You know Pompeii?

[theophilus777]

Bottom line, said volcano was and still is very active. No divine activity required. It's just the way nature swings.

.

Not sure why you want to separate creation from Creator like that.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Not sure why you want to separate creation from Creator like that.

So every time a volcano erupts, it's because God is angry at somebody? Why can't it simply erupt because that's what volcanoes do?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[theophilus777]

So every time a volcano erupts, it's because God is angry at somebody?

You really can't see the strawman there?

 

[gord44]

My guess is because creation is flawed. It's not perfect so this kinda stuff happens. It's the Black Iron Prison. It's not supposed to be nice and cozy all the time.

 

[Eudaimonist]

You really can't see the strawman there?

No.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[theophilus777]

No.


eudaimonia,

Mark

ONE religion, claims ONE volcano eruption was ONE Divine Judgment. You turn that into EVERY volcano eruption is Divine Judgment.

Is that really the argument that was stated, or did you change it?

 

[Eudaimonist]

ONE religion, claims ONE volcano eruption was ONE Divine Judgment. You turn that into EVERY volcano eruption is Divine Judgment.

Yes, so? You made a general statement about "separating creation from Creator". How is the concept "creation" not turning a specific volcano into something general?

dlamberth as well was making a general statement about "the way nature swings". It could apply to any active volcano, or any natural phenomenon at all.

I don't see how I am changing anything.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[dlamberth]

Do you know what I find so interesting in this thread? Both Christians and Muslims have actually have found a place to come together in unity. Normally I'd like that progress. But do you know what that place of unity is? It's over the image of a judgmental, vindictive God who is ready to rain down destruction upon His human creation.

.

 

[dlamberth]

Not sure why you want to separate creation from Creator like that.

I'm not separating Creation from the Creator at all. All of this Creation is Divine. I just know that the nature of nature is that active volcanoes erupt with absolutely zero Divine judgmental intent or vengefulness involved at all.

.

 

[dlamberth]

ONE religion, claims ONE volcano eruption was ONE Divine Judgment. You turn that into EVERY volcano eruption is Divine Judgment.

Is that really the argument that was stated, or did you change it?

Personally, I think that's where it leads. If you accept that one volcano is a Vengeful Judgment from God, than every other volcano eruption has to be as well. And you can't stop there, super storms like Sandy and Katrina and Earthquakes become Divine Vengeful Judgments as well as tsunami's. The tsunami in Indonesia killed 230,000 people. For that many human beings to die, that must have been a very sinful country, way more than Pompeii.

.

 

[awitch]

Personally, I think that's where it leads. If you accept that one volcano is a Vengeful Judgment from God, than every other volcano eruption has to be as well. And you can't stop there, super storms like Sandy and Katrina and Earthquakes become Divine Vengeful Judgments as well tsunami's. The tsunami in Indonesia killed 230,000 people. For that many human beings to die, that must have been a very sinful country, way more than Pompeii.

.

On a side note, it's oddly amusing in a way, when the survivors of such catastrophes claim it was a miracle. (Never mind the hundreds of lives lost and millions of dollars in damage)

 

[theophilus777]

Yes, so? You made a general statement about "separating creation from Creator". How is the concept "creation" not turning a specific volcano into something general?

dlamberth as well was making a general statement about "the way nature swings". It could apply to any active volcano, or any natural phenomenon at all.

I don't see how I am changing anything.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Because nobody but you has said what you said. therefore you created a strawman. That you can easily knock it down doesn't mean anything other than you created a strawman.

Do you know what I find so interesting in this thread? Both Christians and Muslims have actually have found a place to come together in unity.

I don't think you're referring to any Christian but me, and I point out you're confused. Since that confusion may be my fault allow me to clarify: I have not said Pompeii was Divine Judgment. I have pointed out that everyone beating up the OP is wrong in what they have said, how, and why. In brief, she related what Islam teaches on this particular incident. That is all.

 

[theophilus777]

I'm not separating Creation from the Creator at all. All of this Creation is Divine. I just know that the nature of nature is that active volcanoes erupt with absolutely zero Divine judgmental intent or vengefulness involved at all.

.

And I agree with you. I also point out you remove any element of wrath or Judgment from the Divine, just like you remove any potential of evil from our world, apparently. Which makes me think you have never been to NYC

 

[theophilus777]

Personally, I think that's where it leads. If you accept that one volcano is a Vengeful Judgment from God, than every other volcano eruption has to be as well.

Nope. This is a strawman. Maybe your mind works that way, but mine does not. And there is no evidence that the OP says or thinks anything like this either.

And you can't stop there, super storms like Sandy and Katrina and Earthquakes become Divine Vengeful Judgments as well as tsunami's. The tsunami in Indonesia killed 230,000 people. For that many human beings to die, that must have been a very sinful country, way more than Pompeii.

.

I can stop anywhere I please, and I will ask you to stop from what appears to be bearing false witness.

 

[danny ski]

So, what's the lesson here? Don't build near volcano, on flood plains, in earthquake zones, or near oceans. Build on the Canadian Shield and make sure you got enough fire wood.

 

[theophilus777]

So, what's the lesson here? Don't build near volcano, on flood plains, in earthquake zones, or near oceans. Build on the Canadian Shield and make sure you got enough fire wood.

And don't forget tornadoes!

 

[dcalling]

This thread was started by a Muslim, informing us of what Islam teaches on the subject. I think she pointed to the Koran on the topic, which would be her Scriptures.



Obviously. I don't think anyone would blame the dead if they are trying to credit God for a specific calamity. And clearly, we had better be very sure God wants to take credit for such a thing before we go pronouncing it.

I have read Quran as well (not fully), and I doubt even Muhammad blames people of Pompeii (or blames all nature disasters on God). She is doing that on her own assumptions.

 

[theophilus777]

I have read Quran as well (not fully), and I doubt even Muhammad blames people of Pompeii (or blames all nature disasters on God). She is doing that on her own assumptions.

Really? The OP has stated she is merely sharing what Islam teaches. I think for her to lie about that would be a rather big deal to her, personally. Much more important than any issue about Mt Vesuvius.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Because nobody but you has said what you said. therefore you created a strawman. That you can easily knock it down doesn't mean anything other than you created a strawman.

I've already explained how you and he had made general statements. He seems to agree with me on that, at least as far as his statement is concerned. In a spirit of charitableness, you should be able to forgive me for taking your statement to be general when his clearly had that sort of intent.

I don't think that responding to a general statement makes your response easier to knock down. In either case, if a general statement wasn't what was in your mind, then my "strawman" was unintentional. Carry on.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[theophilus777]

I've already explained how you and he had made general statements. He seems to agree with me on that, at least as far as his statement is concerned. In a spirit of charitableness, you should be able to forgive me for taking your statement to be general when his clearly had that sort of intent.

No problem. I somehow miss someone else making a similar but more general statement.

Really, all I was intending to do in this thread was to counter-balance the piling on effect I saw, against the OP. That seems to have ceased.