on a clean break from the policies of the Trump administration. Perhaps in no other field did Trump’s critics hope for swifter and more complete reversals than in immigration and border policy. Those hopes have been dashed: Despite many promises, the Biden administration has effectively locked in, and in some cases even expanded, draconian anti-immigration measures implemented by Trump. The wall was supposed to be the easy change. But halting a project of this scale is never easy.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/12/steel-trump-border-wall-rusting-desert/621005/

A Single Scandal Sums Up All of Trump’s Failures​

The president has been intervening in the process of producing a border wall, on behalf of a favored firm.
Many of the tales of controversy to emerge from the Trump administration have been abstract, or complicated, or murky. Whenever anyone warns about destruction of “norms,” the conversation quickly becomes speculative—the harms are theoretical, vague, and in the future.

This makes new Washington Post reporting about President Donald Trump’s border wall especially valuable. The Post writes about how Trump has repeatedly pressured the Army Corps of Engineers and the Department of Homeland Security to award a contract for building a wall at the southern U.S. border to a North Dakota company headed by a leading Republican donor.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/trump-border-wall-contractor/590242/

 

[The Barbarian]

I know Trump managed to get a considerable amount of infrastructure built...

See above. The border patrol makes jokes about the number of holes in the "impenetrable wall."

Given that Biden was negotiating with McCarthy by himself, and clearly snockered the republicans in that negotiation (even they admitted it), seems like your belief doesn't correspond very well to the reality.

What negotiation are you referring to?

Joe Biden Was Underestimated Once Again on the Debt Ceiling Deal​

The president appears to have bested the GOP with a bill that could very soon save the economy—and his reelection chances
“Republicans got outsmarted by a President who can’t find his pants,” Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.) tweeted on Tuesday, making clear she opposed the compromise legislation that came out of Biden and McCarthy’s negotiations.

Joe Biden Was Underestimated Once Again on the Debt Ceiling Deal

The president appears to have bested the GOP with a bill that could very soon save the economy—and his reelection chances

www.vanityfair.com

Republicans can't seem to decide whether Biden is a senile old guy who is easy to handle, or Dark Brandon, the evil genius. Sometimes, when they are really frantic, they will make both claims in the same sentence, as Nancy M. did. Poor dear.

What part of disobeying a presidential order over an issue the president holds authority in is considered "defending the Constitution"?
I haven't checked in awhile but I'm fairly certain NAFTA isn't in any amendments.

Stopping an unconstitutional move by the president. Presidents can't unilaterally abrogate treaties ratified by Congress.

(pretended one of Bush's WH employees threw a shoe at him)
By an Iraqi. Did you honestly think it was by one of his employees? Seriously?

No...I was making a little joke to lighten things up.

Oh, of course you were... I'm sorry if correcting you made you angry.

(claims a U.S. member of the House works for Biden)
You actually think a US representative works for the president?

In many ways and capacities...yes.

Not at all, not in any way. Don't they train you guys before you go to work? C'mon. Read up on "separation of powers."

Just quote Tillerson in 2016-2020. I looked and don't know what you're referring to.

If I was precise in what Tillerson actually said to describe Trump, I'd be banned here.

One of the main ones is the rampant antisemitism of the progressive college age left that seems to be really cool with chasing around Jewish students, harassing Jewish people, and sending them death threats praising Hitler and the Holocaust.

As you seem to realize, the far right has spread their hatred to some universities.

Uncensored America (UA), a student organization sanctioned at three university campuses, plans to host Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes at Penn State University and far-right social media performer John Doyle at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, in coming weeks.

While UA claims to be a “non-partisan” group, it has previously hosted other right-wing extremist speakers including Milo Yiannopoulos, and its founder is linked through another far-right campus group to a white nationalist publisher that sells pro-Nazi literature.

Far-right Student Organization Brings Extremists McInnes, Doyle to Penn State and Tennessee

Uncensored America (UA), a student organization sanctioned at three university campuses, plans to host Proud Boys founder Gavin McInnes at Penn State University and far-right social media performer John Doyle at the University of Tennessee, Knoxville, in coming weeks.

www.splcenter.org

And it's not just pro-Trump groups now:

The rise in Jew-hatred in the U.S. is not limited to white supremacists. It said that “the antisemitism of the far-right and far-left are pushing into the mainstream of American culture and politics from both sides.”

Antisemitic incidents on rise across the U.S., report finds

Researchers say that antisemitism rose in the U.S. in 2022 and shows little sign of abating worldwide as political radicals have gained mainstream popularity.

www.pbs.org

Some Islamic fundamentalist groups have made common cause with white supremacists. They don't have much in common except hatred, but that's enough for them.

And of course, dictators, particularly ones under pressure, find Jews a useful target for hatred:

Putin Is Worried, So He Turned to Anti-Semitism​

His recent rhetoric targeting Jews suggests that his grip on power may be loosening.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/putin-russia-anti-semitism-stalin/675424/

I mean...you claim to care about these things....so I figured I'd let you know where the problem is. Closer to home than you'd like us to know.

Which is odd if you actually consider what Putin says....

Because his intelligence people have told him that openly supporting Trump is a bad idea. Mueller found that Putin's tactic was covertly supporting Trump. Seems like that hasn't changed. Last election, his trolls just worked as Trump's echo chamber:

Russian trolls are relying on Trump quotes and tweets for disinformation campaigns, saving them from making up the content themselves like they did in the 2016 elections​

Russian trolls are relying on Trump quotes and tweets for disinformation campaigns, saving them from making up the content themselves like they did in the 2016 elections

Former FBI agent Clint Watts told The New York Times Russian operatives "must be flabbergasted" at how easy Trump was making their job.

www.businessinsider.com

So someone on the left, or in the media, or in the CIA is clearly lying....but I wouldn't rule out all of them either lol.

Or maybe Putin is doing one thing and saying another. One of those. C'mon. You're not helping him much here. Maybe you could just make up some fairy tale about the evil Dark Brandon, and pretend it's reality.

I'm speaking about the 100,000 or so children Biden helped traffic into the US and then decided to not keep safe for "reasons".

Yeah, like that. Who knows? Maybe someone would be dumb enough to believe it.

I can't in good conscience vote for the rampant racism, antisemitism, misinformation spreading,

You wouldn't be the first to ignore a conscience for whatever the payoff is for doing so. Here's a hint: denial doesn't work so well, if your behavior doesn't fit the denial.

 

[Ana the Ist]

A lot of the mess-ups seem to have been just by inattention.

Mess-ups?

Again I don't exactly know what you're referring to here.

I'll take a stab at it and guess you mean this...

Building a Border Barrier: the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers’ Contracting Efforts

After the President declared a national emergency at the border in 2019, billions of dollars were made available for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers (Corps) to build border barriers. For example, the Corps awarded more than $10 billion in contracts to build the southern border wall between FYs...

www.gao.gov

Now...it's possible that the Army Corps of Engineers overseeing these contractors screwed up. That might explain why guys like Milley were so quick to blame Trump to cover their own failures. As the highest ranking member of the Army, he's responsible for screwing it up. If however, you see Trump as ultimately responsible for these things...then I'd agree 5-10 billion dollars in less than optimal border infrastructure isn't great.

However, if we're comparing presidents...

More Fraud Has Been Found in Federal COVID Funding—How Much Was Lost Under Unemployment Insurance Programs

Criminal charges against individuals in alleged COVID-19 funding fraud are growing. Last month, the Department of Justice announced over 700 new enforcement actions—including criminal charges—against 371 defendants for more than $836 million in alleged fraud. While many COVID-19 relief programs...

www.gao.gov

Biden's failure in distribution of covid relief funds resulted in at least 100-130 billion in fraud. A lot of those taxpayer dollars went to China....whom Biden is accused of receiving illegal funds from. Then of course, you have the billions in student loan fraud that has been shifted to the taxpayer under Biden...but no legislation to fix that problem has even been proposed (if the educations aren't worth the money paid for them, then either the lenders or universities are committing fraud, something only Trump university seems to be held accountable for). You also have a high likelihood of asylum fraud...with the Laken Riley murder as an example of the cost of that particular fraud (the murderer's wife admitted to marrying him before crossing the border, despite having met him just before illegally crossing, solely for the purpose of taking advantage of the asylum system). Given the numbers of rejected asylum cases being many times greater than the number of illegals deported...Biden clearly isn't concerned with asylum fraud.

Trump's border fence fiasco, was mostly because no one was watching the contractors to see what they were doing.

Smugglers cut through Trump border wall over 3,000 times​

Sections of former President Trump’s border wall between the U.S. and Mexico continue to cost the government millions in maintenance to fix sections breached by smugglers.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection records obtained by the Washington Post show that suspected smuggling gangs managed to hack through the heavy steel bollards making up the fence 3,272 times between 2019 and 2021.

The cost to repair the 30-foot-tall beams added up to $2.6 million over that period, the CBP records show.

A keystone of his campaign and a mantra at his rallies, Trump promised an impenetrable barrier along the border, but reports soon surfaced of smugglers using common construction equipment to saw through the bollards.

Smugglers cut through Trump border wall over 3,000 times, report says

Sections of former President Trump’s border wall between the U.S. and Mexico continue to cost the government millions in maintenance to fix sections breached by smugglers.

www.newsnationnow.com

I don't recall Trump saying that the wall would be an impenetrable barrier, but hey...if he did and you believed him, I can understand why you might be upset. Did those people cutting through the wall and entering illegallu get arrested or not? Because if they did...then the border wall still has a degree of usefulness in apprehending illegals by slowing down their ability to enter and giving agents time to respond.

Trump’s Big Border Wall Is Now a Pile of Rusting Steel​

Worth at least a quarter billion dollars, the steel bollards are a relic of the Trump era.
In the open air throughout the southwestern borderlands. The bollards—18- or 33-foot-long hollow posts, most of them reinforced with concrete and rebar—are worth at least a quarter of a billion dollars.

Wow...a quarter of a billion dollars. That's a lot, don't you agree?

A Single Scandal Sums Up All of Trump’s Failures​

The president has been intervening in the process of producing a border wall, on behalf of a favored firm.
Many of the tales of controversy to emerge from the Trump administration have been abstract, or complicated, or murky. Whenever anyone warns about destruction of “norms,” the conversation quickly becomes speculative—the harms are theoretical, vague, and in the future.

This makes new Washington Post reporting about President Donald Trump’s border wall especially valuable. The Post writes about how Trump has repeatedly pressured the Army Corps of Engineers and the Department of Homeland Security to award a contract for building a wall at the southern U.S. border to a North Dakota company headed by a leading Republican donor.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/05/trump-border-wall-contractor/590242/

He pressured them did he? What sort of wall did Milley prefer? I would be concerned about the Republican donor if he was the only Republican donor and all his competitors were Democrat donors...or if this donor didn't also donate to Democrats. This really only matters though, if Trump ultimately got his way and the Army Corps of Engineers preferred something else...

As I understand it, the Army Corps preferred the wall made of individual posts to allow a degree of visibility into Mexico....which is what was ultimately chosen. Trump wanted a high and imposing wall that prevented visibility on both sides.

Regardless, easily 10-15 times the amount that was....less than perfectly spent under Trump regarding the wall fiasco....was lost to outright fraud in just covid relief funds under Biden. We also know the Ukraine is defrauding us currently...by at least 40 million...and Biden seems more than willing to continue to allow this, judging by his demands for funding the Ukraine.

I'll agree government waste is bad. If you were actually expecting a perfectly impenetrable wall however....consider that was just hyperbole that went over your head. Still, there may have been some genuine fraud there because of Trump...or because Milley ignored Trump’s preferences and went with his own, it's not clear.

What is clear is that Biden got nothing for his 100+ billion dollars in fraud...and by nothing, I'm assuming he isn't guilty of accepting money from foreign interests that defrauded the US as has been suggested. Unfortunately, we cannot know for certain unless someone in the FBI or IRS is allowed to investigate the situation. All we can say for certain is Biden is responsible for much much more waste.

 

[Valletta]

Actually, the border patrol is stretched to the limit, as are the deportation court hearings. Biden asked Congress for more money to beef up enforcement and removal of those who don't belong here. It almost passed until Donald Trump told his followers to vote it down. Trump wants open borders because he's running out of issues to scare the faithful.

Joe wants money to PROCESS more migrants into the country, he has killed the bill that would specifically add "more money to beef up enforcement and removal of those who don't belong here." Don't fall for a hoax.

 

[ralliann]

Joe wants money to PROCESS more migrants into the country, he has killed the bill that would specifically add "more money to beef up enforcement and removal of those who don't belong here." Don't fall for a hoax.

Yep, he wanted more paper pushers, to get them in here with papers. A really dumb move if only an extremely small number qualify, what a waste of money to massively process false claims? Employing many people knowing their job was not necessary if they remained in Mexico while waiting. That is what lowers asylum seekers. It just does not get them in here, so they don't bother.

 

[rturner76]

As a slight sidebar...do people bring in their own staffers or would the white house generally have mostly their own people? I'd assume mostly the latter

Thoughts on this?

The first that comes to mind is if they use the White House office doctor, they might need to keep some kind of records. You know like who is being prescribed to? How much has been prescribed and on what days? Do you have a primary doctor? Pay for it and get the write-off, then anything that happens is Dr/patient privilege. He could even make the medical team or doctor sign a non-disclosure agreement so all of the records are kept private.

Strictly legal? I don't know. I know a doctor has some liberty to hand out samples with no prescription. Otherwise, doctors need to keep a record of every script they wrote and how much was prescribed. There may be a liability there.

Emphasis: Not a lawyer.